[quote name="enature" url="/t/158188/cook-incentivizes-his-1m-restricted-stock-unit-payout-as-top-brass-net-86-5m-in-share-selloff#post_2350784"]Cook never had guts to increase iPhone's screen to a size that would make it easy to use for the majority.[/QUOTE]
That's just stupid enough to be funny.
[QUOTE]Cook failed to make iCloud reliable.[/QUOTE]
That's just stupid.
[QUOTE]Cook is a spreadsheet master who has no understanding of products.[/QUOTE]
[I]You[/I] are just stupid.
[QUOTE]Cook failed to revitalize iOS.[/QUOTE]
And also blind. Reads like a poem, dunnit?
[QUOTE]Did you see the last Keynote? Shameful DISASTER![/QUOTE]
I hear a lot of Cook bashing and defense on this thread. I won't try to prove who's right and wrong but I'm just throwing the fact out there. From June 22, 2012 to June 21, 2013, Apple share has slid 27%, trailing 98% of the companies in S&P500, and pretty much on par with JC Penny (-29%). Had this agreement been in effect a year earlier, Tim Cook would have gotten only 50% of his RSU today.
You can make your arguments about why a successful company like Apple gets the same whipping as the troubled retailer: Wall Street manipulation, lack of innovation, clueless Tim Cook, etc. Pick your side, I'm not partaking in the debate.
However, given the management's team lack luster performance (stock-price wise), I think a fair compensation would be somewhere around 10% of the RSU granted. 50% just seems too generous to me.
Unfortunately, most local Cook zealots will slam you here. They are so out of touch with the reality that they will keep defending Cook even when AAPL hits $300.
Cook never had guts to increase iPhone's screen to a size that would make it easy to use for the majority.
Cook failed to make iCloud reliable.
Cook is a spreadsheet master who has no understanding of products.
Cook failed to revitalize iOS.
Jobs chose 3.5"/4". Oh and the majority wants it? Interesting the 5 is still #1.
Jobs had MobileMe.
Jobs created iOS.
And I seem to remember Jobs touting copy/paste a year or so after the iPhone was released.
Oh it really would take an Apple fanatic to equate one's parents to two company executives. It's not 'like' at all.
It was simply a binary choice question. Like flipping a coin, you don't get to choose both.
No, jungmark's right. Your fun little binary 'hypothetical postulate' is trivializing an existential matter of importance. If you don't like the parents example, it's like asking, which would you rather do without, your testicles or your right arm? (I know, don't tell me, you're left-handed.)
I don't think you guys over there realize that Apple is seen, unconsciously or not, as the antidote for all the crimes against the consumer commited by American business over the past 65 years. Or longer, I'm just talking post-war. Things like tail fins on cars, planned obsolescence, TV consoles from hell, that sort of crime.
If Apple fails, an entire process of redemption for Western capitalism fails. We ought not to play mind games with this.
Jobs chose 3.5"/4". Oh and the majority wants it? Interesting the 5 is still #1.
Jobs had MobileMe.
Jobs created iOS.
And I seem to remember Jobs touting copy/paste a year or so after the iPhone was released.
You guys ought to think deeper. The fact that Jobs chose small screen in 2007-2010, does not mean he would stay loyal to it in 2012. Jobs didn't give a shit to what he said yesterday, let alone years ago. Jobs loyalty was to one thing - and one thing only - make Apple products easiest in use.
So, in 2007, a small size phone was the best choice - easy to hold to your ear.
But iPhone's success - a revolutionary success - redefined the very purpose of the phone. People started to interact more with the screen but talk less. Larger phones became easier to use.
It is this subtle difference in consumers' preference that makes all the difference. A good CEO should be able to perceive it and act on it. Jobs had vision and balls to do it. Cook has neither.
In 2012 it was just gutless to keep it at 4", in 2013 it is stupid. In 2014.... if Cook still keeps it at 4", the board will fire him.
