Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro

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  • Reply 61 of 1320
    ciacia Posts: 153member
    What worries me about this machine.

    Storage & upgradability. That's what makes a pro machine. It's Apple, it's a no brainer this is a $5,000 box we are looking at. MAYBE $4,000 but either way it's high end bucks we are looking at. If somehow they pull $3,000 I will be shocked... Either way:
    There's no cheap way to expand storage. I have a home built eSATA raid hooked up to my 2008 MacPro that holds 8TB of storage (4x2TB drives) as well as an addition 6TB in 2 additional raids. These are hooked to a eSATA card using port multipliers. All this storage cost me just over $1,200. (Drives, 2 port multipliers, eSATA card and a old DVD Duplicator case I had housing it all.

    Housing 4k video takes a lot of space, and buying that space at current thunderbolt prices will add $1-$2,000 more dollars to a price we already know will be high.

    My 2008 3.2x8 MacPro that still has lots of life because along with all that storage, I was able to upgrade the GPU. First from the 8800 to a 5870, then a few weeks ago again to a 7950. The graphics cards in the new MacPro are locked in place, so it will become obsolete faster because of this. Instead of buying a high end machine (CPUs) and then upgrading the other parts as needed you are stuck with what you have. As more and more of the Pro App's leverage the GPU for compute horsepower, upgrading the GPU is critical.
    YAY It's got PCIe 3.0! Except modern graphics cards don't even staturate PCIe 2.0, and the cards are soldered in place so who cares?

    Does PCIe 3 matter on thunderbolt? (actual question here...)

    Should add, if the prices for Thunderbolt accessories drop then this machines becomes very attractive. But for the moment I see a MacMini Pro or the next G4 cube.

    And yes, working in video, I use DVD's and Blu-Ray every day, but I can live with externals for that.
    Smart for Apple, but not for me. I'm a pro user, but that doesn't mean I'm rich.
  • Reply 62 of 1320
    ciacia Posts: 153member


    Double post, delete.

  • Reply 63 of 1320
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,559member

    ...

  • Reply 64 of 1320
    I think there is a big problem with this design. As a video producer and editor, I have 4-5 external hard drives connected at any one time to my laptop. My desk is completely overgrown with power strips, wires, and cables... and the entire physical desk top is taken up with hard drives everywhere. The appeal *to me* of the Mac Pro was all those hard drive bays which would allow me a neat, clean, all-in-one tower with plenty of HDD space inside. This new model will be just as unsightly as a laptop with five devices cabled to it. The new Mac Pro design may look cool in product photos, but it's going to look just as hideous surrounded by a rats nest of cables and wires. This is not going to work for video editors. Fail.
  • Reply 65 of 1320

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I agree.


     


     


    Interesting design. I probably won't buy one though. I was really looking forward to a new Mac Pro, just this isn't what I wanted. Personally I like the large case of the current design. With this new model, I can see a bunch of non-matching external chassis for hard disks, capture cards, optical media burners, etc, scattered around the desk connected by cables, all of which used to be neatly contained inside the tower.


     


    Pros:


    Faster


     


    Cons:


    Not expandable, ugly external accessories required


     


    I was hoping for a hybrid server / pro workstation with dual power supplies, multiple fans for redundant protection, more ram slots, rack-able, card slots, Firewire, optical disks and internal HD capability. I don't like the inlet vent on the bottom either. Too easy for it to be obstructed by cables, papers, etc.


     


    Oh, and BTW the HTML5 animations on the Apple site promoting the Mac Pro are a perfect example of why HTML5 cannot come close to replacing Flash at least not for quality animation. All kinds of glitches, timing issues and jerky non-buffered animation. If that is the best they can do, it says a lot about the lack of capabilities of the HTML5 platform.



     


    oh man....

  • Reply 66 of 1320
    sennensennen Posts: 1,468member
    v5v wrote: »

    Our existing Pro has a slot into which we can drop an upgraded video card. We never have. We bought the best the machine could support at the time and have never changed it.

    Thunderbolt pretty much solves the last of the cases we had for slots. The Blackmagic Design cards we use for HD-SDI I/O are now available in Thunderbolt versions, as is our Pro Tools controller.

    I know for a fact that companies like AJA and Blackmagic have been waiting for this Mac Pro. The lack of expansion slots will be taken care of by them and Thunderbolt 2. The solutions may be pricey, but it is the Mac Pro after all.
  • Reply 67 of 1320
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rkevwill View Post



    I hope some of the supposed experts replying here, understand the expandability of thunderbolt ports. Including, external PCI enclosures, with any PCI device you want to throw in there.


     


    Yes, each enclosure will share the equivalent of a x8 lane.  Meaning if you have a high speed card that wants x8 performance it's on card per external enclosure.


     


    Hopefully they stack.


     


    If you have a x16 card it'll be throttled.  That's probably not so great.  Perhaps they'll add bonding to the TB2 specs so you can bond two of the ports together for better throughput.

