On macs I think only the Marvell express card chips have any official Mountain Lion support. I know I got a few questions why whatever raid stopped working with Lion or ML.
Wow! I haven't even thought about EC in years. I assumed it was a dying technology. If it's not, could an EC card be used with TB or are the performance limitations of EC too poor?
Wow! I haven't even thought about EC in years. I assumed it was a dying technology. If it's not, could an EC card be used with TB or are the performance limitations of EC too poor?
It looks like it won't give the speed. The bandwidth on PCIe 1.0 machines is is 2.5Gbps, PCIe 2.0 is 5.0Gbps.
It looks like it won't give the speed. The bandwidth on PCIe 1.0 machines is is 2.5Gbps, PCIe 2.0 is 5.0Gbps.
Fact check: PCIe 1.0 is 2 Gbps PER LANE. 2.0 is 4 Gbps. Maximum at x16 lane bandwidth on one slot is 32 Gbps and 64 Gbps, respectively. Thunderbolt is thus unsuitable for serious graphics card use in expansion chassis, as most of them run on x16 lanes on PCIe 2.0. Thunderbolt, in its current incarnation, can only run x1 cards without throttling bandwidth.
Perfectly timed article. Today, to my horror, I discovered that both USB ports on my 2011 MacBook Air 13" have developed a fault that means my (portable) backup drive keeps being kicked off - I even bought a new drive, thinking initially it was the drive. Visit to Apple store (Reading, England) confirmed it's the MBA, which is out of warranty, and I'm not willing to pay to have it fixed. So, I went to check out the portable Thunderbolt equipped drives. None, except one huge expensive G drive, for the desktop. (I like to take my backup drive with me when I leave the MBA on my desk so always choose models about the size of a smart phone. G-Drive Slim etc.)
I mentioned to the Apple store staff the irony of them not carrying any Thunderbolt drives, and then went to PC World, who didn't stock a single one either, despite carrying Apple gear. Finally tried John Lewis, no luck there either! (In fact, all stores stocked the same drives, Western Digital Passport/Studio drives. Not much competition!)
So I have an MBA with NO backup. Being I have over 1 million files and 25 years of work on it's 256GB SSD, I have just done some research into the best online backup service, and am going to abandon using a hard drive from now on and signup for (drum roll)...
Crashplan.
It has got great reviews and appears to tick most of the boxes, even if not as good as Dropbox and others for more touchy feely features such as sharing/collaboration etc. It is mature and sensible.
Who needs USB/Thunderbolt when you have the cloud?
A WiFi Time Capsule would be a good idea for you, 256 GB SSD is a tiny drive and works really well with this set up. I have the same drive as a boot now in my MBPro (as well as a 1 TB HDD). I am pretty well stuck with Firewire 800 and wifi for back ups with my MBPro 2010. Now I think about it I have never used for USB of any kind for data transfer. If a Mac Pro is launched at WWDC with TB I may get one and be thrust into this issue of lack of external devices, hopefully any new Mac Pro has a FW 800 for such legacy devices as I have. The lack of Firewire on MBA's was the reason i never bought one, I have many FW 800 external drives.
Fact check: PCIe 1.0 is 2 Gbps PER LANE. 2.0 is 4 Gbps. Maximum at x16 lane bandwidth on one slot is 32 Gbps and 64 Gbps, respectively. Thunderbolt is thus unsuitable for serious graphics card use in expansion chassis, as most of them run on x16 lanes on PCIe 2.0. Thunderbolt, in its current incarnation, can only run x1 cards without throttling bandwidth.
Context is important. I was talking about the Expresscard, in the context of laptops, on the topic of adding USB 3 to an older laptop. On the exact bandwidth, I only took it from the Wikipedia page on Expresscard. Maybe they're wrong, maybe it's a difference between signal rate vs. data payload. I don't understand the discrepancy. They do rate 2.5GT/s. Might be part of the problem.
I wasn't talking about the external graphics, though that was in the discussion in places. I agree it's not viable for heavy graphics, but it is viable as a frame buffer.
I mentioned to the Apple store staff the irony of them not carrying any Thunderbolt drives, and then went to PC World, who didn't stock a single one either, despite carrying Apple gear. Finally tried John Lewis, no luck there either! (In fact, all stores stocked the same drives, Western Digital Passport/Studio drives. Not much competition!)
Who needs USB/Thunderbolt when you have the cloud?
Hopefully you splurged for a Gigabit Fiber Optic internet connection as well. Otherwise restoring 256GB from the cloud if/when the time comes is going to be painful experience.
Try Other World Computing for Thunderbolt accessories. They're top notch for Mac hardware and provide plenty of options for international shipping depending on whether you want speed or low cost.
The same can be said with USB 3.0. Sure, there are PCIe USB 3.0 cards but the same can be said for TB, and I don't think either of these are issues since desktop/towers are not the most commonly sold modern PC today.
Au contraire! You can't add a TB interface just like you can add USB 3.0 ports via an PCIe card. Like adding PCIe on AGP-PCI computers, Thunderbolt ports being a driverless serial PCI bus itself, electrically speaking the TB controller cannot be behind another PCI controller. You will never found TB add-ons for after-market computers like any other external interfaces because of this, Asus got a TB add-on custom card but it only work for their own TB ready motherboard. This is also why Intel has complete control over the OEM manufacturer and only intel based motherboard can offer TB ports for now.
Fact check: PCIe 1.0 is 2 Gbps PER LANE. 2.0 is 4 Gbps. Maximum at x16 lane bandwidth on one slot is 32 Gbps and 64 Gbps, respectively. Thunderbolt is thus unsuitable for serious graphics card use in expansion chassis, as most of them run on x16 lanes on PCIe 2.0. Thunderbolt, in its current incarnation, can only run x1 cards without throttling bandwidth.
