Caught by iPad cannibalization, Apple, Inc. gambles on Mac inventory safeguards

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    I'm doing something similar. Have decided that an iPad Mini + iPhone 5 + 13" MBA is the perfect toolkit. Those three devices together will satisfy 100% of my mobile and biz needs. I can shoot and edit photos & video, manage listings, edit/print all the standard forms, etc. (MLS and ZipForms on an iPad Mini? Really?) And you can do all that pretty much anywhere. Clients love it when you can pull up extra info while showing (even alternate properties) on the fly.  I considered the 11" MBA for about 30 seconds. I don't care for the 16:9 display format at that size, and the extra screen real estate on the 13" just makes everything so much more usable and comfortable for extended sessions...

    We're using iCloud and Dropbox a lot for managing file sharing. Looking forward to using Airdrop across all devices too.

    The tools of the future here today! :D

    Don't do the MBA- spend the extra $300 or whatever it will cost and get the rMBP or even the standard pro. The MBA is a wonderful device, but for photo editing- the screen is very bad. The resolution is phenomenal, but the color changes with even the slightest angle change. It's widely known. The air is amazing for everything except photo editing.
  • Reply 62 of 105
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    It's only one subjective data point, but what I've seen over the last five years is:

    - basically *zero* MacPros being bought at all anymore
    - big decline in iMacs.
    - huge, huge decline in MacBook Pro's
    - zero Mac mini's (down from close to zero to begin with though).

    It's almost all MacBook Air's now. Not too long ago it was all MacBook Pros, in various sizes (with some iMacs in various sizes because they were cheaper for the lower status workers), now it's almost all standard, 11" MacBook Airs.  The only real growth has been in Apple displays which basically work as docking ports for the MacBook Airs.  Part of the iMac decline is almost certainly because they last so damn long now though.  Once you buy one for an office environment you don't need to upgrade or do anything to it for four years or so. 

    Almost everyone who previously went for a MacBook Pro now goes for an Air, and about half of those that used to get an iMac do as well. 

    After the 13" rMBP gets announced- even if JUST Haswell and intel 5000/5100 are included- I don't know why anyone would pick the air for a measly $400 (128gb) difference or $200 (256gb). And that's if they don't drop the price. That 13" rMBP is gonna be amazing.
  • Reply 63 of 105
    Serious question: what's so great about the Haswell, compared to, say, i7?

    Basically is way more energy efficient. That's why the new Airs have all day battery now. Also for the rMBP, it's expected to get better integrated graphics.
  • Reply 64 of 105
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    It's only one subjective data point, but what I've seen over the last five years is:


     


    - basically *zero* MacPros being bought at all anymore


    - big decline in iMacs.


    - huge, huge decline in MacBook Pro's


    - zero Mac mini's (down from close to zero to begin with though).


     


    It's almost all MacBook Air's now. Not too long ago it was all MacBook Pros, in various sizes (with some iMacs in various sizes because they were cheaper for the lower status workers), now it's almost all standard, 11" MacBook Airs.  The only real growth has been in Apple displays which basically work as docking ports for the MacBook Airs.  Part of the iMac decline is almost certainly because they last so damn long now though.  Once you buy one for an office environment you don't need to upgrade or do anything to it for four years or so. 


     


    Almost everyone who previously went for a MacBook Pro now goes for an Air, and about half of those that used to get an iMac do as well. 



    From your post it feels like they don't sell shit anymore. Maybe there is no need to blow things out of proportions?

  • Reply 65 of 105
    andy-ukandy-uk Posts: 26member


    I completely agree, I have a 2011 Macbook Pro and, although I'd love a retina display, I still use the Firewire port, the IR receiver and I like the dedicated graphics for video editing so I don't currently have an upgrade path. Apple had a great opportunity to gain market share while Windows users dithered over WIndows 8 but instead of tempting them with an aggressively priced, highly functional  alternative they reduced the functionality and raised the price. Bad call.

  • Reply 66 of 105
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    I wonder what would happen if Apple decided to offer their hardware for about $100 to $200 cheaper per desktop and laptop and sold OS X as an optional Operating system to be used only on Apple hardware. Would people buy them and install another OS, or would they still install OS X.