The same applies to iCloud. Yes, Apple always sucked at syncing - it sucked during Jobs (iDisk anyone?). But it was forgivable in the pre-Dropbox era. Now having unreliable cloud service is criminal. Cook does not understand it. Jobs would fire and hire people, shout and curse, but he would have it - by now iCloud would work.
Cook keeps saying "We want to make the best products." Sadly, he does not understand what "the best" means.
People can keep blaming Wall Street, trolls, crooks, shareholders, consumers, and Samsung; and Cook can incentivize his awards all he wants... but soon AAPL will see $3XX price.
Meanwhile Redmond's entire mobile effort has been a complete disaster. They're essentially a non-starter in the market, and it's been nearly three years of Windows Phone already (since October 2010.)
With AAPL share plummeting 10% in 2 days from historic lows during a stock buyback period, Cook obviously believes AAPL shares are worth less under his cockeyed misguided leadership.
Cook never had guts to increase iPhone's screen to a size that would make it easy to use for the majority.
Cook failed to make iCloud reliable.
Cook is a spreadsheet master who has no understanding of products.
Cook failed to revitalize iOS.
Did you see the last Keynote? Shameful DISASTER! Craig Federighi introduced "swipe for the control pannel" and "moving photo backgrounds" like something radically new. Can you imagine Steve Jobs presenting this old shit that has been on Android for months if not years? Or... Flat Design? Have Apple execs ever played with Windows 8?
Steve Jobs would fire people on the spot rather than put this Apple mockery on the worldwide display.
Are Apple Execs living in some kind of bubble and do not see where the world, the competitors, and consumer trends are? It used to be that Apple defined consumer trends, now Apple desperately tries to catch up and fails.
But who cares? As AAPL price continues to melt, Cook zealots will keep singing praises to this inept and gutless CEO.
First, I don't believe stock price is a good indicator of a company's success or failure as the stock market is an utter gamble based on the unstable emotions of investors/speculators and the wildly unpredictable events of the outside world.
Second, Cook never increased the iPhone's screen size because he's only been in charge since after the finalization of the iPhone 5. You clearly have no grasp of recent history.
I can't comment on iCloud as I don't use or follow the service extensively enough.
Third, how can you say Cook has no understanding of products. You are talking about the man in charge of building Apple's supply chain for all of their products from the ground up! I think he understands products very, VERY well. If you mean to say he's not the visionary to lead the company's future product development, I think that's a bit of soothsaying to me. I don't think he's been in the position long enough for anyone to know either way, not to mention he still has amazingly bright people underneath him.
Fourth, did you even watch the Keynote? iOS looks pretty revitalized to me. Whether you like the new look and feel of iOS 7 is a matter of opinion, not a fact for the general populace. Again, you have no grasp of recent history. Steve Jobs, himself, introduced Notification Center as if it was new when Android had it for quite some time. They did the same thing with many features years before Cook ever took the helm. From what you're saying, Jobs would've had to fire himself!
And with all of your points refuted, your conclusion is worthless.
Cook zealots can keep blaming Wall Street, trolls, crooks, shareholders, consumers, and Samsung; and Cook can incentivize his awards all he wants... but soon AAPL will see $3XX price.
rkevwill is right. When RSUs vest, the original value of the shares is treated like ordinary income... it's just given to you in the form of stock. So you owe taxes on that value immediately, just like regular pay. It gets a little more complicated, because if the stock went up or down since the grant date, the difference is treated as a capital gain when you sell it.
Typically when RSUs vest, the recipient doesn't even have a choice: a portion of the stock is automatically sold just to cover the taxes. When you look at that filing, you can see that Tim Cook acquired 80,000 shares and sold about 41,000 shares on the same day. My guess is that this was an automatic sale by the brokerage, and 100% of the proceeds will go to fed & state taxes (and fees to the brokerage).
