Wow...judging from the number of deletions on this thread, look like someone struck a nerve with a petulant moderator. I often get the feeling that AI moderators (and others here) completely misunderstand the definition of 'trolling', and instead, throw the phrase at individuals with conflicting viewpoints as some form of derogatory ad hominem attack.
Wow...judging from the number of deletions on this thread, look like someone struck a nerve with a petulant moderator. I often get the feeling that AI moderators (and others here) completely misunderstand the definition of 'trolling', and instead, throw the phrase at individuals with conflicting viewpoints as some form of derogatory ad hominem attack.
One person signed up, made 40 posts, most filled with the standard invectives against Apple and their users, and we're supposed to put up with it, why?
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
One person signed up, made 40 posts, most filled with the standard invectives against Apple and their users, and we're supposed to put up with it, why?
In an article discussing an ITC ruling like this...YES...you are supposed to put up with it. If you don't have the stomach for it...stick to the 'latest products' rumor articles.
I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such.
Squint, then.
Originally Posted by e_veritas
In an article discussing an ITC ruling like this...YES...you are supposed to put up with it. If you don't have the stomach for it...stick to the 'latest products' rumor articles.
You're standing on a mountain of Jell-O during the Big One if you think you're anything resembling correct in supporting that idiot.
In an article discussing an ITC ruling like this...YES...you are supposed to put up with it. If you don't have the stomach for it...stick to the 'latest products' rumor articles.
No. This is a privately owned site, a privately owned site can, for the most part, make its own rules.
We don't have to accept people that shit all over this site any more than you have to let people shit all over your own lawn.
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
He threw around quality arguments like: «Apple never invented anything–EVER», «If Apple wins, it’s because of Samsung! Apple is nothing without Samsung» and an odd «Os9 vs Vista» comparison to plead his case. All in a very rapid fire fashion – and pretty aggressively to boot.
One of the «troll all stars» for the current season if you ask me.
He threw around quality arguments like: «Apple never invented anything–EVER», «If Apple wins, it’s because of Samsung! Apple is nothing without Samsung» and an odd «Os9 vs Vista» comparison to plead his case. All in a very rapid fire fashion – and pretty aggressively to boot.
One of the «troll all stars» for the current season if you ask me.
Unfortunately, I have only been able to see his comments from quoted material; as everything was already deleted when I started reading. I'll just have to take your word that things like that were said I suppose.
One person signed up, made 40 posts, most filled with the standard invectives against Apple and their users, and we're supposed to put up with it, why?
Really? This guy made the standard invectives against Apple? He made reasoned posts that were contradictory to the mods' viewpoint. Note the word reasoned. There were a few times when he said things that were inflammatory but inflammatory remarks only seem to be moderated if they are against Apple. Ex-moderator Tallest Skil (thank you for removing his mod status) makes nothing but inflammatory remarks. Looks like he's made about 25,000 and he's still going strong. All he does is come in with vitriolic one-liners. How is that not trolling? That's the very definition of trolling! He's allowed to stay because he is pro Apple even though less than one percent of his posts actually make any evidence based arguments to support Apple. Please show some balance and either start deleting the TS troll posts or start leaving the well-reasoned-though-disputed-by-loud-mouthed-zealots “troll" posts.
Now, this does qualify as a potentially seriously stupid comment.
Can you please show us a causal relation between R&D and innovation? Especially one that also controls for A&D? A link/cite would help.
Again, one reason for Apple relatively low R&D budget is that their researchers not only search but also find ! (but also, more precisely, there is at company highest level, a commitment to take the risks associated to turning a good idea into a product, and fund corresponding huge costs).
the second reason is that , as opposed to Samsung, as I explained into a previous post, Apple is more an example of "pure player" integrator, whereas Samsung is both integrator & components supplier.
No, just reality check. If you do not know something --> do not pretend you do.
I said "Because the only way to engineer something is to physically manufacture it."
You then said that I was wrong, that that statement was incorrect given that only 10-15% of engineered products end up getting manufactured.
My initial post was sarcastic, as I personally engineer things and have someone else manufacture it, so I know that you can engineer something without physically manufacturing it...
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
That's a narrow view of a "troll"; in a more broad sense, a troll is one who purposely makes comments that are specifically designed to provoke a negative emotional reaction, especially on a fan-centric forum. Basically trying to stir the pot.
This is a website for Apple enthusiasts primarily. If you hate Apple, why are you here? It's fine to not support Apple at every juncture, but we're talking about people who's sole purpose of registering on this forum is to make anti-Apple comments and cause emotional reactions.
In this day and age, don't be naive that of the not-so-unlikely possibility of "astro turfing" taking place, with paid shills posting garbage opinions. Many companies have been caught doing this, so don't believe that some of these "new" posters aren't here for an ulterior motive.
Any good points that JoshKar426 had were hurt by making such hyperbolic statements like Apple spends $0 on R&D and Apple maps kills people everyday. It's obvious that he was trolling. That said, the conversation about the over zealous moderation on this site is worthwhile, IMO.
