Editorial: The mysterious failure of Microsoft's Surface RT

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  • Reply 241 of 347
    vvswarupvvswarup Posts: 333member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post





    Can you cite some actual examples of Apple statements or ads that convey the "smarmy attitude" you dislike? I don't think it's fair to blame one blogger's exuberance on Apple. I consider Apple's marketing to be very tasteful and reserved. The closest they came to attack ads was their "Mac vs. PC" campaign which was highly successful and used a bumbling but likable character to portray the "PC".



    As you later pointed out, it's Apple's competitors (Samsung, Microsoft, etc.) who are known for smarmy attack ads.




    Apple's advertising may not convey a "smarmy attitude" but Apple takes digs at the competition as much as the next company. They take digs at competitors during their product presentations. As an example, during the iPad 2 announcement, Steve Jobs said something to the effect of "Will 2011 be the year of the copycats?" Also, Phil Schiller pointed out several things he perceived as weaknesses in competing tablets when he unveiled the iPad Mini.

  • Reply 242 of 347


     


     


    Quote:


    Editorial: The obvious failure of Microsoft's Surface RT



     


    There, fixed that for you.

  • Reply 243 of 347
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post



    Part of what made the iPad work is that it was designed to be the computer device for those that don't really need a full computer.


     


    Exactly.  Also, the iPad was done at just the right consumer and technology time, at the right price.  And with a UI meant for fingers.


     


    If it had come out before millions of people were aware of smartphones and apps and the web and social networks, or without lots of available broadband (WiFi mostly), and especially if it was not brought out by Apple, or at the right price, few would've paid attention to it.


     


    Easy tablets had been talked about, and even tried before.  My favorite example was the Norwegian Freepad, which was designed in the late 1990s and attempted to break into the market in 2000.   It had a 10" screen, stereo speakers, wireless home comms, video conferencing, and touch friendly UI.


     



    As the Freepad designer said, "it must be so easy to use, that your grandmother can use it."  He even included a vetted app store.  In so many ways, it was just like the iPad (except it also had telephony), but unfortunately it was a decade too soon, and cost too much.


     


    But it had a good idea, which was to target a casual user's needs, something that Apple got right.

  • Reply 244 of 347

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    I didn't think the Surface was that bad.  The Surface RT was pretty worthless in my opinion.  For a laptop replacement the Surface Pro is needed for the corporate environment.  


     


    I'm hoping Microsoft won't just give up and instead try again making improvements to the hardware and OS.  With corporations they might find a good following eventually.  Microsoft's cash cows seem to be on a slow spiral down with no near term fix.



    I don't agree with the laptop replacement.   why not then a laptop?   Corp America still has mainframes... it doesn't deinvest from new technology that quickly.  The race to the bottom has laptops priced the same as the Surface Pro, and there is no learning curve.  For 'replacement,' corporates like plug and play.


     


    'Needed' is a strong term.   The iPad (fully touch/motion interface now... evolving to a voice/touch/motion (and likely visual) as Siri and other technologies mature) is a not a replacement but an evolution/confluence like pagers to blackberrys were in the 90's and 00's and into Smart phones now. 


     


    The key with iPad in reestablishing eye-hand navigation, vs   memorized key locations and the one off of mousing to move something.   The reason why touch/iOS is working is that it's such a primitive form of human (primate) interaction... see-touch.   Yes, human higher cognition (I'm typing this without looking at the keyboard because I've learned where keys are in relation to each other) allows more complicated interaction, but freeing ourselves from that rote skill allows our minds to do other things, and allow us to 'work' in our environment with less start up knowledge investment.


     


     


     


    BTW, IBM got out of the PC business at nearly their peak.  MS is trying to be a 'startup' within a corporate culture that has got lucky one 30 years ago in its startup mode.  Other than Xbox which took 8 years of 'angel funding' to break even, MS has had a horrible record on launching (not buying) new products/divisions.    The corporate money is in consulting and outsourcing data center services.   Microsoft would do well to do the same, and just be the best MS 'backoffice' consulting firm in the world, spin off office365.com as a standalone company, and plan on the obsolescence of windows as a real tangible product (windows as a cloud service... yes. as a SKU at bestbuy or a corporate license... no).

  • Reply 245 of 347
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


     


    You seem to have no idea that corporate USA buys the MBA and either loads Win 7 or leaves OSX on it. Corporate USA is not ready (if ever) to have WIN 8 running anywhere they can avoid it. 


     


    Besides, the Surface Pro is a poor laptop and an even poorer tablet. The Surface RT does make a rather decent door stop.



