I said "data idiocy" with regard to the manner in which the data are presented, and did not call Gartner "idiots."
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory). And source of my data? Only Apple provides the data to calculate shipment share, so how the heck would I (or you or Gartner) know? Why don't you Fandroids tell us how a methodology that conflates actuals (Apple) with estimates (all others) makes any sense whatsoever?
(Perhaps I should just chalk it up to your lack of ability to read and process basic information).
I think this has been discussed ad nauseam as well. Channel inventory doesn't just disappear into the ether. If Samsung continues to have growing market share quarter after quarter, those devices are getting sold. Else there would be no more new sales unless the old inventory was consumed. If anything, the trend in the last few years has been rather drastic for Apple. The quarter with the new devices (iPhone specifically in fact) has a great sales and every successive quarter after that slumps down.
I think this has been discussed ad nauseam as well. Channel inventory doesn't just disappear into the ether. If Samsung continues to have growing market share quarter after quarter, those devices are getting sold. Else there would be no more new sales unless the old inventory was consumed. If anything, the trend in the last few years has been rather drastic for Apple. The quarter with the new devices (iPhone specifically in fact) has a great sales and every successive quarter after that slumps down.
Sammy makes 500 zillion different models. They could discontinue some and release different models. The raw numbers may increase but I want to see a model by model comparison.
Apple iDevices has increased YOY. You can't compare qtr to qtr as electronics are seasonal.
And the niche market is worth more than all others combined. It isn't market share driving profits. It is specialty. Think Neiman Marcus, Daimler-Benz, Chanel, LHMV and a few others. When executed well, operating in niche markets is very successful. There is not always a reason to be the largest, especially if you prevent any product line dependencies (I am not saying production lines) with other companies.
Meh, a software ecosystem stay relevant along with its market share, good luck having most developers putting dev money into native apps once the iOS market share pass under the two digits figure.
Meh, a software ecosystem stay relevant along with its market share, good luck having most developers putting dev money into native apps once the iOS market share pass under the two digits figure.
Where did Gartner get 38.3 million iPhones shipped? Didn't Apple report 37.4 million sales?
Gartner's numbers are their estimated "sell through" numbers --- i.e. they adjust Apple's, RIM's, Samsung's official numbers with changes in channel inventory levels).
The 37.4 million shipment numbers came from Apple's SEC filings. But in the earnings conference calls, Wall Street analysts always asked Apple executives (and RIM executives...) about changes in channel inventory levels. Apple will either say something specific (i.e. channel inventory went down by 500K vs the previous quarter) or something vague (i.e. channel inventory went up from 6 weeks to 8 weeks from the previous quarter). Then Gartner adjust the shipment numbers with changes in channel inventory levels.
Quoting AI other article : "[Google] also revealed at I/O that the company has paid out as much to developers so far in 2013 as it did in the entire year 2012."
Quoting AI other article : "[Google] also revealed at I/O that the company has paid out as much to developers so far in 2013 as it did in the entire year 2012."
That's the assumption the Apple pay rate remains flat and google will have this growth. It's easier to obtain growth when the payments are relatively low. Did Google announce how much $$$ was distributed?
The LTE iPad mini provides plenty of that screen size you want.
<*Sigh*> Yes, until you want to make a PHONE CALL.
To which you respond, "iPhone for calls, iPad for everything else." because apparently it makes more sense to lug around TWO devices than carry a larger phone.
iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
Then why don't you just stop whining and switch, and spare us your wisdom.
I want a bigger phone. "So switch" people say.
I want the ability to defeat irritating software like Game Center. "If you don't like it, switch" I'm told.
I switch both Bluetooth and WiFi on and off frequently so I think it would be handy to create shortcuts to those functions. "iPhone is the wrong device for you, then." they say. "Shut up and buy a Scamscum!"
I don't wanna. I like iOS. I like the security. I like the interoperability.
So, tell me, what's wrong with that? Why can I not both appreciate what Apple offers AND wish for things they presently don't? Why are people so dogdamn defensive of Apple that any suggestion that they don't absolutely overwhelming rule every aspect of technokool is an affront to be met with banishment? Is it really so hard to imagine that a good idea sometimes originates from a source other than Apple? Why is it considered treasonous to hope Apple will adopt widely requested features?
