Apple doesn't every say anything about profit share, and as a previous poster showed they talk about market share ( using IDCs numbers) when they are favorable.
They never claim to care about margins either, as it happens.
You're right, Apple doesn't claim anything about profit share. But what pays the bills: Market share or profit? Would you rather have 75% of the MS with 25% PS or 25% MS with 75% PS?
You're right, Apple doesn't claim anything about profit share. But what pays the bills: Market share or profit? Would you rather have 75% of the MS with 25% PS or 25% MS with 75% PS?
Profit isn't profit share. And Apple has plenty of money in the bank for now, to allow a margin hit ( in fact the strategy of buying stock is to hold prices up as margins fall, or - since the market has priced this in - the anticipation of margin falls - indicates they are willing to use the nest egg to do this).
And 1) profit share is falling. DED at the weekend quoted the 2012 Q1 share of 70%, it was 58% last Q. 2) When a market is commoditized and you have saturated the (declining) top percentage of that market, the only way to increase both market share and profit share is to attack the middle and low ends. This doesn't mean you can't produce a premium product at those ends, but you need to be there.
I'm from Romania and I can't buy movies or TV shows from Apple, only music and apps. I can not even use two step authentication from Apple, but I can use it from Google! The iPhone 5 16Gb is 350 Euro with 2 years 51 Euro monthly contract and S4 is 240 Euro with 2 years 49 Euro monthly contract.
Also, keep in mind that the average monthly income is 300-400 euro in Romania (much lower in India by the way). That's equivalent with an iPhone 5 being 2000$-3000$ in USA, right? How many americans would buy iphones at that price?
Apple is known to treat badly small markets. It is not only with iPhones, it's also with Macs. Sadly, but true.
As to a mid-priced iPhone: yes... Apple "could". Anything from Apple will be profitable according to their product pricing. But would it be a "profitable" vs. the brand dilution and strengthen the eco-system i.e. App Store? I don't think so.
My experiences with Android users both young and old, are;
a) that they don't trust (for their kids!) or want an App Store... and many don't even have credit cards;
b) the younger ones are content sharing apps, pictures, movies and music by "SD card swapping" with their friends, and without an expensive dataplan (most are on 500mb/mo.);
c) and something that actually is a small advantage for Droids: the ability to swap batteries thru-out the day... again kids in particular (a couple in the back-pack), because business people are more often than not closer to a charger at their desk or in their cars;
d) it's "good enough" for their uses. This is the same argument for Windows vs. Mac. Again, I sell Macs of all kinds to my clients... but they are almost always fully loaded, just like their BMW's, Audi's and Mercedes (business expense). Their families get the middle-of-the-road HP's, Asus, and sometimes even... the bargain-basement do-everything grocery market Deal-of-the-Week.
Hardly any company is making money on PC's... just like mobile phones, except for Apple and of late Samsung.
For Apple specifically to get involved in that mid-to-bottom tier in computers or mobile, after so much success on the top end... would in itself be shocking. Apple has been at it's best "focusing" thru-out it's history. Samsung is profitable by flooding the market and overwhelming their competitors.
For the above reason, I don't really see Samsung as an Apple competitor at all. Actually, Samsung should be ignored just as Apple ignored Dell and Microsoft... and just do their thing: make insanely great products. Those that value that proposition will come, just as they always have. Apple w/o counting the iPad, is still somewhere around 10-12% of the PC market. I thoroughly expect at some time near, that will be about the percentage of iPhones vs. Android "The New Feature Phone" market. Apple has steadfastly refused to reverse the PC-percentage by offering "cheap".... why should they with phones?
One segment is owned by Apple and MUST be protected and advanced beyond reproach: iPad. No other company has it or comes close to it, in both consumer's mindset, nor surprisingly (especially for Microsoft)... in business adoption and usage. That strength and brand loyalty won't last forever, but as it stands... they have such a head start that it would really be shameful for them to lose it by concentrating their efforts on a phone market segment that doesn't value them, their eco-system, or what they stand for.
