Here's somewhere that Apple can't ever afford to get rid of skeuomorphism. And here's whence Jony will be taking a leaf or two when iOS 7 doesn't pan out as well as he wants.
Logic is skeuomorphism done right. It always has been. So was iOS, mainly. I really don't think the drastic pendulum shift of iOS 7 was warranted across the board. They'll fix it in 8, though.
Correct about skeuomorphism in the case of Logic. Understanding UI function is essential for working musicians and engineers and having some kind of relation to "real world" equipment is a must. Musicians and artists need to focus on what they are making, not HOW it is being made.
There are many things iPad could do better if it had more processor power and especially more RAM. I'm really hoping that Apple addresses these two issues in the next iPad rev. Four cores and 2GB of RAM ought to make for a huge generational leap. I'm just not sure if Apple will have the process tech available to them to give use that for iPad 5.
I'd really like to see either an expandable memory card slot or much larger storage options for the next iPad. Those of us using the iPad to create final or "near final" quality audio, video, etc. need the freedom to make more complex and larger files.
In fact, for audio and video production an iPad sized more like a mid-sized synthesizer would be just about perfect. I'd love to have the extra width to see more waveform and MIDI information, and in the case of movie clips, more room means quicker editing options for longer projects... The iPad Pro X?
Mainstage downloaded really quick, but now it is downloading the instruments which will take about an hour.
Sounds exciting. I like the new drum options and I'm wondering when some if these new features will migrate to GarageBand. The Flex Pitch feature looks fantastic.
Here's somewhere that Apple can't ever afford to get rid of skeuomorphism. And here's whence Jony will be taking a leaf or two when iOS 7 doesn't pan out as well as he wants.
Well I will have to wait and see on that one as I refuse to run betas on my iOS devices. In some ways I use them more than my Mac now. The thing with skeoumorphism is that in many cases in iOS it did more harm than good. It isn't of much use for an Operating System.
Beyond that what will make or break iOS 7 for me is app functionality and compatibility across all devices. If Apple doesn't address app features this go around I will be very disappointed. This is especially the case when new sister apps for Mac OS are far more refined that their older iOS cousins.
Logic is skeuomorphism done right. It always has been. So was iOS, mainly. I really don't think the drastic pendulum shift of iOS 7 was warranted across the board. They'll fix it in 8, though.
I have to disagree with the iOS part above, in many cases the skeuomorphism was at best useless and at worst a big distraction in the various components of iOS.
As a side note many things are skeuomorphic even if not obvious. Spreadsheet apps like Numbers are in effect representations of manual methods of accounting that have evolved greatly since the paper solutions have been in use. Then thing is to what level do you go to in emulating that paper based concept. Little is added buy making the background look like paper. Further at some point it can actually hold up evolution of an app if to much focus is put on skeuomorphic design over new concepts. The example here is spreadsheets becoming part of a larger document with graphs and other included objects.
In the case of Logic Pro X it is pretty obvious that skeuomorphic design works well for a good part of the app after all you have to have some way of representing the tracks and the mixing consoles. Where it becomes a problem is when we have a focus on the emulation of outmoded concepts that might lead to a slow up in the apps evolution.
There are many things iPad could do better if it had more processor power and especially more RAM. I'm really hoping that Apple addresses these two issues in the next iPad rev. Four cores and 2GB of RAM ought to make for a huge generational leap. I'm just not sure if Apple will have the process tech available to them to give use that for iPad 5.
I think a better option would be for Apple to have a DSP chip in the iPad (either separate or even as part of the SoC) to handle audio processing. They did that in the 4S for Siri, why not expand it in the iPad to allow music production Apps to add effects without overloading the CPU?
Funny I was hearing the same things being said about Logic Pro before today. Aperture is fine and will get an update in due time. The thing most people don't grasp is that non trivial updates don't happen overnight, especially is good quality control is practiced.
It is fine that you don't want to layout cash for something you haven't seen before. The problem is grown ups find legal ways to test out something like Logic Pro X. For example look towards friends that use the app or even a studio that may have already converted for insight. Or for that matter drop by a local Apple Store.