First, whenever someone opens with "longtime Apple supporter here" I know they're about to disparage Apple history/strategy pretty thoroughly.
Yeah, that WOULD follow. They wouldn't bother saying so unless it was to provide some context to their complaint. You don't hear people saying "Y'know, I've been a Bears fan for years, had season tickets since I was 4, but I sure like that new coach."
The conspiracy theories ("concern troll" my ass --- such utter nonsense) are paranoid delusions brought on by defensive attitudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
[...] their product mix, although appearing "limited" to some, actually satisfies any real needs people have in computing/telephony, etc...
See, with due respect and no insult intended, to me that comes across as condescending and/or arrogant. "Yes, yes, we know, you think you want this and that, but we know better. What you really need is this." If a car dealer said that you'd tell him to screw himself sideways and walk out.
I haven't switched back to Windows because I prefer OS X enough to keep me buying Apple's hardware, but there are days when I really, really want to tell Apple to screw itself sideways and walk out.
And you're dead wrong about "more and more" wanting to switch to bigger screens. For all the phablet noise, it turns out that the larger screen phones
aren't selling nearly as well as they hype will lead you to believe. Recent reports show they still occupy only a tiny niche in the low single digits...
I'm not arguing either for or against the desirability of larger-screen phones, but I *AM* calling bullshit on that supposed "report" that pegged the share of big phones at only 9-10%.
You read the thread, you saw the chart, so either you're suffering defective recall or being disingenuous.
The categories overlapped, so a 4.7" phone could be classified as either "Normal" or "Large" with no way to know how many were assigned to each category. The entire story was completely meaningless.
Did you consider the fact that those might be people's actual opinions? Unlike the political news circuit, this forum is an inconsequential corner of the internet where opinions get the attention of tens of users and affect nothing in the broader world. This is a forum. One of likely millions on the web. People aren't here to promote interests outside their own. There is no grand conspiracy against Apple.
Here's my inconsequential, non-promotional opinion of iOS - it's stale. It's exceedingly well made and popular. But it's stale. I think a lot of diehard Apple users are even a little bored with it. Not all of them are, obviously, but enough that Apple could lose a bit of market share as people try new things.
Yes, sure. The same tired, PR-fed memes, trotted out ad nauseum like they're being read from a list of talking points are just "actual opinions"...
OK… Define "stale", and also explain why an OS has to be "exciting". My iPhone does EXACTLY what I NEED it to do *flawlessly*, and due to both Apple AND 3rd party developers it ALSO does amazing unexpected things that I sometimes don't need it to do, but it does those things *flawlessly* as well, AND I'm still using the same handset I purchased FOUR YEARS AGO without missing a beat (other than Siri and a camera for Facetime, which I CAN have with this OS if/when I upgrade my handset).
If I want something new and exciting on my 'tired, stale' iPhone 3GS, I hit the app store and find the latest gizmo-app to entertain or wow me… I can control my house lighting with my phone as I approach home. I can plug my phone into my car for music, navigation, and hands-free (voice activated) calling. The list of those things is as amazing, anything-but-stale, and endless as the apps I can find for them.
I don't know what you could possibly be missing in the "staleness" of iOS…? How does a completely invented/manufactured "problem" become "opinion"?
As for me, I say screw "exciting" and "fresh". I buy into all these other more relevant (to a mobile OS) things. Reliability, extensibility, interactivity, and quality/cost of ownership. I've had my current handset in perfect working order (hardware and in this case just as importantly software, both apps AND the OS) for about four years. I'm getting ready to upgrade though, and will wait for the next update round to see what Apple offers.
But believe me that i'm an apple investor an therefore I observe very carefully the market in Europe. Also there are analysts covering the european market an it's not looking good for apple. I'm not sure if the S4 is what you qualify a low-end Phone but thats were the most are heading :-(. The sales are very promising for Samsung :-( in Europe right now.
I reduced my apple stock 1/3 but i'm still heavily invested. I have stop-loss orders to protect my money and some stocks were sold today at 449,50.
Best regards
I wouldn't be oversensitive to what you observe in people walking down the street. Sales totals don't tell the whole story. Samsung stuffs the market with cheap, barely functional "smart phones" and gains 'market share' in the space. It looks like they're 'winning'. Apple has secure, high-margin, high-demand products that once owned have a loyalty base that is unrivaled.
