Microsoft Surface revenue at $853M, less than write-down and associated ad-spend

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  • Reply 81 of 120
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    The Surface Pro actually is an iPad killer. Its priced too high though for people to be interested. My Surface Pro destroyed my iPad 4 in every area to the point where i stopped using it and sold it. More memory plus 64gb xt card. I can play gsmes like tf2 hl2 cod2 and plenty of other games at nice detail and 60fps for the ones i just mentioned. Nice keyboard. Photoshop and 3ds max. Office. Real applications. Its quiet. Windows full OS. Only heavy for weeny arms. Beautiful screen. Fast ssd and cpu up to 2.7 ghz. Replaced my laptop as well. Usb 3.0. Looks sexy and makes people at work jealous. Way more productivity than my iPad. There is nothing it cant do that my laptop could do. I use it every day at home and work. Windows phone wont replace my iphone and ms fucked up on xbox one hardware but anyone who says a surface pro aint the shit just doesnt know and are free to continue using their toy of an iPad at their leisure.

    Not an iPad killer because most people don't want to do anything you just said on their tablet.

    And Id rather use a MacBook Air for everything you just said.
  • Reply 82 of 120
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Epsico View Post


    No, that's how you interpreted my sarcasm.  Another way you could have interpreted it was as me stating it's disingenuous to claim that Microsoft copied Apple when the research was actually conducted at Xerox, meaning Apple is not the victim you want to present it as.



     


    I think you need to fix you timeline of event here.


     


    SJ and the Apple teams visited Xerox in 1979, a year after some of the Parc researcher like Jef Raskin (the Macintosh father) joined Apple.


     


    Apple showed the Macintosh prototype to some selected software partner and even gives one early Macintosh prototype to Microsoft in 1983 to help them to get Word and other software ready for the Macintosh launch in 1984.  A year after, Microsoft announced Windows 1.0 for PC, and for 10 years until Windows 95 (with help of Quickdraw and Quicktime for windows source code they stole from an Apple consultant they used for porting those software to Windows) Microsoft was unable to match Quickdraw performance and functionality. 


     


    Microsoft has stole Quickdraw and Quicktime from Apple, this was the core of the dispute that conduct to the infamous 150 milions $ settlement between Microsft and Apple in 1997. 

  • Reply 83 of 120
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spacemanjupiter View Post



    The Surface Pro actually is an iPad killer. Its priced too high though for people to be interested. My Surface Pro destroyed my iPad 4 in every area to the point where i stopped using it and sold it. More memory plus 64gb xt card. I can play gsmes like tf2 hl2 cod2 and plenty of other games at nice detail and 60fps for the ones i just mentioned. Nice keyboard. Photoshop and 3ds max. Office. Real applications. Its quiet. Windows full OS. Only heavy for weeny arms. Beautiful screen. Fast ssd and cpu up to 2.7 ghz. Replaced my laptop as well. Usb 3.0. Looks sexy and makes people at work jealous. Way more productivity than my iPad. There is nothing it cant do that my laptop could do. I use it every day at home and work. Windows phone wont replace my iphone and ms fucked up on xbox one hardware but anyone who says a surface pro aint the shit just doesnt know and are free to continue using their toy of an iPad at their leisure.


     


    I wont replace my 15in laptop for an 1000$  10inch netbook with worse performance.


     


    Surface Pro is not worst or better than every other past and failed TabletPC, the problem here is not really the hardware (beside using windows apps on a sub 12inch screen is always a pain in the b****). Windows softwares was never made and optimized for being use on a small tactile screen, therefor the Surface Pro has no advantages over the classic laptop to compensate for the tablet form factor compromises. 


     


    The iPad success has a lots to give to new and completely refreshed Apps, where every Apps make mandatory uses of the touchscreen, the Surface Pro without the optional keyboard is pretty useless, the touchscreen is unusable for the classic windows UI who depend to much of right-clicking and small toolbars 


     


    I would say the same thing if Apple would come out with an OSX compatible tablet. 