It's a shame there's no way to demo the product before committing the money to it, and I won't buy it without opening up the hood and kicking the tires.
The best plug-in company out there, Universal Audio, lets you demo all of their plug-ins for 2 weeks. And not some lo-fi version or anything, but the complete, full-quality plug. They know they many of us become so enamored with their excellent plug-ins over the 2 weeks that we find we can't live without them and make the purchase. If more companies made truly great products, they would have no problem letting users demo them.
I'd really like to see either an expandable memory card slot or much larger storage options for the next iPad. Those of us using the iPad to create final or "near final" quality audio, video, etc. need the freedom to make more complex and larger files.
RAM limitations on the iPad still show up in user apps like Safari so I could imagine the issues pro users might have. Interestingly Apples approach (for now anyways) seems to be to use iPad as a terminal to hook into a desktop based system. I'm not sure that is a good thing but may be Apple simply acknowledging that the performance isn't there yet.
As to flash iPad needs across the board tripling of flash storage at the same price points. With the rapid drop in price of flash this should be very possible.
Of course doing this all at once has its own problems. Number one being power usage. This is why I mentioned the availability of process shrinks. A process shrink is needed to get to 4 cores and maintain power levels for example. I'm just not sure if iPad 5 will get a new node.
In fact, for audio and video production an iPad sized more like a mid-sized synthesizer would be just about perfect. I'd love to have the extra width to see more waveform and MIDI information, and in the case of movie clips, more room means quicker editing options for longer projects... The iPad Pro X?
Apple has been a bit slow coming out with new iPad hardware. They really need to consider a bigger unit. The problem here is going bigger yet keeping the size constrained enough to benefit from mass production. A 13" or so iPad with a wide aspect ratio would be very handy indeed.
Funny I was hearing the same things being said about Logic Pro before today. Aperture is fine and will get an update in due time. The thing most people don't grasp is that non trivial updates don't happen overnight, especially is good quality control is practiced.
Are you any kind of photographer at all? If so, you would say that. Stick to iPhoto aka iBloato and leave the pro apps to people who need them and know what they want.
The reality is that the ARM chip Apple uses does have some signal processing capability. It is hard to say exactly which ARM features Apple has implemented but at times I think it is all of them????????????. The problem with a DSP is that it isn't general purpose enough to offer a real advantage to all apps. With more ARM cores all apps benefit immediately (assuming they use Apples thread pool tech).
The other option is to employ more of the cores that are already there. That is use OpenCL on a GPU core. I haven't looked into this lately on iOS but I have to wonder if support will be coming in the next generation of hardware for iOS devices. This may be more than a generation out though as frankly the GPUs are heavily loaded now so we may not get far on current gen hardware.
The third possibility here is that Apple is already trying to address the cores issue with a different approach. Apple has hired more than a few AMD GPU engineers over the last few months/year which has me wondering just what they are up to. What is interesting here is that AMD is all in with respect to heterogeneous computing. I could see Apple delivering a new SoC highly optimized for heterogeneous computing, ideally one where the GPU can support many independent threads. Given that it is still likely that such a chip is years away, after all if hiring just started it could take 4-5 years to realize the design.
In any event I don't honestly think that anybody out there besides ARM has more engineers working on the guts of ARM chips right now than Apple. The latest "A" series chip was really a break through device for Apple and demonstrates some serious design skills. I just fear that we won't be seeing another design break through this year. As such the best we may be able to do is more cores or maybe a 64 bit chip. I'd love to see a GPU high optimized for heterogeneous computing but it just doesn't look like 2013 will deliver that beast.
I think a better option would be for Apple to have a DSP chip in the iPad (either separate or even as part of the SoC) to handle audio processing. They did that in the 4S for Siri, why not expand it in the iPad to allow music production Apps to add effects without overloading the CPU?
There are many ways to approach this issue, I just see it as pointless to whine about a company that doesn't support the method you want. Especially for an Apple product like Logic Pro X that is widely used. If you can't find a legal way to give it a test spin then frankly you as an individual have problems.
Beyond that for a professional in this industry Apple asking price is trivial. I've seen companies charge more than Apples asking price for demo / limited functionality apps.
