Yep, the iPhone "sells" well anywhere that there are subsidies (or other incentives) to cover most of its price.
So yes, the US is an especially important market for Apple, as almost 1/4 of their iPhone sales come from there. (Only about 1/20 of Samsung's smartphone sales do.)
I would also argue that iPhone sells better in those countries and regions where iPhone owners can take maximum advantage of the iOS ecosystem (iCloud, apps, iTunes, Apple retail stores/Genius bars, etc). As mentioned above, building out those resources globally is a tremendous effort beyond which practically no one (including myself) on this forum can comprehend. These services cannot just be slapped together.
Reducing the value and success of iPhone only to subsidies is wearing a bit thin. You personally seem to cherry-pick the negatives and marginalize the positives when it comes to Apple's value-added contributions to end-users. You try to come across as fair-and-balanced, yet this bias of yours is quite transparent to anyone reading your posts on a consistent basis.
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
No. According to these charts, not only is Android the #1 mobile OS, also its market share growth was more than doubled iOS for the quarter. The growth came at the cost of other mobile OSes, particularly BlackBerry.
The takeaway from these charts is that this is a duopoly with all other mobile OSes having what little market share they hold continue to erode away. Or, in other words, BlackBerry is especially doomed given that their market share is continuing to decline even after BB10's release.
You [KDarling] personally seem to cherry-pick the negatives and marginalize the positives when it comes to Apple's value-added contributions to end-users. You try to come across as fair-and-balanced, yet this bias of yours is quite transparent to anyone reading your posts on a consistent basis.
According to BGR, Samsung's subsidies are 10% higher than Apple's in the US. Yet the media keeps pushing this canard that somehow only Apple benefits from subsidies...
I think Tim Cook has played a winning hand. If you look at the adoption of all 1080p phones from Samsung, LG, HTC and Sony and compare them to Apple's single iPhone 5 model, the device web usage looks like this:
NOTE: StatCounter does not weight the data in any way so it will overweight countries like Turkey and slightly underweight countries like the US. If finally understand why Net Applications weights their data.
This looks like Apple has a very winning strategy on their most recent flagship model. Not shown is the current iPhone 5 usage curve is still trending upward at about the same rate as the time period between 28 to 84 days after its release. In short, it has maintained strong demand driving the relative web usage up at a near consistent rate. The 1080P phones are already showing a significant slowing trend meaning they have already starting to near saturation.
That must be why telcos like non-Apple phones. They get the contract and the phones never use data. They win on both sides.
Anyway, so let's add 9% to the US price, which is about $67 and the iPhone price goes up to $816. That's still a difference of more than $200 to European prices.
You're the one complaining! Why don't you tell us what the tax rate is where you live?
My guess 23%. There you go... there's your $ 200.00.
No. According to these charts, not only is Android the #1 mobile OS, also its market share growth was more than doubled iOS for the quarter. The growth came at the cost of other mobile OSes, particularly BlackBerry.
The takeaway from these charts is that this is a duopoly with all other mobile OSes having what little market share they hold continue to erode away. Or, in other words, BlackBerry is especially doomed given that their market share is continuing to decline even after BB10's release.
I was referring to the top smartphone OEM chart. Only Apple and Samsung had positive growth between the two periods being measured. HTC, Motorola and Blackberry were all down. Which makes me wonder if Samsung is taking share more from HTC and Motorola than from Apple.
No, but Apple needs to get three things in order in Europe:
1.) Work with carries in order to ensure better subsidy rates, similar to the US ones.
2.) Stop screwing European customers over and charge appropriate prices, similar to US ones.
3.) Ensure you got an attractive ecosystem within iTunes in all European countries.
Regarding point number two, let me clarify. In Europe, I paid 789 Euros for a 32GB iPhone 5, whereas it costs 749 Dollars in the US. The European price is therefore about 1026 Dollars. I'd be really curious to see how many of those Apple would sell in the US at that rate. It's just crazy.
You've already lost at number 1.).... The rest of the world is not a fan of subsidies at all- it is far more likely that the subsidy racket in the US will go away than the rest of world will convert to it.
