You gotta love Americans (and I'm not even French).
You're relying on extreme generalizations here as many people do with their implications regarding Asian countries on this forum. You also directed much of that response at an obvious troll post. That aside the articles could do with less sensationalism.
1) Speaks/reads/writes English and Spanish, reads Italian, German, some French, struggles with Dutch, has forgotten most of his written Russian (hey, it was 40 years ago in elementary school), learning Korean. Doing all of them for fun, since, except for the Spanish, there's not much call for daily use of the rest. Driving out to visit our oldest daughter is the rough equivalent of driving from Paris to Moscow, Ankara, Beirut or Cairo. No passport needed, one language required (others optional and sometimes fun). Most europeans have no idea of the scale of the size of the US and Canada (especially of the western regions).
2) Seldom watches American/British movies or tv. Does watch Korean, Chinese and Japanese cinema.
3) What 2-party system are you talking about? The US has a bunch of political parties. Granted, only 1.5 of them are prominent at the federal level, but you see more of the others as you drift down into more local politics.
4) Pays as much attention to non-US news sources as not; it's not like it's hard to access other sources, even if you limit yourself to english-language reporting. Been doing that since BBC/Radio Moscow/Deutsche Welle/etc were only accessible here on shortwave.
5) Understands european politics well enough, certainly as well or better than most europeans understand US internal politics, which is a pretty low bar. Doesn't mean I have to like much of it.
Good for you. And I mean that. But you don't seriously believe that you are an atypical American. It ticks me off no end that I can't watch CNN International in the US. Because that, unlike CNN is a really good news channel. I don't understand why an organization can treat their viewers outside the US as adults and think that viewers in the US would only be interested in dumbed down shows. Why not give me the option of watching CNN International? Why can't there be more shows like Fareed's GPS on CNN? Or other channels for that matter.
I agree with what you are inferring. I have long maintained that many of the newer generations that are coming up are only getting dumber and they are losing vital skills, such as the ability to write or properly communicate. I'm sure that many people saw a certain woman testifying under a certain high profile trial recently who declared that she couldn't even read cursive. Dumbasses growing up today do not know how to spell properly, and why should they? They are busy texting away on their devices, using a bastardized language where even the simplest of words are abbreviated.
It'll be hilarious if there's a huge EMP attack one day, what will the dumbasses do then, without their crutches?
As for which type of English? There will obviously be variations, as dialects will remain, depending upon geographical location.
And what do you think these kids get influences? TV, RADIO, MOVIES, (can't get it from books since they rarely actually READ books), DRUGS, ALCOHOL, INTERNET, COMPUTER DEVICES, LISTENING TO DUMB "music" (music is italicized because 90% of it isn't really music) and lastly other kids.
It's called the dumbing down of society. A lot of people in society can't read even a simple article and they don't question the validity of the article. Another part of human behavior going away.
I'm all for using computer devices, but I keep texting to an absolute minimum. I think I only use it sparingly because I hate little tiny keyboards.
The thing is, if you ask one the people of this newer generation, they'll probably tell you that us "older" people are the dumb ones because we're not usually hip to all of the abbreviations and acronyms and Ebonics they use in texting. Go figure.
Likewise, so from now on I'm ignoring you. Karma's a bitch.
Do you want a medal or something?, because they're all out! You are not the first person to do so on this forum, so you will have to patiently get in line, and wait your turn.
I also don't quite believe you, because it has been proven in the past that certain people who feel the need to pronounce that they are claiming to ignore somebody actually still follows what said person writes and says, because they are curious, and that is human nature.
And if you are able to read this, then you have already broken your promise.
But I must say that if Apple's sin is to have insisted upon clean, well-maintained displays that adhere to a corporate standard, then you do not appreciate two things.
It's amazing what ppl interpret into clear English...
The issue isn't the standards, but that Apple mandates COSTLY UPGRADES, but then WITHHOLDs PROFITable sales opportunities by stocking only their own stores until they have a glut of inventory, at least when the alleged facts are true.