  • Reply 84 of 120
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    [quote name="Epsico" url="/t/158791/microsoft-surface-revenue-at-853m-less-than-write-down-and-associated-ad-spend/40#post_2371453"]I did not say anything "anti-Apple", at most I said something pro-Xerox. [/QUOTE]

    Whatever you want to pretend it was, it was a lie.

    [QUOTE]The facts that made me post originally remain untouched, though: many of the concepts used on modern computers, ranging from the mouse to network protocols are commonly rooted in Xerox.[/QUOTE]

    Then why didn't you post that instead of your lie?

    [QUOTE]Perhaps[/QUOTE]

    Or you could take five seconds and look it up instead of pulling this crap.
  • Reply 85 of 120
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    the (third generation) Zune wasn't "that bad" either.


     


    it was just the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong (way too late) time.



     


    that and way too "cola candy" colored for my taste. yeah, the aesthetics also matter to me, I guess.

  • Reply 86 of 120
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spacemanjupiter View Post



    The Surface Pro actually is an iPad killer. Its priced too high though for people to be interested. My Surface Pro destroyed my iPad 4 in every area to the point where i stopped using it and sold it. More memory plus 64gb xt card. I can play gsmes like tf2 hl2 cod2 and plenty of other games at nice detail and 60fps for the ones i just mentioned. Nice keyboard. Photoshop and 3ds max. Office. Real applications. Its quiet. Windows full OS. Only heavy for weeny arms. Beautiful screen. Fast ssd and cpu up to 2.7 ghz. Replaced my laptop as well. Usb 3.0. Looks sexy and makes people at work jealous. Way more productivity than my iPad. There is nothing it cant do that my laptop could do. I use it every day at home and work. Windows phone wont replace my iphone and ms fucked up on xbox one hardware but anyone who says a surface pro aint the shit just doesnt know and are free to continue using their toy of an iPad at their leisure.


     


     


    wow… weeny arms? really?


     


    Those short, one and two-word descriptive sentences and choices of "what's important" also tell me that a) you spend way too much time worshipping at the altar of the "steve ballmer church of tech thinking" (you know, the same one that held a ritual "iPhone funeral" at the M$ campus) or, b) we now know which account on AI belongs to the Chief Monkey Boy himself…...

  • Reply 87 of 120
    wageesqwageesq Posts: 2member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeJones View Post


    It's a well-known distortion of history that Apple "stole" from Xerox PARC. They gave Xerox PARC options for 100,000 shares at a $10 pre-IPO price in exchange for being able to see their work and use the ideas. Maybe next time you should do a few minutes of research before spewing your anti-Apple screed? Since that's all it would have taken to disprove your claim.



     


    “Picasso had a saying - 'good artists copy, great artists steal' - and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.” - Steve Jobs


     


    The man was "great" because he was shameless about stealing great ideas?  This is your hero?  How do you people sleep at night?

  • Reply 88 of 120
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WageEsq View Post


     


    “Picasso had a saying - 'good artists copy, great artists steal' - and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.” - Steve Jobs


     


    The man was "great" because he was shameless about stealing great ideas?  This is your hero?  How do you people sleep at night?



     


    Do you know the context where and when this quote is coming from?


     


    Do Gates or Ballmer are better than SJ? One thing for sure, Jobs has shaken the world more than once, and we all still talk about him after his death.

  • Reply 89 of 120
    wageesqwageesq Posts: 2member


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WageEsq View Post


     


    “Picasso had a saying - 'good artists copy, great artists steal' - and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.” - Steve Jobs


     


    The man was "great" because he was shameless about stealing great ideas?  This is your hero?  How do you people sleep at night?



     

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post


    Do you know the context where and when this quote is coming from?


     


    Do Gates or Ballmer are better than SJ? One thing for sure, Jobs has shaken the world more than once, and we all still talk about him after his death.


    _______________________________________


     


     


    Do you think that Jonathan Ive figured out that context when Steve Jobs stole from him?  (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20124720-37/jonathan-ive-steve-jobs-stole-my-ideas/)  Steve Jobs certainly was "shameless"....but at least he was an honest person about his character.