    I know they won't do it, but I've always wondered what would happen if they did. I would still buy OS X and run OS X as would everyone that prefers OS X, but would they sell more systems if LInux and Windows people still wanted to only run those OSs and choose Apple hardware at a slightly reduced amount because the OS was unbundled. Obviously, Apple wouldn't be the OS supplier or give suppert for the other OS's but still offer hardware support.
  • Reply 67 of 105
    poksipoksi Posts: 482member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by karmadave View Post



    I think what this demonstrates is that Apple is not immune to the new realities of the personal computer market. The market is forecast to contract at least another 10% and they simply don't want to want to get stuck with unsold inventory. Intel's release of Haswell has been staggered with full availability not expected until the Fall. This is the primary reason Apple's updated MBP's will not see the light of day until at least September. Apple, of course, is in a fairly strong strategic position (compared to HP, Dell, and others) due to their marketshare and profits in Smartphones and Tablets. Of course, Apple's challenge is not only updating Mac, but also their iOS devices which are under siege from the likes of Google and Samsung. All this, just to stay in the game. To continue on their path they also need to bring new, innovative products to market (TV's? Watches?). These are some of the challenges faced by Apple's management in the 'post-SJ' era...


     


    If Apple wants to split its Mac fortunes with the ones of PC makers, they should leave the Intel in at least notebook and desktop segment and go further with ARM.

  • Reply 68 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by v5v View Post


     


    Just yesterday we were talking about Apple immediately selling everything they make as fast as they can make it. I guess we were wrong.


     


    The context was a co-worker and me wanting Apple to make some design changes, but feeling that it was unlikely it will ever happen because you can't argue with success. Now I wonder...


     


    Is it possible that declining sales of certain products are NOT the result of cannibalization by the iPad, but rather buyers just not being happy with the current offerings? I know that's the case for me -- I haven't updated my aged MacBook Pro or iPhone because I don't care for the current offerings -- but I always I assumed I was the only one. Is anyone else thumbing their nose at what Apple sells now and waiting to see if the next redesign is better?



    Apple isn't really innovating these days. They bought Siri. They got Thunderbold from Intel. They buy software companies to integrate their products into Apple products. I guess they innovated with the quieter laptop fans and the sapphire phone screens.


     


    It seems the Macs are becoming entertainment devices with the app stores and games. I'm awaiting something new and different from Apple. I've given up on their computer products. I don't need a smart TV that can be hacked and I don't need a watch that does anything but tell time and have a timer with an alarm. I would love to get an iPod Touch but for about $200 less than the price charged for the 64 GB version. I could get an unlocked Galaxy S III phone with a 64 GB memory card for just $20 more than the iPod Touch.


     


    I'm doing more on a desktop these days. If I ever go mobile I'll probably use a big screen smart phone and not a laptop or tablet. I'm fortunate in that I don't need to be mobile for my computer usage. I can buy less expensive hardware and put GNU/Linux on it and do great work.

  • Reply 69 of 105
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    This has been discussed here before, but IMO the biggest hole in Apple's line-up is a family-friendly Home Entertainment server, with an iOS app to easily configure it and to add to it. A personal/family "headless" iCloud computer, possibly built on the current Mac Mini platform.

    Re: Desktop and Laptop PCs Dying a slow death.

    I think the above needs to be broken down to:
    [INDENT]a) students, professionals, enterprise users;
    b) home, consumer and casual users. [/INDENT]

    A - The fact that PCs are are far more powerful and last longer today than say even 5 years ago, there is simply no need to upgrade. Windows: many business can't and/or won't upgrade because it's simply not needed, and the Windows 8 catastrophe is keeping the others from running out to purchase anything new at this time.

    On the Apple side, just about anything from Mid 2009 until today is more than sufficient for most people's needs. Add some more RAM and possibly an SSD drive, and many are blown by those small and inexpensive improvements.

    This category of user is not going away... but they are being pragmatic with their investment money because their is no compelling reason to buy anything new at this time for the vast majority of them.

    B - This is where the desktop/laptop/PC business is seriously dying (dead already?).

    I was at a birthday party on Saturday of about 60 people, many of them clients and their families that I have the opportunity to mingle with outside of work once a year. A somewhat large portion have purchased their first smart phone or tablet since we last saw each other a year ago. The not surprising tale: they love their mobile devices; hate their PCs/LTs and rarely use them anymore unless they absolutely must. Many see absolutely no reason whatsoever to purchase a new PC.... some going so far as to say, "in their lifetime".

    Pretty amazing watching them all enjoying videos, pictures, web sites, etc. and not being afraid of the device in their hands. That was always the main thing I had to" teach" Wintel to Apple converters: stop being afraid of your computer. The PC was always a fear-filled experience for the average person for a multitude of reasons, but was a necessity many felt they had to live with to be "connected".