So, the real question, is why not sell all of it? Two possibilities: 1. He really does have incredible faith that the stock is undervalued, so no reason to sell now. 2. He wants the preferential tax treatment for long-term capital gains. If he sells now, the increase in value is taxed at the top tax rates. If he waits a year, that split gets will get taxed at the lower long-term capital gains rates.
What if he does sell the rest? Does that mean he's lost faith? The short answer is no. Think about it this way: if they gave Tim Cook a $17m cash bonus, would you expect him to turn around and use that cash to buy more Apple stock? Especially knowing that he's got a 10-year incentive plan to receive more stock from the company? Of course not. Any financial advisor would tell you (whether you're rich or not) that it's insane to invest all of your current finances in one company, especially if that company is also your employer (the company that you're relying on for your future finances).
Finally, if you look at the details of the story, Cook is actually making his future stock grants even more dependent on the company's performance, signaling that he has confidence in the continued success of the company.
It appears you want to go out again in a blaze of glory. One can only hope next time it will stick. If the comments you were replying to were that stupid why not argue the facts and make a cogent and well reasoned argument instead of personal attacks and telling him to shut up and go away?
I also disagree with his comments. For one I think Tim Cook has given the strongest indication yet that he will release a larger iPhone by stating that it will happen when no compromises need to be made. That clearly suggest it will happen once the parts are in place. Before they always said that 3.5" then 4" were the perfect size. iCloud has had some issues but so has every other cloud service. It is improving all the time. Tim Cook also oversaw the biggest change to iOS since the iPhone was released so his comment was baseless. He is a numbers guy but also has managed to take over as CEO and do an admirable job considering the overall economy. It is unreasonable to expect him to have kept those inflated $700 share prices. He has done everything he could to stabilize and maintain shareholder value. The recent dip had more to do with Bernanke's announcement than Apple.
That is how forums work. When you disagree with someone you argue the facts and logic to support your opinion. You don't call them stupid and tell them to shut up and go away.
Hardly a threat, merely a prediction. I am not a moderator and neither are you. I don't make the calls as to who stays or who gets banned. I was simply pointing out that instead of calling people stupid and telling them to shut up and go away why not attack their statements or opinions with your own like I did in my post. Just a suggestion that if you want people to take your posts seriously and not be viewed as trolling why not stop the personal attacks and actually engage in a mature conversation for a change.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Keep Both. That's like saying who would you keep: your mom or your dad.
Oh it really would take an Apple fanatic to equate one's parents to two company executives. It's not 'like' at all.
It was simply a binary choice question. Like flipping a coin, you don't get to choose both.
That's just stupid enough to be funny.
[QUOTE]Cook failed to make iCloud reliable.[/QUOTE]
That's just stupid.
[QUOTE]Cook is a spreadsheet master who has no understanding of products.[/QUOTE]
[I]You[/I] are just stupid.
[QUOTE]Cook failed to revitalize iOS.[/QUOTE]
And also blind. Reads like a poem, dunnit?
[QUOTE]Did you see the last Keynote? Shameful DISASTER![/QUOTE]
Find another company to whine about.
And why not? Apple chose both and it'll keep both.
I hear a lot of Cook bashing and defense on this thread. I won't try to prove who's right and wrong but I'm just throwing the fact out there. From June 22, 2012 to June 21, 2013, Apple share has slid 27%, trailing 98% of the companies in S&P500, and pretty much on par with JC Penny (-29%). Had this agreement been in effect a year earlier, Tim Cook would have gotten only 50% of his RSU today.
You can make your arguments about why a successful company like Apple gets the same whipping as the troubled retailer: Wall Street manipulation, lack of innovation, clueless Tim Cook, etc. Pick your side, I'm not partaking in the debate.
However, given the management's team lack luster performance (stock-price wise), I think a fair compensation would be somewhere around 10% of the RSU granted. 50% just seems too generous to me.
Jobs had MobileMe.
Jobs created iOS.
And I seem to remember Jobs touting copy/paste a year or so after the iPhone was released.
