Microsoft undercuts Apple in education, selling Surface RT for $199

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  • Reply 41 of 94
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member


    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    The Redmond giant may be looking to clear inventory ahead of a refreshed version of the device, which is thought to have sold fewer than one million units in the ten months since its release.


     


    Not to worry.  Revenue from legacy products (Windows + Office) will save the day.


     


     




    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    The new Windows builds have had a tough initial outing, though, with Windows 8 sales sputtering and Windows RT sales virtually nonexistent.


     



    Oops.  Maybe reveue from Windows + Office won't save the day.


    Windows 8 isn't boosting PC sales one bit.


    Which is yet another reason for PC OEMs to hate Microsoft.

  • Reply 42 of 94
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,578member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I pity the poor school administrator/IT person who's a sucker for this.


     


    I can see seriously cash-strapped schools falling for this sad ruse....



     


    Yeah, pretty sleazy of Microsoft to try to unload this garbage on school children.

  • Reply 43 of 94
    thecorethecore Posts: 56member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post


    Well, I guess my prediction they'd be discounting the Surface within a year didn't turn out to be off the mark...


     


    Education can save a hundred or so with the Surface RT on the purchase, and then have all that money to spend on the support costs -- if they haven't learned their lessons from the last time they SAVED money with Microsoft.



    Agree with this and like posts.    Maybe the Gates foundation should be put to task of fixing the fallout when this becomes a disaster for teachers,  administrators and most off all students.   IMO,    MS should not be looking to dump inferior tech on students or cash strapped school budgets.

  • Reply 44 of 94
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    This is pollution, pure and simple.

    Microsoft is dumping their junk inventory into the education environment, which should be valued and protected as much or more than any other segment of our society. These are kids we're talking about, and teachers who have enough to deal with already, without having to wrestle with incompetent technology.

    Contrasted with Apple, there's no comparison. Microsoft is being very cynical here. They ought to just recycle the devices, or give them to Bill and Melinda and see if they could come up with some program to justify the tablets' existence.
  • Reply 45 of 94
    don108don108 Posts: 79member
    This is the exact policy Microsoft followed with Windows. Give huge discounts to schools and hide the financial losses in with the Windows/Office profits. Get kids used to Windows today so they'll use it tomorrow. MS has the cash to afford losses in profits now in exchange for greater profits later.

    It's a technique that has been used by monopolists throughout history.
  • Reply 46 of 94
    Mmmm...

    Sometime, RSN, Turkey is supposed to award the bid for the Fatih Project -- starting with an initial 11 Million tablets for Elementary School, followed by 2 million per year.

    http://www.invest.gov.tr/en-US/infocenter/news/Pages/200513-turkey-fatih-project-tender-process-start.aspx

    And Ballmer has expressed willingness to do [almost] anything to be part of the awards (I can't locate the exact quote".

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-government-project-lures-tech-giants-microsoft.aspx?pageID=238&nid=41799


    I think Sammy (and maybe others) was awarded a preliminary bid -- but that, apparently, didn't go well. So MS may try to give away their inferior solution...

    [B][I]Those first-graders are really going to love that Ribbon Menu![/I][/B]
  • Reply 47 of 94
    jeejucmjeejucm Posts: 13member
    Kids teenage knows the big difference between iPad and surface they will only stomp Microsoft surface tab soon uprooting it away as the next generation gadget. Microsoft need to abandon the cut and paste policy for once and for all
  • Reply 48 of 94
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,861member
    jeejucm wrote: »
    Kids teenage knows the big difference between iPad and surface they will only stomp Microsoft surface tab soon uprooting it away as the next generation gadget. Microsoft need to abandon the cut and paste policy for once and for all

    Doesn't really matter if kids know the difference. What matters is if the people making the decisions to buy XYZ product know the difference. Even then, sometimes they see its cheaper to go that route even though it may cost them more in the long run for various reasons. Kids use what they're told to use. Its not like they'll throw a fit like a 2yr old. It also matters if the teacher wants to use the technology. A lot of time they're forced to in some way, shape, or form whether or not they want to.
  • Reply 49 of 94
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    iaeen wrote: »
    As terrible as the surface is, I don't think it's fair to call it cheaply made. From all accounts the hardware is actually nice. It is the software that lets it down, which is ironic seeing as Microsoft is a software company.

    If so, the tablet's failure illustrates what Jobs said, "Design is the way it works."

    Microsoft has to start realizing this, but I don't think they will until Ballmer drops acid and goes to India to finish his education.

    Apple is starting to talk about this more and more, with their recent emphasis on "services." Hardware is nothing if it doesn't fit into the big ecosystem of our lives.
  • Reply 50 of 94
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    If Microsoft really wants to differentiate from Apple then implement the file-system and other legacy windows features in metro. Give us all the power a PC has in metro and do away with the stupid desktop mode for heavens sake. Apple seems to have their philosophy but MS doesn't seem to have any clear vision at all. It keeps saying BS about surface being a real computer but I don't see how RT is better than iPad in anyway. Sure ,the OS is better in some ways like multitasking but that's it. Implement the file system in metro ,implement every desktop feature in metro and give us all the control METRO ! Then it might be able to stand up to the ipad instead of aping it.