     


    That may be true at some companies but is not the trend with buying Macs and putting Win7 on it.  The last two employers I've been with (one 50k employees and my current of 6k) allow executives to run what they pretty much want to.  That has required Exchange 2010 to support the Macs that the execs claim they need. If they want the latest Dell XPS transforming laptop or a Surface then they can get that.


     


    Windows 8 is a requirement to run RSAT (remote server administration tools), so I'm not sure where you get your information from.  When deploying Windows Server 2012 that is a must to have especially if your domain controllers are on 2012 as ours are.  Corporate USA is ready when they are willing to invest in migrating.  If there's no compelling reason then XP or Windows 7 is fine - hopefully the latter.  BTW, my current employer is about half Macs.

  • Reply 246 of 347

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markbriton View Post





    Since you asked so nicely, I quickly read through it again and copied the obvious sarcasm:





    Incredibly, it turned out pretty much nobody wanted to be the guinea pig tasked with beta testing Honeycomb tablets...



    The icing on top would be that this new Surface would adopt the Metro user interface...



    Surely the third time around would be the Charm, especially if it were forced upon the entire Windows 8 PC audience as well...



    Windows users were so graciously welcoming of the even less significant changes bundled with Windows Vista in 2006.



    I mean, really. Quite inconceivable.



    What a paragon of operational competence that product demonstrates.


     


    Interesting.


     


    As a former editior, I would admit that a couple of the above could example sarcasm. However, certainly not overtly stated, or frequency.


     


    If there are any examples true sarcasm*, it seems to come for a vitriolic trolls that can't wait for anyone to be positive about Apple…


     


     


    * Quote:


    Irony employed in the service of mocking or attacking someone is sarcasm. Saying "Oh, you're soooo clever!" with sarcasm means the target is really just a dunderhead.


    Sarcasm is sometimes used as merely a synonym of irony, but the word has a more specific sense: irony that's meant to mock or convey contempt. This meaning is found in its etymology. In Greek, sarkazein meant "to tear flesh; to wound." When you use sarcasm, you really tear into them. A clever person coined the variant spelling sarchasm (a blend of sarcasm and chasm) and defined it as "the gap between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it."



  • Reply 247 of 347
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,415member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ABiggerKid View Post


    I don't think "innovation" works like that. I don't think the iPad was born out of "what innovation are we currently lacking in iPhone" thinking. Everyone laughed at it as an overgrown iPod touch when it launched.


     


    I like an interesting ecosystem of devices, most of which will fall beside the wayside. I think Windows RT/8 have some nice ideas such as live tiles and a flexible way of dividing the screen between apps so you can do real multitasking.


     


    And I did start off by saying that I like my iPad, so I'm hardly an Apple hater.



     


    I was just thinking, "I wonder how a corporate shill might go about getting Apple fans to pay any attention to their misinformation and propaganda?" And then I thought, "I know! Create a new user profile on an Apple-themed blog and pretend that I'm an Apple fan with 'constructive criticism'." 


     


    Today's vocabulary words:


    shilling, astroturfing, sockpuppeting


     


    Suggested Reading:


     


    Samsung admits to astroturf attacks on HTC in Taiwan


    http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/04/17/taiwanese.fair.trade.commission.investigating.htc.likely.to.respond/


     


    Microsoft Contractors Are Manipulating Comments About Xbox One On Reddit


    http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-positive-reddit-comments-2013-6


     


    Microsoft Hires Victoria's Secret Models To Shill For Bing


    http://www.businessinsider.com/victorias-secret-models-shill-for-bing-2010-2


     


    Microsoft and Nokia Caught AstroTurfing, Abusing/Attacking Genuine Posters


    http://techrights.org/2011/12/26/microsoft-and-nokia-astroturf/

  • Reply 248 of 347
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    mgabrysphx wrote: »
    Oh, I'm sorry, are you done comparing the iPad to feminine hygiene products, or did you want to wait till Apple sold another hundred-million, or until Microsoft lost another billion trying to make their knockoff of Apples "useless" product. XD

    Your tears taste delicious.

    I think you misquoted me. Just wanted to give you a warm heads up. ^_^.
  • Reply 249 of 347
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    This reads like an astroturfing post.  I mean you cover all the points MS says to in their guidelines on it. 