As always... just sayin'.....
a) true
b) true, but this might change to new commodity of usage.
c) true, but very funny. For adult this would be alone the reason to own iPhone, but kids will be kids...
d) true as well
You may have the point here, but let me ask you: if you would have 4.6" iPhone with 9:16 ratio, would you prefer it over iPhone 5? I know I would for practical reasons.
But you might be right about not winning many new users over with it....
There aren't any as far as I can see. THere are some of us who think Apple should have other or different products and we don't think Apple is doomed in any case. However, not sharing exactly same faith as fanatic preachers on this site, then for them you are concern troll, too. As simple as that.
Its someone who cares about Apple, unlike the braindead fanboys who denies every bad news and think Apple is god and can never ever make mistakes. There is a lot of Apple worshippers here, so you are not allowed to have any views that is not pro Apple. The fanatics here have absolutly no vision whatsoever, maybe that why they worships apple in the first place.
There aren't any as far as I can see. THere are some of us who think Apple should have other or different products and we don't think Apple is doomed in any case. However, not sharing exactly same faith as fanatic preachers on this site, then for them you are concern troll, too. As simple as that.
With the amount of cash Apple has I dont think the company will ever be "doomed" in a sense it will go bankrupt. But the way the company is manage, it could quickly move to a niche market and have its shares continu to freefall has EPS continu to tank.
Apple is no longer leading the high end market in smartphone, and its missing all other segments because its completly disconnect to market changes. Apple is on his way to kill its strongest asset: the ecosystem. The solution are obvious for growth...
Apple needs to address all market segments for the sake of the ecosystem, they did it with the ipod, why cant they do it with smartphone and tablets?
Apple needs to take back the control of the high end market. IGZO screens, multiple screen sizes, mobile payments, ... They way they try to force feed one size fits all is pissing me off to the bone.
Apple needs to spread the ecosystem to new markets. Grats for the move in the car business. Grats on iRadio. But WTF are they waiting for to enter the TV, gaming, wearable devices, home appliances (third party hardware than talks to the ecosystem), ... markets. And there cloud services could be improve a lot.
Some markets should have been enter YEARS ago, Apple is SO late its going to offer "me to" products now. The only way they can get away with it now is to truely innovate in those markets.
If the only things in the pipeline are the iphone 5s, a retina mini and a thinner ipad, I am afraid things are going to get pretty ugly.
Which makes anything following that sort of error much less interesting.
The mainframe is moving into a data server role, with most of the interface being done with webapps now. Cobol is here to stay for the forseeable future, which is good for me since i am on the mainframe. Problem is we have no young people interested, so most of the mainframe staff now is getting "internationnal". In meeting we have the feeling we are at the United Nations.
I think Apple brass is just not prepared or know how to be a mainstream company.
They did pick a terrible time to go comatose. The coasting began in 2012, in 2013 they are missing in action. Two years between significant updates to their one phone product, only minor bumps to other existing products and the same old promises of new stuff just over the ever retreating horizon. The new Mac pro looks interesting if they ever finish it and actually deliver.
The only action from Apple these days seems to be Cook's dealings over his share grants and the multi-billion dollar corporate palace they are building.
They did pick a terrible time to go comatose. The coasting began in 2012, in 2013 they are missing in action. Two years between significant updates to their one phone product, only minor bumps to other existing products and the same old promises of new stuff just over the ever retreating horizon. The new Mac pro looks interesting if they ever finish it and actually deliver.
The only action from Apple these days seems to be Cook's dealings over his share grants and the multi-billion dollar corporate palace they are building.
Comments
You're right, Apple doesn't claim anything about profit share. But what pays the bills: Market share or profit? Would you rather have 75% of the MS with 25% PS or 25% MS with 75% PS?
Exactly. I didn't think my post was confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
You're right, Apple doesn't claim anything about profit share. But what pays the bills: Market share or profit? Would you rather have 75% of the MS with 25% PS or 25% MS with 75% PS?
