I'm in shock but I have to agree 100% with Tallest here. It will be an extremely long time before automatic driving is as reliable as human drivers in all the varying conditions the average car might see. At best we might get collision avoidance technology really soon. With so many crashes the results of idiots on their phone running red lights such technology would pay off very quickly.
I think you contradicted yourself : )
is as reliable as human drivers
crashes the results of idiots
Living in California, I have to say there are more bad drivers than good.
As an external observer who has been a provider of resources to the highway data collection industry for over 25 years, I know many of the existing players and their approach to getting a foothold in the dashboard of our cars. If it was up to the auto industry, they would lock out all of the outside technology companies because there is a lot riding on who controls the interface between the driver and the car. It will be very easy to monetize this.
Apple's late entry into the game is actually going to give it a great advantage. They can now set the bar in a way that it creates a new paradigm and they don't have to be burdened by carrying legacy methodologies and software into the game as Microsoft and Google do. Apple Maps in iOS 6 looked like a failure to some but to the keen eye, one could see the underpinnings of Apples advantage. There was never anything wrong with the mechanism they created. The only weakness was the lack of depth in the data that they were portraying.
Take a look at them in iOS 7 and you will see that they have overcome that hurdle and are producing a pretty incredible experience for the end user. I originally thought that the former Navteq/Nokia Location and Commerce Division, now called "Here," was going to be purchased to fill that void. Apple won't need make that deal to get into a position of superiority over the other players.
The thing that really gives Apple an advantage is the success of the iPhone. If they can convince the car companies to give them a connection interface to the existing display and controls in the car, the installed base can bring the computing horsepower to the dashboard through their own iPhones. It makes it easy for both Apple and the Manufactures to get this up and running very quickly.
exactly!
Siri Eyes Free in iOS 6 is just now appearing in new car models, but it's a voice UI/audio content only. i guess what is new about iOS Car in iOS 7 is that it adds the touchscreen UI/visual display to this, right? thus being able to provide more services of course that need a display, like maps.
It's crummy everywhere. Unless you like unbathed hipsters, and peddlers.
I imagine it depends on your neighborhood. If you live amongst unbathed hipsters you will travel with unbathed hipsters.
In the part of Vancouver I used to live in transit was a nightmare because it was always overcrowded, which meant standing in the rain as bus after bus drove by without even stopping because they were full -- and full of yucky people to boot.
Since moving to a less central location, still in the same city, my transit experience has been quite pleasant.
I hope you're wrong here. Self driving cars cannot come fast enough for me. I'd love to be able to sit in the car and just read a book on the way to work
How is my idea more distracting? Currently, people drive an check Facebook, texts, and more on their phones. So it's better to check your phone than have Siri read it to you while your eyes are on the road? Maybe you don't have kids or don't deal with teenagers or young adults, but that's the case.
Heck- in the states and cities phones are banned from being used while driving, people now just use them on their laps so they dont get caught instead of by their steering wheel, making it even worse!
Moreover, all the technology I mentioned already exists, just not in an attractive, cohesive, and easy to use format.
I am a bit disappointed in the build quality of my 2012 BMW. The fit and finish is not very good. The paint is terrible - orange peel is hideous. A lot of cheap plastic parts. I think I will look into buying one of those Austrian made Mercedes old school SUVs not sure what the model name is. Of course I already have an SUV so I don't really need another one but...
Hm, depends on the series, really. The new 1- and 3-series models (except for the GT) do indeed have cheaper-looking plastic parts standard. And I agree that this was a crap idea. But it seems that this was the result of some market research. They made some other, previously paid, options standard to somehow compensate for that (e.g. the 1-series in Europe now has A/C, powered windows in the rear, eco/sport drive mode selection and a vastly improved automatic gear shift, 8 gears iso 6). I still think taking away from the premium feel is something they shouldn't have done.
I went for a 6-series model in 2012 (I had the original 635 csi back in 1985 and always wanted one again) and the interior is certainly top notch, same goes for the 5- and 7-series models we have in our company. But I agree, even the "lower" models should maintain some differentiation to the Japanese and worse rice burners.
I assume you mean the G-Class Mercedes (or Puch in the Austrian variant) SUV? That is a great off road car, but the inside is pretty bare bones and it is quite noisy inside. Considering it is in a similar price range (here at least) to a BMW X5 or a Porsche Cayenne, it would not be my first choice (unless I would drive off road most of the time, in which case it would be my first choice).