EC: We're Apple and we need high margins, but need you to sell more phones. So... My proposal is this. You continue to pay us $650 for our phones, but instead of selling them to consumers for $650 we want you to sell them to your customers for $200.
Carriers: <crickets>.......
EC: So, who is on board?
Carriers:.... ummmm, Let me get this right, we'll be losing a ton of money in order to make you profits?.....
EC: No, you won't.
Carriers: ???
EC: You will change your rates to customers from $50/mo to $100/mo to more closely match US rates. That will change your gross on a 2 year contract from $1200 to $2400. That's $1200 more! Taking out the Apple subsidy of $450, you still make $750 more! Sure, the customers will end up paying more, but that's what we all want anyway, right?
Carriers: Wow! That sounds great! But no way will they go for it.
EC: They won't have a choice if you all agree to our plan. But first, let me show you this carefully crafted document from our legal team that states we have no interest in setting prices or any concern for what you charge for rates on our competitors products. So, ermm..... right, now that that's out of the way, where were we?
Carriers 1: If I raise my rates to $100/mo and everyone else stays at $50/mo nobody will buy my product.
EC: Well, you're right, and you are all not allowed to talk together to do that or it would be illegal. But you know our terms and you know your counterparts have been offered the same terms so if you all agree to it simultaneously individually..... <wink> <wink> <nudge> <nudge> Now this is important, we, Apple are not telling you the price to set, but if it is any more than $100/mo we're not doing it, and any less than that your fine, but you are still paying us the same amount of money- so you really can't afford any less than that.
Carriers: Wow, this is too good to be true.... But if Apple contracts go for $100/mo and Androids go for $50/mo all the business is going to go to Android.
EC: Well, we have this other clause in there... We can't TELL you to raise your Android contracts from $50/mo, but our clause says whatever price you sell their contracts you have to match that price for Apple.
Carriers: But if we do that and still have to pay you your guaranteed subsidy of $450 we'll lose our asses!
EC: Indeed, you will, so you are probably best off setting your Apple price to $100/mo
Carriers: But that means we would have to set our Android price to $100/mo
EC: You said that, not me! <wink>
Carrier Exec: Ahhhhhh..... I get it $$$$$$$! Ohhhh.... and we don't have to guarantee the Android vendors the subsidy, so the extra $1200 from them will be pure profit!!!!
EC: You are a revolutionary genius who is going to change the telecom industry, my friend!
Carriers: Well alright then!
EC: Who's in?
Carriers: Ummm, we really cant sign this until the others have signed it.
EC: I've got two in and two on the fence.
Fence sitter: Marching orders from HQ, can't sign it unless you get the other fence sitter to sign on as well....
EC: It would be shame for us all to lose this great deal even with 3 just because a 4th wouldn't sing..... Besides if you sign, I'm sure they will <whistles>
FS: Okay, we're in
Other FS: We're in too!!!!
That's pretty much what it would take to get subsidies in Europe, and that scenario would *never* happen in the real world
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
Like I've said multiple times, Samsung doesn't have to beat Apple they just need to beat everyone else, and that's exactly what they're doing.
I was referring to the top smartphone OEM chart. Only Apple and Samsung had positive growth between the two periods being measured. HTC, Motorola and Blackberry were all down. Which makes me wonder if Samsung is taking share more from HTC and Motorola than from Apple.
There is not enough data to say given the charts are incomplete. The charts imply there was growth with other Android phone manufacturers besides those listed. I would suspect that Samsung directly reduced HTC's market share for that quarter given the popularity of the Galaxy phones. I would be curious to see how that changes now that the HTC One is available.
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
There is no right answer to that question when the overall market is growing.
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Apple and Samsung are the only companies that sell smartphones?
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Goodness, gracious, no! What school did you go to?
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
:no::rolleyes:
I imagine you realised your mistake as soon as you hit the "SUBMIT" button.
I imagine you realised your mistake as soon as you hit the "SUBMIT" button.
No. I did not. I guess your math is not that good either. If you and I compete and you move forward 0.3 yards and I move 1.7 yards, guess where you are in relation to me. You are 1.4 yards behind me. I hope that this example helped you to understand.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Yep, the iPhone "sells" well anywhere that there are subsidies (or other incentives) to cover most of its price.