     


    No....I don't think that Gates or Ballmer are any better.  They are all shameless.  I just don't like the implication that Apple should be placed on the pedestal of integrity.

  • Reply 90 of 120
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,883member
    wageesq wrote: »
    “Picasso had a saying - 'good artists copy, great artists steal' - and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.” - Steve Jobs

    The man was "great" because he was shameless about stealing great ideas?  This is your hero?  How do you people sleep at night?

    Ideas are one thing, stealing implementation is another.
  • Reply 91 of 120
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WageEsq View Post




    Do you think that Jonathan Ive figured out that context when Steve Jobs stole from him?  (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20124720-37/jonathan-ive-steve-jobs-stole-my-ideas/)  Steve Jobs certainly was "shameless"....but at least he was an honest person about his character.


     


    No....I don't think that Gates or Ballmer are any better.  They are all shameless.  I just don't like the implication that Apple should be placed on the pedestal of integrity.




     


    Steve Job was a beloved person because he was never afraid to get his envision done.  He wasn't a one hit wonder like most in this industry.


     


    You got a very twisted and conspirational mind. No body has ever said SJ was perfect, no one are.  I'm pretty curious what personalities you could admirer with those kinds of reflections. You're shameless to criticize other base on quote and off context stuff, trash talk is easy, recognize good is much harder, I think you need more humility. 

  • Reply 92 of 120
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post


     


    Steve Job was a beloved person because he was never afraid to get his envision done.  He wasn't a one hit wonder like most in this industry.


     


    You got a very twisted and conspirational mind. No body has ever said SJ was perfect, no one are.  I'm pretty curious what personalities you could admirer with those kinds of reflections. You're shameless to criticize other base on quote and off context stuff, trash talk is easy, recognize good is much harder, I think you need more humility. 



    I know a lot of people don't say much about this, BUT.  Ben Rosen was the Chairman of the Board with one of the top two PC companies called Compaq.  I think at one point they were the top PC brand, at least in quality they were right up there.  They designed their own motherboards, got the source code from Microsoft for the BIOS, whereas everyone other than IBM and Compaq used to have to get some third party BIOS which was highly suspicious of not being 100% compatible, etc. etc.  Ben Rosen admitted he switched to a Mac shortly after he sold Compaq to HP.  He even told Steve Jobs to not sell their OS as an OEM product and to continue designing that hardware and OS together.    I wonder if this guy is in the movie.  But I will tell you, for someone like Ben Rosen to switch to a Mac tells me that he's not pleased with Microsoft and this guy was in bed with Microsoft, supporting nothing but Microsoft and based the entire business supporting Microsoft, and for him to switch to Apple?   That's a major thing to certain people.  I used to love company products back when they came out.   I've sold a TON of their products over the years, but when Dell started to gain traction in the Industry, Compaq started slipping and then HP started to gain ground.  It's a shame really.  I wish Compaq was still around, and Dell and these other slimly little PC companies weren't around screwing up the industry.  Nothing worse for a platform when you have too much competition and everyone has to slash profit margins, product quality slips as does quality of support.  

  • Reply 93 of 120
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


    I know a lot of people don't say much about this, BUT.  Ben Rosen was the Chairman of the Board with one of the top two PC companies called Compaq.  I think at one point they were the top PC brand, at least in quality they were right up there.  They designed their own motherboards, got the source code from Microsoft for the BIOS, whereas everyone other than IBM and Compaq used to have to get some third party BIOS which was highly suspicious of not being 100% compatible, etc. etc.  Ben Rosen admitted he switched to a Mac shortly after he sold Compaq to HP.  He even told Steve Jobs to not sell their OS as an OEM product and to continue designing that hardware and OS together.    I wonder if this guy is in the movie.  But I will tell you, for someone like Ben Rosen to switch to a Mac tells me that he's not pleased with Microsoft and this guy was in bed with Microsoft, supporting nothing but Microsoft and based the entire business supporting Microsoft, and for him to switch to Apple?   That's a major thing to certain people.  I used to love company products back when they came out.   I've sold a TON of their products over the years, but when Dell started to gain traction in the Industry, Compaq started slipping and then HP started to gain ground.  It's a shame really.  I wish Compaq was still around, and Dell and these other slimly little PC companies weren't around screwing up the industry.  Nothing worse for a platform when you have too much competition and everyone has to slash profit margins, product quality slips as does quality of support.  