Profit isn't profit share. And Apple has plenty of money in the bank for now, to allow a margin hit ( in fact the strategy of buying stock is to hold prices up as margins fall, or - since the market has priced this in - the anticipation of margin falls - indicates they are willing to use the nest egg to do this).
And 1) profit share is falling. DED at the weekend quoted the 2012 Q1 share of 70%, it was 58% last Q. 2) When a market is commoditized and you have saturated the (declining) top percentage of that market, the only way to increase both market share and profit share is to attack the middle and low ends. This doesn't mean you can't produce a premium product at those ends, but you need to be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Exactly. I didn't think my post was confusing.
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Where in this thread are they?
Finally someone who gets it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX
I'm from Romania and I can't buy movies or TV shows from Apple, only music and apps. I can not even use two step authentication from Apple, but I can use it from Google! The iPhone 5 16Gb is 350 Euro with 2 years 51 Euro monthly contract and S4 is 240 Euro with 2 years 49 Euro monthly contract.
http://www.orange.ro/iphone/
Also, keep in mind that the average monthly income is 300-400 euro in Romania (much lower in India by the way). That's equivalent with an iPhone 5 being 2000$-3000$ in USA, right? How many americans would buy iphones at that price?
Apple is known to treat badly small markets. It is not only with iPhones, it's also with Macs. Sadly, but true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
First: you're welcome
As to a mid-priced iPhone: yes... Apple "could". Anything from Apple will be profitable according to their product pricing. But would it be a "profitable" vs. the brand dilution and strengthen the eco-system i.e. App Store? I don't think so.
My experiences with Android users both young and old, are;
a) that they don't trust (for their kids!) or want an App Store... and many don't even have credit cards;
b) the younger ones are content sharing apps, pictures, movies and music by "SD card swapping" with their friends, and without an expensive dataplan (most are on 500mb/mo.);
c) and something that actually is a small advantage for Droids: the ability to swap batteries thru-out the day... again kids in particular (a couple in the back-pack), because business people are more often than not closer to a charger at their desk or in their cars;
d) it's "good enough" for their uses. This is the same argument for Windows vs. Mac. Again, I sell Macs of all kinds to my clients... but they are almost always fully loaded, just like their BMW's, Audi's and Mercedes (business expense). Their families get the middle-of-the-road HP's, Asus, and sometimes even... the bargain-basement do-everything grocery market Deal-of-the-Week.
Hardly any company is making money on PC's... just like mobile phones, except for Apple and of late Samsung.
For Apple specifically to get involved in that mid-to-bottom tier in computers or mobile, after so much success on the top end... would in itself be shocking. Apple has been at it's best "focusing" thru-out it's history. Samsung is profitable by flooding the market and overwhelming their competitors.
For the above reason, I don't really see Samsung as an Apple competitor at all. Actually, Samsung should be ignored just as Apple ignored Dell and Microsoft... and just do their thing: make insanely great products. Those that value that proposition will come, just as they always have. Apple w/o counting the iPad, is still somewhere around 10-12% of the PC market. I thoroughly expect at some time near, that will be about the percentage of iPhones vs. Android "The New Feature Phone" market. Apple has steadfastly refused to reverse the PC-percentage by offering "cheap".... why should they with phones?
One segment is owned by Apple and MUST be protected and advanced beyond reproach: iPad. No other company has it or comes close to it, in both consumer's mindset, nor surprisingly (especially for Microsoft)... in business adoption and usage. That strength and brand loyalty won't last forever, but as it stands... they have such a head start that it would really be shameful for them to lose it by concentrating their efforts on a phone market segment that doesn't value them, their eco-system, or what they stand for.
As always... just sayin'.....
a) true
b) true, but this might change to new commodity of usage.
c) true, but very funny. For adult this would be alone the reason to own iPhone, but kids will be kids...
d) true as well
You may have the point here, but let me ask you: if you would have 4.6" iPhone with 9:16 ratio, would you prefer it over iPhone 5? I know I would for practical reasons.
But you might be right about not winning many new users over with it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
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Where in this thread are they?
