IDC: Apple's iPhone sheds European marketshare in Q1, pushed out of top 5 in India

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  • Reply 41 of 108
    poksipoksi Posts: 481member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


     


    Have you used Autolayout much? My experience is that it's of limited use in iOS 6. It's incredibly CPU intensive.



     


    Depends heavily on number of constraints and their connection between. Unfortunately, there is no way to speed this up, since you cannot calculate sizes at compile time assuming interfaces will be static.


     


    prior to Autolayouts I used my own layout code in form of easy macros. Very similar to NSLayoutConstraint, but less powerful and simpler. I changed now almost everything to Autolayouts. I sense Apple has some other plans with it as well...

  • Reply 42 of 108
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    IDC estimates....yawn.  Is there anyway to validate if IDC's estimates are accurate?



     


    Depends on whether or not you believe what Apple says, since Apple itself quoted IDC extensively in their last earnings call:


     


    Quote:


    Take the smartphone market for example, IDC estimates that this market will double between 2012 and 2016 to an incredible 1.4 billion units annually, and Gartner estimates that the tablet market is growing at an even faster rate from 125 million units in 2012 to a projected 375 million by 2016.


    ...


     


    And in Japan, IDC Japan announced that iPhone gained the number one position for all of calendar year 2012 as well as for calendar Q4 2012 in both handsets and smartphones.


    ...


    Around the world, based on its latest published estimates, IDC ranked iPhone number one or two in smartphone sales in over half the countries IDC tracks.


    ...


    Turning to Mac, we sold just under 4 million Macs, which is a 2% decline from the year-ago quarter. IDC estimates that the global personal computer market contracted by 14% during the March quarter.


    Peter Oppenheimer Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer




     


    Quote:


    First let me start with the tablet side, the numbers that we’ve seen from IDC would indicate that they believe the market in March declined by 30% from December, December being obviously seasonally high quarter with a holiday. As you can see from our numbers, we declined 15%. 


    ...


    I think the reason that we were down last quarter, we were down 2% as you had mentioned. The market for PCs are incredibly weak.  IDC said that the market for the March quarter was down 14% year-on-year, which is the largest decline that I remember from being in this industry for a long time.


     


    Tim Cook Chief Executive Officer




     


    They also quoted Gartner, comScore, and Kantar, where things were positive.


     


    As the for numbers, I wouldn't trust anyone's future estimates past a few months.  However, current and past estimates are usually pretty good, since they're able to do more checks on them, using information released by the companies.


     


    The upshot is, people tend to agree with estimates they like, and disagree with those they don't.  So it goes.

  • Reply 43 of 108
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    vadania wrote: »
    Well, when I was 8, I learned Cobal.  My father thought it was fun because I had to keep running to the computer with a punch card.  Lots of fond, extremely vague memories.

    When I was nine I learned Pascal.  Not so much of a sentimental memory there.  Just my father teaching me.

    When I was ten I learned Basic.  Honestly, still no real memories other than the programming that I remember.  I got my dad a beer a few times, which he called "drinks" back then.

    When I was twelve I learned "C".  At this point they all seemed to be the same, just different wordings.  I also learned BW-Basic, and CBasic.

    When I was 13 I learned Post Script and Objective C.

    Between 14 and 18 dear old dad made me learn C++, Turbo Pascal and Object Pascal.  I didn't really want to be with dad at this time.  Odd when I look back...

    Then I went to school, and just about everything since then has been a derivative of one of those languages.

    While you speak to me as immature, that is totally possible.  I wasn't looking for a needle in a hey stack.  If you want I'll comb further.  I'm also not learned as I should be.  However when I ask a question I usually get a berating answer, or I get labeled as a troll in response to my question or opinion.

    I'll not post to your genius part, that just rude.

    My OPINION still stands.  It's incrementally easier to develop for Android than it is for iOS.  I'm amazed I actually have to spell this out on this site.

    Also, for your information, I did not go into any computer field after school.

    Eclipse does actually support Vector based graphical drawings.  Honestly, Android is actually easier to write for, but graphically it's not going to look the same.  I have no graphic skill.  Vector based is easier than pixel based.  So I could make a bare bones app that will work on Android and will be stretched along different displays.  On iOS it would just look horrible.  Honestly I've never tried to sell an app, but I have quite a few really good ideas!  :)

    Just haven't gotten there and I don't have the monetary need.

    So on a time-line, that makes you what? A ~50 year old Jackass! (Name-calling is so much fun! :p )

    Actually... it very well could be easier to develop for specific devices and screen sizes of Android. But why is it that a universal App is almost impossible, and that the Android apps are "almost always" across the board, worse than those same apps on iOS? Could it be the "ease of developing"? Or rather because of a process called "watered-down and lowest common denominator?

