Apple subsidiary FileMaker reportedly lays off 20 amid restructuring

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  • Reply 41 of 54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_steve View Post


     


      It doesn't sound like you are actually proficient with the product.   I don't think anything comes close to Filemaker for speed, flexibility, and ease of development, provided you understand the paradigm.  


     


    The problem is that when it's time to deploy, you need to pay around $300/seat for a full-blown development environment (Filemaker Pro), when what's really needed is a lightweight cheap client like Filemaker GO.



     


    FileMaker may be fast to develop in, but it's remote access performance is pathetic.  You are better off developing in PHP or Ruby on Rails.

  • Reply 42 of 54
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,402member
    s.metcalf wrote: »
    This is a bit worrying, not because Bento being killed off is a big loss (it's not!) but because it's essentially the same management behind FileMaker too and that software is too important to meet the same fate.

    FileMaker is good but it has more or less stagnated in the past 5 or 6 versions. If their idea of important development is adding new templates then that's a pretty poor indictment of their management and development teams.

    FileMaker needs a big update to improve usability, applicability and integrity of data. When I use it I'm constantly worried that I'll make inadvertent edits and not realise due to the lack of any form of change tracking and undo. From what I've read the Go application needs work too.

    What we need is a real FCP/Logic Pro X level of rethinking and not just more stagnation-ware updates that do little to enhance the product or address weaknesses.

    Apple should really step in and absorb the company and take it over because otherwise I can see FileMaker meeting the same fate.

    That was my exact comment earlier up the thread. Bring FileMaker back into Apple and let us have a Logic Pro X type incarnation for the pros. Also no reason that a more simple yet highly intuitive and integrated database could be part of iWorks for OS X and iOS, especially with the eco system Apple now have. Databases are so often beyond the mental comprehension of average users, many can't even understand groups in Contacts for example. Apple need to rethink a database for the average user, using artificial intelligence and perhaps even Siri operated.
  • Reply 43 of 54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post





    Huh? It sounds like you have no idea what else is out there... FM has one undeniable strength: you can deploy on Windows PCs and Macs (and, keeping some exceptions in mind, on iOS devices). That is why we still use it for a few things, but everybody hates it. But compared to even Access or Paradox, a simple task like getting data out of a RDBMS, running a subquery and a custom sortation on it and outputting the result in something like a drill-down or complex grouped master-detail report, a task we face almost daily, FM is dead last. The layout manager for forms is a nightmare, the reporting module is the poorest in existence and basic SQL support is close to zero. The Claris Works approach and GUI was good for the most basic tasks two to three decades ago. A major overhaul never happened.



    No idea why I would pay $300/seat to deploy anything. The runtimes created by the "pro advanced" version do work fine and the FM server does not require individual CALs.


    I'm sorry you opened your mouth and uttered the word Access. You fail automatically.


     


    Access is the most hated database system on earth and anyone claiming it is a good program let alone rating it over FileMaker Pro is as deluded as they come. Paradox? Paradox exists only as part of the WordPerfect suite. Who the hell even knows about WordPerfect let alone uses it anymore? I'm old enough to remember using it and it was a great product but Office took over and killed it.


     


    I'm sorry, as little as I know about FileMaker Pro I do know of numerous companies using FM databases. EVERYONE I know using Access databases are having nothing but problems when the new version of Access comes out leaving them to have ridiculous old machines to remain until they can reprogram the database to the latest version of Access because the stupid thing has ended up being a mission critical application.


     


    Access kills advancement, FM Pro retains backwards compatibility while moving forward. I hope FileMaker bring in a Pro version that's easy to use and cost effective for us Bento users while making the Advanced version more inline with the whole idea of Standard and Pro versions giving those that need it more features for more cost. Either that or just give us FileMaker Pro Advanced for a $100 US and give us everything to make great database applications.

  • Reply 44 of 54
    s.metcalfs.metcalf Posts: 912member
    That was my exact comment earlier up the thread. Bring FileMaker back into Apple and let us have a Logic Pro X type incarnation for the pros. Also no reason that a more simple yet highly intuitive and integrated database could be part of iWorks for OS X and iOS, especially with the eco system Apple now have. Databases are so often beyond the mental comprehension of average users, many can't even understand groups in Contacts for example. Apple need to rethink a database for the average user, using artificial intelligence and perhaps even Siri operated.

