That was pretty much what I was saying. There is just no way of knowing how many pirated copies of software equate to a lost sale. Some people were not going to buy it anyway, some people once they downloaded the software never use it (they are just collecting software), some people try software once (hate the software, and discard it), and some studies have suggested pirating actually increases sales of software (people pirate the software to see if they like it, and if they do buy it).
My main point was people like to start from the unvalidated premise that pirating software is causing significant harm to content providers.
Arguing that the loss of revenue is uncertain is not really relevant.
The fact is that it's still stolen property and the people who pirate the software have no right to it. If I own something, I have the right to control it and keep people from stealing it - even if they were not going to pay me money under any scenario. It's a simple property rights issue.
And even the argument that piracy might increase sales is irrelevant. Even if it were true (and the experience with the record industry suggests that it's not), I, as copyright owner, get to make the choice of whether I want to allow someone a free trial. The non-purchaser does not have the right to make that decision.
The point was made that most people jailbreak to pirate apps and that there weren't the same legitimate reasons to jailbreak anymore. This was countered with the fact that you don't need to jailbreak to pirate apps on iOS, and made further to the point that Apple TV 2nd Gen commands a higher price on eBay because it's capable of being jailbroken, despite the fact there are absolutely zero apps that can be pirated for it. While there are far fewer reasons to jailbreak an Apple TV than an iPhone or iPad, the reasons that remain are significant enough in the marketplace to result in a demand for the 2nd Gen and a bump in pricing for it. One person mentioned being able to install apps like an Internet browser, and you turned it into a sarcastic "Clearly Apple is failing to compete."
Nice job.
The point remains though. Clearly people are jailbreaking for reasons that have nothing to do with piracy. You can believe those of us who are saying this here or choose not to believe us because somehow we have incentive to lie. You can visit the top jailbreaking communities and see what they're talking about... and I dare you to mention piracy (see: http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/). You can search YouTube for videos or Google for articles showing all the reasons why people jailbreak that have nothing to do with piracy. You can look at jailbreak-only apps and services that used to exist for piracy that have all shut down, while services that don't require jailbreaking for piracy continue to operate. And you can look at the fact that enough people are jailbreaking the Apple TV, that the 2nd generation is commanding a higher price despite there being no apps to pirate for it.
No, but it does mean that you have a very, very high probability of being a person who pirates games. It's literally the number one reason people jailbreak.
No. Not at all. There are MANY reasons to jailbreak aside from pirating. Examples include wanting to change your default web browser, wanting to tether on occasion without getting double-dipped by AT&T, wanting to customize your UI.
I have had 3 jailbroken phones and have never pirated an app. Why would I pirate? Most games are free and the few that are not only cost $1 or $2. It's not even close to being worth the trouble to pirate.
You guys are all assuming, without any data at all, that jailbreak = pirate. And that's just unadulterated B.S. Which is why these A.I. forums are such a laughingstock on other forums. A.I. has a lot of regulars who post before they think, if they think at all. It's pathetic.
Come and join the best Deus Ex: The Fall forum in hot discussion with a thousand others about any thing related to Deus Ex: The Fall. If you need an overall appraisal of the game, Search AppsGoer to get a full review.
Come and join the best Deus Ex: The Fall forum in hot discussion with a thousand others about any thing related to Deus Ex: The Fall. If you need an overall appraisal of the game, Search AppsGoer to get a full review.
No, but it does mean that you have a very, very high probability of being a person who pirates games. It's literally the number one reason people jailbreak.
It's literally not even in my top 166 reasons why I jailbroke:
0. 7-zip (POSIX)
1. Activator
2. AirBlue Sharing
3. AirBlue Stack
4. AirFloat
5. Airplane SBSettings Toggle
6. AnyAttach
7. AppInfo
8. AppList
9. APR (/usr/lib)
10. APT 0.6 Transitional
11. APT 0.7 (apt-key)
12. APT 0.7 HTTPS Method
13. APT 0.7 Strict
14. APT 0.7 Strict (lib)
15. AptBackup
16. AssistantEnhancer
17. AssistantExtensions
18. atom
19. Autolock SBSettings
20. Barrel
21. basic-cmds
22. Berkeley DB
23. BigBoss Icon Set
24. Bourne-Again SHell
25. Bridge
26. Bubbles Pro LivePaper
27. bzip2
28. CleverPin
29. Core Utilities
30. Core Utilities (/bin)
31. cURL
32. CustomSpotlightAction
33. CustomWidgetIcons
34. Cyueue
35. Darwin Tools
36. DataMonitor
37. Dater
38. Debian Packager
39. Debian Utilities
40. Default HD SBSettings
41. Diff Utilities
42. diskdev-cmds
43. Do Not Disturb Toggle
44. Earth LivePaper
45. Erica Utilities
46. evasi0n 6.0-6.1.2 Untether
47. Fast Forward
48. file-cmds
49. Find Utilities
50. Five Icon Dock