Apple is free to choose if they want independent resellers or not, but unless these resellers are specifically told that they will given shorter sticks, Apple has to treat all competing sales outlets fairly.
Just because some meaningful legal standards don't exist or aren't enforced in the US doesn't mean the laws are bad.
And all the useless French-bashing is just embarrassing, particularly coming from people who have not a clue about French and European law or culture and get their views by regurgitating US talk radio hosts ill-formed opinions...
(No, I'm not French, but at least I know Europe and have traveled the world a bit more than getting liquored up in an all-inclusive vacation resort in some supposedly exotic foreign location that might as well be a movie set somewhere in Holllywood and nobody could tell the difference..)
"And all the useless French bashing is just embarrassing . . ."
Indeed, what a sad bunch of yahoos. I was thinking on the drive home tonight about how unfair this stuff is. In 1967, my wife and I were traveling through the south of France in a '58 VW bus we'd bought in Amsterdam, when it finally gave up the ghost somewhere near Nice, after taking us through Germany, northern France and Spain. It was a broken valve, on a vehicle that was still somewhat alien in France.
What to do? We couldn't sell the car without paying an import tax, much more than what the car was worth as salvalge. A French couple stopped to see what the trouble was. He was driving a VW bug, a rarity, so he responded to the brotherhood of the road, took us to a junkyard and arranged a black market sale, got us a hundred bucks or so for it, then he and his wife took us to their home for dinner and a place to stay. We communicated in our rudimentary French and his rudimentary English—he was with IBM France. The wife whipped together in no time the most delicious repast that we ever had in our travels, and we enjoyed the wine that he brought out long into the night. I wondered how he would get up and go to work in the morning, but he did.
This was one great experience in France, one out of many, and the other stories of how deliriously civilized people there can be could go on for pages.
I do not understand xenophobia. It reminds me of certain breeds of dogs that are ill-raised. They bark at phantoms in their minds.
The level of stupidity among many of the comments here, bigoted or not, is just pathetic. Yeah anti-trust laws and inquiries about possible anti-competition practices are obviously socialist and non-competitive, if you are an ignorant clown regurgitating nonsensical garbage.
Remember a little while back how some Frenchy minister was bashing Apple, because Apple had dared to remove some French app from the app store that was violating the rules? Do rules not apply to Frenchies?
And now we have the French "competition authority" raiding Apple's headquarters! "Competition authority", haha, that is hilarious. A bunch of Frenchies going around protecting losers and those who fail. What a brilliant concept.
What a joke of a country! A socialist hellhole that despises success, demonizes the rich and taxes the hell out of everybody. No wonder France is a mess, and things will only get worse! Now at least that is some good news!
I've been to most places in Europe, but I refuse to step foot in that ridiculous country.
Rather stay in your cave, a typical ignoramus full of conditioned clichés and ludicrous bigotry. I pity your relatives, if any left.
It is not about Apple Stores competing fairly with Premium resellers and still having the preference of customers. It is not about an unnamed computer store failing miserably beacause it operates a few blocks away from a brand new Apple store either.
It is about Apple coercing its partners to conform to costly specifications (size of the showfloor, type of furnitures, shelving layout etc.) in order to get the "Apple premium reseller" tag, then fucking with them by supplying only its own Stores with the latests products.
In Europe, Apple sales were really bad in the 1990s (marketshare was half the US one) and if not for enthusiast Apple resellers like eBizcuss at that time, Apple would have not had much places to sell the iMac when the first one hit the shelves%u2026
eBizcuss wasn't a small store, it covered dozens of Apple Premium Resellers in both France and Belgium. Nor was it the only reseller to ask for someone to have a look in Apple practices.