No, jungmark's right. Your fun little binary 'hypothetical postulate' is trivializing an existential matter of importance. If you don't like the parents example, it's like asking, which would you rather do without, your testicles or your right arm? (I know, don't tell me, you're left-handed.)
I don't think you guys over there realize that Apple is seen, unconsciously or not, as the antidote for all the crimes against the consumer commited by American business over the past 65 years. Or longer, I'm just talking post-war. Things like tail fins on cars, planned obsolescence, TV consoles from hell, that sort of crime.
If Apple fails, an entire process of redemption for Western capitalism fails. We ought not to play mind games with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Jobs chose 3.5"/4". Oh and the majority wants it? Interesting the 5 is still #1.
Jobs had MobileMe.
Jobs created iOS.
And I seem to remember Jobs touting copy/paste a year or so after the iPhone was released.
You guys ought to think deeper. The fact that Jobs chose small screen in 2007-2010, does not mean he would stay loyal to it in 2012. Jobs didn't give a shit to what he said yesterday, let alone years ago. Jobs loyalty was to one thing - and one thing only - make Apple products easiest in use.
So, in 2007, a small size phone was the best choice - easy to hold to your ear.
But iPhone's success - a revolutionary success - redefined the very purpose of the phone. People started to interact more with the screen but talk less. Larger phones became easier to use.
It is this subtle difference in consumers' preference that makes all the difference. A good CEO should be able to perceive it and act on it. Jobs had vision and balls to do it. Cook has neither.
In 2012 it was just gutless to keep it at 4", in 2013 it is stupid. In 2014.... if Cook still keeps it at 4", the board will fire him.
The same applies to iCloud. Yes, Apple always sucked at syncing - it sucked during Jobs (iDisk anyone?). But it was forgivable in the pre-Dropbox era. Now having unreliable cloud service is criminal. Cook does not understand it. Jobs would fire and hire people, shout and curse, but he would have it - by now iCloud would work.
Cook keeps saying "We want to make the best products." Sadly, he does not understand what "the best" means.
People can keep blaming Wall Street, trolls, crooks, shareholders, consumers, and Samsung; and Cook can incentivize his awards all he wants... but soon AAPL will see $3XX price.
Meanwhile Redmond's entire mobile effort has been a complete disaster. They're essentially a non-starter in the market, and it's been nearly three years of Windows Phone already (since October 2010.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by enature
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web
With AAPL share plummeting 10% in 2 days from historic lows during a stock buyback period, Cook obviously believes AAPL shares are worth less under his cockeyed misguided leadership.
Cook never had guts to increase iPhone's screen to a size that would make it easy to use for the majority.
Cook failed to make iCloud reliable.
Cook is a spreadsheet master who has no understanding of products.
Cook failed to revitalize iOS.
Did you see the last Keynote? Shameful DISASTER! Craig Federighi introduced "swipe for the control pannel" and "moving photo backgrounds" like something radically new. Can you imagine Steve Jobs presenting this old shit that has been on Android for months if not years? Or... Flat Design? Have Apple execs ever played with Windows 8?
Steve Jobs would fire people on the spot rather than put this Apple mockery on the worldwide display.
Are Apple Execs living in some kind of bubble and do not see where the world, the competitors, and consumer trends are? It used to be that Apple defined consumer trends, now Apple desperately tries to catch up and fails.
But who cares? As AAPL price continues to melt, Cook zealots will keep singing praises to this inept and gutless CEO.
First, I don't believe stock price is a good indicator of a company's success or failure as the stock market is an utter gamble based on the unstable emotions of investors/speculators and the wildly unpredictable events of the outside world.
Second, Cook never increased the iPhone's screen size because he's only been in charge since after the finalization of the iPhone 5. You clearly have no grasp of recent history.
I can't comment on iCloud as I don't use or follow the service extensively enough.