    - slight criticism of MS product just to show you're "fair" (but ensure to end or bookend each one of those statements with a positive.)
    - slight praise of Apple's products (but be sure to end or bookend with slight criticism.)
    - claim that "regular person" (grandma, kid) can use it and actually likes it
    - overall impression is definitely "thumbs up"
    - caveat that your a tech person (cause the audience will know anyway), that sets you up as "different," but also an expert (without having to say you're an expert)
    - formatted in MS Word

    In short, the humble but open-minded expert with the contrary opinion.  Barf. 
    You win the douche of the week with your post.
  • Reply 250 of 347
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    freediverx wrote: »
    Can you cite some actual examples of Apple statements or ads that convey the "smarmy attitude" you dislike? I don't think it's fair to blame one blogger's exuberance on Apple. I consider Apple's marketing to be very tasteful and reserved. The closest they came to attack ads was their "Mac vs. PC" campaign which was highly successful and used a bumbling but likable character to portray the "PC".

    As you later pointed out, it's Apple's competitors (Samsung, Microsoft, etc.) who are known for smarmy attack ads.

    He's most likely referring to the horrendous Apple community that permeate Apple blogs. Not the company itself which has sincere marketing and messaging most of the time. I've seen the Microsoft fanboys, I've seen the Android fanboys. But nothing is quite like the Apple people, not even close. It's like taking a trip through Foxnews comments from a few years ago. I'm addicted to reading the stupid though, it's very entertaining. This is my reality TV.
  • Reply 251 of 347
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    Go away. :no:

    You need to kiss a girl Tallest.
  • Reply 252 of 347
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,415member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    There have been MS tablets for years, so how are they copying Apple?


    Poorly.

  • Reply 253 of 347
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,415member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post


    The only mysterious parts is how they managed to get a decent ad out with it....



     


    Original tablet (MS versus Apple only) was running Windoze.  Sorry.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers#Early_tablets




    -QAMF



     


    1993     Apple Newton


    2000     Microsoft coins the term "Microsoft Tablet PC"


     


    Where do you see a reference to a Windows-based tablet pre-1993?

  • Reply 254 of 347
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    BTW, IBM got out of the PC business at nearly their peak.  MS is trying to be a 'startup' within a corporate culture that has got lucky one 30 years ago in its startup mode.  Other than Xbox which took 8 years of 'angel funding' to break even, MS has had a horrible record on launching (not buying) new products/divisions.    The corporate money is in consulting and outsourcing data center services.   Microsoft would do well to do the same, and just be the best MS 'backoffice' consulting firm in the world, spin off office365.com as a standalone company, and plan on the obsolescence of windows as a real tangible product (windows as a cloud service... yes. as a SKU at bestbuy or a corporate license... no).

    Interesting idea, it's amazing how we are coming full circle with using dumb terminals again. I work for the largest bank in Switzerland and 5th in the world, we are currently migrating almost every department to a Sun Ray and/or Chromebox dumb terminal solution, Instead of purchasing Office Licenses for everyone we have also started to use Office 365 a lot more. The Trading, IT and Programming departments still have standalone PC's as they need a little more power and flexibility, especially the traders running 9 to 12 monitors. So your idea may work for some, I don't expect Windows Server or Exchange to go anywhere though.

    I know the Chromebox sounds weird but it actually makes an awesome dumb terminal, we are a predominantly Unix environment, so the terminal software is perfect and Citrix has a great client for it, that and many of our internal apps are now web based. These are on a secure Internal network so Google can't track them, just saying before I get a bunch of silly comments.
  • Reply 255 of 347
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post





    Or maybe they need to start copying Apple. Instead of this nonsense of putting a computer OS into tablet form which is weird as heck to use perhaps MS needs to take a hard look at what makes the iPad work for buyers and copy it.



    Part of what made the iPad work is that it was designed to be the computer device for those that don't really need a full computer. But with enough added power that if someone wanted to find a way to do more with what they had, go for it. Another part is that Apple created a fork of their OS that fits the form, rather than shoving in a traditional OS and UI and getting it to work with some page clips and duct tape. Having an App Store that could be used with the 2x zoom until developers got their apps to form also didn't hurt.


    If you don't use the desktop app, Windows 8/RT feels hardly like a desktop OS grafted onto tablets. Some mouse and keyboard users complain about the metro UI because it's designed for touch. MS just needs to make sure that users can work entirely in metro if they want, and make opening the desktop app completely optional.

  • Reply 256 of 347
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    freediverx wrote: »
    1993     Apple Newton
    2000     Microsoft coins the term "Microsoft Tablet PC"

    Where do you see a reference to a Windows-based tablet pre-1993?