So yes, the US is an especially important market for Apple, as almost 1/4 of their iPhone sales come from there. (Only about 1/20 of Samsung's smartphone sales do.)
I would also argue that iPhone sells better in those countries and regions where iPhone owners can take maximum advantage of the iOS ecosystem (iCloud, apps, iTunes, Apple retail stores/Genius bars, etc). As mentioned above, building out those resources globally is a tremendous effort beyond which practically no one (including myself) on this forum can comprehend. These services cannot just be slapped together.
Reducing the value and success of iPhone only to subsidies is wearing a bit thin. You personally seem to cherry-pick the negatives and marginalize the positives when it comes to Apple's value-added contributions to end-users. You try to come across as fair-and-balanced, yet this bias of yours is quite transparent to anyone reading your posts on a consistent basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
No. According to these charts, not only is Android the #1 mobile OS, also its market share growth was more than doubled iOS for the quarter. The growth came at the cost of other mobile OSes, particularly BlackBerry.
The takeaway from these charts is that this is a duopoly with all other mobile OSes having what little market share they hold continue to erode away. Or, in other words, BlackBerry is especially doomed given that their market share is continuing to decline even after BB10's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
You [KDarling] personally seem to cherry-pick the negatives and marginalize the positives when it comes to Apple's value-added contributions to end-users. You try to come across as fair-and-balanced, yet this bias of yours is quite transparent to anyone reading your posts on a consistent basis.
Well, that's an understatement.
[Url]http://bgr.com/2013/06/28/samsung-phone-subsidies-iphone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheBoyGeniusReport+(BGR+%7C+Boy+Genius+Report)[/url]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
I think Tim Cook has played a winning hand. If you look at the adoption of all 1080p phones from Samsung, LG, HTC and Sony and compare them to Apple's single iPhone 5 model, the device web usage looks like this:
NOTE: StatCounter does not weight the data in any way so it will overweight countries like Turkey and slightly underweight countries like the US. If finally understand why Net Applications weights their data.
This looks like Apple has a very winning strategy on their most recent flagship model. Not shown is the current iPhone 5 usage curve is still trending upward at about the same rate as the time period between 28 to 84 days after its release. In short, it has maintained strong demand driving the relative web usage up at a near consistent rate. The 1080P phones are already showing a significant slowing trend meaning they have already starting to near saturation.
That must be why telcos like non-Apple phones. They get the contract and the phones never use data. They win on both sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
Anyway, so let's add 9% to the US price, which is about $67 and the iPhone price goes up to $816. That's still a difference of more than $200 to European prices.
You're the one complaining! Why don't you tell us what the tax rate is where you live?
My guess 23%. There you go... there's your $ 200.00.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
No, but Apple needs to get three things in order in Europe:
1.) Work with carries in order to ensure better subsidy rates, similar to the US ones.
2.) Stop screwing European customers over and charge appropriate prices, similar to US ones.
3.) Ensure you got an attractive ecosystem within iTunes in all European countries.
Regarding point number two, let me clarify. In Europe, I paid 789 Euros for a 32GB iPhone 5, whereas it costs 749 Dollars in the US. The European price is therefore about 1026 Dollars. I'd be really curious to see how many of those Apple would sell in the US at that rate. It's just crazy.
You've already lost at number 1.).... The rest of the world is not a fan of subsidies at all- it is far more likely that the subsidy racket in the US will go away than the rest of world will convert to it.
Unless............... (doodeloo doodeloo doodeloo)....
Eddy Cue: Hello 5 largest carriers in Europe...
Carriers: Hi....
EC: We're Apple and we need high margins, but need you to sell more phones. So... My proposal is this. You continue to pay us $650 for our phones, but instead of selling them to consumers for $650 we want you to sell them to your customers for $200.
Carriers: <crickets>.......
EC: So, who is on board?
Carriers:.... ummmm, Let me get this right, we'll be losing a ton of money in order to make you profits?.....
EC: No, you won't.
Carriers: ???
