FWIW I don't believe Mr; Jobs also said it would be a free standard. Perhaps Apple's offer had too many strings or costs attached to garner any interest from standards bodies. Perhaps Apple didn't follow thru in the first place and offer the IP. Perhaps someone whispered in Mr Jobs ear that Facetime was more valuable as Apple-only IP and forget what you said. Who knows. At the end of the day it didn't happen for whatever reason.
Good article on that link, but I had to stop myself from clawing out my eyes due to the sheer ugliness of the web site hosting it. What an assault on the senses!
Good article on that link, but I had to stop myself from clawing out my eyes due to the sheer ugliness of the web site hosting it. What an assault on the senses!
I used to have lots of iChat correspondents.
Today I hardly have a few.
Every time these people go through a new iOS/OSX/hardware upgrade, something changes, and a lot of iChat users are lost in the process.
Nothing changes; they change. iChat works as it always has. People just don't use IM anymore.
And don't get me started with Skype. I hate Skype.
You know what would really help Apple with it's Facetime push? Bringing back the f*cking iPhone dock that they discontinued for no f*cking reason at all.
Hey, you're right. I forgot about that. I'm not too jazzed about buying an iPhone I can't dock.
Good article on that link, but I had to stop myself from clawing out my eyes due to the sheer ugliness of the web site hosting it. What an assault on the senses!
Yeah it's pretty durn ugly.:\
At least it doesn't have things flashing in my face. Good thing we have Safari's Reader option. Man, I like that!
I love these ads. And they sure do piss off the haters and trolls so they must be effective.
After watching the ad the thought entered my mind that the competition doesn't even know they've been clobbered, much less how it happened. I was truly struck with how much Apple's competition doesn't get that this is about communication, not about chipsets, operating systems, megahertz, megabytes, and pixel depth.
Lastly, I don't think Apple should make FT platform-agnostic. For Apple's sake, it makes their own hardware valuable...
People always claim this, with zero evidence.
I could equally claim that getting people turned on to Apple software is an excellent way to hook them into its ecosystem, i.e., hardware (think iTunes).
You know what would really help Apple with it's Facetime push? Bringing back the f*cking iPhone dock that they discontinued for no f*cking reason at all.
Hey, you're right. I forgot about that. I'm not too jazzed about buying an iPhone I can't dock.
Why? There are a gazillion third-party docks/stands. Some of them even look nicer than Apple's prior version.
And don't get me started with Skype. I hate Skype.
Yeah I hate the way they let you have a phone number from anywhere in the world and forward incoming calls to your iPhone. And charging you pennies a minute for international calling is ridiculous. What were they thinking when they integrated txt, file sharing, video and voice into a single application. And really?..how strange that they release it for so many devices and platforms, what a waste.
Yeah I hate the way they let you have a phone number from anywhere in the world and forward incoming calls to your iPhone. And charging you pennies a minute for international calling is ridiculous. What were they thinking when they integrated txt, file sharing, video and voice into a single application. And really?..how strange that they release it for so many devices and platforms, what a waste.
More that Apple made a standard first and they ignored it entirely. Now they're compatible with absolutely nothing but themselves and Apple's relegated to obscurity AGAIN.
Why would I want a Skype account when I already have an iCloud (and previous) one? Why would I want their horrible software on my devices when I already have great software, fully integrated?
Yeah I hate the way they let you have a phone number from anywhere in the world and forward incoming calls to your iPhone. And charging you pennies a minute for international calling is ridiculous. What were they thinking when they integrated txt, file sharing, video and voice into a single application. And really?..how strange that they release it for so many devices and platforms, what a waste.
More that Apple made a standard first and they ignored it entirely. Now they're compatible with absolutely nothing but themselves and Apple's relegated to obscurity AGAIN.
Why would I want a Skype account when I already have an iCloud (and previous) one? Why would I want their horrible software on my devices when I already have great software, fully integrated?
That's probably why they fired Forstall. He was a Skype fan.