    Second thread I've seen your silly comments, but I'll take the bait in answering with a question:

    Ever heard of Surface Pro? You know... the MS tablet that does all you're asking for above.... but still isn't selling?

    Multitasking? Only something an MS masochist or Droid dolt would mention as a feature "better than the iPad". Besides, multitasking on the iPad works great already if you know how to do 3-finger swipes... and it will get even better this Fall with iOS7.

    Besides, for the majority of people on sub 11" devices, they don't miss "side-by-side multitasking", quite obviously considering the sales records and usage of the iPad. Just sayin'....:p

    Given 'em away.... wow! Unbelievable how seriously catastrophic that truly is(!) I'm starting to feel sorry for the buggers......um....nah... not really. Ever since that Faux-Funeral for the iPhone, I think they can suck it for just punishment and chew on the bitter taste of their hubris a bit longer IMHO.
  • Reply 51 of 94


    I'm betting that there are school boards and principals dumb enough to buy these machines. 

  • Reply 52 of 94
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,861member
    flaneur wrote: »
    If so, the tablet's failure illustrates what Jobs said, "Design is the way it works."

    Microsoft has to start realizing this, but I don't think they will until Ballmer drops acid and goes to India to finish his education.

    Apple is starting to talk about this more and more, with their recent emphasis on "services." Hardware is nothing if it doesn't fit into the big ecosystem of our lives.

    I think you've hit it...Apple has the iOS ecosystem and Microsoft doesn't and never will. They're too late to the party and will never catch up no matter what they do in this space. They'd be better off trying to find the next big thing past a tablet and start working on it for a few years rather than following suit with everyone else trying to beat Apple at its own game.
  • Reply 53 of 94
    iaeen wrote: »
    ddawson100 wrote: »
    This is the first time that hardware is included in a discount program. Charity and Donation programs have always existed for phenomenal pricing for non-profits. Cynical me says they're unloading in whatever channel they can. Beware 1st gen buyers. I do believe this will improve and there is a use case for Windows in education obviously but I know that early Surface adopters will be burned.

    Do you really believe that the surface will ever get to gen 2?

    Ha! The Surface is being Sinofskyed!
  • Reply 54 of 94
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Mmmm...

    Sometime, RSN, Turkey is supposed to award the bid for the Fatih Project -- starting with an initial 11 Million tablets for Elementary School, followed by 2 million per year.

    http://www.invest.gov.tr/en-US/infocenter/news/Pages/200513-turkey-fatih-project-tender-process-start.aspx

    And Ballmer has expressed willingness to do [almost] anything to be part of the awards (I can't locate the exact quote".

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-government-project-lures-tech-giants-microsoft.aspx?pageID=238&nid=41799


    I think Sammy (and maybe others) was awarded a preliminary bid -- but that, apparently, didn't go well. So MS may try to give away their inferior solution...

    Those first-graders are really going to love that Ribbon Menu!

    Not going to happen where I'm at. The kids starting school this Fall (Kindergarten) all have experience and learning tools, games, etc. on their iPads. My nephew started at 3, and just about his entire class in pre-school has access to iPads from their parents these days.

    Considering the speed at which I've seen my nephew and his friends rip around on an iPad... may I venture to say that I think this "game" is all but over, and that very possibly those kids with early access to iPads, might just be the smartest at this age that I have ever seen!
  • Reply 55 of 94
    customtbcustomtb Posts: 336member
    Microsoft makes a tablet?
  • Reply 56 of 94

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by facethefire View Post



    If Microsoft really wants to differentiate from Apple then implement the file-system and other legacy windows features in metro. Give us all the power a PC has in metro and do away with the stupid desktop mode for heavens sake. Apple seems to have their philosophy but MS doesn't seem to have any clear vision at all. It keeps saying BS about surface being a real computer but I don't see how RT is better than iPad in anyway. Sure ,the OS is better in some ways like multitasking but that's it. Implement the file system in metro ,implement every desktop feature in metro and give us all the control METRO ! Then it might be able to stand up to the ipad instead of aping it.


    Why?


     


    does "Skate to where the puck will be...." mean anything to you...


     


    if the 'real world' is moving away from file systems and legacy windows...  why should a 4th grader or a English major even care?  By the time they 'buy' their device, they'll be thrust into a world of 'app based storage' and cloud computing, and they'll have no skills to operate in the real world.


     


    File systems are out the door.  As are Floppy disks, and PS/2 keyboards (or do you still have those too?;-)


     


    Content Management (keyword based) is what the masses want and need.   Yes, there may be file systems underneath it all.