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity. If Apple Insider wants to create a Fox News/CNN type of environment then my point is moot. However, if AI wants to be taken seriously they will need to allow for both sides of an argument. If an Android enthusiast comes here (again, assuming they're not a troll) and wants to have a civil discussion about Android vs. Apple I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Again, it just depends on the type of environment AI wishes to create and how they want the rest of the world to see them.
I'm fairly confident that this post will be deleted and I will be banned for speaking out so will someone please quote this in a response ASAP so that others can see it?
You have apparently formed your views based on partial information. That says it all.
I would love to know how any view isn't formed on 'partial information'? Are you declaring yourself some sort of omniscient being? The tone of your comment sure seems to suggest so....
Any good points that JoshKar426 had were hurt by making such hyperbolic statements like Apple spends $0 on R&D and Apple maps kills people everyday. It's obvious that he was trolling. That said, the conversation about the over zealous moderation on this site is worthwhile, IMO.
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity. If Apple Insider wants to create a Fox News/CNN type of environment then my point is moot. However, if AI wants to be taken seriously they will need to allow for both sides of an argument. If an Android enthusiast comes here (again, assuming they're not a troll) and wants to have a civil discussion about Android vs. Apple I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Again, it just depends on the type of environment AI wishes to create and how they want the rest of the world to see them.
I'm fairly confident that this post will be deleted and I will be banned for speaking out so will someone please quote this in a response ASAP so that others can see it?
My sentiment exactly. Unfortunately, making observations like this seems to inspire a 'shoot the messenger' mentality around here.
Bother with what, telling these fools why they're wrong instead of just getting rid of them? Wonder that sometimes myself.
Exactly, those people aren't worth a single intelligent response, their maximum level in discussion is "rounded corners, market share, apple is doomed, small screen..." . And every single time it's the same. Just ignore them and when they get too offensive erase the shit out of them.
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity.
I think that, overall, AI does a pretty darn good job of it. There are lots of dissenting voices here. In fact, some regulars post only to dissent or to be negative about Apple, yet they are not banned. The reason is that they tend to, or at least attempt to, back up what they're saying -- right or not -- with arguments and cites/links.
It's the idiotically supercharged 'let's-throw-a-match' style drive-by commenting that is -- and should be -- thrown out on its butt.
Comments
Nope, he was a troll
One person signed up, made 40 posts, most filled with the standard invectives against Apple and their users, and we're supposed to put up with it, why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Nope, he was a troll
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
One person signed up, made 40 posts, most filled with the standard invectives against Apple and their users, and we're supposed to put up with it, why?
In an article discussing an ITC ruling like this...YES...you are supposed to put up with it. If you don't have the stomach for it...stick to the 'latest products' rumor articles.
Originally Posted by e_veritas
I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such.
Squint, then.
Originally Posted by e_veritas
In an article discussing an ITC ruling like this...YES...you are supposed to put up with it. If you don't have the stomach for it...stick to the 'latest products' rumor articles.
You're standing on a mountain of Jell-O during the Big One if you think you're anything resembling correct in supporting that idiot.
No. This is a privately owned site, a privately owned site can, for the most part, make its own rules.
We don't have to accept people that shit all over this site any more than you have to let people shit all over your own lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
He threw around quality arguments like: «Apple never invented anything–EVER», «If Apple wins, it’s because of Samsung! Apple is nothing without Samsung» and an odd «Os9 vs Vista» comparison to plead his case. All in a very rapid fire fashion – and pretty aggressively to boot.
One of the «troll all stars» for the current season if you ask me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil
He threw around quality arguments like: «Apple never invented anything–EVER», «If Apple wins, it’s because of Samsung! Apple is nothing without Samsung» and an odd «Os9 vs Vista» comparison to plead his case. All in a very rapid fire fashion – and pretty aggressively to boot.
One of the «troll all stars» for the current season if you ask me.
Unfortunately, I have only been able to see his comments from quoted material; as everything was already deleted when I started reading. I'll just have to take your word that things like that were said I suppose.
Really? This guy made the standard invectives against Apple? He made reasoned posts that were contradictory to the mods' viewpoint. Note the word reasoned. There were a few times when he said things that were inflammatory but inflammatory remarks only seem to be moderated if they are against Apple. Ex-moderator Tallest Skil (thank you for removing his mod status) makes nothing but inflammatory remarks. Looks like he's made about 25,000 and he's still going strong. All he does is come in with vitriolic one-liners. How is that not trolling? That's the very definition of trolling! He's allowed to stay because he is pro Apple even though less than one percent of his posts actually make any evidence based arguments to support Apple. Please show some balance and either start deleting the TS troll posts or start leaving the well-reasoned-though-disputed-by-loud-mouthed-zealots “troll" posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
Now, this does qualify as a potentially seriously stupid comment.
Can you please show us a causal relation between R&D budgets* and innovation? Especially one that also controls for A&D? A link/cite would help.
*Edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
Unfortunately, I have only been able to see his comments from quoted material...
You have apparently formed your views based on partial information. That says it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Now, this does qualify as a potentially seriously stupid comment.