I bought an Audi A6 back in '07. Before I bought it, but as I started considering it, suddenly the world around me was full of them. I had never noticed so many Audi A6s on the road before. They were EVERYWHERE! It was most pronounced for the few weeks after I took ownership of one.
Now, had you asked me then, "how is Audi doing against BMW and Benz?" it would have been easy to imagine that they were head and shoulders above the competition. Honestly, friend, your neighborhood is not "all of Europe", and the "PR-driven" paid articles flowing freely around the "tech reporting space" aren't where you should form your sense of stock value, and CERTAINLY NOT from your 'perception' of your unscientific observations...
Get back to fundamentals. Drill into the financials, look at deeper trends. The hammering the stock has taken in the past year was a 'whisper campaign' driven overcorrection. Assuming Apple continues on course, this time next year you'll be awfully glad you held on to that stock…
I agree. Apple had a huge lead in every aspect and did a great job exploiting it, but when the lead started shrinking they failed to adjust their strategy until they didnt have a choice. Even moving from a 3.5" screen to a 4" screen was like pulling teeth. Here we are in mid 2013 and a bigger screen and lower end phone are just conjecture. I will be curious to see what they come out with in the fall, but one has to wonder what could have been.
What? You talk about all this as if it's all ancient history, and we're recounting how Apple crashed and burned 'back in the day'… in a tone resembling a recounting of history and their fatal mistakes...
The last I heard, Apple closed yet another quarter in RECORD SALES territory. Margins were off, but to be expected considering the broader market.
When someone creates a new market space, they briefly enjoy "huge leads" until the rest of the market joins in. THis "decline" is nothing outside of expectation. That Apple has retained well over 50% of the "tablet" space for over two years says more about the strength of their strategy, not a reveal of any inherent weakness.
Based on all the analyses and studies I've seen, the larger-screen phones are doing only marginally well. Incrementally increasing to 4" may have been in their product planning pipeline for a very long time (these things don't pop out of the engineering workshops overnight you know). And besides pointing out that small change, where else have they "failed to adjust their strategy"? You highlighted nothing.
For all you know (and I suspect this is more true) what we're seeing is EXACTLY their long-term strategy playing out exactly as planned…
It could explain why Apple remains at the top of the profits/sales/mindshare heap. ALl things considered, they are managing competition quite handily, in my view… seriously, it's Apple on one side, and the ENTIRE rest of the tech world on the other competing with them.
And you think they have somehow "failed"? Laughable...
Comments
Hey, watch it with your nonsense.
I said "data idiocy" with regard to the manner in which the data are presented, and did not call Gartner "idiots."
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory). And source of my data? Only Apple provides the data to calculate shipment share, so how the heck would I (or you or Gartner) know? Why don't you Fandroids tell us how a methodology that conflates actuals (Apple) with estimates (all others) makes any sense whatsoever?
(Perhaps I should just chalk it up to your lack of ability to read and process basic information).
I think this has been discussed ad nauseam as well. Channel inventory doesn't just disappear into the ether. If Samsung continues to have growing market share quarter after quarter, those devices are getting sold. Else there would be no more new sales unless the old inventory was consumed. If anything, the trend in the last few years has been rather drastic for Apple. The quarter with the new devices (iPhone specifically in fact) has a great sales and every successive quarter after that slumps down.Sammy makes 500 zillion different models. They could discontinue some and release different models. The raw numbers may increase but I want to see a model by model comparison.
Apple iDevices has increased YOY. You can't compare qtr to qtr as electronics are seasonal.
Devs are making more money on iOS than Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Where did Gartner get 38.3 million iPhones shipped? Didn't Apple report 37.4 million sales?
Gartner's numbers are their estimated "sell through" numbers --- i.e. they adjust Apple's, RIM's, Samsung's official numbers with changes in channel inventory levels).
The 37.4 million shipment numbers came from Apple's SEC filings. But in the earnings conference calls, Wall Street analysts always asked Apple executives (and RIM executives...) about changes in channel inventory levels. Apple will either say something specific (i.e. channel inventory went down by 500K vs the previous quarter) or something vague (i.e. channel inventory went up from 6 weeks to 8 weeks from the previous quarter). Then Gartner adjust the shipment numbers with changes in channel inventory levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Devs are making more money on iOS than Android.