     


    I'm nostalgic of the 80's where most computer company back then was in control of the hardware and software, system like Apple II, AtariST, Amiga Workbench, X68000, TRS-80.  They all has their charms and no one was cloning their neighbour.  Microsoft as killed hardware innovation forcing every PC mfg to play with the sames rules.  Big brand like IBM and compaq quickly lost their market to nameless clones and generic hardware shops.   

  • Reply 94 of 120
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post


     


    I'm nostalgic of the 80's where most computer company back then was in control of the hardware and software, system like Apple II, AtariST, Amiga Workbench, X68000, TRS-80.  They all has their charms and no one was cloning their neighbour.  Microsoft as killed hardware innovation forcing every PC mfg to play with the sames rules.  Big brand like IBM and compaq quickly lost their market to nameless clones and generic hardware shops.   



    It was mostly DELL, Gateway to a certain extent, but mostly DELL.  They were the ones that actually did it since what they were doing is "BUYING" market share by basically low balling bids to win accounts and they started the trend of outsourcing a lot of assembly work and they didn't spend hardly any money in R&D because all they really did was use someone else's guts and slap a label on the outside.  They were horrible at support, it was just a box pusher and people got suckered into them.  Trust me, I lost a lot of deals to these losers as they went direct to bypass the corporate reseller.  HP had to also play the game and their quality has gone down to match Dell's, so they could compete.  The other brands/clones weren't the major affect on IBM/Compaq from my perspective, it was mostly DELL, Toshiba to some extent with laptops.


     


    But I've seen Dell get kicked out of accounts for some various bad business practices which my customers would tell me about that IBM, Compaq, HP, Apple would NEVER do with a major account that buys millions of dollars worth of computers and servers.  They basically drove down profits to barebones and a lot of resellers got out because of it.   I know of one order to a particular LARGE customer of Dells that shipped back a ton of product because it wasn't configured properly.  They did that to one of my customers as well and they had to send back 300 computers that had the wrong size hard drive.   F--- Dell.  They are the four letter word of the Computer industry that also just so happens rhymes with HELL.


     


    I crack up that Apple, this little company managed to actually succeed IBM, whom used to be the company EVERYONE followed.  Back in the 80's, people waited with baited breath to find out what IBM was doing.  It was funny. But IBM did make some horrendous mistakes with Token Ring and Micro Channel.  For a while IBM got licensing to make their own Intel processors which saved them money since IBM has a lot of semiconductor foundries set up.


     


    Compaq came out with their luggable and then they came out and grew faster than anyone and started to make some really nicely made and designed product that was built to last. HP used to do that too, but most of the HP products aren't that good anymore because they are forced to drop their quality standards to they can match others on price.  It's sucks, but that's the PC market.


     


    For the longest time I didn't even consider DELL a REAL mfg.  in their beginning, i think they would just buy Intel Motherboards, slap together a box with the DELL logo on it and that's really all they did. HP, Compaq, IBM used to design their own motherboards, controller cards, and other aspects of the computer instead of just stuffing in standard stuff that was pretty much generic.   Compaq didn't use standard memory for the longest time because they designed even their own memory cards to improve performance.  They would also design their own hard drive controller cards and even video cards.  But they had to go the same route as everyone else, and the quality went downhill on their desktops.  Their laptops were too expensive because did a lot of engineering with their docking stations to turn a laptop into a desktop.  Paying $1000 for a docking station was just too expensive for the average person as Toshiba sold a $250 docking station.


     


    It was interesting times back in the 80's and 90's.  But now, there really isn't much real interesting products coming out of the PC industry.  I used to have excitement about a new product announcement regardless of which company it was.  But now it's totally different for me.  I do still have excitement over what Apple announces, but anyone else? I could give a rip.  HP doesn't do exciting product announcements, neither does Dell, nor anyone else for that matter. The Android platform only seems to have something that might seem interesting, but since they don't have any decent apps/hardware available, I have no real interest.  Apple still holds my interest.

