From what I've seen, it takes amazing photos for a phone. Take a look before whining about mega-pixels.
Sure, they take good exposures, but that has nothing to do with megapixels which was my only complaint. It is the quality of the glass and sensor and how the processor eliminates noise and fixes any issues. That is why I with Apple would move to Canon or [hate to say it] Nikon instead of Sony as both have better image processing and glass.
Just saw the back of the phone. That's a pretty sizable lens housing... so if the optics are high quality, it really might make for a good camera. (Still think 41 MP is overkill though.)
Just found this white paper: i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/2723846/data/1/-/Lumia1020-whitepaper.pdf
It explains how 41MP is used to produce better pictures. Interesting concept. Hope the next iphone will be like this.
I saw them and think they look great too (zoomed out). But on the web page you are really only seeing a very small fraction of the pixels unless you zoom all of the way in. Do so and you'll see the blur from the optics. Stopping at 5 MP was probably sufficient.
The default image size is still 5MP. This document goes a long way to answer all of the complaints made in this thread so far.
I've found many conflicting informations around this non-sense phone, It is pretty hard to make my mind on this device.
It seams the proclaimed 41Mpixels sensor is a scam, on some site the reported achieving this resolution thru oversampling, which is a very cheap trick to pull off. Beside since there is no point and shoot or DSLR 40 Mpixels camera under 6000$, I found Nokia claims pretty fishy.
Just found this white paper: i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/2723846/data/1/-/Lumia1020-whitepaper.pdf
It explains how 41MP is used to produce better pictures. Interesting concept. Hope the next iphone will be like this.
Great find, thanks! I still need to finish reading this, but it is very interesting how they are applying the pixel oversampling to effectively get the best 5MP. I'm sure this also helps in their zooming.
The default image size is still 5MP. This document goes a long way to answer all of the complaints made in this thread so far.
Not really. It is still 5MP image from a 41MP exposure. They still put 41MP out there for marketing. It's almost a bait and switch if people think they are getting a 41MP output.
Again, this take nothing away from the image quality of the phone, which is very nice. I just have issue with the marketing.
Lastly I would like to say that Apple has a long way to go with their camera system, and not because it takes bad pictures, it does not, but because it could take great pictures and fully replace the point and shoot.
In my opinion, this is an area Apple should have in-house and develop their own glass and sensors as they have the money to hire the best. Apple's weakest attributes are low light, even exposure, and speed. I hope the 5s bring about leaps in their camera tech.
I haven't seen it asked or mentioned yet about the impact on battery life and "logistics" of these monster images. During the event, Nokia mentioned and briefly showed the add-on grip which has a supplementary battery, ostensibly for the flash, but I'm thinking it's for overall battery life enhancement.
This looks like "feature boasting" from Nokia. I seriously doubt if 41 megapixel images will be "appreciated" by the average user.
I haven't seen it asked or mentioned yet about the impact on battery life and "logistics" of these monster images. During the event, Nokia mentioned and briefly showed the add-on grip which has a supplementary battery, ostensibly for the flash, but I'm thinking it's for overall battery life enhancement.
This looks like "feature boasting" from Nokia. I seriously doubt if 41 megapixel images will be "appreciated" by the average user.
It is not a 41MP output, but rather a 41MP capture (oversample) that is used to produce a 5MP output. Read the above article that boriscleto found for more information.
Why the **** do they think 14MP is useful on a phone when modern SLRs don't have 14MP?? What a ridiculous marketing gimmick.
This 41MP camera is not a gimmick. It is legitimate technique that can either 1) eliminate noise by means of supersampling or 2) allow lossless zoom.
Most people here seem to completely ignore the fact that the nominal picture size is just 5MP.
Kudos to Nokia for that. I hope Apple will not ignore it, though looking how slow Apple is innovating the iPhone recently, it could be a very distant future:
Things I've been patiently waiting from Apple which are already available in some other phones:
You are correct. The pixel spacing on these phone camera sensors became smaller than the point-spread function of the optics a long time ago. (Probably way back at about 3 MP, actually, but I haven't checked the optical specs for a while. There's only so much you can do physically with a small lens and short focal distance. ) So if Nokia adds a bunch more pixels we'll just have a bunch more blurry pixels. Now we have greater zoom levels into the universe of blur and artifact.