51. Five-Column SpringBoard
52. Flex
53. Flipswitch
54. FolderEnhancer
55. Forecast
56. Gawk
57. gettext
58. glib
59. GNU Cryptography
60. GNU Privacy Guard
61. GnuPG Errors
62. Gremlin Activities for iOS6
63. Gremlin Framework
64. Gremlin Plugin Pack
65. grep
66. gzip
67. Harlem Shake
68. iCaughtU Pro
69. iCleaner Pro
70. IconSupport
71. iFile
72. iForum
73. Insomnia
74. Insomnia Toggle
75. iOS 6 ColorfulStatusbar
76. iSHSHit
77. iSlideText
78. iWebSearch Pro
79. LayerSnapshotter
80. less
81. libaiml
82. libdisplaystack
83. libgpod
84. libhide
85. libid3tag
86. libplist
87. libstatusbar
88. libxml2
89. libxml2 Library
90. libzip
91. LivePapers
92. LZMA Utils
93. mDNSResponder
94. MFMusicLibrary.framework
95. Mobile Substrate
96. MobileTerminal
97. Music4Me
98. MxTube
99. My TraceRoute
100. My3G
101. myTunes
102. MyWi 6
103. MyWi 6.0 (iOS 6 Library)
104. MyWi OnDemand
105. N Stats for NotificationCenter
106. Net Talk Toggle
107. Netatalk
108. network-cmds
109. New Curses
110. Nexus LivePaper
111. Nitrous
112. NoCoverFlow
113. OpenBackup
114. OpenSSH
115. OpenSSL
116. PAM (Apple)
117. PAM Modules
118. PandoraSkips
119. pandy
120. pcre
121. pincrush
122. PreferenceLoader
123. Profile Directory
124. ProTube
125. ProTube HD
126. Pull To Dismiss
127. readline
128. RecordMyScreen (App)
129. SandCastle 2
130. SBSettings
131. sbsettingstoggles
132. sed
133. Serious SBSettings HD
134. shell-cmds
135. ShowCase
136. Shrink
137. Signal 2
138. SleepFX
139. SMS Timestamps
140. SpotDict
141. SpringBoardAccess
142. SpringFlash
143. Substrate Safe Mode
144. Swipebright
145. SwipeSelection
146. symbolicate
147. system-cmds
148. Tape Archive
149. top
150. UIKit Tools
151. Unfold
152. Universal TV
153. unrar
154. WebSearch
155. WeeLoader
156. WeePreferenceLoader
157. WeeSearch Pro for NotificationCenter
158. whois
159. WiFi Analyzer
160. WiFiFoFum
161. WinterBoard
162. xCon
163. YFiSelect 5.0+
164. YourTube for iOS6
165. Zephyr
If that list seems like a lot, it isn't, not compared to most jailbreakers I come across. That list doesn't include my own apps and tweaks that I side-loaded. I also have about 400 apps from iTunes on my iPhone that are either freeware or paid for.
Comments
Arguing that the loss of revenue is uncertain is not really relevant.
The fact is that it's still stolen property and the people who pirate the software have no right to it. If I own something, I have the right to control it and keep people from stealing it - even if they were not going to pay me money under any scenario. It's a simple property rights issue.
And even the argument that piracy might increase sales is irrelevant. Even if it were true (and the experience with the record industry suggests that it's not), I, as copyright owner, get to make the choice of whether I want to allow someone a free trial. The non-purchaser does not have the right to make that decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Yes, because you can add cool stuff Apple left off like an Internet browser.
Ah yes, the niche use cases for TV appliances. Clearly Apple is failing to compete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I think you are being too harsh and making some blanket statements that aren't supported by any facts.
...
The kind of person who generally does this is the kind of person who has no morals, and has committed many other minor or major crimes in their lives.
Perhaps you should follow your own advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Ah yes, the niche use cases for TV appliances. Clearly Apple is failing to compete.
Wow, way to pull the thread.
The point was made that most people jailbreak to pirate apps and that there weren't the same legitimate reasons to jailbreak anymore. This was countered with the fact that you don't need to jailbreak to pirate apps on iOS, and made further to the point that Apple TV 2nd Gen commands a higher price on eBay because it's capable of being jailbroken, despite the fact there are absolutely zero apps that can be pirated for it. While there are far fewer reasons to jailbreak an Apple TV than an iPhone or iPad, the reasons that remain are significant enough in the marketplace to result in a demand for the 2nd Gen and a bump in pricing for it. One person mentioned being able to install apps like an Internet browser, and you turned it into a sarcastic "Clearly Apple is failing to compete."
Nice job.
The point remains though. Clearly people are jailbreaking for reasons that have nothing to do with piracy. You can believe those of us who are saying this here or choose not to believe us because somehow we have incentive to lie. You can visit the top jailbreaking communities and see what they're talking about... and I dare you to mention piracy (see: http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/). You can search YouTube for videos or Google for articles showing all the reasons why people jailbreak that have nothing to do with piracy. You can look at jailbreak-only apps and services that used to exist for piracy that have all shut down, while services that don't require jailbreaking for piracy continue to operate. And you can look at the fact that enough people are jailbreaking the Apple TV, that the 2nd generation is commanding a higher price despite there being no apps to pirate for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
No, but it does mean that you have a very, very high probability of being a person who pirates games. It's literally the number one reason people jailbreak.