The best plug-in company out there, Universal Audio, lets you demo all of their plug-ins for 2 weeks. And not some lo-fi version or anything, but the complete, full-quality plug. They know they many of us become so enamored with their excellent plug-ins over the 2 weeks that we find we can't live without them and make the purchase. If more companies made truly great products, they would have no problem letting users demo them.
I would call that good marketing on the part of Universal Audio! However there is no law that says every company must use the same marketing techniques. I just see the whole discussion of trial software to be completely out of place in this thread. Nothing about the feature set nor the pricing implies any need for a trial app.
I'm not sure why you came back with this response. There is nothing technically wrong with Aperture. Sure it can use an update but that will come in good time just like the new Logic Pro X update did.
It is interesting though that you call iPhoto - iBloato because if not done carefully all the features people claim they want in Aperture will lead to another bloat ware app. Aperture does what it was originally designed to do fairly well if you can stomach some of the design choices. It needs to evolve to support new use cases but that doesn't make this version significantly worst because it has yet to see that evolution.
Beyond all of that many users are perfectly fine with the current Aperture. Not everyone needs an app with everything but the kitchen sink in it. It would be interesting to see what you think is so important feature wise that it must be in Aperture before it is acceptable to you.
Are you any kind of photographer at all? If so, you would say that. Stick to iPhoto aka iBloato and leave the pro apps to people who need them and know what they want.
It's a shame there's no way to demo the product before committing the money to it, and I won't buy it without opening up the hood and kicking the tires.
Are you kidding? 199 dollars for Logic is dirt cheap. Had Apple kept their old pricing scheme, this software would be at least one thousand dollars.
There are plenty of articles and reviews out, and anybody should be able to make an informed decision before purchasing.
Many plug ins cost alot more than 199. 199 is nothing at all. It is the bargain of the century.
Comments
Correct about skeuomorphism in the case of Logic. Understanding UI function is essential for working musicians and engineers and having some kind of relation to "real world" equipment is a must. Musicians and artists need to focus on what they are making, not HOW it is being made.
Downloading Mainstage now will report on changes.
I'd really like to see either an expandable memory card slot or much larger storage options for the next iPad. Those of us using the iPad to create final or "near final" quality audio, video, etc. need the freedom to make more complex and larger files.
In fact, for audio and video production an iPad sized more like a mid-sized synthesizer would be just about perfect. I'd love to have the extra width to see more waveform and MIDI information, and in the case of movie clips, more room means quicker editing options for longer projects... The iPad Pro X?
Mainstage downloaded really quick, but now it is downloading the instruments which will take about an hour.
Sounds exciting. I like the new drum options and I'm wondering when some if these new features will migrate to GarageBand. The Flex Pitch feature looks fantastic.
Beyond that what will make or break iOS 7 for me is app functionality and compatibility across all devices. If Apple doesn't address app features this go around I will be very disappointed. This is especially the case when new sister apps for Mac OS are far more refined that their older iOS cousins.
I have to disagree with the iOS part above, in many cases the skeuomorphism was at best useless and at worst a big distraction in the various components of iOS.
As a side note many things are skeuomorphic even if not obvious. Spreadsheet apps like Numbers are in effect representations of manual methods of accounting that have evolved greatly since the paper solutions have been in use. Then thing is to what level do you go to in emulating that paper based concept. Little is added buy making the background look like paper. Further at some point it can actually hold up evolution of an app if to much focus is put on skeuomorphic design over new concepts. The example here is spreadsheets becoming part of a larger document with graphs and other included objects.
In the case of Logic Pro X it is pretty obvious that skeuomorphic design works well for a good part of the app after all you have to have some way of representing the tracks and the mixing consoles. Where it becomes a problem is when we have a focus on the emulation of outmoded concepts that might lead to a slow up in the apps evolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
There are many things iPad could do better if it had more processor power and especially more RAM. I'm really hoping that Apple addresses these two issues in the next iPad rev. Four cores and 2GB of RAM ought to make for a huge generational leap. I'm just not sure if Apple will have the process tech available to them to give use that for iPad 5.
I think a better option would be for Apple to have a DSP chip in the iPad (either separate or even as part of the SoC) to handle audio processing. They did that in the 4S for Siri, why not expand it in the iPad to allow music production Apps to add effects without overloading the CPU?