Apple wants to do business in EU. They have to conform to EU laws. That's it. If EU citizens money is good enough for Apple, they should stop fucking with our laws
French Apple Stores aren't paying taxes: Apple built an Apple Store EU subsidiary which buys product from Apple US, at retail price. Because french Apple stores bear payroll charges too (which are quite high in France), they are losing money and avoid any taxes on profit by doing so.
I admire Apple for their products and their commitment to quality and innovation but as a company, when they do business outside of US, they tend to behave like bastards%u2026
Yes, we have Apple Premium Resellers in Switzerland as well. Two days ago I priced a 15" rMBP. $2,000 higher than the US Apple Store, after VAT.
The problem is not French law or Apple competitive practice, its the fact small European retailers expect to make a very good living doing very little to nothing. And a popu?ation that tolerates this. As France is seeing in many ways, this approach does not work.
Yes, we have Apple Premium Resellers in Switzerland as well. Two days ago I priced a 15" rMBP. $2,000 higher than the US Apple Store, after VAT.
The problem is not French law or Apple competitive practice, its the fact small European retailers expect to make a very good living doing very little to nothing. And a popu?ation that tolerates this. As France is seeing in many ways, this approach does not work.
I ordered from the USA.
Are you saying that everyone that owns a store does little or nothing?
I don't know where you are from or what business practices you are familiar with. I have lived and worked in Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland and the USA. For better or for worst, there are markedly different approaches to both life and business. Typical in the USA is 6 days a week plus evening hours. Typical in Europe is about 5 days a week, multiple hour closures at lunch time and no evening hours. Signs on doors saying "out for a bit" are common. Holidays are paid, lengthy and there is little to no incentive paid for employee self-initiated growth. There's perhaps a bonus, that's totally expected irrespective of performance. Customer service, product knowledge and employee flexibility suffer as a result.
Where businesses have adopted an approach more aligned with the US approach, small businesses have been devastated. Be it a US company or, more often, a local company. Just look at France with its big box stores and what MacDonald's did to many French restaurants (that perfectly reflected the do little to nothing and expect the consumers to simply pay).
So, yes I am saying many European small business owners have a relatively easy life. Competitive positioning is an after thought as are their customers. What keeps it all going is the acceptance (if not negligence) of the consumer. That's why Internet shopping has not made much of a dent. However, stick a brick and mortar store in front of them, irrespective of where it originated, and offer merchandise at a substantially lower price, with trained knowledgeable staff and good customer interface skills and viola, the small guys get crushed and scream unfair. What was unfair was how they operated their business for years/decades without a thought given to bettering either the business or their customers' experience.
And lest you believe I'm only picking on the small guy, why does my BMW cost 25% more, inclusive of comparable sales/VAT tax and after negotiations, for the same exact car in Switzerland than in the USA? Why does a cheap camera part I looked for at Amazon DE just the other day cost 4 times what it costs at Amazon USA? Or Apple's rMBP which is 40% more at a Swiss reseller, after US sales tax? He's open 5 days a week, closed at 17:30 sharp and closed for summer holidays.
It would appear to me the European consumers have voted to perpetuate the system. However, it can only last so long and bit by bit those who can not compete will scream.
Finally, its no cheaper to operate a business in the USA than Europe. While Europe has its high labor costs and low work hours, the USA has a cascade of governmental bodies and groups all passing legislation that needs to be complied with, frequently changing, frequently conflicting and frequently requires, at each level, connected consultants, lawyers and PR people, not to mention facilitating payments/campaign contributions. I've moved many production activities from the USA to Germany, Switzerland and France and always made money on the relocations. However, we did not run our companies in the European vein. We simply assumed we were in a competitive environment and managed accordingly.
However, stick a brick and mortar store in front of them, irrespective of where it originated, and offer merchandise at a substantially lower price, with trained knowledgeable staff and good customer interface skills and viola, the small guys get crushed and scream unfair. What was unfair was how they operated their business for years/decades without a thought given to bettering either the business or their customers' experience.
