I would disagree with this statement. As described in my example above, it is very easy to package a web app into a frame which is basically nothing else than an embedded web browser component in order to make it available through the App Store or Cydia for that matter. In fact most "build your own app without knowing how to code" websites do it this way.
I think you're over-complicating things, to the point where definitions have no meaning.
I've used services that create apps that are in the iTunes store which are nothing more than a webkit wrapper, but again, that's a native app because... unlike a web app, you're possibly buying it, it's in iTunes or Cydia, you get app updates as opposed to server updates, and you aren't using Safari to access it.
Now, I've also coded in Xcode, and by no means would I compare what goes into each an Xcode app and a service that wraps HTML up int a native app, but that's all from a developer perspective. From a user perspective, if it's a web app, you know, go to Safari and enter the address. If it's a native app, go to the iTunes store or Cydia.
Having spent almost two decades creating such apps, I'd categorize them this way (and even this doesn't hit all the variations)...
[snip - actual definitions see OP]
I totally agree with those definitions and that there are more variations, but I think that's overwhelming for my mom. For her, and others like her, I'd go with the wikipedia definition and categorization of web app, "mom, tap the Safari icon" and native app, "mom, download this from iTunes". And really from the user's perspective that's all that's needed along with potential notifications when apps need to be online to run.
I think you're over-complicating things, to the point where definitions have no meaning.
I've used services that create apps that are in the iTunes store which are nothing more than a webkit wrapper, but again, that's a native app because... unlike a web app, you're possibly buying it, it's in iTunes or Cydia, you get app updates as opposed to server updates, and you aren't using Safari to access it.
Now, I've also coded in Xcode, and by no means would I compare what goes into each an Xcode app and a service that wraps HTML up int a native app, but that's all from a developer perspective. From a user perspective, if it's a web app, you know, go to Safari and enter the address. If it's a native app, go to the iTunes store or Cydia.
Fair enough, even though this definition is simply wrong from a technical perspective.
That being said, I'm realising that most people just simply call everything they can download from the store a native app. But then again, that doesn't make it right and considering the outcry some non-native apps cause, such as the old Facebook app, I think it is quite interesting to give this whole topic some more perspective.
Edit: I'm not sure changing these definitions because of users is such a good idea. At the end of the day whomever isn't interested doesn't need to bother. My mom for example would not use the term "web app" or "native app", she'd say "the internet is off" or "my email thingy is not working", totally ignorant of whether this happens in a browser or within an app she downloaded from the App Store.
Web app? That's means HTML 5, not a native iOS app using Apple's SDK, Cocoa, graphics libraries, etc... Facebook tried that, thinking it would be cheaper to develop iOS and Android apps from the same code base, and the result was poor performance and a lousy UX... Zuckerberg was right when he acknowledged that approach was a mistake, and Facebook went native...
The fact is, any serious iOS developer develops native apps, not web apps... Microsoft is not one of them...
We use Office 365 at work so I thought I'd try it. I entered my email address and password. Didn't work. I went to 'advanced', copied the setting from Mail on my iPhone. Didn't work because of an incompatible version of Office 365. Clicked the help link and it gave me this:
I can't find it, I search for outlook and microsoft outlook and it just returns a bunch of junk apps that are not from microsoft. Apple, your iphone store is unusable everytime I go on it I get pissed off. I should have never bought an iphone.
you seem like a pretty smart guy (?), why don't you go use one of the 500 android stores?
Or maybe try using the actual app name or the hotlink, both of which are in the article above? Duh!!! And you can blame the morons at MSFT for not actually putting the name "outlook" in their title, or at least tagging it!
I can't find it, I search for outlook and microsoft outlook and it just returns a bunch of junk apps that are not from microsoft. Apple, your iphone store is unusable everytime I go on it I get pissed off. I should have never bought an iPhone.
Mail, Voice search/dictation, Maps, Web Browsers and such "native" apps rely on a web server component -- so the distinction is a little bit fuzzy.