Third, how can you say Cook has no understanding of products. You are talking about the man in charge of building Apple's supply chain for all of their products from the ground up! I think he understands products very, VERY well. If you mean to say he's not the visionary to lead the company's future product development, I think that's a bit of soothsaying to me. I don't think he's been in the position long enough for anyone to know either way, not to mention he still has amazingly bright people underneath him.
Fourth, did you even watch the Keynote? iOS looks pretty revitalized to me. Whether you like the new look and feel of iOS 7 is a matter of opinion, not a fact for the general populace. Again, you have no grasp of recent history. Steve Jobs, himself, introduced Notification Center as if it was new when Android had it for quite some time. They did the same thing with many features years before Cook ever took the helm. From what you're saying, Jobs would've had to fire himself!
And with all of your points refuted, your conclusion is worthless.
Maybe we just have to think deeper.
That's the problem: they don't. That's why they win.
Yet they type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enature
Cook zealots can keep blaming Wall Street, trolls, crooks, shareholders, consumers, and Samsung; and Cook can incentivize his awards all he wants... but soon AAPL will see $3XX price.
And?
Typically when RSUs vest, the recipient doesn't even have a choice: a portion of the stock is automatically sold just to cover the taxes. When you look at that filing, you can see that Tim Cook acquired 80,000 shares and sold about 41,000 shares on the same day. My guess is that this was an automatic sale by the brokerage, and 100% of the proceeds will go to fed & state taxes (and fees to the brokerage).
So, the real question, is why not sell all of it? Two possibilities:
1. He really does have incredible faith that the stock is undervalued, so no reason to sell now.
2. He wants the preferential tax treatment for long-term capital gains. If he sells now, the increase in value is taxed at the top tax rates. If he waits a year, that split gets will get taxed at the lower long-term capital gains rates.
What if he does sell the rest? Does that mean he's lost faith?
The short answer is no. Think about it this way: if they gave Tim Cook a $17m cash bonus, would you expect him to turn around and use that cash to buy more Apple stock? Especially knowing that he's got a 10-year incentive plan to receive more stock from the company? Of course not. Any financial advisor would tell you (whether you're rich or not) that it's insane to invest all of your current finances in one company, especially if that company is also your employer (the company that you're relying on for your future finances).
Finally, if you look at the details of the story, Cook is actually making his future stock grants even more dependent on the company's performance, signaling that he has confidence in the continued success of the company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's just stupid enough to be funny.
That's just stupid.
You are just stupid.
And also blind. Reads like a poem, dunnit?
Find another company to whine about.
Shut up and go away, you useless troll.
It appears you want to go out again in a blaze of glory. One can only hope next time it will stick. If the comments you were replying to were that stupid why not argue the facts and make a cogent and well reasoned argument instead of personal attacks and telling him to shut up and go away?
I also disagree with his comments. For one I think Tim Cook has given the strongest indication yet that he will release a larger iPhone by stating that it will happen when no compromises need to be made. That clearly suggest it will happen once the parts are in place. Before they always said that 3.5" then 4" were the perfect size. iCloud has had some issues but so has every other cloud service. It is improving all the time. Tim Cook also oversaw the biggest change to iOS since the iPhone was released so his comment was baseless. He is a numbers guy but also has managed to take over as CEO and do an admirable job considering the overall economy. It is unreasonable to expect him to have kept those inflated $700 share prices. He has done everything he could to stabilize and maintain shareholder value. The recent dip had more to do with Bernanke's announcement than Apple.
That is how forums work. When you disagree with someone you argue the facts and logic to support your opinion. You don't call them stupid and tell them to shut up and go away.
Just to be clear... is that a threat?
Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Just to be clear... is that a threat?
Good luck.
Hardly a threat, merely a prediction. I am not a moderator and neither are you. I don't make the calls as to who stays or who gets banned. I was simply pointing out that instead of calling people stupid and telling them to shut up and go away why not attack their statements or opinions with your own like I did in my post. Just a suggestion that if you want people to take your posts seriously and not be viewed as trolling why not stop the personal attacks and actually engage in a mature conversation for a change.