Sending files over bluetooth has always been a buggy mess that simply didn't work on 90% of the hardware that it was supposed to work on. As a result, almost no one uses bluetooth to send files of any kind. You are just one, unique, very persistent user that wants and uses the functionality that the rest of humanity walked away from years ago. Now that Wi-Fi is so ubiquitous, things are even less likely to change.
Strange, I don't recall ever having problems with Bluetooth on Symbian... And no, Wi-Fi is far from being close to the same thing; Bluetooth is ad-hoc P2P, Wi-Fi is not (by default). Furthermore, there are plenty of other useful profiles beyond OBEX that you conveniently ignored, such as HID (which I mentioned), BIP, BPP, DUN, PAN, FAX, A2DP, AVP, HSP, MAP, OPP, PBAP, and SAP just to name a few useful profiles. Bluetooth works great when properly implemented.
So, again, I am waiting for your justification for both this and the remainder of my original points.
For example: right now there's no easy way to send a picture from my phone to someone else's that doesn't involve E-mailing it. Even exchanging pictures between iDevices and Macs is unnecessarily complicated. If Apple is all about simplicity, and they don't hae vendor lock-in in mind, then why was I finding it easier to do these things back in 2006 on my Nokia N95 than in 2013 on my iPhone 4S and iPad 3?
The ad is nice, but I still feel that video chat is a very awkward thing.
your point is well taken. who really wants to see our faces (we all ain't pretty), and thus our emotions (that's the key)? so i'm sure Facetime is used almost entirely between family, close friends, and trusted colleagues. i think that covers every vignette in the ad.
but that is a huge part of our lives subjectively. so it's still a very big deal - something important to us. that's why it's the subject of major new ad #3.
probably the key reason FaceTime is popular is that it is preloaded in all Macs and iOS devices. so once you have your Apple ID and a Mail account and load up your address book it Just Works. no signing up, no settings, and no ads. (you can always load the Skyp app too if desired but it's more complicated).
Apple is never going to go cross platform with Facetime. it could never be as simple and Just Work on other systems. but of course the real reason is that Facetime encourages Apple hardware brand loyalty within entire families and groups of friends. end of story.
"Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."
Yeah, over Skype.
"Powerful" huh? None of these new ads are what I would describe as "powerful." Miss the old, playfully themed ads of Apple's days gone by.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this.
The previous ad campaign before this one was much more playful and did a good job of highlighting iOS exclusive apps
example:
However I feel like it was almost *too* frenetic going from app to app to app rapid fire, making it hard to sink a point in. Compare it to the original iPhone 3G ads highlighting a specific app, and showing how its use makes your life easier.
example:
I like the current ad campaign more as it shows people actually enjoying and using their phones in everyday life, much as we'd use them in real life (contrast with a bunch of dancers beat boxing around a tablet while break dancing on a table).
I could equally claim that getting people turned on to Apple software is an excellent way to hook them into its ecosystem, i.e., hardware (think iTunes).
iTunes is a pretty bad example, as it is available on Windows.
And zero evidence? I have mush anecdotal evidence of teens who encourage peers into Apple devices because of iMessage. I encouraged my wife to move from Blackberry to iPhone due largely to this and in turn I encouraged many of my in-laws to move to iPhone due to the ease of use and fun of iMessage and FaceTime.
That may not be evidence that is "generalizable", but it also isn;t Zero evidence.
Strange, I don't recall ever having problems with Bluetooth on Symbian... And no, Wi-Fi is far from being close to the same thing; Bluetooth is ad-hoc P2P, Wi-Fi is not (by default). Furthermore, there are plenty of other useful profiles beyond OBEX that you conveniently ignored, such as HID (which I mentioned), BIP, BPP, DUN, PAN, FAX, A2DP, AVP, HSP, MAP, OPP, PBAP, and SAP just to name a few useful profiles. Bluetooth works great when properly implemented.
So, again, I am waiting for your justification for both this and the remainder of my original points.