According to TB documentation, the current 10Gbps Bidi implementation assure x4 PCIe 1.0 lanes bandwidth without throttling, still no enough for serious graphics card solution indeed, but more than enough for multi-interfaces docks, expansion chassis, HD video capture and very high disk I/O solution.
Seeing some chip side accessories would be nice. Graphics or CPU for example, but those companies don't seem very interested at the moment. I wish they were...
There are many possibilities but it's Intel who isn't interested not the companies. Aim your wishes at them : )
There are probably many manufacturers with great ideas for useful, high quality products who can't get Intel to return their emails.
Wow, that's just a terrible bunch of half-baked damage control quotes that don't ring true. Intel shouldn't have let its marketing director get involved.
"We're pleased at the rate of growth". Huh?
This.
The explanations were terrible -- just butt-covering tripe. There is something obviously wrong with the roll-out of Thunderbolt and all we get from Intel by way of explanation is a bunch of hand-waving and hot air.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
There are USB 3 Express Cards
On macs I think only the Marvell express card chips have any official Mountain Lion support. I know I got a few questions why whatever raid stopped working with Lion or ML.
Wow! I haven't even thought about EC in years. I assumed it was a dying technology. If it's not, could an EC card be used with TB or are the performance limitations of EC too poor?
It looks like it won't give the speed. The bandwidth on PCIe 1.0 machines is is 2.5Gbps, PCIe 2.0 is 5.0Gbps.
Fact check: PCIe 1.0 is 2 Gbps PER LANE. 2.0 is 4 Gbps. Maximum at x16 lane bandwidth on one slot is 32 Gbps and 64 Gbps, respectively. Thunderbolt is thus unsuitable for serious graphics card use in expansion chassis, as most of them run on x16 lanes on PCIe 2.0. Thunderbolt, in its current incarnation, can only run x1 cards without throttling bandwidth.
A WiFi Time Capsule would be a good idea for you, 256 GB SSD is a tiny drive and works really well with this set up. I have the same drive as a boot now in my MBPro (as well as a 1 TB HDD). I am pretty well stuck with Firewire 800 and wifi for back ups with my MBPro 2010. Now I think about it I have never used for USB of any kind for data transfer. If a Mac Pro is launched at WWDC with TB I may get one and be thrust into this issue of lack of external devices, hopefully any new Mac Pro has a FW 800 for such legacy devices as I have. The lack of Firewire on MBA's was the reason i never bought one, I have many FW 800 external drives.
Context is important. I was talking about the Expresscard, in the context of laptops, on the topic of adding USB 3 to an older laptop. On the exact bandwidth, I only took it from the Wikipedia page on Expresscard. Maybe they're wrong, maybe it's a difference between signal rate vs. data payload. I don't understand the discrepancy. They do rate 2.5GT/s. Might be part of the problem.
I wasn't talking about the external graphics, though that was in the discussion in places. I agree it's not viable for heavy graphics, but it is viable as a frame buffer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife
I mentioned to the Apple store staff the irony of them not carrying any Thunderbolt drives, and then went to PC World, who didn't stock a single one either, despite carrying Apple gear. Finally tried John Lewis, no luck there either! (In fact, all stores stocked the same drives, Western Digital Passport/Studio drives. Not much competition!)
Who needs USB/Thunderbolt when you have the cloud?
Hopefully you splurged for a Gigabit Fiber Optic internet connection as well. Otherwise restoring 256GB from the cloud if/when the time comes is going to be painful experience.
Try Other World Computing for Thunderbolt accessories. They're top notch for Mac hardware and provide plenty of options for international shipping depending on whether you want speed or low cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The same can be said with USB 3.0. Sure, there are PCIe USB 3.0 cards but the same can be said for TB, and I don't think either of these are issues since desktop/towers are not the most commonly sold modern PC today.
Au contraire! You can't add a TB interface just like you can add USB 3.0 ports via an PCIe card. Like adding PCIe on AGP-PCI computers, Thunderbolt ports being a driverless serial PCI bus itself, electrically speaking the TB controller cannot be behind another PCI controller. You will never found TB add-ons for after-market computers like any other external interfaces because of this, Asus got a TB add-on custom card but it only work for their own TB ready motherboard. This is also why Intel has complete control over the OEM manufacturer and only intel based motherboard can offer TB ports for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanimal
Fact check: PCIe 1.0 is 2 Gbps PER LANE. 2.0 is 4 Gbps. Maximum at x16 lane bandwidth on one slot is 32 Gbps and 64 Gbps, respectively. Thunderbolt is thus unsuitable for serious graphics card use in expansion chassis, as most of them run on x16 lanes on PCIe 2.0. Thunderbolt, in its current incarnation, can only run x1 cards without throttling bandwidth.
According to TB documentation, the current 10Gbps Bidi implementation assure x4 PCIe 1.0 lanes bandwidth without throttling, still no enough for serious graphics card solution indeed, but more than enough for multi-interfaces docks, expansion chassis, HD video capture and very high disk I/O solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania
Seeing some chip side accessories would be nice. Graphics or CPU for example, but those companies don't seem very interested at the moment. I wish they were...
There are many possibilities but it's Intel who isn't interested not the companies. Aim your wishes at them : )
There are probably many manufacturers with great ideas for useful, high quality products who can't get Intel to return their emails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd
Wow, that's just a terrible bunch of half-baked damage control quotes that don't ring true. Intel shouldn't have let its marketing director get involved.
"We're pleased at the rate of growth". Huh?
This.
The explanations were terrible -- just butt-covering tripe. There is something obviously wrong with the roll-out of Thunderbolt and all we get from Intel by way of explanation is a bunch of hand-waving and hot air.