The first native iPhone app I wrote was an app that streamed Music Videos from a web server -- it was coded in Xcode, Installed on the iPhone, downloaded, then cached images and text descriptions of the Music Video files on startup. When the user selected a video, it would stream it from the web site...
I would certainly consider it to be a "native" iPhone app.
A native app is coded explicitly for the platform in question... in this case iOS.
A web app was coded for use on a web browser therefore cannot be native.
I can't find it, I search for outlook and microsoft outlook and it just returns a bunch of junk apps that are not from microsoft. Apple, your iphone store is unusable everytime I go on it I get pissed off. I should have never bought an iphone.
Something to think about:
1) Microsoft isn't calling this thing Outlook. The word "Outlook" doesn't appear anywhere in the product page. (Now, this is a mistake, IMO, because lots of third party mail programs have included "Outlook" as a keyword to snag people searching the App Store). But whatever. Microsoft didn't think to make it findable that way. Blame them.
2) The second thing you could have tried, based on the story above, is search for OWA (the official name of the app). It's mentioned several times in the story above. In fact, more popular sites like Verge keep calling it "Outlook Web App" and only mentioned OWA once in their story, whereas AppleInsider used the correct name several times in their article. (Surprised? I was ).
3) You could have clicked the link in the original article. Yes, I know. AppleInsider often doesn't make explicitly clear where their embedded hyperlinks go, like this--> Click here to open Microsoft OWA in iTunes.
4) Blaming the App Store search function. Hmm... now that's an interesting thought. The Search Engine Which Shall Not Be Named is getting pretty good at all kinds of "fuzzy" searches, so maybe we're getting spoiled by that and we find anything less dissatisfying. Think it can do better? Let's try searching for "Microsoft Outlook iPad app":
NOPE! It only finds Mail+ in the App Store, which is not the Microsoft app. So it did no better than Apple's App Store search. Can you really blame Apple?
Something to think about:
1) Microsoft isn't calling this thing Outlook. The word "Outlook" doesn't appear anywhere in the product page. (Now, this is a mistake, IMO, because lots of third party mail programs have included "Outlook" as a keyword to snag people searching the App Store). But whatever. Microsoft didn't think to make it findable that way. Blame them.
At a guess I'd say they gave it a slightly confusing name to lower the number of outlook.com users downloading it. I'd also guess that they are going to put a page on office 365 that links to it so office 365 users can find it.
I don't have office 365 so haven't actually tried the app, but looking at the screenshots it looks nice. Also seems a good way for users to separate their work emails from personal emails as iOS doesn't let you create additional mail icons for each mailbox.
Just tried it ......says it doesn't work with hotmail accounts?!...what are they doing? Another xbox one style stunt. Apples mail system works just fine of course but makes you wonder where microsoft's head is at.
Quite. Microsoft's resurgence will not happen unless they start to produce good experiences of their products. Thing is, it's never mattered before at MS. Turning that oil tanker around is going to take some doing.
The article in itself had a lot of BS concerning Microsoft at one time being the "ultimate cool" and of course "innovative"... blah, blah.
However, the "meat" of the article containing the process of 'stack ranking' and company inside politics being more important than the products themselves, seems to be alive and well today.
Give it a read if you have the time... also, quite a few Microsoft employees decided to leave comments and back up the claims made against MS.
* I came across this VF article after reading this article at stratechery: [URL=http://stratechery.com/2013/why-microsofts-reorganization-is-a-bad-idea/]Why Microsoft’s Reorganization Is a Bad Idea[/URL]. Main point of this article is that MS is no Apple, and it's too late now with the culture they have cultivated to change any time soon into becoming more like Apple. In fact, it may hasten MS's downfall. I don't necessarily think that is a good thing...:\
Just tried it ......says it doesn't work with hotmail accounts?!...what are they doing? Another xbox one style stunt. Apples mail system works just fine of course but makes you wonder where microsoft's head is at.