For example: right now there's no easy way to send a picture from my phone to someone else's that doesn't involve E-mailing it. Even exchanging pictures between iDevices and Macs is unnecessarily complicated. If Apple is all about simplicity, and they don't hae vendor lock-in in mind, then why was I finding it easier to do these things back in 2006 on my Nokia N95 than in 2013 on my iPhone 4S and iPad 3?
If you think the ONLY possible reason Apple isn't enabling or supporting these other protocols simply is vendor lock-in, you must have unprecedented access to Apple's corporate strategy and far greater insight to hardware and communications engineering than anyone on this site. Maybe the vast majority of their own customers are quite alright with the way things are. I certainly find that over the years very many capabilities I had hoped for have eventually made their way into my Apple products.
Also, there are very many examples of things Apple could do that they have not done yet that would greatly force vendor lock-in. It simply may be a matter of a more utilitarian philosophy and priority setting-not just vendor lock-in. I'd love to see Airplay file sharing between iOS 7 devices and macs running OS X Mavericks, but it appears that is not happening. Is that due to a desire to lock-in customers? It wouldn't seem so.
After watching the ad the thought entered my mind that the competition doesn't even know they've been clobbered, much less how it happened. I was truly struck with how much Apple's competition doesn't get that this is about communication, not about chipsets, operating systems, megahertz, megabytes, and pixel depth.
If you think the ONLY possible reason Apple isn't enabling or supporting these other protocols simply is vendor lock-in, you must have unprecedented access to Apple's corporate strategy and far greater insight to hardware and communications engineering than anyone on this site. Maybe the vast majority of their own customers are quite alright with the way things are. I certainly find that over the years very many capabilities I had hoped for have eventually made their way into my Apple products.
Also, there are very many examples of things Apple could do that they have not done yet that would greatly force vendor lock-in. It simply may be a matter of a more utilitarian philosophy and priority setting-not just vendor lock-in. I'd love to see Airplay file sharing between iOS 7 devices and macs running OS X Mavericks, but it appears that is not happening. Is that due to a desire to lock-in customers? It wouldn't seem so.
There's an overwhelming amount of evidence to back up the belief that Apple is practicing vendor lock-in beyond what's already been mentioned (exclusive iCloud services, missing bluetooth profiles that are implemented on OS X, and disabled functionality on the iPad) you also have the iOS developer license, the unnecessary dependency on iTunes, and I could go on and on with examples for which you can't even come up with a reasonable alternative explanation.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/facetime-open-standard-never-happened/2012-12-06
FWIW I don't believe Mr; Jobs also said it would be a free standard. Perhaps Apple's offer had too many strings or costs attached to garner any interest from standards bodies. Perhaps Apple didn't follow thru in the first place and offer the IP. Perhaps someone whispered in Mr Jobs ear that Facetime was more valuable as Apple-only IP and forget what you said. Who knows. At the end of the day it didn't happen for whatever reason.
Good article on that link, but I had to stop myself from clawing out my eyes due to the sheer ugliness of the web site hosting it. What an assault on the senses!
Yeah it's pretty durn ugly.:\
Nothing changes; they change. iChat works as it always has. People just don't use IM anymore.
And don't get me started with Skype. I hate Skype.
Hey, you're right. I forgot about that. I'm not too jazzed about buying an iPhone I can't dock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
You need to refresh their homepage
http://www.apple.com/iphone/videos/#tv-ads-facetime-every-day
Just watched it...thx for the link. Impressive ad. Wow! Typical Apple. Imagine the work that went to getting all those clips from around the world!
At least it doesn't have things flashing in my face. Good thing we have Safari's Reader option. Man, I like that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I love these ads. And they sure do piss off the haters and trolls so they must be effective.
After watching the ad the thought entered my mind that the competition doesn't even know they've been clobbered, much less how it happened. I was truly struck with how much Apple's competition doesn't get that this is about communication, not about chipsets, operating systems, megahertz, megabytes, and pixel depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
Lastly, I don't think Apple should make FT platform-agnostic. For Apple's sake, it makes their own hardware valuable...
People always claim this, with zero evidence.