But the general consumer will be duped.
Thompson
Not quite. Large pixel densities don't cause blurryness, but they create heat, which causes noise, especially at high ISOs.
Although 41MP is too large in any case, I wonder what the sensor size is. If it's DX or larger, that would be interesting.
But how much storage is on this phone? Does it have removable storage? If not, you're going to fill it up pretty fast.
There is absolutely no way that thing has a large enough sensor to support 41 megapixels. They're targeting dummies who simply don't know better. Cramming more pixels onto a sensor only works if you increase the sensor size dramatically. For 41 megapixels, we'd be talking about a sensor the size of what would be in a top of the line full frame DSLR (think $3,000+ price range minimum).
Apparently, we're going back to the old days where people buy based on numbers even when they have no idea what the numbers mean.
Good review of previous Nokia's 41MP phone camera, 808.
1. you can take 34 or 38 megapixel images if you do not mind the full size image on your phone. You can only get the full size images off the phone by connecting the phone to the pc. anyway else will compress them.
2. the image sensor is bigger then most point and shoot and cell phone picture sensors size wise
3. nokia stated that the pixels are the size of the iphone 5 camera sensor pixels BUT there are 41megapixels worth. ITs a 1/1.5 sensor (the verge says 2/3)
4. The way they do their oversampling allows you to just take the picture and do the focusing in software. They showed this in real time in the press conference.
Does anyone else think the camera on the back of this phone is super ugly? And for all the talk here, we have to keep in mind that we are either tech professionals or enthusiasts not the average consumer. What consumer can truly be unhappy with photos taken on an iPhone 5?
That is incorrect. Megapixels has NOTHING to do with the quality of an exposure. What megapixels brings you are two things 1) the ability to print onto larger medias (paper or screen), although most software can do what megapixels can't. 2) the ability to heavily crop an image and maintain reasonable megapixels when printing. That is it. What increasing megapixels will do is increase the size of the file, which on a phone for texting and emailing is a bad thing.
Now the quality of the pixels is a key factor as well as sensor quality and processor and software. And by far the most important is the glass!!!!
Canon's top of the line $6,700 EOS has 18MPs, while their 5D MIII $3,500 EOS has 22MP. So it is safe to say that a $200 phone having 41MP is strictly marketing!
I shot 90% of these with an 8MP EOS and assure you, it will beat out any 41MP phone image.
I don't disagree with a thing you said. The examples of cameras you mentioned obviously have way different characteristics from one another. And of course your 8MP EOS will beat out the 41mp phone. What I said was if everything stays the same, then picture quality is improved (as you said- when cropping). I crop almost every picture I take, so it's a little more important to me I guess.
Absolutely amazing pictures. Very nice talent Richard!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
From what I've seen, it takes amazing photos for a phone. Take a look before whining about mega-pixels.
Sure, they take good exposures, but that has nothing to do with megapixels which was my only complaint. It is the quality of the glass and sensor and how the processor eliminates noise and fixes any issues. That is why I with Apple would move to Canon or [hate to say it] Nikon instead of Sony as both have better image processing and glass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
Just saw the back of the phone. That's a pretty sizable lens housing... so if the optics are high quality, it really might make for a good camera. (Still think 41 MP is overkill though.)
Just found this white paper: i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/2723846/data/1/-/Lumia1020-whitepaper.pdf
It explains how 41MP is used to produce better pictures. Interesting concept. Hope the next iphone will be like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
I saw them and think they look great too (zoomed out). But on the web page you are really only seeing a very small fraction of the pixels unless you zoom all of the way in. Do so and you'll see the blur from the optics. Stopping at 5 MP was probably sufficient.
The default image size is still 5MP. This document goes a long way to answer all of the complaints made in this thread so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
I shot 90% of these with an 8MP EOS and assure you, it will beat out any 41MP phone image.
Wow! Those are some beautiful pictures Richard. I have always liked nature photography.