    We regulars on AI are aware of the fragmentation issue on Android, that niggling little thing that Android developers like to sweep under the rug all of the time. Whispers are heard about it on forums, but I can only dreadfully imagine the cacophony of endless moaning and cursing coming from the 1000's of basements around the world...:smokey:

    "Hey"... your stack is on fire but your HAYSTACK needs it's dickweed...uh... needle back!
  • Reply 44 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    kdarling wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.231;">Depends on whether or not you believe whatever Apple says, since they</span>
    <span style="line-height:1.231;"> themselves quoted IDC extensively in their last earnings call:</span>





    They also quoted Gartner, comScore, and Kantar.

    <p style="margin-top:11px;font-family:Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;font-size:14.44444465637207px;line-height:22.447917938232422px;"> </p>

    As the for numbers, I wouldn't trust anyone's future estimates past a few months.  However, current and past estimates are usually pretty good.
    I don't trust them even though Apple quotes them. I'm assuming Apple quotes these figures because that's all there is (no other OEM consistently provides sales/shipment figures). But I believe it was IDC (or a similar firm) that claimed Windows phone would be second in market share (behind Android) by 2014. So I don't put a lot of stock in these figures because there's no way to validate them and they can be wildly off and it does t matter as media, Wall Street etc. will continue to quote their figures whenever they come out.
  • Reply 45 of 108
    nelsonxnelsonx Posts: 278member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poksi View Post


     


     


    - I originate from Slovenia, I can buy there music and TV shows all within negotiated IP right for the particular country or region


    - I can also buy everything else from other services stores


    - we pay shit load of more money for everything else as well. This is called "oil-dollar" policy from Nixon's office further...:))   S4 actually costs more than iPhone 5


    - I have voice guidance in native language in my navigation app as well, but I agree, everything originate from Apple has limited localization


    - Maps are problem in general, not just in Europe. However, while content and accuracy may grow in the future, solid technology foundations are laid and are superior to google's


     


    I'm not downplaying your problems, I want just to point out situation is not the same from country to country. In Germany and Austria your problems hardly exists, but Apple is still loosing market share there, so the reasons are different.





    I'm from Romania and I can't buy movies or TV shows from Apple, only music and apps. I can not even use two step authentication from Apple, but I can use it from Google! The iPhone 5 16Gb is 350 Euro with 2 years 51 Euro monthly contract and S4 is 240 Euro with 2 years 49 Euro monthly contract.


     


    http://www.orange.ro/iphone/


     


    Also, keep in mind that the average monthly income is 300-400 euro in Romania (much lower in India by the way). That's equivalent with an iPhone 5 being 2000$-3000$ in USA, right? How many americans would buy iphones at that price?

  • Reply 46 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


    Any chance you could post a pic of the add?  Honestly just because I'm curious.



     


    Sure, once I get home I could scan it and post it here.

  • Reply 47 of 108
    poksipoksi Posts: 481member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post





    I'm afraid it still won't stem the sales of "good enough" here in Europe.

    Great post poksi! More comments below.



    @Vadania - no. Poksi is no shill, and I concur with his very well written post of the situation here in Europe.



    I don't recognize your name here, but just FYI I'm a so-called Apple Fanboy and proud of it. So stating these facts of the market situation here does not necessarily make me happy.



    For many of the reasons that poksi wrote above, such as "texting, Facebook, and WhatsApp" being the primary usage of all mobiles in Europe, buying an iPhone at any "premium" price is not going to work.... regardless of the size screen. It's why I think that an inexpensive iPhone also won't do the trick and is unnecessary. The majority of people in Europe just don't use their mobiles like people in the States do. Including amazingly enough, that they could care less about the weather and many still prefer dedicated maps devices rather than Google Maps.



    For the above people that I run across and that ask me, I suggest a middle of the road Android (like who cares... in my eyes they're all crap including the so-called "premiums"... but whatever) with a cheap PAYG no-contract SIM.



    By saving them money, I then talk them into an iPad Mini or iPad for the times that they don't want to see and type on their little phone (which would include an iPhone as well).



    The mobile market is saturated and unprofitable in the middle and bottom end. Whereas the top end with the current iPhone and any future iPhones will be purchased by those that want and need it's extended features, and for those things like apps to really work smoothly, fast and efficiently. Business users actually. Who BTW are my clients with iPhones. All of my clients have iPhones for just those reasons. Their kids and wife: Droids. it's cheaper and not a business expense write-off.



    Apple's biggest future IMHO is pushing the iPad, in both software, features, capabilities and price-points.