Can you please show us a causal relation between R&D and innovation? Especially one that also controls for A&D? A link/cite would help.
Again, one reason for Apple relatively low R&D budget is that their researchers not only search but also find ! (but also, more precisely, there is at company highest level, a commitment to take the risks associated to turning a good idea into a product, and fund corresponding huge costs).
the second reason is that , as opposed to Samsung, as I explained into a previous post, Apple is more an example of "pure player" integrator, whereas Samsung is both integrator & components supplier.
Both strategies have advantages & drawbacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls
No, just reality check. If you do not know something --> do not pretend you do.
I said "Because the only way to engineer something is to physically manufacture it."
You then said that I was wrong, that that statement was incorrect given that only 10-15% of engineered products end up getting manufactured.
My initial post was sarcastic, as I personally engineer things and have someone else manufacture it, so I know that you can engineer something without physically manufacturing it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
Trolling implies that he was making extraneous, off-topic comments to disrupt the conversation. I fail to see how comments about Apple's use of other companies' tech...in an article covering an ITC ruling declaring exactly that...qualifies as such. This certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has brought to light Apple's incredibly low R&D compared to other tech companies their size.
That's a narrow view of a "troll"; in a more broad sense, a troll is one who purposely makes comments that are specifically designed to provoke a negative emotional reaction, especially on a fan-centric forum. Basically trying to stir the pot.
This is a website for Apple enthusiasts primarily. If you hate Apple, why are you here? It's fine to not support Apple at every juncture, but we're talking about people who's sole purpose of registering on this forum is to make anti-Apple comments and cause emotional reactions.
In this day and age, don't be naive that of the not-so-unlikely possibility of "astro turfing" taking place, with paid shills posting garbage opinions. Many companies have been caught doing this, so don't believe that some of these "new" posters aren't here for an ulterior motive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
I''ve officially joined the "No Samsung in my house" movement
Good luck:
Samsung 'makes 80% of microchip revenue from Apple devices'
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a486959/samsung-makes-80-percent-of-microchip-revenue-from-apple-devices.html
Apple Resumes Buying LCDs from Samsung Display
http://english.etnews.com/device/2773460_1304.html
Why Apple Can’t Escape Samsung: Globalization
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/05/22/why-apple-cant-escape-samsung-globalization/
Any good points that JoshKar426 had were hurt by making such hyperbolic statements like Apple spends $0 on R&D and Apple maps kills people everyday. It's obvious that he was trolling. That said, the conversation about the over zealous moderation on this site is worthwhile, IMO.
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity. If Apple Insider wants to create a Fox News/CNN type of environment then my point is moot. However, if AI wants to be taken seriously they will need to allow for both sides of an argument. If an Android enthusiast comes here (again, assuming they're not a troll) and wants to have a civil discussion about Android vs. Apple I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Again, it just depends on the type of environment AI wishes to create and how they want the rest of the world to see them.
I'm fairly confident that this post will be deleted and I will be banned for speaking out so will someone please quote this in a response ASAP so that others can see it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You have apparently formed your views based on partial information. That says it all.
I would love to know how any view isn't formed on 'partial information'? Are you declaring yourself some sort of omniscient being? The tone of your comment sure seems to suggest so....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
Any good points that JoshKar426 had were hurt by making such hyperbolic statements like Apple spends $0 on R&D and Apple maps kills people everyday. It's obvious that he was trolling. That said, the conversation about the over zealous moderation on this site is worthwhile, IMO.
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity. If Apple Insider wants to create a Fox News/CNN type of environment then my point is moot. However, if AI wants to be taken seriously they will need to allow for both sides of an argument. If an Android enthusiast comes here (again, assuming they're not a troll) and wants to have a civil discussion about Android vs. Apple I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Again, it just depends on the type of environment AI wishes to create and how they want the rest of the world to see them.
I'm fairly confident that this post will be deleted and I will be banned for speaking out so will someone please quote this in a response ASAP so that others can see it?
My sentiment exactly. Unfortunately, making observations like this seems to inspire a 'shoot the messenger' mentality around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Bother with what, telling these fools why they're wrong instead of just getting rid of them? Wonder that sometimes myself.
Exactly, those people aren't worth a single intelligent response, their maximum level in discussion is "rounded corners, market share, apple is doomed, small screen..." . And every single time it's the same. Just ignore them and when they get too offensive erase the shit out of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
Blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed, but deleting comments and banning anyone who says anything remotely against Apple is not conducive to creating an environment that will be taken seriously by outsiders. This behavior simply creates a sycophantic echo chamber that shows it's bias with blinding clarity.
I think that, overall, AI does a pretty darn good job of it. There are lots of dissenting voices here. In fact, some regulars post only to dissent or to be negative about Apple, yet they are not banned. The reason is that they tend to, or at least attempt to, back up what they're saying -- right or not -- with arguments and cites/links.
It's the idiotically supercharged 'let's-throw-a-match' style drive-by commenting that is -- and should be -- thrown out on its butt.