What are they doing? Quite clearly making an app for Office 365 customers. Why you think it would work with your Hotmail account I do not know. It's a bit like downloading the Lync app and stating that it doesn't work with messenger or Skype.
Apple's Mail app also does virtually everything Hotmail has so there isn't really a need to build an app to add missing functionality.
Yet another attempt by Microsoft to shove their garbage UI down the throats of people that didn't buy their OS.
Microsoft, if people wanted to see text clipped on the right edge of the screen, they'd buy your phones and tablets. But they aren't doing that, are they?
Design your iOS apps using iOS UI guidelines, please.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic
I would disagree with this statement. As described in my example above, it is very easy to package a web app into a frame which is basically nothing else than an embedded web browser component in order to make it available through the App Store or Cydia for that matter. In fact most "build your own app without knowing how to code" websites do it this way.
I think you're over-complicating things, to the point where definitions have no meaning.
I've used services that create apps that are in the iTunes store which are nothing more than a webkit wrapper, but again, that's a native app because... unlike a web app, you're possibly buying it, it's in iTunes or Cydia, you get app updates as opposed to server updates, and you aren't using Safari to access it.
Now, I've also coded in Xcode, and by no means would I compare what goes into each an Xcode app and a service that wraps HTML up int a native app, but that's all from a developer perspective. From a user perspective, if it's a web app, you know, go to Safari and enter the address. If it's a native app, go to the iTunes store or Cydia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Having spent almost two decades creating such apps, I'd categorize them this way (and even this doesn't hit all the variations)...
[snip - actual definitions see OP]
I totally agree with those definitions and that there are more variations, but I think that's overwhelming for my mom. For her, and others like her, I'd go with the wikipedia definition and categorization of web app, "mom, tap the Safari icon" and native app, "mom, download this from iTunes". And really from the user's perspective that's all that's needed along with potential notifications when apps need to be online to run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut
I think you're over-complicating things, to the point where definitions have no meaning.
I've used services that create apps that are in the iTunes store which are nothing more than a webkit wrapper, but again, that's a native app because... unlike a web app, you're possibly buying it, it's in iTunes or Cydia, you get app updates as opposed to server updates, and you aren't using Safari to access it.
Now, I've also coded in Xcode, and by no means would I compare what goes into each an Xcode app and a service that wraps HTML up int a native app, but that's all from a developer perspective. From a user perspective, if it's a web app, you know, go to Safari and enter the address. If it's a native app, go to the iTunes store or Cydia.
Fair enough, even though this definition is simply wrong from a technical perspective.
That being said, I'm realising that most people just simply call everything they can download from the store a native app. But then again, that doesn't make it right and considering the outcry some non-native apps cause, such as the old Facebook app, I think it is quite interesting to give this whole topic some more perspective.
Edit: I'm not sure changing these definitions because of users is such a good idea. At the end of the day whomever isn't interested doesn't need to bother. My mom for example would not use the term "web app" or "native app", she'd say "the internet is off" or "my email thingy is not working", totally ignorant of whether this happens in a browser or within an app she downloaded from the App Store.
The fact is, any serious iOS developer develops native apps, not web apps... Microsoft is not one of them...
Or maybe try using the actual app name or the hotlink, both of which are in the article above? Duh!!! And you can blame the morons at MSFT for not actually putting the name "outlook" in their title, or at least tagging it!
How about slimylosyer as a username instead?
from wikipedia:
Outlook Web App (OWA), originally called Outlook Web Access and before that Exchange Web Connect (EWC), is a webmail service of Microsoft Exchange...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Well...
Mail, Voice search/dictation, Maps, Web Browsers and such "native" apps rely on a web server component -- so the distinction is a little bit fuzzy.
The first native iPhone app I wrote was an app that streamed Music Videos from a web server -- it was coded in Xcode, Installed on the iPhone, downloaded, then cached images and text descriptions of the Music Video files on startup. When the user selected a video, it would stream it from the web site...