This will never change ?
deleted
So it is obviously set to change in the mid-term.
edit, link: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/15/google-announces-900-million-android-activations-48-billion-app-installs
That's the assumption the Apple pay rate remains flat and google will have this growth. It's easier to obtain growth when the payments are relatively low. Did Google announce how much $$$ was distributed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138
The LTE iPad mini provides plenty of that screen size you want.
<*Sigh*> Yes, until you want to make a PHONE CALL.
To which you respond, "iPhone for calls, iPad for everything else." because apparently it makes more sense to lug around TWO devices than carry a larger phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
Then why don't you just stop whining and switch, and spare us your wisdom.
I want a bigger phone. "So switch" people say.
I want the ability to defeat irritating software like Game Center. "If you don't like it, switch" I'm told.
I switch both Bluetooth and WiFi on and off frequently so I think it would be handy to create shortcuts to those functions. "iPhone is the wrong device for you, then." they say. "Shut up and buy a Scamscum!"
I don't wanna. I like iOS. I like the security. I like the interoperability.
So, tell me, what's wrong with that? Why can I not both appreciate what Apple offers AND wish for things they presently don't? Why are people so dogdamn defensive of Apple that any suggestion that they don't absolutely overwhelming rule every aspect of technokool is an affront to be met with banishment? Is it really so hard to imagine that a good idea sometimes originates from a source other than Apple? Why is it considered treasonous to hope Apple will adopt widely requested features?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
First, whenever someone opens with "longtime Apple supporter here" I know they're about to disparage Apple history/strategy pretty thoroughly.
Yeah, that WOULD follow. They wouldn't bother saying so unless it was to provide some context to their complaint. You don't hear people saying "Y'know, I've been a Bears fan for years, had season tickets since I was 4, but I sure like that new coach."
The conspiracy theories ("concern troll" my ass --- such utter nonsense) are paranoid delusions brought on by defensive attitudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
[...] their product mix, although appearing "limited" to some, actually satisfies any real needs people have in computing/telephony, etc...
See, with due respect and no insult intended, to me that comes across as condescending and/or arrogant. "Yes, yes, we know, you think you want this and that, but we know better. What you really need is this." If a car dealer said that you'd tell him to screw himself sideways and walk out.
I haven't switched back to Windows because I prefer OS X enough to keep me buying Apple's hardware, but there are days when I really, really want to tell Apple to screw itself sideways and walk out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
And you're dead wrong about "more and more" wanting to switch to bigger screens. For all the phablet noise, it turns out that the larger screen phones
aren't selling nearly as well as they hype will lead you to believe. Recent reports show they still occupy only a tiny niche in the low single digits...
I'm not arguing either for or against the desirability of larger-screen phones, but I *AM* calling bullshit on that supposed "report" that pegged the share of big phones at only 9-10%.
You read the thread, you saw the chart, so either you're suffering defective recall or being disingenuous.
The categories overlapped, so a 4.7" phone could be classified as either "Normal" or "Large" with no way to know how many were assigned to each category. The entire story was completely meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance
Did you consider the fact that those might be people's actual opinions? Unlike the political news circuit, this forum is an inconsequential corner of the internet where opinions get the attention of tens of users and affect nothing in the broader world. This is a forum. One of likely millions on the web. People aren't here to promote interests outside their own. There is no grand conspiracy against Apple.
Here's my inconsequential, non-promotional opinion of iOS - it's stale. It's exceedingly well made and popular. But it's stale. I think a lot of diehard Apple users are even a little bored with it. Not all of them are, obviously, but enough that Apple could lose a bit of market share as people try new things.
Yes, sure. The same tired, PR-fed memes, trotted out ad nauseum like they're being read from a list of talking points are just "actual opinions"...
OK… Define "stale", and also explain why an OS has to be "exciting". My iPhone does EXACTLY what I NEED it to do *flawlessly*, and due to both Apple AND 3rd party developers it ALSO does amazing unexpected things that I sometimes don't need it to do, but it does those things *flawlessly* as well, AND I'm still using the same handset I purchased FOUR YEARS AGO without missing a beat (other than Siri and a camera for Facetime, which I CAN have with this OS if/when I upgrade my handset).