I just hope that Apple allows third-parties, such as Alpine and Kenwood, to make receivers that support this. If you have to buy a new car to get it, that seriously limits both the appeal and the potential audience for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Basically- Apple needs to make head units.
I have wondered for years why Apple DOESN'T make a head unit? It just seems like such an easy market to penetrate and almost instantly dominate. Is there something I'm missing?
This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.
Oh sure, iOS devices are only supported by 95% of cars on the roads now.
The real test of self driving cars will come the first time one is involved in an accident where life was lost. It's not a technical issue, per se; but a social and legal issue. Who will bear liability? Is the owner of the car liable? Is the manufacturer? Is the creator of the software? These are very practical matters that are not easily addressed by a simple stroke of a pen in some legislation allowing them on the road.
Also, what happens the first time someone hacks one of these remotely and someone is hurt or worse? It's already feasible to hack existing vehicles to cause brakes to be disabled (by causing the ABS to detect a nonexistent lockup and bleeding off all the brake pressure); but it generally requires a dongle to be installed on the OBDII port.
Are you SERIOUS? Microsoft Sync is the worst abomination I've ever seen for car technology of ANY kind. I've rented 3 Fords in the last year and it never ceases to amaze me that NOTHING can be done with Microsoft Sync that doesn't require going down thru 2, 3, 4 or more levels of menus, using cryptic buttons on the control panel. The "features" may be there, but good luck getting to them. This is Windows 8 in a car, but much worse. Technology designed by committee, as only Microsoft can do it.
Oh no kidding. It's pathetic. Worse than texting & driving. No way you can locate anything you haven't done 1,000x before without pulling over on to the shoulder.
Siri will blow Microsoft Sync away - it's made for the car.
The auto industry is not shy about switching horses in mid-stream. An earlier poster seemed to think Apple (or anyone new) would not be able to "crack" the market, due to embedded vendors and old decisions. Neither of those are significant barriers to entry.
If you had a rear-view mirror that could reflect the scene behind the car for 10¢ less than their current mirror, all auto manufacturers would switch to save that dime. There's little that's sacred in the car business... except of course that Japanese auto builders make their engines exclusively in Japan, and probably always will, regardless of costs.
From the article: "...there has been increasing interest by government safety officials to reduce the dangers of distracted driving."
Quote:
From the article: "...get your iMessages right on the screen of your car,"
And in Utah, for example, reading and sending messages can get you a $1500 fine and other penalties... ...so this seems a bit of a sticky wicket....
Also from the article, the screen shot of the John Appleseed call looks like a combo of facebook Home and Win 8's "Modern" UI.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittsend
Are you SERIOUS? Microsoft Sync is the worst abomination I've ever seen for car technology of ANY kind. I've rented 3 Fords in the last year and it never ceases to amaze me that NOTHING can be done with Microsoft Sync that doesn't require going down thru 2, 3, 4 or more levels of menus, using cryptic buttons on the control panel. The "features" may be there, but good luck getting to them. This is Windows 8 in a car, but much worse. Technology designed by committee, as only Microsoft can do it.
FTR, if it's based on Win Mobile CE, more 6.5 than 8....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I think that's more to do with slow to improve battery technology than any kind of conspiracy.
Even in a modern electric car the battery is still huge. See the battery being inserted in to this Chevy Volt at the 0:55 mark:
Also the charging infrastructure. If you live on the third (or 23rd) floor of an apartment building and/or don't have a ton of time to sit at a charging system (which 99% or more likely is nowhere near you as you read this - and would need mucho space for mucho cars) what are you going to do with an electric (non-hybrid) vehicle???
Big difference. Those are standalone devices, but this is built into a car. I just can't see someone NOT buying a BMW because it has iDrive and not iOS in the car.
I am someone who would do that. I want my car to integrate with the info on my phone. I believe that iOS is more stable and robust than Windows 8 Phone and Android. If a car manufacturer does not offer smartphone integration then their cars drop off my list. if they do offer integration but not iOS then I would be suspect of the competence of that car manufacturer and this would cause me to think hard about not purchasing a car from them.
I am someone who would do that. I want my car to integrate with the info on my phone. I believe that iOS is more stable and robust than Windows 8 Phone and Android. If a car manufacturer does not offer smartphone integration then their cars drop off my list. if they do offer integration but not iOS then I would be suspect of the competence of that car manufacturer and this would cause me to think hard about not purchasing a car from them.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I'm in shock but I have to agree 100% with Tallest here. It will be an extremely long time before automatic driving is as reliable as human drivers in all the varying conditions the average car might see. At best we might get collision avoidance technology really soon. With so many crashes the results of idiots on their phone running red lights such technology would pay off very quickly.
