Setting up a Web Site...?

algol · February 2, 2003 3:52PM

In the recent months we have become aware that a Web Site for our Business here would be very helpful. I have a few questions as to how we would set it up. I have never actually made a complicated web site before or ever actually hosted one myself. Obviously we would hire someone to create it for us etc. But...

We will have about 20GB of information that we will need to make available, and the site will need to be updated about twice a week. Would it be better to host the site here or by space on a server somewhere? I know enough about computers etc to keep it up, I would imagine, beyond the initial creation of the site.

Also, we have a cable modem that runs at 800kps and we use an older airport to send the signal to the other computers here. Would this be enough band width considering the other computers to run the web site efficiently? Is need be we can give the server it's very own Cable Modem, if that would help. Also we could get a new Airport Extreme if this would be a better choice. All we use the network for is file sharing and printer sharing, however, I'm sure the extra 33Mps of Airport Extreme would be useful.

Would we need to get Mac OS server to run the Website off of or would the regular OS be good enough. Remember this is going to be a rather large web site if we can get it all running right.

ThankYou

algol · February 2, 2003 6:20PM

Does no 0ne know this kind of stuff here?

ghost_user_name · February 2, 2003 6:38PM

The regular version of Mac OS X will handle that just fine. The only real difference between the regular and Server versions is that the Server version comes with a number of additional GUI tools for configuring a number of advanced options, many that have nothing to do with the web sharing anyway. You shouldn't need those extras. The standard install with Apache should be sufficient.

As for the amount of bandwidth, how much you need will depends on just how many people you expect to access it at once and just how much each person will typically be transferring.

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]

der kopf · February 2, 2003 6:43PM

It's rather late (for me, in Europe right now) so maybe I answer a bit more later, but just this: you have to try to foresee:

1) how many visitors you expect (per day, per hour, per anything)

2) how much resources you think these visitors will desire.

Simple example: you have 2 visitors per second. Suppose they all want to see an image of the day, a 20 kB gif. This means: you'll have to serve constantly at 40 KB/s. Now, you say you have a 800 Kbps cable modem. This is about 100 KB/s. I guess you don't have synchronous service on that line. Meaning you'll might only have some 50 KB/s upstream, or even less. You are already a bit tight, especiallly if there will regularly be peaks with 3 or 4 requests per second. But now you will use this same line to browse the internet: ouch! Your network will be clogged faster than you can bat an eye.

Of course, this is just an example, and doesn't need to be true. It goes to show the calculation/prediction you should make. Anyhow, I don't think serving yourself would be such a good idea. Of course, 20GB is very much, and will be costly if you want it hosted elsewhere.

As for the other questions, maybe tomorrow.

EDIT: crap. For what it's worth: I started writing this post before Brad had posted his.

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: der Kopf ]

algol · February 2, 2003 8:12PM

der kopf why would it not be a good idea to host it our selves? Is it just to much trouble or what. I'm just thinking considering the amount of data it would be rather expensive. Of course we don't have to make it that large if 20GB is to large we could narrow it down. Anyway I'm still in the bear bones of even thinking about it and just wanted all the info I could get from you guys to help me out. And more would be appreciated.

As far as bandwidth if we got a separate cable modem for the web server would that be enough. It's not like they will be downloading large amounts of data. This is going to be more of an archive.

the pie man · February 2, 2003 8:53PM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

 I have never actually made a complicated web site before or ever actually hosted one myself. Obviously we would hire someone to create it for us etc. But...

Would we need to get Mac OS server to run the Website off of or would the regular OS be good enough. Remember this is going to be a rather large web site if we can get it all running right.

ThankYou<hr></blockquote>

How important is this thing? If this is for your business, and people are going to be relying on this, don't host it yourself if you have no experience. That is asking for trouble.

If you are talking about setting up a web/mail/DNS server, that isn't for the faint of heart ifyou have no experience. Once you get some experience it isn't difficult, but it is an incredibly confusing black box until you get that experience.

OS X Server will allow you to set this up much easier than doing it by hand, but there is no reason you can't do it on vanilla X. I used to use OS X Server v10.1 and have since upgraded to vanilla 10.2.3... Apple Mail Server is a known weak link (depends on how demanding you are of your email server - it worked fine for me for the most part). If you go vanilla X, you are going to have to purchase a packaged email solution - mail servers are extremely complicated. If you can figure out Sendmail or Postfix, hats off to you. I tried but after 3 days ran out of time (I figured if I had 2 months I could get things running pretty smoove).

Are you willing to trust your ISP and cable connection? I have a server on a DSL (web, DNS, mail - small sites, not too important). My DSL is pretty solid (rock solid for a DSL - only time it goes out is when my power goes out), but at one company I work with their cable modem goes down regularly...

20GB of information - what kind of information are you talking about? That is pretty massive in web terms.

If you are looking for good, free DNS, check out

<a href="http://www.granitecanyon.com/"; target="_blank">Granite Canyon</a>. You can use them for your primary DNS server if you like (I use them for secondary myself).

If you are doing lots of file transfers on your wireless, don't put your server on it too. How much experience do you have with network security? If you do decide to do this yourself, that is also something you need to focus on, especially if you are on the same LAN as the rest of your office.