That is why I was glad when Apple came to town. Our local Apple reseller was the only game in town and knew it.
They would not sell you anything without getting all your personal details for spamming purposes. Understaffed at busy times, always a wait. Poor point of sale equipment: cash register always taking ages to process a transaction. Untrained staff: one customer asked if they could run Office on the Mac, and instead of simply selling them a copy of Office for Mac, he tried to sell them a copy of Parallels, Windows and Office, explaining the concept of virtualization as the customer's eyes glazed over. Just a nightmare.
When they found out Apple Store was coming to town they had the good sense to close before Apple arrived.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs
You gotta love Americans (and I'm not even French).
You're relying on extreme generalizations here as many people do with their implications regarding Asian countries on this forum. You also directed much of that response at an obvious troll post. That aside the articles could do with less sensationalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
Binary?
Ever watched flight of the concords?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH
This one (and not very atypical one at at that):
1) Speaks/reads/writes English and Spanish, reads Italian, German, some French, struggles with Dutch, has forgotten most of his written Russian (hey, it was 40 years ago in elementary school), learning Korean. Doing all of them for fun, since, except for the Spanish, there's not much call for daily use of the rest. Driving out to visit our oldest daughter is the rough equivalent of driving from Paris to Moscow, Ankara, Beirut or Cairo. No passport needed, one language required (others optional and sometimes fun). Most europeans have no idea of the scale of the size of the US and Canada (especially of the western regions).
2) Seldom watches American/British movies or tv. Does watch Korean, Chinese and Japanese cinema.
3) What 2-party system are you talking about? The US has a bunch of political parties. Granted, only 1.5 of them are prominent at the federal level, but you see more of the others as you drift down into more local politics.
4) Pays as much attention to non-US news sources as not; it's not like it's hard to access other sources, even if you limit yourself to english-language reporting. Been doing that since BBC/Radio Moscow/Deutsche Welle/etc were only accessible here on shortwave.
5) Understands european politics well enough, certainly as well or better than most europeans understand US internal politics, which is a pretty low bar. Doesn't mean I have to like much of it.
Good for you. And I mean that. But you don't seriously believe that you are an atypical American. It ticks me off no end that I can't watch CNN International in the US. Because that, unlike CNN is a really good news channel. I don't understand why an organization can treat their viewers outside the US as adults and think that viewers in the US would only be interested in dumbed down shows. Why not give me the option of watching CNN International? Why can't there be more shows like Fareed's GPS on CNN? Or other channels for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I agree with what you are inferring. I have long maintained that many of the newer generations that are coming up are only getting dumber and they are losing vital skills, such as the ability to write or properly communicate. I'm sure that many people saw a certain woman testifying under a certain high profile trial recently who declared that she couldn't even read cursive. Dumbasses growing up today do not know how to spell properly, and why should they? They are busy texting away on their devices, using a bastardized language where even the simplest of words are abbreviated.
It'll be hilarious if there's a huge EMP attack one day, what will the dumbasses do then, without their crutches?
As for which type of English? There will obviously be variations, as dialects will remain, depending upon geographical location.
And what do you think these kids get influences? TV, RADIO, MOVIES, (can't get it from books since they rarely actually READ books), DRUGS, ALCOHOL, INTERNET, COMPUTER DEVICES, LISTENING TO DUMB "music" (music is italicized because 90% of it isn't really music) and lastly other kids.
It's called the dumbing down of society. A lot of people in society can't read even a simple article and they don't question the validity of the article. Another part of human behavior going away.
I'm all for using computer devices, but I keep texting to an absolute minimum. I think I only use it sparingly because I hate little tiny keyboards.
The thing is, if you ask one the people of this newer generation, they'll probably tell you that us "older" people are the dumb ones because we're not usually hip to all of the abbreviations and acronyms and Ebonics they use in texting. Go figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I also actively discriminate against and ignore all non-English speakers in the US, as I have no time for ignorant people.