    With the advent of these instant on, easy to use computers in your pocket... and in the case of iOS devices, 99% secure... it really is no wonder why people are gravitating towards them in droves.

    I don't think it's too far fetched to predict that a very large majority of households will not replace their PCs at all in the future, and will rather upgrade their mobile devices every 2-3 years. I'm talking as high as ~75%. The "wiggle room" is for those that "really" need the power for film and picture editing and assorted business tasks that can't be accomplished efficiently on a mobile device. However, that dilemma is also changing quickly, so who knows? In 3 years we just may have docks, home servers, whatever that facilitates "big screen" computing. Heck, we're more than halfway there already if you think about it.

    NOTE: a lot of people inquiring about the Chromecast(!) For those outside of the Apple gadget arena... gotta be honest... that inexpensive little device is revolutionary for many home and technophobic users!
  • Reply 70 of 105

    Quote:


    I have an aging original intel iMac which I am using less and less because it has SL and iCloud is problematic. A little iWeb updating is about all I do on it. I'm in the process of switching to a web based free site offered by my hosting service. As much as I love iWeb, it's starting to look a little dated. 



     


     


    You should look into Adobe Muse, I've left iWeb behind a long time ago, and since starting learning how to use Muse since the launch of the Adobe Creative Cloud!

  • Reply 71 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Well, I for one, am doing my best to run my real estate business from my iPhone 4s and and an iPad Mini only.


    I have an aging original intel iMac which I am using less and less because it has SL and iCloud is problematic. A little iWeb updating is about all I do on it. I'm in the process of switching to a web based free site offered by my hosting service. As much as I love iWeb, it's starting to look a little dated. 

    I agree. iWeb is pretty outdated and suffers from one major problem. Once you start a project in iWeb, you can't easily modify it with any other program. It would be really nice if you could export it as html code.

    I also switched to a free web-based site. For my purposes, it's more than adequate, although that clearly won't work for everyone. After a bit of searching, the best one I found was:
    http://www.wix.com
  • Reply 72 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    This has been discussed here before, but IMO the biggest hole in Apple's line-up is a family-friendly Home Entertainment server, with an iOS app to easily configure it and to add to it. A personal/family "headless" iCloud computer, possibly built on the current Mac Mini platform.

    What's wrong with the Mini for that application? The Mini Server is a quite capable home entertainment server:
    http://www.apple.com/mac-mini/server/
  • Reply 73 of 105
    I think the future is a MacBook ThunderBolt display replacing desktops.
    Almost everyone wants a notebook computer while very few need a desktop.

    Apple should make more affordable ThunderBolt displays.
    $999 is too steep for most consumers.
    If they had a 21.5" ThunderBolt display for $500, lots of Mac Book owners would get it.
    They should also offer it as a discounted desktop replacement bundle.
  • Reply 74 of 105
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post


    The headline reads: "Caught by iPad cannibalization, Apple, Inc. gambles on Mac inventory safeguards"


     


    The thought that Apple doesn't know it's inventory depletion rate and manages it effectively as part of it's overall marketing plan is simply silly.


     


    "Caught & gambles"?  Who is writing this rubbish for Apple Insider?

     

    I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that. Apple simply overestimated demand for their desktops and laptops. That's why they had fire sales to move a lot of inventory. But I guess since they managed (it appears) to clear the excess inventory by slashing prices and killing their margins, then that's managing it "effectively."
  • Reply 75 of 105
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    It is a shame the 30" ACD was discontinued. I wonder with the new Mac Pro Apple might re introduced a real man sized screen? :smokey:

    Sure hope they do! I bought the 30" when it was EOL'D but would really like a 2nd one. The 27" are too glossy for my taste, but I need to be carefull here before, whatshisname, Zunc, starts to thumb this post up¡


    Getting a 4k display (or two) will also make me buy the new MP, even though I really don't need it.
  • Reply 76 of 105
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    jragosta wrote: »

    I suspect that the demand for a screen that size is tiny. Sure, for professionals, it's great, but for most people, even 27" is huge. In fact, I'm looking at the iMac and wondering if I should just stick with the 21" because the 27" is so freaking huge.