    The Newton wasn't a tablet but a PDA and for that I would have to give Psions Series 3 or the HP 95LX the crown for being one of the firsts. I liked the Newton a lot but the real champion of the PDA era would definitely have to be the Psion Series 5MX, they outsold the Newton 10 to 1 and were just awesome. I still have one somewhere in my bomb shelter. Microsoft were really the first to push the idea of the Tablet. They were crap but first. I did kind of like my NEC VersaPad, not enough to keep it though.

    1000

    1000
  • Reply 257 of 347
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 661member


    Mysterious?  Not sure that's the word you're looking for.  MS is a company now habitual in its ability to watch glazed-eyed as Apple hits a mark that MS never knew existed, then arrogantly express disdain for Apple's successful approach, then move into the market years late with an underwhelming offering poured through manifold channels accompanied by inscrutable marketing... it would only be a mystery if they succeeded.  


     


    I heard David Brooks today talk about how the old Soviet system used to say they could crank out millions of pedestrian guns, cars, etc.  But that they also admitted they really didn't make anything new, and the US via Silicon Valley ate their lunch in terms of new markets.  Looks like that's a valuable comparison here between MS and Apple.  


     


    They hit a sweet spot in game consoles, albeit when SEGA departed the HW market and Nintendo ran in place for a bit / hit the handheld market.  


     


    They may learn the hard way that splitting one OS to two platforms may be less productive than converging two OSs into a single ecosystem.  


     


    I must once again admit my reaction to the original iPod launch video was "meh".  And having an original iPod, if anyone told me they this thing would one day beget a descendent that could replace my "computer" I'd've laughed at them.  The road is littered with the wrecks of smaller companies that underestimated Apple's ability to think outside the box.  MS just happens to have enough money to drive a lot further than most of the rest.  

  • Reply 258 of 347
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,415member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Well, I think this is exactly why Surface RT has Office on it.  The only other alternative is to make lite, clean versions of Office apps for ARM, and if they do that, then they would work on iOS and who would buy a Surface?  I think it's the same pickle Blackberry is in.  They always knew they could get a lot more revenue by making BBM available on iOS and Android, but it removes the reason to buy their hardware, thus, it's a last resort strategy (which I think they are doing now since they are circling the drain). 


     


    Word for iOS would sell like proverbial hotcakes.  I would buy it even if it was twice the price of Pages and I hate Microsoft and don't really like using Word.  I don't think it will ever happen though as they are already moving to the cloud. This is possibly why Pages for iCloud is rumoured to be free when it comes out of Beta.  Why pay for a 360 subscription if Pages is free in the cloud and a $10.00 one time download on iOS?  


     


    Microsoft is doomed. image (in the consumer market)



     


    Unless my guess is wrong, I suspect the main reason you think you want Word for iOS is for full compatibility with Word for Windows documents. Unfortunately, the reality is that such a product - if MS ever released it - would likely only have partial compatibility with Word docs, with advanced features and formatting likely lost or corrupted in the transfer.


     


    Think about how every time you try to edit and re-save an older Word document into the newer file format you get a warning that some formatting features may be lost. The same applies across all Office products. This is the reason why I don't hold it against iWork that some documents convert poorly between its apps and Office.


     


    In other words, the only way to guarantee document compatibility across different devices and software versions is to always save in an older format. With this in mind, you might as well use iWork which is cheaper, has a better interface, and can also import/export into common MS Office file formats with the above-mentioned limitation.

  • Reply 259 of 347
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,415member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    The Newton wasn't a tablet but a PDA and for that I would have to give Psions Series 3 or the HP 95LX the crown for being one of the firsts. I liked the Newton a lot but the real champion of the PDA era would definitely have to be the Psion Series 5MX, they outsold the Newton 10 to 1 and were just awesome. I still have one somewhere in my bomb shelter. Microsoft were really the first to push the idea of the Tablet. They were crap but first. I did kind of like my NEC VersaPad, not enough to keep it though.









     


    LOL! This was my first "PDA":


     


     


     


  • Reply 260 of 347


    I totally agree with those sentiments.


     


    Moreover, when the iPhone was first released it was only an EDGE device at a time when I owned a HTC 3G Touch-screen phone, the App Store had not yet been envisioned, and the $500-600 device was not subsidized.


     


    Bottom line: Steve Jobs & Company didn't get it right the first time around. It was a full year before the App Store arrived, the faster iPhone 3G was introduced, and the price dropped by more than 50% due to a generous subsidy from AT&T.


     


    Why exactly does this Apple Insider author believe that Microsoft should be held to higher standard?


     


    Few companies get it totally right the first time around.  That's why some technology consumers have a strict policy of never buying version 1 of anything.  That policy sure worked well for me when I deferred my first iPhone purchase for a full year.

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