  • Reply 68 of 1320


    Of course you can rack mount it


     


  • Reply 69 of 1320
    I think what Apple did with the Mac Pro mirrors what recently happened with Final Cut Pro X.
    Completely new paradigm that had many up in arms.
    It took a few updates and some new third party tools to meet the needs of some users.
    But at the same time, the new lower pricing made it accessible to many more semi-pro users.
    The current Mac Pro starts at $2500.
    I believe the new Mac Pro will start at $1800-2000.
  • Reply 70 of 1320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    The article's vague because its author thinks Ethernet is FireWire 800. image

     

     

    This proves that Apple has done 100% the right thing.

     

     

    GUESS WHAT THE CYLINDER CAN DO, KIDDO.

     

    That's so effing stupid.

     

     

    Pros want a lot of cores. Multiple processors are just a means to that end. You'd know that if you actually knew anything.

     

    Also? There are no single-chip processors with 12 cores from any manufacturer. Not that I can find, anyway. Not Sandy, Ivy, or Haswell.

     

    Yeah, they could have made it a worthless update that didn't actually innovate anything and for which they would have been mocked and derided because it was "late".

     

    Instead they punched people like you in the metaphorical face and told you to shut up. This is the future. Deal with it.

     

    LOL. That was a bit harsh, but I have to agree. This thing is spec'd at 70 terraflops -- is anyone appreciating and digesting that concept? I think what people don't realize is that the days of slapping in a RAID hard drive, and tweaking the MHZ on a processor are probably gone. Apple is going with some fixed systems and soldered parts because tolerances are too thin to play around with. "Missing hard drive bays" -- it's using a terabyte of Flash RAM. That's enough room to put the OS and a few favorite apps on, right? With the speed of Thunderbolt 2 you can attach all kinds of RAID hard drives on that thing and still have bandwidth -- there is no conventional way his OLD SETUP of adding drives is going to be slowed down by mounting them externally.

     

    I mean sure, we all want to tweak hardware and FEEL smart -- but that's for the engineers now. There's likely nothing you can do to speed this system up without affecting RAM timing or adding heat to a very efficient design. I don't REALLY know how perfected the design is -- but I'm just breezing of the specs and drooling. I haven't heard of a system that was so designed for speed outside of a lab.

     

    I'm just thinking of all the real-time 3D rendering and user interaction on 4K screens you could do with this baby.
  • Reply 71 of 1320
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member


    Looking through the preview pages at apple.com, two things really stand out for me:


    1. The cooling: I love the idea that there is a central heatsink/column that everything is attached to, and a single fan.


    2. The storage speed. I have the latest SSD on my PC which does 500MB/s read, 450MB/s write, they are claiming 1250MB/s for this box.


     


    I think when people get to try this out it's going to feel like the fastest box they've ever used.

  • Reply 72 of 1320
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Plumperton1 View Post



    I think there is a big problem with this design. As a video producer and editor, I have 4-5 external hard drives connected at any one time to my laptop. My desk is completely overgrown with power strips, wires, and cables... and the entire physical desk top is taken up with hard drives everywhere. The appeal *to me* of the Mac Pro was all those hard drive bays which would allow me a neat, clean, all-in-one tower with plenty of HDD space inside. This new model will be just as unsightly as a laptop with five devices cabled to it. The new Mac Pro design may look cool in product photos, but it's going to look just as hideous surrounded by a rats nest of cables and wires. This is not going to work for video editors. Fail.


     


    Hopefully someone will build a matching black base for the Mac Pro to sit on (and get cool air) and provide an octopus cable to the TB2 ports.  Each slot in the chassis gets it's own TB2 port and you get a built in 4-6 bay RAID array.


     


    Then the Cray fans will really have a nano Cray 1 sitting on their desk.


     



     


     


    You can arrange the slots radially with the backs ending up in the donut hole so you can route any cables out the back.

  • Reply 73 of 1320
    jollypauljollypaul Posts: 328member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post



    The more I read about this new Mac Pro, the more I'm liking it.


     


    That is my reaction. I was chilly to the concept when I first heard about it, but the walk through made it clearer what it was: a small but powerful processor module with fast local storage for the system and fast ports for connecting to bulk storage. The cooling setup is great. The bet Apple is making is by the time you need to upgrade the two GPU modules, you will want to upgrade the CPU and memory as well.


     


    On top of all that, it looks nice once you see it in regular light. Some photos look like black shiny plastic when it really is reflective metal. They need to take better shots.


     


    The cost will be killer though. 5K to start, up to 10K/15K USD depending on setup? Way outside what I can afford, but some forward thinking professionals should be able to appreciate it.