I think you contradicted yourself : )
is as reliable as human drivers
crashes the results of idiots
Living in California, I have to say there are more bad drivers than good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospatial
As an external observer who has been a provider of resources to the highway data collection industry for over 25 years, I know many of the existing players and their approach to getting a foothold in the dashboard of our cars. If it was up to the auto industry, they would lock out all of the outside technology companies because there is a lot riding on who controls the interface between the driver and the car. It will be very easy to monetize this.
Apple's late entry into the game is actually going to give it a great advantage. They can now set the bar in a way that it creates a new paradigm and they don't have to be burdened by carrying legacy methodologies and software into the game as Microsoft and Google do. Apple Maps in iOS 6 looked like a failure to some but to the keen eye, one could see the underpinnings of Apples advantage. There was never anything wrong with the mechanism they created. The only weakness was the lack of depth in the data that they were portraying.
Take a look at them in iOS 7 and you will see that they have overcome that hurdle and are producing a pretty incredible experience for the end user. I originally thought that the former Navteq/Nokia Location and Commerce Division, now called "Here," was going to be purchased to fill that void. Apple won't need make that deal to get into a position of superiority over the other players.
The thing that really gives Apple an advantage is the success of the iPhone. If they can convince the car companies to give them a connection interface to the existing display and controls in the car, the installed base can bring the computing horsepower to the dashboard through their own iPhones. It makes it easy for both Apple and the Manufactures to get this up and running very quickly.
exactly!
Siri Eyes Free in iOS 6 is just now appearing in new car models, but it's a voice UI/audio content only. i guess what is new about iOS Car in iOS 7 is that it adds the touchscreen UI/visual display to this, right? thus being able to provide more services of course that need a display, like maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
It's crummy everywhere. Unless you like unbathed hipsters, and peddlers.
I imagine it depends on your neighborhood. If you live amongst unbathed hipsters you will travel with unbathed hipsters.
In the part of Vancouver I used to live in transit was a nightmare because it was always overcrowded, which meant standing in the rain as bus after bus drove by without even stopping because they were full -- and full of yucky people to boot.
Since moving to a less central location, still in the same city, my transit experience has been quite pleasant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Your sig bids farewell to SolipsismX. Where'd he go?
It's called a taxi.
How is my idea more distracting? Currently, people drive an check Facebook, texts, and more on their phones. So it's better to check your phone than have Siri read it to you while your eyes are on the road? Maybe you don't have kids or don't deal with teenagers or young adults, but that's the case.
Heck- in the states and cities phones are banned from being used while driving, people now just use them on their laps so they dont get caught instead of by their steering wheel, making it even worse!
Moreover, all the technology I mentioned already exists, just not in an attractive, cohesive, and easy to use format.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157914/plan-f-goodbyeee#post_2368151
Hm, depends on the series, really. The new 1- and 3-series models (except for the GT) do indeed have cheaper-looking plastic parts standard. And I agree that this was a crap idea. But it seems that this was the result of some market research. They made some other, previously paid, options standard to somehow compensate for that (e.g. the 1-series in Europe now has A/C, powered windows in the rear, eco/sport drive mode selection and a vastly improved automatic gear shift, 8 gears iso 6). I still think taking away from the premium feel is something they shouldn't have done.
I went for a 6-series model in 2012 (I had the original 635 csi back in 1985 and always wanted one again) and the interior is certainly top notch, same goes for the 5- and 7-series models we have in our company. But I agree, even the "lower" models should maintain some differentiation to the Japanese and worse rice burners.
I assume you mean the G-Class Mercedes (or Puch in the Austrian variant) SUV? That is a great off road car, but the inside is pretty bare bones and it is quite noisy inside. Considering it is in a similar price range (here at least) to a BMW X5 or a Porsche Cayenne, it would not be my first choice (unless I would drive off road most of the time, in which case it would be my first choice).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder6
I just hope that Apple allows third-parties, such as Alpine and Kenwood, to make receivers that support this. If you have to buy a new car to get it, that seriously limits both the appeal and the potential audience for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Basically- Apple needs to make head units.
I have wondered for years why Apple DOESN'T make a head unit? It just seems like such an easy market to penetrate and almost instantly dominate. Is there something I'm missing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennypacker
This is a case where Apple is behind the game. Microsoft Sync has been providing all these features for many years. On Fords, all these features exist now with their MyFordTouch. I would think Apple may have difficulty entering in the market as many of the auto makers are already heavily invested in their current technology and I would think they would be hesitant to change their platform given they have so many autos in the field with their current platform. Apple would have to have an IOS for cars that was off the charts for a automaker to consider switching midstream. I would not expect Apple to be able to crack the market anytime soon, I think it will be a long, slow slosh.