No. Not at all. There are MANY reasons to jailbreak aside from pirating. Examples include wanting to change your default web browser, wanting to tether on occasion without getting double-dipped by AT&T, wanting to customize your UI.
I have had 3 jailbroken phones and have never pirated an app. Why would I pirate? Most games are free and the few that are not only cost $1 or $2. It's not even close to being worth the trouble to pirate.
You guys are all assuming, without any data at all, that jailbreak = pirate. And that's just unadulterated B.S. Which is why these A.I. forums are such a laughingstock on other forums. A.I. has a lot of regulars who post before they think, if they think at all. It's pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
No, but it does mean that you have a very, very high probability of being a person who pirates games. It's literally the number one reason people jailbreak.
It's literally not even in my top 166 reasons why I jailbroke:
0. 7-zip (POSIX)
1. Activator
2. AirBlue Sharing
3. AirBlue Stack
4. AirFloat
5. Airplane SBSettings Toggle
6. AnyAttach
7. AppInfo
8. AppList
9. APR (/usr/lib)
10. APT 0.6 Transitional
11. APT 0.7 (apt-key)
12. APT 0.7 HTTPS Method
13. APT 0.7 Strict
14. APT 0.7 Strict (lib)
15. AptBackup
16. AssistantEnhancer
17. AssistantExtensions
18. atom
19. Autolock SBSettings
20. Barrel
21. basic-cmds
22. Berkeley DB
23. BigBoss Icon Set
24. Bourne-Again SHell
25. Bridge
26. Bubbles Pro LivePaper
27. bzip2
28. CleverPin
29. Core Utilities
30. Core Utilities (/bin)
31. cURL
32. CustomSpotlightAction
33. CustomWidgetIcons
34. Cyueue
35. Darwin Tools
36. DataMonitor
37. Dater
38. Debian Packager
39. Debian Utilities
40. Default HD SBSettings
41. Diff Utilities
42. diskdev-cmds
43. Do Not Disturb Toggle
44. Earth LivePaper
45. Erica Utilities
46. evasi0n 6.0-6.1.2 Untether
47. Fast Forward
48. file-cmds
49. Find Utilities
50. Five Icon Dock
51. Five-Column SpringBoard
52. Flex
53. Flipswitch
54. FolderEnhancer
55. Forecast
56. Gawk
57. gettext
58. glib
59. GNU Cryptography
60. GNU Privacy Guard
61. GnuPG Errors
62. Gremlin Activities for iOS6
63. Gremlin Framework
64. Gremlin Plugin Pack
65. grep
66. gzip
67. Harlem Shake
68. iCaughtU Pro
69. iCleaner Pro
70. IconSupport
71. iFile
72. iForum
73. Insomnia
74. Insomnia Toggle
75. iOS 6 ColorfulStatusbar
76. iSHSHit
77. iSlideText
78. iWebSearch Pro
79. LayerSnapshotter
80. less
81. libaiml
82. libdisplaystack
83. libgpod
84. libhide
85. libid3tag
86. libplist
87. libstatusbar
88. libxml2
89. libxml2 Library
90. libzip
91. LivePapers
92. LZMA Utils
93. mDNSResponder
94. MFMusicLibrary.framework
95. Mobile Substrate
96. MobileTerminal
97. Music4Me
98. MxTube
99. My TraceRoute
100. My3G
101. myTunes
102. MyWi 6
103. MyWi 6.0 (iOS 6 Library)
104. MyWi OnDemand
105. N Stats for NotificationCenter
106. Net Talk Toggle
107. Netatalk
108. network-cmds
109. New Curses
110. Nexus LivePaper
111. Nitrous
112. NoCoverFlow
113. OpenBackup
114. OpenSSH
115. OpenSSL
116. PAM (Apple)
117. PAM Modules
118. PandoraSkips
119. pandy
120. pcre
121. pincrush
122. PreferenceLoader
123. Profile Directory
124. ProTube
125. ProTube HD
126. Pull To Dismiss
127. readline
128. RecordMyScreen (App)
129. SandCastle 2
130. SBSettings
131. sbsettingstoggles
132. sed
133. Serious SBSettings HD
134. shell-cmds
135. ShowCase
136. Shrink
137. Signal 2
138. SleepFX
139. SMS Timestamps
140. SpotDict
141. SpringBoardAccess
142. SpringFlash
143. Substrate Safe Mode
144. Swipebright
145. SwipeSelection
146. symbolicate
147. system-cmds
148. Tape Archive
149. top
150. UIKit Tools
151. Unfold
152. Universal TV
153. unrar
154. WebSearch
155. WeeLoader
156. WeePreferenceLoader
157. WeeSearch Pro for NotificationCenter
158. whois
159. WiFi Analyzer
160. WiFiFoFum
161. WinterBoard
162. xCon
163. YFiSelect 5.0+
164. YourTube for iOS6
165. Zephyr
If that list seems like a lot, it isn't, not compared to most jailbreakers I come across. That list doesn't include my own apps and tweaks that I side-loaded. I also have about 400 apps from iTunes on my iPhone that are either freeware or paid for.