Likewise, so from now on I'm ignoring you. Karma's a bitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
Likewise, so from now on I'm ignoring you. Karma's a bitch.
Do you want a medal or something?, because they're all out! You are not the first person to do so on this forum, so you will have to patiently get in line, and wait your turn.
I also don't quite believe you, because it has been proven in the past that certain people who feel the need to pronounce that they are claiming to ignore somebody actually still follows what said person writes and says, because they are curious, and that is human nature.
And if you are able to read this, then you have already broken your promise.
It's amazing what ppl interpret into clear English...
The issue isn't the standards, but that Apple mandates COSTLY UPGRADES, but then WITHHOLDs PROFITable sales opportunities by stocking only their own stores until they have a glut of inventory, at least when the alleged facts are true.
Apple is free to choose if they want independent resellers or not, but unless these resellers are specifically told that they will given shorter sticks, Apple has to treat all competing sales outlets fairly.
Just because some meaningful legal standards don't exist or aren't enforced in the US doesn't mean the laws are bad.
And all the useless French-bashing is just embarrassing, particularly coming from people who have not a clue about French and European law or culture and get their views by regurgitating US talk radio hosts ill-formed opinions...
(No, I'm not French, but at least I know Europe and have traveled the world a bit more than getting liquored up in an all-inclusive vacation resort in some supposedly exotic foreign location that might as well be a movie set somewhere in Holllywood and nobody could tell the difference..)
"And all the useless French bashing is just embarrassing . . ."
Indeed, what a sad bunch of yahoos. I was thinking on the drive home tonight about how unfair this stuff is. In 1967, my wife and I were traveling through the south of France in a '58 VW bus we'd bought in Amsterdam, when it finally gave up the ghost somewhere near Nice, after taking us through Germany, northern France and Spain. It was a broken valve, on a vehicle that was still somewhat alien in France.
What to do? We couldn't sell the car without paying an import tax, much more than what the car was worth as salvalge. A French couple stopped to see what the trouble was. He was driving a VW bug, a rarity, so he responded to the brotherhood of the road, took us to a junkyard and arranged a black market sale, got us a hundred bucks or so for it, then he and his wife took us to their home for dinner and a place to stay. We communicated in our rudimentary French and his rudimentary English—he was with IBM France. The wife whipped together in no time the most delicious repast that we ever had in our travels, and we enjoyed the wine that he brought out long into the night. I wondered how he would get up and go to work in the morning, but he did.
This was one great experience in France, one out of many, and the other stories of how deliriously civilized people there can be could go on for pages.
I do not understand xenophobia. It reminds me of certain breeds of dogs that are ill-raised. They bark at phantoms in their minds.
Welcome to tea party crazy land. And I'm American BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephane36
It is not about Apple Stores competing fairly with Premium resellers and still having the preference of customers. It is not about an unnamed computer store failing miserably beacause it operates a few blocks away from a brand new Apple store either.
It is about Apple coercing its partners to conform to costly specifications (size of the showfloor, type of furnitures, shelving layout etc.) in order to get the "Apple premium reseller" tag, then fucking with them by supplying only its own Stores with the latests products.
In Europe, Apple sales were really bad in the 1990s (marketshare was half the US one) and if not for enthusiast Apple resellers like eBizcuss at that time, Apple would have not had much places to sell the iMac when the first one hit the shelves%u2026
eBizcuss wasn't a small store, it covered dozens of Apple Premium Resellers in both France and Belgium. Nor was it the only reseller to ask for someone to have a look in Apple practices.
Apple wants to do business in EU. They have to conform to EU laws. That's it. If EU citizens money is good enough for Apple, they should stop fucking with our laws
French Apple Stores aren't paying taxes: Apple built an Apple Store EU subsidiary which buys product from Apple US, at retail price. Because french Apple stores bear payroll charges too (which are quite high in France), they are losing money and avoid any taxes on profit by doing so.