There aren't any as far as I can see. THere are some of us who think Apple should have other or different products and we don't think Apple is doomed in any case. However, not sharing exactly same faith as fanatic preachers on this site, then for them you are concern troll, too. As simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
In fact you guys are probably disagreeing with Apple at the moment.
Bull's Eye!
Whatever will happen Apple will release new product lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
What's a "concern troll"?
Its someone who cares about Apple, unlike the braindead fanboys who denies every bad news and think Apple is god and can never ever make mistakes. There is a lot of Apple worshippers here, so you are not allowed to have any views that is not pro Apple. The fanatics here have absolutly no vision whatsoever, maybe that why they worships apple in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
There aren't any as far as I can see. THere are some of us who think Apple should have other or different products and we don't think Apple is doomed in any case. However, not sharing exactly same faith as fanatic preachers on this site, then for them you are concern troll, too. As simple as that.
With the amount of cash Apple has I dont think the company will ever be "doomed" in a sense it will go bankrupt. But the way the company is manage, it could quickly move to a niche market and have its shares continu to freefall has EPS continu to tank.
Apple is no longer leading the high end market in smartphone, and its missing all other segments because its completly disconnect to market changes. Apple is on his way to kill its strongest asset: the ecosystem. The solution are obvious for growth...
Apple needs to address all market segments for the sake of the ecosystem, they did it with the ipod, why cant they do it with smartphone and tablets?
Apple needs to take back the control of the high end market. IGZO screens, multiple screen sizes, mobile payments, ... They way they try to force feed one size fits all is pissing me off to the bone.
Apple needs to spread the ecosystem to new markets. Grats for the move in the car business. Grats on iRadio. But WTF are they waiting for to enter the TV, gaming, wearable devices, home appliances (third party hardware than talks to the ecosystem), ... markets. And there cloud services could be improve a lot.
Some markets should have been enter YEARS ago, Apple is SO late its going to offer "me to" products now. The only way they can get away with it now is to truely innovate in those markets.
If the only things in the pipeline are the iphone 5s, a retina mini and a thinner ipad, I am afraid things are going to get pretty ugly.
"Cobal"?
My take is when you can't spell it, you didn't code it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL
Which makes anything following that sort of error much less interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
Finally someone who gets it!
lol, tech is not cars and its not food. In tech, someone can sell a better product then you for half the price in an heartbeat.
It's early yet.
Could be argued in cars too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138
My take is when you can't spell it, you didn't code it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL
Which makes anything following that sort of error much less interesting.
The mainframe is moving into a data server role, with most of the interface being done with webapps now. Cobol is here to stay for the forseeable future, which is good for me since i am on the mainframe. Problem is we have no young people interested, so most of the mainframe staff now is getting "internationnal". In meeting we have the feeling we are at the United Nations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
Year 2013 will be lost year for Apple...
I think Apple brass is just not prepared or know how to be a mainstream company.
They did pick a terrible time to go comatose. The coasting began in 2012, in 2013 they are missing in action. Two years between significant updates to their one phone product, only minor bumps to other existing products and the same old promises of new stuff just over the ever retreating horizon. The new Mac pro looks interesting if they ever finish it and actually deliver.
The only action from Apple these days seems to be Cook's dealings over his share grants and the multi-billion dollar corporate palace they are building.
Since no android makers report their sales, but Apple does, we know how many iphones are sold but not how many androids.
There's no proof android has more than %5 of the market.
It's time for AppleInsider and all non-apple-hating media to stop reporting these press releases as if they were relevant.
And what proof do you have that Apple has 95% of the market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul
They did pick a terrible time to go comatose. The coasting began in 2012, in 2013 they are missing in action. Two years between significant updates to their one phone product, only minor bumps to other existing products and the same old promises of new stuff just over the ever retreating horizon. The new Mac pro looks interesting if they ever finish it and actually deliver.
The only action from Apple these days seems to be Cook's dealings over his share grants and the multi-billion dollar corporate palace they are building.
Unfair, iOS 7 is pretty good.