It seams the proclaimed 41Mpixels sensor is a scam, on some site the reported achieving this resolution thru oversampling, which is a very cheap trick to pull off. Beside since there is no point and shoot or DSLR 40 Mpixels camera under 6000$, I found Nokia claims pretty fishy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen
Just found this white paper: i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/2723846/data/1/-/Lumia1020-whitepaper.pdf
It explains how 41MP is used to produce better pictures. Interesting concept. Hope the next iphone will be like this.
Great find, thanks! I still need to finish reading this, but it is very interesting how they are applying the pixel oversampling to effectively get the best 5MP. I'm sure this also helps in their zooming.
Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipen
Size of photo file: 400-600 KB
//arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/07/in-the-dark-and-on-the-move-with-the-nokia-lumia-1020s-camera/
A great and sane 4Mpixels photo took with an iPhone 4S ;-) (check the exif tag on it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
The default image size is still 5MP. This document goes a long way to answer all of the complaints made in this thread so far.
Not really. It is still 5MP image from a 41MP exposure. They still put 41MP out there for marketing. It's almost a bait and switch if people think they are getting a 41MP output.
Again, this take nothing away from the image quality of the phone, which is very nice. I just have issue with the marketing.
Lastly I would like to say that Apple has a long way to go with their camera system, and not because it takes bad pictures, it does not, but because it could take great pictures and fully replace the point and shoot.
In my opinion, this is an area Apple should have in-house and develop their own glass and sensors as they have the money to hire the best. Apple's weakest attributes are low light, even exposure, and speed. I hope the 5s bring about leaps in their camera tech.
I haven't seen it asked or mentioned yet about the impact on battery life and "logistics" of these monster images. During the event, Nokia mentioned and briefly showed the add-on grip which has a supplementary battery, ostensibly for the flash, but I'm thinking it's for overall battery life enhancement.
This looks like "feature boasting" from Nokia. I seriously doubt if 41 megapixel images will be "appreciated" by the average user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW
I haven't seen it asked or mentioned yet about the impact on battery life and "logistics" of these monster images. During the event, Nokia mentioned and briefly showed the add-on grip which has a supplementary battery, ostensibly for the flash, but I'm thinking it's for overall battery life enhancement.
This looks like "feature boasting" from Nokia. I seriously doubt if 41 megapixel images will be "appreciated" by the average user.
It is not a 41MP output, but rather a 41MP capture (oversample) that is used to produce a 5MP output. Read the above article that boriscleto found for more information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Why the **** do they think 14MP is useful on a phone when modern SLRs don't have 14MP?? What a ridiculous marketing gimmick.
This 41MP camera is not a gimmick. It is legitimate technique that can either 1) eliminate noise by means of supersampling or 2) allow lossless zoom.
Most people here seem to completely ignore the fact that the nominal picture size is just 5MP.
Kudos to Nokia for that. I hope Apple will not ignore it, though looking how slow Apple is innovating the iPhone recently, it could be a very distant future:
Things I've been patiently waiting from Apple which are already available in some other phones:
Thin bezel
Waterproof
Supersampling camera
Not quite. Large pixel densities don't cause blurryness, but they create heat, which causes noise, especially at high ISOs.
Although 41MP is too large in any case, I wonder what the sensor size is. If it's DX or larger, that would be interesting.
But how much storage is on this phone? Does it have removable storage? If not, you're going to fill it up pretty fast.
Good review of previous Nokia's 41MP phone camera, 808.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8083837371/review-nokia-808-pureview
Lumia 1020 has improved glass and sensor, much as I could find out... so it cannot be worst than 808.
1. you can take 34 or 38 megapixel images if you do not mind the full size image on your phone. You can only get the full size images off the phone by connecting the phone to the pc. anyway else will compress them.
2. the image sensor is bigger then most point and shoot and cell phone picture sensors size wise
3. nokia stated that the pixels are the size of the iphone 5 camera sensor pixels BUT there are 41megapixels worth. ITs a 1/1.5 sensor (the verge says 2/3)
4. The way they do their oversampling allows you to just take the picture and do the focusing in software. They showed this in real time in the press conference.
Absolutely amazing pictures. Very nice talent Richard!