I admire Apple for their products and their commitment to quality and innovation but as a company, when they do business outside of US, they tend to behave like bastards%u2026
Yes, we have Apple Premium Resellers in Switzerland as well. Two days ago I priced a 15" rMBP. $2,000 higher than the US Apple Store, after VAT.
The problem is not French law or Apple competitive practice, its the fact small European retailers expect to make a very good living doing very little to nothing. And a popu?ation that tolerates this. As France is seeing in many ways, this approach does not work.
I ordered from the USA.
Are you saying that everyone that owns a store does little or nothing?
I don't know where you are from or what business practices you are familiar with. I have lived and worked in Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland and the USA. For better or for worst, there are markedly different approaches to both life and business. Typical in the USA is 6 days a week plus evening hours. Typical in Europe is about 5 days a week, multiple hour closures at lunch time and no evening hours. Signs on doors saying "out for a bit" are common. Holidays are paid, lengthy and there is little to no incentive paid for employee self-initiated growth. There's perhaps a bonus, that's totally expected irrespective of performance. Customer service, product knowledge and employee flexibility suffer as a result.
Where businesses have adopted an approach more aligned with the US approach, small businesses have been devastated. Be it a US company or, more often, a local company. Just look at France with its big box stores and what MacDonald's did to many French restaurants (that perfectly reflected the do little to nothing and expect the consumers to simply pay).
So, yes I am saying many European small business owners have a relatively easy life. Competitive positioning is an after thought as are their customers. What keeps it all going is the acceptance (if not negligence) of the consumer. That's why Internet shopping has not made much of a dent. However, stick a brick and mortar store in front of them, irrespective of where it originated, and offer merchandise at a substantially lower price, with trained knowledgeable staff and good customer interface skills and viola, the small guys get crushed and scream unfair. What was unfair was how they operated their business for years/decades without a thought given to bettering either the business or their customers' experience.
And lest you believe I'm only picking on the small guy, why does my BMW cost 25% more, inclusive of comparable sales/VAT tax and after negotiations, for the same exact car in Switzerland than in the USA? Why does a cheap camera part I looked for at Amazon DE just the other day cost 4 times what it costs at Amazon USA? Or Apple's rMBP which is 40% more at a Swiss reseller, after US sales tax? He's open 5 days a week, closed at 17:30 sharp and closed for summer holidays.
It would appear to me the European consumers have voted to perpetuate the system. However, it can only last so long and bit by bit those who can not compete will scream.
Finally, its no cheaper to operate a business in the USA than Europe. While Europe has its high labor costs and low work hours, the USA has a cascade of governmental bodies and groups all passing legislation that needs to be complied with, frequently changing, frequently conflicting and frequently requires, at each level, connected consultants, lawyers and PR people, not to mention facilitating payments/campaign contributions. I've moved many production activities from the USA to Germany, Switzerland and France and always made money on the relocations. However, we did not run our companies in the European vein. We simply assumed we were in a competitive environment and managed accordingly.
Sorry all for the long post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye Forget
However, stick a brick and mortar store in front of them, irrespective of where it originated, and offer merchandise at a substantially lower price, with trained knowledgeable staff and good customer interface skills and viola, the small guys get crushed and scream unfair. What was unfair was how they operated their business for years/decades without a thought given to bettering either the business or their customers' experience.
That is why I was glad when Apple came to town. Our local Apple reseller was the only game in town and knew it.
They would not sell you anything without getting all your personal details for spamming purposes. Understaffed at busy times, always a wait. Poor point of sale equipment: cash register always taking ages to process a transaction. Untrained staff: one customer asked if they could run Office on the Mac, and instead of simply selling them a copy of Office for Mac, he tried to sell them a copy of Parallels, Windows and Office, explaining the concept of virtualization as the customer's eyes glazed over. Just a nightmare.
When they found out Apple Store was coming to town they had the good sense to close before Apple arrived.