  • Reply 95 of 120
    macartmacart Posts: 78member
    qamf wrote: »

    iOS7 does indeed look bit more like W8P.  Deal with it.

    Comparing iOS7 to Windblows8 is like saying a Ferrari and a skateboard are the same because they both have wheels!

    Sorry my negative Surface & Windblows comments upset you.

    I can understand how you were probably confused by the vast amount of Google & Android article's but this is actually supposed to be an Apple Forum!
  • Reply 96 of 120
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macart View Post





    Comparing iOS7 to Windblows8 is like saying a Ferrari and a skateboard are the same because they both have wheels!



    Sorry my negative Surface & Windblows comments upset you.



    I can understand how you were probably confused by the vast amount of Google & Android article's but this is actually supposed to be an Apple Forum!


    1. Windoze 8 and W8P are two different products.

    2. iOS7 looks more like W8P then iOS6 (or any previous) did. In ways that stand out from iOS6 and before.

    3. Windoze 8 sucks, I have tried to use it, and well, tried is the operative word.  W8P does not.



    I don't think surface offered anything special (Besides the kickstand, which is an interesting idea) and if you cannot tell, I am not a huge fan of Windoze.



    What upsets me is when people compare products they have never tried for an extended period of time.



    I have used iOS for a few years, Android for ~4 months, and W8P for ~2.



    I hate using android (only got because the nook HD+ is good for watching videos, and was on sale) iOS is nice and polished, W8P feels the best, and I don't use many apps, so not a problem for me.  if you use tons of apps stay away from w8p for quite a while!



    -Q

  • Reply 97 of 120
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by QAMF View Post


    1. Windoze 8 and W8P are two different products.

    2. iOS7 looks more like W8P then iOS6 (or any previous) did.

    3. Windoze 8 sucks, I have tried to use it, and well, tried is the operative word.  W8P does not.



    I don't think surface offered anything special (Besides the kickstand, which is an interesting idea) and if you cannot tell, I am not a huge fan of Windoze.



    What upsets me is when people compare products they have never tried for an extended period of time.



    I have used iOS for a few years, Android for ~4 months, and W8P for ~2.



    I hate using android (only got because the nook HD+ is good for watching videos, and was on sale) iOS is nice and polished, W8P feels the best, and I don't use many apps, so not a problem for me.  if you use tons of apps stay away from w8p for quite a while!



    -Q


     



     


     


    Windows RT


    Windows 8


    Windows 8 Pro


    WIndows 8 Student




    Is what Microsoft's web site indicates.


     


    I would suggest that Windows RT is like iOS and that Windows 8 Pro is more like OS X.  and the other versions are just something Microsoft likes to do to confuse people. Which is the Microsoft way.


     


    It's almost getting to the point where I don't even want to KNOW this information because i don't use WIndows, I don't like Windows and I will probably never actually buy WIndows products so why fill my brain with that information when there is other things to know about. The same goes with Android.  I wish I didn't even have to know ANYTHING about Android.  I know NOTHING about Symbian other than it exists and that's how I'd like to keep all information regarding other platforms since I highly doubt I'll ever use.  It's kind of like knowing what the Hyndai product is all about when you'll never own one. Why bother, it's a waste of time.. Some times, it's actually better NOT to know something.  Being an expert in Windows doesn't impress me.  It just tells me that you can't help me since I don't use Windows anymore.


     




    W8P?  Huh?  What is W8P?  

  • Reply 98 of 120
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post


     


    Do you know the context where and when this quote is coming from?


     


    Do Gates or Ballmer are better than SJ? One thing for sure, Jobs has shaken the world more than once, and we all still talk about him after his death.



    Personally, I don't know if one can technically STEAL another person's idea.  They can certainly use an idea, but I don't know if one can technically steal an idea. An idea is more of a thought than a physical product.