     


    I do agree almost completely. The only thing I would add is that I believe Apple can make mid-priced phone also profitable. I may be wrong, but let Apple shows us. I still believe most of Android manufacturers haven't got a clue about what makes them profitable or not. Apple is specialist at that.


     


    Anyway, thanks to understand what I was trying to say and thanks for points with arguments.

  • Reply 48 of 108
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    @ Vadania - read and weap... or head on over The Pond and offer them your expertise on the matter. ;)

    [SIZE=4][B][URL=http://www.zdnet.com/bbc-iplayer-boss-it-will-never-be-as-easy-to-develop-for-android-as-apple-7000009013/]BBC iPlayer boss: 'It will never be as easy to develop for Android as Apple'[/URL][/B][/SIZE]
  • Reply 49 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


    Any chance you could post a pic of the add?  Honestly just because I'm curious.



     


    Edit: Double post.

  • Reply 50 of 108
    nelsonxnelsonx Posts: 278member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    IDC estimates....yawn.  Is there anyway to validate if IDC's estimates are accurate?





    Yes it is! Look at the AAPL price!

  • Reply 51 of 108
    froodfrood Posts: 771member


    In a nutshell, "Apple phones are expensive.  Expensive products don't sell as well as less expensive ones, especially in areas where people are price sensitive."


     


    Subsidies allow Apple to compete in the US, but if carriers move away from subsidies in the US would the iPhone do as well selling at $550-$650 where Android phones were selling @ $400-450?  I think that is going to be the trend to watch as T-mobile is moving away from subsidies.  If because of that they can offer substantially lower rates, Android users will migrate to them.  That would leave the other carriers with a higher percentage of Apple users, and forced to keep their prices high in order to be profitable with the increasing amount of subsidies they pay.  Could be a downward spiral.


     


    In other news, expensive products may not sell as well- but are often very very good.  The iPhone is a great phone regardless of market share or AAPL stock price.

  • Reply 52 of 108
    jgutherjguther Posts: 97member


    Many times it's really quite simple:


     


    Those who can afford an iPhone, buy an iPhone.


    Those who can't, buy an Android phone.


     


    This is why Apple has most of the profits, and this is why they couldn't care less about market share.


     


     


    Funny, those brain-dead analysts never complain about Moët & Chandon having lower market share in beverages than Anheuser-Busch...


     


    Yeah, I think Moët should come up with some real cheap champagne in cans so they can sell more cans than Budweiser image

  • Reply 53 of 108
    mudman2mudman2 Posts: 54member


    As an industrial admin I would just like to comment that the problems of deploying cross platform to iOS and Android cannot be underestimated.


     


    Especially now that carriers are stepping in to further fragment the market from the current 30 or so variants increasing to a about 72 versions of Android we have to attempt to deal with and provide support to


     


    We do not dictate what our contractors use but I have observed more or less a standard flow based on 2 years experience now


     


    At first the contractors gravitate to the lowest cost devices, as you would expect, but then once they get a couple of weeks sharing information between each other a 50% return the Androids and replace with the more expensive iDevices due to usability issues with what is essentially the same application


     


    Pretty telling really even tho the software developers prefer to develop for Android since they can put lower level people on those versions.


     


    Size is not an issue, of all devices we are 75% phones (68% iPhones) 25% Tablets (80% iPad)


     


    Main issues sited behind the changes are Battery Life and Hardware Robustness

  • Reply 54 of 108
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    rayz wrote: »
    What's a "concern troll"?

    The ones that go on and on about how Apple needs to make the iPhone bigger and/or a cheaper version.
  • Reply 55 of 108
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    poksi wrote: »
    I do agree almost completely. The only thing I would add is that I believe Apple can make mid-priced phone also profitable. I may be wrong, but let Apple shows us. I still believe most of Android manufacturers haven't got a clue about what makes them profitable or not. Apple is specialist at that.

    Anyway, thanks to understand what I was trying to say and thanks for points with arguments.

    First: you're welcome :D

    As to a mid-priced iPhone: yes... Apple "could". Anything from Apple will be profitable according to their product pricing. But would it be a "profitable" vs. the brand dilution and strengthen the eco-system i.e. App Store? I don't think so.

    My experiences with Android users both young and old, are;

    a) that they don't trust (for their kids!) or want an App Store... and many don't even have credit cards;
    b) the younger ones are content sharing apps, pictures, movies and music by "SD card swapping" with their friends, and without an expensive dataplan (most are on 500mb/mo.);
    c) and something that actually is a small advantage for Droids: the ability to swap batteries thru-out the day... again kids in particular (a couple in the back-pack), because business people are more often than not closer to a charger at their desk or in their cars;
    d) it's "good enough" for their uses. This is the same argument for Windows vs. Mac. Again, I sell Macs of all kinds to my clients... but they are almost always fully loaded, just like their BMW's, Audi's and Mercedes (business expense). Their families get the middle-of-the-road HP's, Asus, and sometimes even... the bargain-basement do-everything grocery market Deal-of-the-Week.