It is fine that you don't want to layout cash for something you haven't seen before. The problem is grown ups find legal ways to test out something like Logic Pro X. For example look towards friends that use the app or even a studio that may have already converted for insight. Or for that matter drop by a local Apple Store.
The best plug-in company out there, Universal Audio, lets you demo all of their plug-ins for 2 weeks. And not some lo-fi version or anything, but the complete, full-quality plug. They know they many of us become so enamored with their excellent plug-ins over the 2 weeks that we find we can't live without them and make the purchase. If more companies made truly great products, they would have no problem letting users demo them.
As to flash iPad needs across the board tripling of flash storage at the same price points. With the rapid drop in price of flash this should be very possible.
Of course doing this all at once has its own problems. Number one being power usage. This is why I mentioned the availability of process shrinks. A process shrink is needed to get to 4 cores and maintain power levels for example. I'm just not sure if iPad 5 will get a new node.
Apple has been a bit slow coming out with new iPad hardware. They really need to consider a bigger unit. The problem here is going bigger yet keeping the size constrained enough to benefit from mass production. A 13" or so iPad with a wide aspect ratio would be very handy indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So basically like nigh on every other piece of software, then.
Are you suggesting that other applications do not provide demos or trial periods?
*sniff* *looks around* *blink* *beat panel*
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Funny I was hearing the same things being said about Logic Pro before today. Aperture is fine and will get an update in due time. The thing most people don't grasp is that non trivial updates don't happen overnight, especially is good quality control is practiced.
Are you any kind of photographer at all? If so, you would say that. Stick to iPhoto aka iBloato and leave the pro apps to people who need them and know what they want.
The other option is to employ more of the cores that are already there. That is use OpenCL on a GPU core. I haven't looked into this lately on iOS but I have to wonder if support will be coming in the next generation of hardware for iOS devices. This may be more than a generation out though as frankly the GPUs are heavily loaded now so we may not get far on current gen hardware.
The third possibility here is that Apple is already trying to address the cores issue with a different approach. Apple has hired more than a few AMD GPU engineers over the last few months/year which has me wondering just what they are up to. What is interesting here is that AMD is all in with respect to heterogeneous computing. I could see Apple delivering a new SoC highly optimized for heterogeneous computing, ideally one where the GPU can support many independent threads. Given that it is still likely that such a chip is years away, after all if hiring just started it could take 4-5 years to realize the design.
In any event I don't honestly think that anybody out there besides ARM has more engineers working on the guts of ARM chips right now than Apple. The latest "A" series chip was really a break through device for Apple and demonstrates some serious design skills. I just fear that we won't be seeing another design break through this year. As such the best we may be able to do is more cores or maybe a 64 bit chip. I'd love to see a GPU high optimized for heterogeneous computing but it just doesn't look like 2013 will deliver that beast.
Beyond that for a professional in this industry Apple asking price is trivial. I've seen companies charge more than Apples asking price for demo / limited functionality apps.
I would call that good marketing on the part of Universal Audio! However there is no law that says every company must use the same marketing techniques. I just see the whole discussion of trial software to be completely out of place in this thread. Nothing about the feature set nor the pricing implies any need for a trial app.
It is interesting though that you call iPhoto - iBloato because if not done carefully all the features people claim they want in Aperture will lead to another bloat ware app. Aperture does what it was originally designed to do fairly well if you can stomach some of the design choices. It needs to evolve to support new use cases but that doesn't make this version significantly worst because it has yet to see that evolution.
Beyond all of that many users are perfectly fine with the current Aperture. Not everyone needs an app with everything but the kitchen sink in it. It would be interesting to see what you think is so important feature wise that it must be in Aperture before it is acceptable to you.
Are you kidding? 199 dollars for Logic is dirt cheap. Had Apple kept their old pricing scheme, this software would be at least one thousand dollars.
There are plenty of articles and reviews out, and anybody should be able to make an informed decision before purchasing.
Many plug ins cost alot more than 199. 199 is nothing at all. It is the bargain of the century.
Arpeggiator!!
WAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!