I could equally claim that getting people turned on to Apple software is an excellent way to hook them into its ecosystem, i.e., hardware (think iTunes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
You know what would really help Apple with it's Facetime push? Bringing back the f*cking iPhone dock that they discontinued for no f*cking reason at all.
Hey, you're right. I forgot about that. I'm not too jazzed about buying an iPhone I can't dock.
Why? There are a gazillion third-party docks/stands. Some of them even look nicer than Apple's prior version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And don't get me started with Skype. I hate Skype.
Yeah I hate the way they let you have a phone number from anywhere in the world and forward incoming calls to your iPhone. And charging you pennies a minute for international calling is ridiculous. What were they thinking when they integrated txt, file sharing, video and voice into a single application. And really?..how strange that they release it for so many devices and platforms, what a waste.
More that Apple made a standard first and they ignored it entirely. Now they're compatible with absolutely nothing but themselves and Apple's relegated to obscurity AGAIN.
Why would I want a Skype account when I already have an iCloud (and previous) one? Why would I want their horrible software on my devices when I already have great software, fully integrated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Yeah I hate the way they let you have a phone number from anywhere in the world and forward incoming calls to your iPhone. And charging you pennies a minute for international calling is ridiculous. What were they thinking when they integrated txt, file sharing, video and voice into a single application. And really?..how strange that they release it for so many devices and platforms, what a waste.
More that Apple made a standard first and they ignored it entirely. Now they're compatible with absolutely nothing but themselves and Apple's relegated to obscurity AGAIN.
Why would I want a Skype account when I already have an iCloud (and previous) one? Why would I want their horrible software on my devices when I already have great software, fully integrated?
That's probably why they fired Forstall. He was a Skype fan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Sending files over bluetooth has always been a buggy mess that simply didn't work on 90% of the hardware that it was supposed to work on. As a result, almost no one uses bluetooth to send files of any kind. You are just one, unique, very persistent user that wants and uses the functionality that the rest of humanity walked away from years ago. Now that Wi-Fi is so ubiquitous, things are even less likely to change.
Strange, I don't recall ever having problems with Bluetooth on Symbian... And no, Wi-Fi is far from being close to the same thing; Bluetooth is ad-hoc P2P, Wi-Fi is not (by default). Furthermore, there are plenty of other useful profiles beyond OBEX that you conveniently ignored, such as HID (which I mentioned), BIP, BPP, DUN, PAN, FAX, A2DP, AVP, HSP, MAP, OPP, PBAP, and SAP just to name a few useful profiles. Bluetooth works great when properly implemented.
So, again, I am waiting for your justification for both this and the remainder of my original points.
For example: right now there's no easy way to send a picture from my phone to someone else's that doesn't involve E-mailing it. Even exchanging pictures between iDevices and Macs is unnecessarily complicated. If Apple is all about simplicity, and they don't hae vendor lock-in in mind, then why was I finding it easier to do these things back in 2006 on my Nokia N95 than in 2013 on my iPhone 4S and iPad 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009
The ad is nice, but I still feel that video chat is a very awkward thing.
your point is well taken. who really wants to see our faces (we all ain't pretty), and thus our emotions (that's the key)? so i'm sure Facetime is used almost entirely between family, close friends, and trusted colleagues. i think that covers every vignette in the ad.
but that is a huge part of our lives subjectively. so it's still a very big deal - something important to us. that's why it's the subject of major new ad #3.
probably the key reason FaceTime is popular is that it is preloaded in all Macs and iOS devices. so once you have your Apple ID and a Mail account and load up your address book it Just Works. no signing up, no settings, and no ads. (you can always load the Skyp app too if desired but it's more complicated).
Apple is never going to go cross platform with Facetime. it could never be as simple and Just Work on other systems. but of course the real reason is that Facetime encourages Apple hardware brand loyalty within entire families and groups of friends. end of story.
Do you mean "(knock)ia"? lol
Yeah, over Skype.
"Powerful" huh? None of these new ads are what I would describe as "powerful." Miss the old, playfully themed ads of Apple's days gone by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907
"Everyday, more people connect face-to-face on the iPhone than any other phone."
Yeah, over Skype.