     


    One can take a design that someone has and use the same design, but I don't know if that's stealing.  Now, some people can violate a patent, but there are plenty of ways to make small changes to what the patent outlines where it's not in violation of a patent and that's not stealing, it's just changing a design or an application of something that has been granted a patent.  


     


    One can only steal a physical thing.  Just to be a literal, not figurative.

  • Reply 99 of 120
    qamfqamf Posts: 87member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


     


     


    Windows RT


    Windows 8


    Windows 8 Pro


    WIndows 8 Student




    Is what Microsoft's web site indicates.


     


    I would suggest that Windows RT is like iOS and that Windows 8 Pro is more like OS X.  and the other versions are just something Microsoft likes to do to confuse people. Which is the Microsoft way.


     


    It's almost getting to the point where I don't even want to KNOW this information because i don't use WIndows, I don't like Windows and I will probably never actually buy WIndows products so why fill my brain with that information when there is other things to know about. The same goes with Android.  I wish I didn't even have to know ANYTHING about Android.  I know NOTHING about Symbian other than it exists and that's how I'd like to keep all information regarding other platforms since I highly doubt I'll ever use.  It's kind of like knowing what the Hyndai product is all about when you'll never own one. Why bother, it's a waste of time.. Some times, it's actually better NOT to know something.  Being an expert in Windows doesn't impress me.  It just tells me that you can't help me since I don't use Windows anymore.


     




    W8P?  Huh?  What is W8P?  



    Windoze 8 RT just is Windoze 8 that runs on ARM.  Windoze 8 is desktop;



    W8P = Windows 8 Phone.  That is what is comparable to iOS, although iOS is more polished and has more apps.  Microsoft should have just called it "Windows Phone +" or something.  First time I have used a Microsoft product that I would (and did) take over an Apple one, maybe I'll switch back once iOS7 comes out.  Probably not, mostly because I don't have the money to get a newer phone, and I don't want to keep using iPhone 4, it is starting to feel a bit slow.



    -QAMF

  • Reply 100 of 120
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spacemanjupiter View Post



    The Surface Pro actually is an iPad killer. Its priced too high though for people to be interested. My Surface Pro destroyed my iPad 4 in every area to the point where i stopped using it and sold it. More memory plus 64gb xt card. I can play gsmes like tf2 hl2 cod2 and plenty of other games at nice detail and 60fps for the ones i just mentioned. Nice keyboard. Photoshop and 3ds max. Office. Real applications. Its quiet. Windows full OS. Only heavy for weeny arms. Beautiful screen. Fast ssd and cpu up to 2.7 ghz. Replaced my laptop as well. Usb 3.0. Looks sexy and makes people at work jealous. Way more productivity than my iPad. There is nothing it cant do that my laptop could do. I use it every day at home and work. Windows phone wont replace my iphone and ms fucked up on xbox one hardware but anyone who says a surface pro aint the shit just doesnt know and are free to continue using their toy of an iPad at their leisure.


    I don't equate the Surface Pro to the iPad.  The Surface Pro is more like what they had if you bought a Windows tablet. It was a full blown copy of WIndows with a touch interface.  It's similar if Apple came out with a tablet that had a full blown version of OS X on it.  


     


    Microsoft seems to think that people would rather have a full blown OS on a tablet with a physical keyboard to use much like a laptop, but with a touchscreen GUI.


     


    I think Microsoft is confused as to what a tablet should be in order to be successful.  While some iPad users might buy a physical keyboard to use, the majority of iPad owners don't use a physical keyboard with it, since it wasn't really designed to take the place of a laptop/desktop computer, although some people seem to think you can.  It's kind of like using a bike to carry passengers.  Yeah, I've seen kids carry another kid on a bicycle, but it's not really designed to do that very well, unless it's a tandem bicycle.   I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if Apple actually had a full blown tablet that ran OS X w/ a touch screen and then if you connected a mouse/trackpad a cursor emerged and that you could connect a physical keyboard.  I wonder if people would actually like it, prefer it, or what apps they would like using with that type of design.  I wonder if iOS would be great to use if it employed the menu bar on top, just like OS X and it would disappear when not using it.  I wonder if iOS might eventually have that.

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