     


    Give 'us' means "Give the 5% of the world who spent years making our lives align to WinTel a reason to migrate to metro"   


    Now 5% of 7Billion is a lot, and it's a massive installed base when you navel gaze.... but 95% of 7Billion... That 19x more than 'a lot'


     


    The problem is the other 95% are buying iOS and android.

  • Reply 57 of 94
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    BTW... this from 9to5Mac:

    [B]Team behind iPad App of the Year 2012 gets $15m backing for ‘Office suite of the future’[/B]

    I also think the next "killer" office Suite will be in the Cloud... and probably iCloud at that. Some of the functionality that was shown during WWDC with iWork and a browser comes to mind.

    Actually... MS has the right idea and foretold this event taking place. They just haven't been able to execute correctly now for years. Also, they're developing "scared and fearful" rather than from their very own convictions and internal knowledge of what's transpiring. Not good.

    Other than certain business processes using MS Office, why is it that it needs to be taught in school anyway? It truthfully is specialty software, and probably needs to be relearned anyway at a job, depending on the specialty processes and workflows the company uses. IMO, not much different than electrical or machine engineering.

    Oh... and then there's this from the DOJ trial why Office and Windows is not needed:

    [QUOTE]
    [I]Daring Fireball by John Gruber[/I]
    [B][SIZE=4]Least Surprising Tidbit From Apple-DOJ E-Book Trial[/SIZE][/B]

    Brian X. Chen, reporting for the NYT from the e-book price-fixing trial:

    Both parties showed their evidence on a projector screen. Apple’s legal team used a MacBook to shuffle between evidence documents, stacking them side by side in split screens and zooming in on specific paragraphs.

    In contrast, the Justice Department’s lawyers could show only one piece of evidence at a time. One video that Mr. Buterman played as evidence failed to produce the audio commentary needed to make his point..[/QUOTE]

    Kids DO need to learn to be creative, but not necessarily how to "wing it" when your preso or computer "burns" ya...:smokey:
  • Reply 58 of 94
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    OK... I tried to fix the URL in the above post, but AI refuses to take, and instead truncates the URL.... hmmm!....:no:
  • Reply 59 of 94

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post





    I think you've hit it...Apple has the iOS ecosystem and Microsoft doesn't and never will. They're too late to the party and will never catch up no matter what they do in this space. They'd be better off trying to find the next big thing past a tablet and start working on it for a few years rather than following suit with everyone else trying to beat Apple at its own game.


     


    iOS has a massive lead in apps, but you cannot say they don't have an ecosystem when they do.  Immature, yes.  But with a massive desktop user base and growing set of tablets (I remember a 7% last quarter figure), I'm not sure I'd write them out of the history books yet.


     


    In the education market, which is what this article is about, Apple has the resources and clear dominance though which is why they are dumping into this market.

  • Reply 60 of 94
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    They aren't that bad (if you get one for free), but they certainly aren't worth paying for.  Your plan to use a Surface RT for Word might have a glitch however, in that the thing is so slow one can type faster than the processor can put words on the screen, which gives you a really weird "out of time" feeling when trying to use it.  It might be okay for kids to type on, but anyone who can touch type will be able to easily outpace the processor.  


     


    To be fair, the iPad mini has this same problem to a lesser degree.  If you use Pages a lot and type fast, you can fairly easily move your fingers faster than the keyboard is able to register them.  For instance, it's easy to type short words like "the" so fast, that all that registers on the screen is "e".  Depending on memory conditions you can sometimes get off two or three words before the system realises you are typing. 


     


    It also has a sort of quasi-memoryleak in that if you type a large block of text with Pages on iOS, the cursor and the typing will get slower and slower as the system memory fills up, eventually forcing you to back out and let the app save your work before continuing.  


     


    This is all down to the very, very, very limited system memory on the iPad mini which should hopefully be fixed on the next version.  



     


     


    The hardware itself is made quite well so if my only needs were those outlined, I would use one if it were given to me as a gift. I might even pay a hundred dollars for one.  I honestly think Microsoft has three problems. First, Apple has an established market in business, consumer, and education. Second, the Windows marketing is horrible. People used Windows because they thought they had to do so. Why use it for a device you want to have fun on? Further, if you think you are buying a Windows device, you might think you can actually run Windows apps. Yet, Microsoft calls all its Surface devices Windows devices. I honestly would have called the Mobile OS Metro. Alternatively, I would have tried to leverage the X Box 360 brand. Although, Sony looks like it might mount a comeback with the PS4 over the XBox One. Third, software. It is problematic when you have to pay developers to design for your ecosystem. Again it should have tried to tie the 360 into the enticement for developers. 


     


    As for slow typing, I can see that being a minor problem on the iPad Mini. The processor is fast enough for what it needs to do most of the time, but it can get taxed sometimes. That is what you get when you are trying to bring a compelling product to market at a certain price point. Apple will likely have to up the processor in the next version to drive a Retina Display. iOS is supposed to have better memory management as well. 

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