    Hardly any company is making money on PC's... just like mobile phones, except for Apple and of late Samsung.

    For Apple specifically to get involved in that mid-to-bottom tier in computers or mobile, after so much success on the top end... would in itself be shocking. Apple has been at it's best "focusing" thru-out it's history. Samsung is profitable by flooding the market and overwhelming their competitors.

    For the above reason, I don't really see Samsung as an Apple competitor at all. Actually, Samsung should be ignored just as Apple ignored Dell and Microsoft... and just do their thing: make insanely great products. Those that value that proposition will come, just as they always have. Apple w/o counting the iPad, is still somewhere around 10-12% of the PC market. I thoroughly expect at some time near, that will be about the percentage of iPhones vs. Android "The New Feature Phone" market. Apple has steadfastly refused to reverse the PC-percentage by offering "cheap".... why should they with phones?

    One segment is owned by Apple and MUST be protected and advanced beyond reproach: iPad. No other company has it or comes close to it, in both consumer's mindset, nor surprisingly (especially for Microsoft)... in business adoption and usage. That strength and brand loyalty won't last forever, but as it stands... they have such a head start that it would really be shameful for them to lose it by concentrating their efforts on a phone market segment that doesn't value them, their eco-system, or what they stand for.

    As always... just sayin'.....;)
  • Reply 56 of 108
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,832member
    cash907 wrote: »



    No, with "that," the nay sayers who've been poo poo'ing the iPhone Light rumors have their justification to shut up.

    No because Apple doesn't play the Market Share game. Whats the profit share? In addition, iPhone sales aren't decreasing, the market is expanding quicker. Oh and if you mean "light" as in between $300 and $400 off contract , then I can see that happening.
    kdarling wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.231;">Depends on whether or not you believe what Apple says, since Apple itself</span>
    <span style="line-height:1.231;"> quoted IDC extensively in their last earnings call:</span>

    They also quoted Gartner, comScore, and Kantar, where things were positive.
    But Apple also releases actual numbers unlike the majority of its competitors.
  • Reply 57 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    The ones that go on and on about how Apple needs to make the iPhone bigger and/or a cheaper version.


    The ones who go on about lower priced iPhones ( which are inevitable as are bigger phones - the clues are in iOS 7) are "trolls".


     


    I want accusations of trolling against people who disagree others infractable on this site. In fact you guys are probably disagreeing with Apple at the moment.

  • Reply 58 of 108
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I don't trust them even though Apple quotes them.


     


    Fair enough... heck, I'm all for questioning figures... but did you question their figures when they were positive for Apple in India?  Or when Apple used them in their earnings call?  Why wait until they're negative.


     


    (Although I wouldn't really call this news negative.  It's just that in India, less expensive and/or native country designed, phones sell better.  It's not expected to be a good market for the current iPhone.)


     


    Quote:


     I'm assuming Apple quotes these figures because that's all there is (no other OEM consistently provides sales/shipment figures). 



     


    The reason why so many quote IDC (and why it stays in business) is because they've proven to be a valuable source.  Especially their figures for past sales, since they've had time to correlate them with later corporate earnings reports, store surveys and actual shipment counts from import warehouses and customs offices.


     


    In any case, if Apple uses them, then they're fair game for use in discussions.


     


    Quote:


    But I believe it was IDC (or a similar firm) that claimed Windows phone would be second in market share (behind Android) by 2014.



     


    Yep, as I said, I agree that anyone's forecasts past a few months are often junk.  Too much can happen.

  • Reply 59 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    No because Apple doesn't play the Market Share game. Whats the profit share? In addition, iPhone sales aren't decreasing, the market is expanding quicker. Oh and if you mean "light" as in between $300 and $400 off contract , then I can see that happening.

    But Apple also releases actual numbers unlike the majority of its competitors.


     


    Apple doesn't ever say anything about profit share, and as KDarling showed they talk about market share ( using IDCs numbers) when they are favorable. 


    They never claim to care about margins either, as it happens.

  • Reply 60 of 108
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,832member
    asdasd wrote: »
    The ones who go on about lower priced iPhones ( which are inevitable as are bigger phones - the clues are in iOS 7) are "trolls".

    I want accusations of trolling against people who disagree others infractable on this site. In fact you guys are probably disagreeing with Apple at the moment.

    I think you misinterpreted. The ones that say Apple is doomed unless it releases a $200 5" iPhone are "concern trolls."
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