I would certainly consider it to be a "native" iPhone app.
A native app is coded explicitly for the platform in question... in this case iOS.
A web app was coded for use on a web browser therefore cannot be native.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormywyrm
I can't find it, I search for outlook and microsoft outlook and it just returns a bunch of junk apps that are not from microsoft. Apple, your iphone store is unusable everytime I go on it I get pissed off. I should have never bought an iphone.
Something to think about:
1) Microsoft isn't calling this thing Outlook. The word "Outlook" doesn't appear anywhere in the product page. (Now, this is a mistake, IMO, because lots of third party mail programs have included "Outlook" as a keyword to snag people searching the App Store). But whatever. Microsoft didn't think to make it findable that way. Blame them.
2) The second thing you could have tried, based on the story above, is search for OWA (the official name of the app). It's mentioned several times in the story above. In fact, more popular sites like Verge keep calling it "Outlook Web App" and only mentioned OWA once in their story, whereas AppleInsider used the correct name several times in their article. (Surprised? I was
3) You could have clicked the link in the original article. Yes, I know. AppleInsider often doesn't make explicitly clear where their embedded hyperlinks go, like this--> Click here to open Microsoft OWA in iTunes.
4) Blaming the App Store search function. Hmm... now that's an interesting thought. The Search Engine Which Shall Not Be Named is getting pretty good at all kinds of "fuzzy" searches, so maybe we're getting spoiled by that and we find anything less dissatisfying. Think it can do better? Let's try searching for "Microsoft Outlook iPad app":
NOPE! It only finds Mail+ in the App Store, which is not the Microsoft app. So it did no better than Apple's App Store search. Can you really blame Apple?
I don't have office 365 so haven't actually tried the app, but looking at the screenshots it looks nice. Also seems a good way for users to separate their work emails from personal emails as iOS doesn't let you create additional mail icons for each mailbox.
Quite. Microsoft's resurgence will not happen unless they start to produce good experiences of their products. Thing is, it's never mattered before at MS. Turning that oil tanker around is going to take some doing.
The article in itself had a lot of BS concerning Microsoft at one time being the "ultimate cool" and of course "innovative"... blah, blah.
However, the "meat" of the article containing the process of 'stack ranking' and company inside politics being more important than the products themselves, seems to be alive and well today.
Give it a read if you have the time... also, quite a few Microsoft employees decided to leave comments and back up the claims made against MS.
* I came across this VF article after reading this article at stratechery: [URL=http://stratechery.com/2013/why-microsofts-reorganization-is-a-bad-idea/]Why Microsoft’s Reorganization Is a Bad Idea[/URL]. Main point of this article is that MS is no Apple, and it's too late now with the culture they have cultivated to change any time soon into becoming more like Apple. In fact, it may hasten MS's downfall. I don't necessarily think that is a good thing...:\
Quote:
Originally Posted by btracy713
I just searched the App Store, it's not even there! Get your facts straight!
It is there, just hard to find. For iPhone, it's called 'OWA for iPhone' and is third hit in the App Store on iPhone if you search for 'OWA'.
Why MS would call it that is beyond me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtua
Just tried it ......says it doesn't work with hotmail accounts?!...what are they doing? Another xbox one style stunt. Apples mail system works just fine of course but makes you wonder where microsoft's head is at.
What are they doing? Quite clearly making an app for Office 365 customers. Why you think it would work with your Hotmail account I do not know. It's a bit like downloading the Lync app and stating that it doesn't work with messenger or Skype.
Apple's Mail app also does virtually everything Hotmail has so there isn't really a need to build an app to add missing functionality.
Yet another attempt by Microsoft to shove their garbage UI down the throats of people that didn't buy their OS.
Microsoft, if people wanted to see text clipped on the right edge of the screen, they'd buy your phones and tablets. But they aren't doing that, are they?
Design your iOS apps using iOS UI guidelines, please.
"Apple doesn't; why should we?"