    But it's more productive. And mind-blowing. And usefull, with three documents open, side by side.

    http://www.tomsguide.com/us/30inch-LCD-monitors,review-1293.html

    http://pfeifferreport.com/Cin_Disp30_Bench_Rep.pdf

    A apple also wrote a great piece on the productivity of the 30". But alas, I can't find it.
  • Reply 77 of 105
    Apple isn't really innovating these days. They bought Siri. They got Thunderbold from Intel. They buy software companies to integrate their products into Apple products. I guess they innovated with the quieter laptop fans and the sapphire phone screens.

    It seems the Macs are becoming entertainment devices with the app stores and games. I'm awaiting something new and different from Apple. I've given up on their computer products. I don't need a smart TV that can be hacked and I don't need a watch that does anything but tell time and have a timer with an alarm. I would love to get an iPod Touch but for about $200 less than the price charged for the 64 GB version. I could get an unlocked Galaxy S III phone with a 64 GB memory card for just $20 more than the iPod Touch.

    I'm doing more on a desktop these days. If I ever go mobile I'll probably use a big screen smart phone and not a laptop or tablet. I'm fortunate in that I don't need to be mobile for my computer usage. I can buy less expensive hardware and put GNU/Linux on it and do great work.

    All large tech companies buy smaller ones for different reasons, this has nothing to do with being innovative or not. What other company has reinvented or defined while product categories like Apple? Horrible attempt at trolling. Come up with something new.
  • Reply 78 of 105
    drblank wrote: »
    I wonder what would happen if Apple decided to offer their hardware for about $100 to $200 cheaper per desktop and laptop and sold OS X as an optional Operating system to be used only on Apple hardware. Would people buy them and install another OS, or would they still install OS X.

    I know they won't do it, but I've always wondered what would happen if they did. I would still buy OS X and run OS X as would everyone that prefers OS X, but would they sell more systems if LInux and Windows people still wanted to only run those OSs and choose Apple hardware at a slightly reduced amount because the OS was unbundled. Obviously, Apple wouldn't be the OS supplier or give suppert for the other OS's but still offer hardware support.

    Apple sells a platform not generic hardware. It would cheapen the brand reducing them to just another hardware vendor. If you want Windows or Linux, you have plenty of choices. Just buy one of those MacBook Air copies from Asus or the like and you have your Windows or Linux machine.
  • Reply 79 of 105
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    But it's more productive. And mind-blowing. And usefull, with three documents open, side by side.



    http://www.tomsguide.com/us/30inch-LCD-monitors,review-1293.html



    http://pfeifferreport.com/Cin_Disp30_Bench_Rep.pdf



    A apple also wrote a great piece on the productivity of the 30". But alas, I can't find it.




    The problem I always encounter with the largest screens is one of managing that amount of space, both in mouse or tablet mapping and the issue of potentially overlapping windows. If I just need to glance at something for reference, it's easier to use a second display. rather than deal with overlap. I don't think you could everything to work well in the space provided by an ipad though. There are some things that just don't work well in its current form outside of those that are cpu/gpu bound. It makes interaction better for some things, worse for others. For example I could deal with way more typing a physical keyboard than an ipad. It works on an ipad, but I wouldn't want to go through hours of it. 

  • Reply 80 of 105
    At the Siggraph conference two weeks ago I had a number of conversations with companies on the show floor about the lack of significant performance increases at the top end of desktop PCs. The consensus is that all of the R&D efforts at Intel and other companies is now going into lower power and higher performance mobile products and that the desktop computer platform is going to disappear as a mass market product. Those of us that must use computers instead of mobile devices like iPads, such as developers or media content creators, will have to pay a lot more for our computers in coming years.

    Currently the cost of our high performance computers is subsidized by the mass market. We can pick up low priced computers from retail companies like Frys or web sites like NewEgg for between $1000 and $2000. With the disappearance of the mass market, we will can expect to return to the situation as it was in the early 1990s where we would spend many thousands of dollars for a new high end computer.

    This will effect Apple as well. Many people expect OS X to become more like iOS. It may instead get replaced by it for most customers. An iOS tablet with a keyboard and dock is nearly a computer already. It just needs a real file system and it would be able to do everything that a desktop computer can do now for most users. I expected to see that in iOS 7 but I guess it will be another year before we will see full computing capability in iOS.

    The challenge for Apple will be getting Xcode to run on iOS. I imagine a cloud based development system in which any 4K display can become your monitor. Just grab a keyboard and mouse, log in and start working on your projects. This will become the model for all other productivity apps on iOS. I think that Apple is holding off releasing the file system until it can work seamlessly with iCloud. When even developers don't need to buy Mac Books and iMacs to get their work done, that will mark the end of desktop computers for just about everyone.
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