If I want something new and exciting on my 'tired, stale' iPhone 3GS, I hit the app store and find the latest gizmo-app to entertain or wow me… I can control my house lighting with my phone as I approach home. I can plug my phone into my car for music, navigation, and hands-free (voice activated) calling. The list of those things is as amazing, anything-but-stale, and endless as the apps I can find for them.
I don't know what you could possibly be missing in the "staleness" of iOS…? How does a completely invented/manufactured "problem" become "opinion"?
As for me, I say screw "exciting" and "fresh". I buy into all these other more relevant (to a mobile OS) things. Reliability, extensibility, interactivity, and quality/cost of ownership. I've had my current handset in perfect working order (hardware and in this case just as importantly software, both apps AND the OS) for about four years. I'm getting ready to upgrade though, and will wait for the next update round to see what Apple offers.
I have seriously NOTHING to be unhappy about.
Again, define "stale" please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer
Yeah you're right its a little selective :-)
But believe me that i'm an apple investor an therefore I observe very carefully the market in Europe. Also there are analysts covering the european market an it's not looking good for apple. I'm not sure if the S4 is what you qualify a low-end Phone but thats were the most are heading :-(. The sales are very promising for Samsung :-( in Europe right now.
I reduced my apple stock 1/3 but i'm still heavily invested. I have stop-loss orders to protect my money and some stocks were sold today at 449,50.
Best regards
I wouldn't be oversensitive to what you observe in people walking down the street. Sales totals don't tell the whole story. Samsung stuffs the market with cheap, barely functional "smart phones" and gains 'market share' in the space. It looks like they're 'winning'. Apple has secure, high-margin, high-demand products that once owned have a loyalty base that is unrivaled.
I bought an Audi A6 back in '07. Before I bought it, but as I started considering it, suddenly the world around me was full of them. I had never noticed so many Audi A6s on the road before. They were EVERYWHERE! It was most pronounced for the few weeks after I took ownership of one.
Now, had you asked me then, "how is Audi doing against BMW and Benz?" it would have been easy to imagine that they were head and shoulders above the competition. Honestly, friend, your neighborhood is not "all of Europe", and the "PR-driven" paid articles flowing freely around the "tech reporting space" aren't where you should form your sense of stock value, and CERTAINLY NOT from your 'perception' of your unscientific observations...
Get back to fundamentals. Drill into the financials, look at deeper trends. The hammering the stock has taken in the past year was a 'whisper campaign' driven overcorrection. Assuming Apple continues on course, this time next year you'll be awfully glad you held on to that stock…
Just one opinion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31
I agree. Apple had a huge lead in every aspect and did a great job exploiting it, but when the lead started shrinking they failed to adjust their strategy until they didnt have a choice. Even moving from a 3.5" screen to a 4" screen was like pulling teeth. Here we are in mid 2013 and a bigger screen and lower end phone are just conjecture. I will be curious to see what they come out with in the fall, but one has to wonder what could have been.
What? You talk about all this as if it's all ancient history, and we're recounting how Apple crashed and burned 'back in the day'… in a tone resembling a recounting of history and their fatal mistakes...
The last I heard, Apple closed yet another quarter in RECORD SALES territory. Margins were off, but to be expected considering the broader market.
When someone creates a new market space, they briefly enjoy "huge leads" until the rest of the market joins in. THis "decline" is nothing outside of expectation. That Apple has retained well over 50% of the "tablet" space for over two years says more about the strength of their strategy, not a reveal of any inherent weakness.
Based on all the analyses and studies I've seen, the larger-screen phones are doing only marginally well. Incrementally increasing to 4" may have been in their product planning pipeline for a very long time (these things don't pop out of the engineering workshops overnight you know). And besides pointing out that small change, where else have they "failed to adjust their strategy"? You highlighted nothing.
For all you know (and I suspect this is more true) what we're seeing is EXACTLY their long-term strategy playing out exactly as planned…
It could explain why Apple remains at the top of the profits/sales/mindshare heap. ALl things considered, they are managing competition quite handily, in my view… seriously, it's Apple on one side, and the ENTIRE rest of the tech world on the other competing with them.
And you think they have somehow "failed"? Laughable...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer
This will never change ?
Probably not anytime soon. Android is the new Windows when it comes to fragmentation and malware...