    Hehe, I didn't mean to hijack your opinion, it's just that great minds think alike!!! :)

    And yeah Access (shudders) is hell on Earth. Let's never speak of it again...
  • Reply 45 of 54
    poksipoksi Posts: 482member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    That was my exact comment earlier up the thread. Bring FileMaker back into Apple and let us have a Logic Pro X type incarnation for the pros. Also no reason that a more simple yet highly intuitive and integrated database could be part of iWorks for OS X and iOS, especially with the eco system Apple now have. Databases are so often beyond the mental comprehension of average users, many can't even understand groups in Contacts for example. Apple need to rethink a database for the average user, using artificial intelligence and perhaps even Siri operated.


     


    FIlemaker as it is cannot be part of iWorks. Database managers should not be part of such intuitive and highly efficient packages. I do expect some sort of Data manager in the future, that needs no programming to build smart data applications, but up to now, I haven't seen any.

  • Reply 46 of 54


    I love FM (12, server, etc) for what it can do. But I agree there are many tasks which go beyond it. It also overstates its ease of use for IWP; too many caveats. 


     


    There are projects which may see easy and quick to start with FM but later, as they become more demanding, you kinda wish you'd invested the time in a more flexible, programmer's approach to the project. At some point you've added so many extra tables and relationships and clever work arounds that the thing just becomes too complex and slow. Not that every project does that.


     


    FM exists because there is still a lot which can be done in a small office with staff who don't need to be full time programmers, but who are smart enough to write up formulas, rationalise data into tables, and basically build stuff that you pray they never try to do in Excel.

  • Reply 47 of 54


    This is a nice discussion of FMkr features, Thanks guys.

  • Reply 48 of 54


    Hey.. does anyone know for sure how many of the 20 (OMG!) lost positions were related to the Bento decision? If a company cancels a product, they likely will cancel a few positions related to that product as they refocus, no? Does anyone know how many hires that have taken place this year? The position count could be a net POSITIVE. I'm just saying I don't know, do you?



    Seems pre-mature to speculate the demise of a successful product line (FileMaker, knowledge worker ecosystem/data bridge to other systems) even if the sales have changed a bit, just because they pulled back on one product (Bento, consumer system). Every announcement seems well timed, no?


     


    I'll feel like I have a more complete perspective after the developer's conference announcements. Ok.

  • Reply 49 of 54


    drat

  • Reply 50 of 54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post


     


    FileMaker may be fast to develop in, but it's remote access performance is pathetic.  You are better off developing in PHP or Ruby on Rails.



    Good point. However, that remote performance has been improved in V12. And I can see it every time I use it via VPN.




    Importantly, remember that most knowledge workers don't have time to find Ruby people and the time to wait to develop in Ruby (even considering it's modern advancements appreciated by programmer nerds like you (&me)) 


     


    Knowledge workers need their data NOW, and many are like naked blind mole-rats willing to CHEW and CHEW and CHEW on the data until they get it.



    if that means using spreadsheets and manually entering data for their reports, they DO IT. If that means whipping up solutions in FileMaker they'll do it. FileMaker keeps the data close to them, with tools that are approachable. 




    I guarantee you, PHP, and more so, Ruby only registers on their furthest edge of their radars. 



    PS: Also, for some remote user sets, better performance could be delivered via PHP data fetches from FMServer, a nice focussed feature to which you may have been referring. To create and MAINTAIN an entire solution in PHP though, is not what Knowledge workers want to be doing. 

  • Reply 51 of 54
    devongdevong Posts: 1member
    I work for a company that has used FileMaker for almost twenty years, but we have no plans to upgrade it further. The introduction of FileMaker 12 and the replacement of the venerable .fp7 format has completely screwed the pooch.

    The problem for us is we have to share a number of our databases with outside vendors and our own subsidiaries. Each has their own budgets and own IT. We are running Version 11 on Mac OS X and Windows 7. Our largest vendor is running Version 8 on Windows XP. One of our customers is running Version 7 on Windows XP. Our Quebec subsidiary is running version 9 and 10 on Windows XP and Windows 7. But at the end of the day it is all .fp7

    These guys all have their own budgets and own IT departments, most of whom want nothing to do with FileMaker in the first place. They aren't going to invest a dime in FileMaker 12 just because we say so. Were we to upgrade to FileMaker 12 we would just end up where we were a decade ago, running multiple versions of FileMaker on the desktop and running multiple versions of FileMaker server in the back. Or we can do nothing and remain at an agreeable status quo. But that means FileMaker never gets another dime out of us.
  • Reply 52 of 54

    Maybe your database just sucked.

  • Reply 53 of 54

    Access cannot be used to front websites or enable access to hundreds of concurrent users. FileMaker does this with a blindfold on.

  • Reply 54 of 54

    Are you saying that Larry Ellison became rich by giving away Oracle?

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