"Powerful" huh? None of these new ads are what I would describe as "powerful." Miss the old, playfully themed ads of Apple's days gone by.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this.
The previous ad campaign before this one was much more playful and did a good job of highlighting iOS exclusive apps
example:
However I feel like it was almost *too* frenetic going from app to app to app rapid fire, making it hard to sink a point in. Compare it to the original iPhone 3G ads highlighting a specific app, and showing how its use makes your life easier.
example:
I like the current ad campaign more as it shows people actually enjoying and using their phones in everyday life, much as we'd use them in real life (contrast with a bunch of dancers beat boxing around a tablet while break dancing on a table).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
People always claim this, with zero evidence.
I could equally claim that getting people turned on to Apple software is an excellent way to hook them into its ecosystem, i.e., hardware (think iTunes).
iTunes is a pretty bad example, as it is available on Windows.
And zero evidence? I have mush anecdotal evidence of teens who encourage peers into Apple devices because of iMessage. I encouraged my wife to move from Blackberry to iPhone due largely to this and in turn I encouraged many of my in-laws to move to iPhone due to the ease of use and fun of iMessage and FaceTime.
That may not be evidence that is "generalizable", but it also isn;t Zero evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsico
Strange, I don't recall ever having problems with Bluetooth on Symbian... And no, Wi-Fi is far from being close to the same thing; Bluetooth is ad-hoc P2P, Wi-Fi is not (by default). Furthermore, there are plenty of other useful profiles beyond OBEX that you conveniently ignored, such as HID (which I mentioned), BIP, BPP, DUN, PAN, FAX, A2DP, AVP, HSP, MAP, OPP, PBAP, and SAP just to name a few useful profiles. Bluetooth works great when properly implemented.
So, again, I am waiting for your justification for both this and the remainder of my original points.
For example: right now there's no easy way to send a picture from my phone to someone else's that doesn't involve E-mailing it. Even exchanging pictures between iDevices and Macs is unnecessarily complicated. If Apple is all about simplicity, and they don't hae vendor lock-in in mind, then why was I finding it easier to do these things back in 2006 on my Nokia N95 than in 2013 on my iPhone 4S and iPad 3?
If you think the ONLY possible reason Apple isn't enabling or supporting these other protocols simply is vendor lock-in, you must have unprecedented access to Apple's corporate strategy and far greater insight to hardware and communications engineering than anyone on this site. Maybe the vast majority of their own customers are quite alright with the way things are. I certainly find that over the years very many capabilities I had hoped for have eventually made their way into my Apple products.
Also, there are very many examples of things Apple could do that they have not done yet that would greatly force vendor lock-in. It simply may be a matter of a more utilitarian philosophy and priority setting-not just vendor lock-in. I'd love to see Airplay file sharing between iOS 7 devices and macs running OS X Mavericks, but it appears that is not happening. Is that due to a desire to lock-in customers? It wouldn't seem so.
This is a wise post, seems to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
If you think the ONLY possible reason Apple isn't enabling or supporting these other protocols simply is vendor lock-in, you must have unprecedented access to Apple's corporate strategy and far greater insight to hardware and communications engineering than anyone on this site. Maybe the vast majority of their own customers are quite alright with the way things are. I certainly find that over the years very many capabilities I had hoped for have eventually made their way into my Apple products.
Also, there are very many examples of things Apple could do that they have not done yet that would greatly force vendor lock-in. It simply may be a matter of a more utilitarian philosophy and priority setting-not just vendor lock-in. I'd love to see Airplay file sharing between iOS 7 devices and macs running OS X Mavericks, but it appears that is not happening. Is that due to a desire to lock-in customers? It wouldn't seem so.
There's an overwhelming amount of evidence to back up the belief that Apple is practicing vendor lock-in beyond what's already been mentioned (exclusive iCloud services, missing bluetooth profiles that are implemented on OS X, and disabled functionality on the iPad) you also have the iOS developer license, the unnecessary dependency on iTunes, and I could go on and on with examples for which you can't even come up with a reasonable alternative explanation.