Oh sure, iOS devices are only supported by 95% of cars on the roads now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007
Oh sure, iOS devices are only supported by 95% of cars on the roads now.
What do you mean? No one I know has a car that supports iOS. Please explain.
The real test of self driving cars will come the first time one is involved in an accident where life was lost. It's not a technical issue, per se; but a social and legal issue. Who will bear liability? Is the owner of the car liable? Is the manufacturer? Is the creator of the software? These are very practical matters that are not easily addressed by a simple stroke of a pen in some legislation allowing them on the road.
Also, what happens the first time someone hacks one of these remotely and someone is hurt or worse? It's already feasible to hack existing vehicles to cause brakes to be disabled (by causing the ABS to detect a nonexistent lockup and bleeding off all the brake pressure); but it generally requires a dongle to be installed on the OBDII port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittsend
Are you SERIOUS? Microsoft Sync is the worst abomination I've ever seen for car technology of ANY kind. I've rented 3 Fords in the last year and it never ceases to amaze me that NOTHING can be done with Microsoft Sync that doesn't require going down thru 2, 3, 4 or more levels of menus, using cryptic buttons on the control panel. The "features" may be there, but good luck getting to them. This is Windows 8 in a car, but much worse. Technology designed by committee, as only Microsoft can do it.
Oh no kidding. It's pathetic. Worse than texting & driving. No way you can locate anything you haven't done 1,000x before without pulling over on to the shoulder.
Siri will blow Microsoft Sync away - it's made for the car.
The auto industry is not shy about switching horses in mid-stream. An earlier poster seemed to think Apple (or anyone new) would not be able to "crack" the market, due to embedded vendors and old decisions. Neither of those are significant barriers to entry.
If you had a rear-view mirror that could reflect the scene behind the car for 10¢ less than their current mirror, all auto manufacturers would switch to save that dime. There's little that's sacred in the car business... except of course that Japanese auto builders make their engines exclusively in Japan, and probably always will, regardless of costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s
[...] Japanese auto builders make their engines exclusively in Japan, and probably always will, regardless of costs.
Toyota builds engines in Kentucky. Honda makes them in their Alabama facility and starting this year some will be made in Ohio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW
Wrong. You're as arrogant as MS if you think that its established market is safe from being breached by Apple.
Microsoft may not be the best example there. The only market they ever truly dominated was the desktop, where they continue to enjoy more than 85%.
"One of these things is not like the other...."
Quote:
From the article: "...there has been increasing interest by government safety officials to reduce the dangers of distracted driving."
Quote:
From the article: "...get your iMessages right on the screen of your car,"
And in Utah, for example, reading and sending messages can get you a $1500 fine and other penalties... ...so this seems a bit of a sticky wicket....
Also from the article, the screen shot of the John Appleseed call looks like a combo of facebook Home and Win 8's "Modern" UI.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittsend
Are you SERIOUS? Microsoft Sync is the worst abomination I've ever seen for car technology of ANY kind. I've rented 3 Fords in the last year and it never ceases to amaze me that NOTHING can be done with Microsoft Sync that doesn't require going down thru 2, 3, 4 or more levels of menus, using cryptic buttons on the control panel. The "features" may be there, but good luck getting to them. This is Windows 8 in a car, but much worse. Technology designed by committee, as only Microsoft can do it.
FTR, if it's based on Win Mobile CE, more 6.5 than 8....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I think that's more to do with slow to improve battery technology than any kind of conspiracy.
Even in a modern electric car the battery is still huge. See the battery being inserted in to this Chevy Volt at the 0:55 mark:
Also the charging infrastructure. If you live on the third (or 23rd) floor of an apartment building and/or don't have a ton of time to sit at a charging system (which 99% or more likely is nowhere near you as you read this - and would need mucho space for mucho cars) what are you going to do with an electric (non-hybrid) vehicle???
I am someone who would do that. I want my car to integrate with the info on my phone. I believe that iOS is more stable and robust than Windows 8 Phone and Android. If a car manufacturer does not offer smartphone integration then their cars drop off my list. if they do offer integration but not iOS then I would be suspect of the competence of that car manufacturer and this would cause me to think hard about not purchasing a car from them.
You're in the minority.