EC: You will change your rates to customers from $50/mo to $100/mo to more closely match US rates. That will change your gross on a 2 year contract from $1200 to $2400. That's $1200 more! Taking out the Apple subsidy of $450, you still make $750 more! Sure, the customers will end up paying more, but that's what we all want anyway, right?
Carriers: Wow! That sounds great! But no way will they go for it.
EC: They won't have a choice if you all agree to our plan. But first, let me show you this carefully crafted document from our legal team that states we have no interest in setting prices or any concern for what you charge for rates on our competitors products. So, ermm..... right, now that that's out of the way, where were we?
Carriers 1: If I raise my rates to $100/mo and everyone else stays at $50/mo nobody will buy my product.
EC: Well, you're right, and you are all not allowed to talk together to do that or it would be illegal. But you know our terms and you know your counterparts have been offered the same terms so if you all agree to it simultaneously individually..... <wink> <wink> <nudge> <nudge> Now this is important, we, Apple are not telling you the price to set, but if it is any more than $100/mo we're not doing it, and any less than that your fine, but you are still paying us the same amount of money- so you really can't afford any less than that.
Carriers: Wow, this is too good to be true.... But if Apple contracts go for $100/mo and Androids go for $50/mo all the business is going to go to Android.
EC: Well, we have this other clause in there... We can't TELL you to raise your Android contracts from $50/mo, but our clause says whatever price you sell their contracts you have to match that price for Apple.
Carriers: But if we do that and still have to pay you your guaranteed subsidy of $450 we'll lose our asses!
EC: Indeed, you will, so you are probably best off setting your Apple price to $100/mo
Carriers: But that means we would have to set our Android price to $100/mo
EC: You said that, not me! <wink>
Carrier Exec: Ahhhhhh..... I get it $$$$$$$! Ohhhh.... and we don't have to guarantee the Android vendors the subsidy, so the extra $1200 from them will be pure profit!!!!
EC: You are a revolutionary genius who is going to change the telecom industry, my friend!
Carriers: Well alright then!
EC: Who's in?
Carriers: Ummm, we really cant sign this until the others have signed it.
EC: I've got two in and two on the fence.
Fence sitter: Marching orders from HQ, can't sign it unless you get the other fence sitter to sign on as well....
EC: It would be shame for us all to lose this great deal even with 3 just because a 4th wouldn't sing..... Besides if you sign, I'm sure they will <whistles>
FS: Okay, we're in
Other FS: We're in too!!!!
That's pretty much what it would take to get subsidies in Europe, and that scenario would *never* happen in the real world
Like I've said multiple times, Samsung doesn't have to beat Apple they just need to beat everyone else, and that's exactly what they're doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I was referring to the top smartphone OEM chart. Only Apple and Samsung had positive growth between the two periods being measured. HTC, Motorola and Blackberry were all down. Which makes me wonder if Samsung is taking share more from HTC and Motorola than from Apple.
There is not enough data to say given the charts are incomplete. The charts imply there was growth with other Android phone manufacturers besides those listed. I would suspect that Samsung directly reduced HTC's market share for that quarter given the popularity of the Galaxy phones. I would be curious to see how that changes now that the HTC One is available.
bye-bye
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogis
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
So if these numbers are to be believed (and I'm always doubtful) does this mean in the US Samsung is taking market share from other Android manufactures and not Apple?
There is no right answer to that question when the overall market is growing.
Apple and Samsung are the only companies that sell smartphones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrzejls
Well, no. I do not know to what school author of this article went, but I can tell you that math was not part of it. This chart shows that Apple gained 0.3% of the market and Samsung gained 1.7%. Last I checked, it means that Apple lost 1.4% to Samsung. So this is just "spin doctors" story.
Goodness, gracious, no! What school did you go to?
Your post is ridiculous.
You should check your check.
:no::rolleyes:
I imagine you realised your mistake as soon as you hit the "SUBMIT" button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasimo
Apple and Samsung are the only companies that sell smartphones?
And your statement rely to my post exactly how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
I imagine you realised your mistake as soon as you hit the "SUBMIT" button.
No. I did not. I guess your math is not that good either. If you and I compete and you move forward 0.3 yards and I move 1.7 yards, guess where you are in relation to me. You are 1.4 yards behind me. I hope that this example helped you to understand.