I just wrapped up a part time job with a small advertising company - they resell hosting services for some of their clients. If you are looking for a good host I would highly recommend <a href="http://www.combustionwebhosting.com"; target="_blank">Combustion Web Hosting</a>. I did quite a bit of research and moved them there (they were at RapidSite - worst host on the planet). Combustion - their service is solid, and their support is phenomenal.

All in all, considering how much hosting costs, it makes sense for a business to outsource unless they are large enough to have a good sysadmin who knows servers. If this is a pet project or a hobby, go for it. If your business relies on it, get someone who does it for a living.

the pie man · February 2, 2003 8:54PM

[quote]Originally posted by der Kopf:

[QBOf course, 20GB is very much, and will be costly if you want it hosted elsewhere.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Now that is a good point - hadn't thought about that. If you get a good host you might be able to work some kind of deal for space...

the pie man · February 2, 2003 8:57PM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

As far as bandwidth if we got a separate cable modem for the web server would that be enough. It's not like they will be downloading large amounts of data. This is going to be more of an archive.<hr></blockquote>

Do you know what the up speed is on that? I know Adelphia where I live limits upload speeds to 128k. That ain't gonna cut it.

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: The Pie Man ]

algol · February 2, 2003 10:52PM

Unfortunately, they seem to have it capped at 128K. That sucks! The Web site would be an archive for text documents. We are a research institute and would like to make our stuff available to others. This is not a web site that is really that important to our business or anything. It wouldn't really matter whether it goes down every now and then or not. We don't even really need it since our stuff gets posted all around the net anyway. I was hoping to host it here cause we could keep it updated easier etc. It really doesn't have to be 20GB we could just do certain aspects of our work and keep it at lets say 5GB would that be better? As far as money goes whatever it takes if we decide to do it. We haven't decided yet but money is not so much a problem if they decide. Anyway I'm not in charge I was just told to find some stuff out, and figured you guys would be a good place to start. If someone else hosts the site won't it be kind of hard to keep it updated twice a week? If not would the monthly price be better than doing it here? I guess though at only 128K upload we don't really have any other choice...

the pie man · February 2, 2003 11:13PM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

Unfortunately, they seem to have it capped at 128K. That sucks!

If someone else hosts the site won't it be kind of hard to keep it updated twice a week? If not would the monthly price be better than doing it here? I guess though at only 128K upload we don't really have any other choice...<hr></blockquote>

Yeah - 128 out isn't really gonna cut it for a real website - espeically one where people want to download large documents.

Keeping it updated on a remote server isn't really an issue except for the fact you have 128 out. I personally say look into hosting - the issue is going to be disk space, so you should definitely get in touch with a few and see if you can't work out a deal:

Try Combustion, Fluid Hosting, Superb. Also check out <a href="http://webhostingtalk.com/"; target="_blank">WebHosting Talk</a>. Thats a forum dedicated to web hosting.

the pie man · February 2, 2003 11:15PM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

 If someone else hosts the site won't it be kind of hard to keep it updated twice a week? <hr></blockquote>

The only thing that differs between hosting it locally and remotely is how long it takes to upload/modify documents on the site. Normally it isn't a big deal at all - it might be for you depending on how many weekly changes you are talking about (because of your upload bandwidth limitations).

algol · February 2, 2003 11:42PM

OK I will get in touch with some of those places tomorrow. Thanks for the info so far. Also do you think it would be possible to get that 128K cap pushed up? The "users" seem to like the idea of hosting it here. I suggested we buy space somewhere else, but I if we are going to do all our archives that would be expensive. I am just hoping to convince them some how. They are from the old world and don't really understand how useful a Web Site would be for their business. You know the kind. At least they are now asking about it, so I only hope to make it sound probable.

The updates twice a week should be under 10Mb so that really wouldn't be a problem. It seems that hosting the site out is really the better idea. I assume you guys agree? right.

roduk · February 3, 2003 6:51AM

I believe some ISPs prohibit you from hosting a web site on your own machine. It's probably just worth checking the ISP's terms and conditions to see if this applies in your case.

the pie man · February 3, 2003 7:29AM

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:

 Also do you think it would be possible to get that 128K cap pushed up? <hr></blockquote>

Unless they offer that service to the general public, I would be pretty amazed if a cable company would do that. Worth a shot I guess?

inactionman · February 3, 2003 8:08AM

If you're set on hosting the site yourself some ISPs offer different levels of service, including one for small businesses. In my area, there are three; the highest being for small businesses and offers speeds of 3Mbps/1.5Mbps. You should ask you service provider if they offer anything for small businesses. I imagine upload speeds of 150Kb/s would be sufficient.

algol · February 3, 2003 3:36PM

Well I know they have small business solutions. So maybe. I don't really mind where it is hosted. I only want to get all the options. IS there any other things that would be useful for us to know?

elric · February 3, 2003 4:20PM

This is what I would do. First I would create the site locally and get it set up like I wanted it (no sense paying for hosting while your developing it) Then once its completed and everyone approves run it from your site for a week or 2 and keep an eye on your logs to see just how much traffic it generates. Ask the people there to get on it and snoop around. Yes you have 20 gb of material but what % will any one person be looking at? Once I have a vague idea of what kind of bandwidth I need then I would look at the cost of the cable modem vs the cost of outside hosting.

algol · February 3, 2003 4:45PM

Cool beans!!! Thats a great idea!

Setting up a Web Site...?

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