  • Reply 74 of 1320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Plumperton1 View Post

    I think there is a big problem with this design. As a video producer and editor, I have 4-5 external hard drives connected at any one time to my laptop. My desk is completely overgrown with power strips, wires, and cables... and the entire physical desk top is taken up with hard drives everywhere. The appeal *to me* of the Mac Pro was all those hard drive bays which would allow me a neat, clean, all-in-one tower with plenty of HDD space inside. This new model will be just as unsightly as a laptop with five devices cabled to it. The new Mac Pro design may look cool in product photos, but it's going to look just as hideous surrounded by a rats nest of cables and wires. This is not going to work for video editors. Fail.

     

    I'm not really sure what your problem is here. Why can't you just get a 6 bay SATA enclosure and hook it to USB 3.0 for about $250? You already have a hodgepodge of drives on your current system -- so this would be no different unless you invest in some way to deal with your drives. It's a tiny hassle but not a deal breaker if you consider the specs on this machine and a terabyte of SSD.

     

    it might be NICE to stick them all in the Computer Box - but I think I get what Apple is trying to do here; they want the Central Processing Unit to be a "known entity" and as fast and reliable as possible. All the devices you add are peripheral.

     

    If you want FASTER than USB 3 - then you go with Thunderbolt -- it's a bit of an investment right now but that is PRO LEVEL. USB 3 covers everything under the pro level and it's cheap. Not trying to be an apologist here but Apple is creating this as a dream machine for pros -- so they don't want to play with people who aren't using Thunderbolt.

     

    Take the money you will save from not having to buy accelerator cards and a super computer - and just get a big drive bay. I've gotten away from external drives and just use the bare drives and plug them in. It's cheaper and easier to manage large projects.
  • Reply 75 of 1320
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post



    The current Mac Pro starts at $2500.

    I believe the new Mac Pro will start at $1800-2000.


     


    If it starts at $1800 it should do really well if it comes with a half decent GPU.  Doesn't have to be awesome but half decent.  Say a GTX 775M or equivalent with 2GB RAM.  Something that 3 years from now will perform okay with the latest pro app since you can't upgrade it.


     


    If it does start at $1800 then the iMac 27" will take a huge hit in numbers.  I wouldn't be surprised if the starting price will be $3K.


     


    Two 6 core Xeon


    4x4GB RAM for 16GB


    512GB SSD


    Single GPU


     


    That's a $800 price drop from the current 12 Core Mac Pro and a great value.   The starting price went up $500 though.


     


    If there is a Quad model I don't see it costing less than $2K.  It would crater the iMac sales too much and the margins on the screen are too sweet to pass up.

  • Reply 76 of 1320

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Clueless troll 2010,2011,2012 - Where is the new Mac Pro? The Mac Pro is getting kind of stale! Apple needs to update the design! Has Apple discontinued and abandoned the Mac Pro line?


     


    Clueless troll 2013 - WTF! Where is the old Mac Pro?! I don't see any SCSI connection and where is the CD slot? There is just too much innovation going on here for my feeble mind to comprehend. 



    That's not fair.


     


    It's not being a troll wanting, asking and even demanding a new Mac Pro when Apple didn't update the product for so long. Some of the Mac Pro users are more loyal and knowledgeable, not to mention long time customers of Apple. 


     


    People are allowed to act and react emotionally without being called names, especially when they are not espousing their opinions with the express purpose of being inflammatory and baiting others, which you seem to doing. Who is really being more of a troll? 


     


    Really uncalled for.

  • Reply 77 of 1320


    There doesn't seem to be anything stopping upgrading of RAM or for that matter the HDD. They aren't soldered on at all but are in reasonably standard slots from what I can see.


     


    The only thing that might put a spanner in the works is how easy is it to get into the case? It does look pretty easy but it remains to be seen.

  • Reply 78 of 1320
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nonstopdesign View Post


    oh man....



    There has never been a better time for Adobe to release Creative Suite for Linux. Personally I like big cases and motherboards that I can build to suit my needs. Hackintosh is probably not an option going forward, but neither is this new Mac Pro in my opinion. 4K video and thunderbolt are not exclusive to Apple. Premier is already 4K capable. TB2 will also be available on other boards around the same time.

  • Reply 79 of 1320
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post


    This is just such a futuristic marvel that has the potential to change the way Pros work.


     


    Of course, most of them are retarded and unable to evolve, it's a shame they will be left behind. Same thing with keyboards and mouses, diskette and cd rom, you name it.



     


    I disagree about the pros disagreeing. image


     


    This machine is exactly what a real pro wants.  The people complaining are those dilettantes that think they are "pros" but aren't really, and just want a super hot machine to brag about.  


    Basically most of the folks that post at AppleInsider (including me).

  • Reply 80 of 1320
    isaidsoisaidso Posts: 750member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post



    It's a fantastic addition to the Mac lineup. Consumers will want it.



    It's a horrible replacement for the Mac Pro tower. Real Pros will hate it.


    Ha!  You're so clueless. It's funny. But at least (as you say) people like you will want it.

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