Steve Jobs reportedly mulled axing Apple's pro products

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  • Reply 121 of 132
    drblank wrote: »
    jragosta wrote: »
    Pros don't want a cobbled-together kludge, either.


    I've built and used a Hackintosh. Even using perhaps the best laptop for Hackintosh use (HP Probook 4730s), it was a mess. Things that didn't work right, things that worked for a while and then stopped, and no ability to upgrade until some hacker got around to fixing things. And at least 20 times as much time supporting the computer as using a real Mac.


    Any pro who needs more power than the Mac Pro can't afford a kludge like that.
    What type of pro needs more power than the new MacPro?  They may want more power, but it's very fast, and I'm sure with the optimizations of 10.9, it will do just fine.

    I can see uses of multiple Mac Pros in render farms for 4K and 5K video.

    "Too much -- is never enough!" -- New Orleans Anonymous

    "The only time I say no is when they ask if I've had enough!" -- Mae West
  • Reply 122 of 132
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

    The rise of the h4ckintosh Pro is inevitable. Pros don't want a can on their desk.


     


    They sure do like completely unstable hardware for their ludicrously important work, though! image


     


    Who are you to say what they want? The case design is meaningless.





    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    I can see uses of multiple Mac Pros in render farms for 4K and 5K video.



    "Too much -- is never enough!" -- New Orleans Anonymous



    "The only time I say no is when they ask if I've had enough!" -- Mae West



     


    Is it just me, or is your sidebar font for just that post thinner? Oh, Huddler…

  • Reply 123 of 132
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    z3r0 wrote: »
    I'm sure they'll buy the current model, but down the road as the new xeon chips and gnu become available it'll make sense to build hackintoshes with bigger more expandable cases. Heck pick up an empty Mac pro case and modify it to build a hackintosh pro tower. It will cost less and offer more.

    More headaches. More hassle. More problems.

    Yep, you're right.

    But pros don't need more of those things.
  • Reply 124 of 132
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    More headaches. More hassle. More problems.



    Yep, you're right.



    But pros don't need more of those things.


    No $hit. Hackintosh is an illegal use of an Operating System.  I wouldn't hire a Hackintosh user since they have the mentality of stealing.  I would like to see someone build a Tower with 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports, and 2 GPUs with 6 G of RAM and 1250 Mbps SSD.  Yeah, right.  It'll be a while..

  • Reply 125 of 132
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,224moderator
    drblank wrote:
    I would like to see someone build a Tower with 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports, and 2 GPUs with 6 G of RAM and 1250 MBps SSD. Yeah, right. It'll be a while..

    Some would say that they could build a dual 12-core ($4000) with dual GPUs (AMD or NVidia), 128GB RAM, a 6000MBps Fusion IO Octal drive (yours today for just $103,450 - http://www.sabrepc.com/p-2521-fusion-io-fs6-802-640-cs-0001-512tb-iodrive-octal-multi-level-cell.aspx - Woz is at this company and apparently Apple buys Fusion IO drives) but it would be expensive.

    Those machines would also be messy and most likely quite noisy as they come with small fans on each GPU, fans on the case to cool the GPUs, multiple fans to cool the CPUs. Air would be flowing in all sorts of ways. With the new Mac Pro, it's all cooled together with one big fan and it's tiny:

    1000

    That lid design is smart too because you can't lift off the lid until you unplug it. Simple but very effective for ensuring you don't open it while it's powered up. They do the same with the iMac by blocking the RAM socket latch with the power plug.

    There might be two styles because most of the marketing shows black and the one on stage at WWDC looked black but the one outside was chrome (maybe the WWDC one just looked darker on stage):

    1000

    In a lighter environment, the chrome one could look more like the following:

    1000

    I like the white silver color they use in things like the iPhone:

    1000
  • Reply 126 of 132
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Some would say that they could build a dual 12-core ($4000) with dual GPUs (AMD or NVidia), 128GB RAM, a 6000MBps Fusion IO Octal drive (yours today for just $103,450 - http://www.sabrepc.com/p-2521-fusion-io-fs6-802-640-cs-0001-512tb-iodrive-octal-multi-level-cell.aspx - Woz is at this company and apparently Apple buys Fusion IO drives) but it would be expensive.



    Those machines would also be messy and most likely quite noisy as they come with small fans on each GPU, fans on the case to cool the GPUs, multiple fans to cool the CPUs. Air would be flowing in all sorts of ways. With the new Mac Pro, it's all cooled together with one big fan and it's tiny:







    That lid design is smart too because you can't lift off the lid until you unplug it. Simple but very effective for ensuring you don't open it while it's powered up. They do the same with the iMac by blocking the RAM socket latch with the power plug.



    There might be two styles because most of the marketing shows black and the one on stage at WWDC looked black but the one outside was chrome (maybe the WWDC one just looked darker on stage):







    In a lighter environment, the chrome one could look more like the following:







    I like the white silver color they use in things like the iPhone:





    Fusion IO is storage more for servers.  And?  You wouldn't normally put those in a desktop computer per se.  Most people don't have $124K to throw inside a computer.  Those are for storage solutions for businesses.


     


    The site you listed is for DIY, YAOYO hobbyists.  And? 


     


    So don't go around spouting off that it's better, it isn't.  It's meant for hobbyists.   And how much is your time worth?  Do you know the percentage of the population that buys computers that are hobbyists?  Probably a small percentage.  Why?  They are typically kids with limited amount of money that want to put together their own PC so they can play games.  That's TYPICALLY what hobbyist computer users do.  Play games.

  • Reply 127 of 132
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,224moderator
    drblank wrote: »
    You wouldn't normally put those in a desktop computer per se.  Most people don't have $124K to throw inside a computer.

    That was the point I was making. People who talk about the advantages of the old design tend not to talk about practical configurations but potential configurations and if they were actually used would cost a lot of money and therefore not affect very many people, if any. The issue about 128GB of RAM for example, the price for that 3rd party is over $1600, which hardly anyone would pay so only having 4 RAM slots isn't that big of a deal.
  • Reply 128 of 132
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    That was the point I was making. People who talk about the advantages of the old design tend not to talk about practical configurations but potential configurations and if they were actually used would cost a lot of money and therefore not affect very many people, if any. The issue about 128GB of RAM for example, the price for that 3rd party is over $1600, which hardly anyone would pay so only having 4 RAM slots isn't that big of a deal.


    High end pros that are using workstations WILL pay that much for RAM.  They've paid more than that several years ago, but RAM prices seem to come down. I remember not that long ago when it would cost $1000 just for 1 GB of RAM.  It all depends on the group of people you are referring to. But corporations that buy high end workstations will pay the going rate and if they need and can get 128GB of RAM, they'll pay what it takes to get it.  A lot of companies don't even play around with third party RAM because they will often buy extended warranty contracts which don't support 3rd party components.


     


    I run into a lot of kids that want high end, but don't have the money for high end, and they'll go the DIY, YAOYO method and they just want the cheapest they can get and they will end up buying (without knowing) 3rd party components that were actually B stock or surplus crap that isn't all that reliable.  But they'll swear they think that's better than paying the higher prices for premium brands.

  • Reply 129 of 132
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,470member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    The only hope to avoid what outcome? Dual 12-cores would cost over $7k so the audience isn't there and Apple only offers 64GB RAM even with 8 slots. The new Mac Pro will sell in similar numbers at launch to the old Mac Pro when a new model comes out.


    That would be the only hope for Apple to stay solidly in the professional workstation realm with the new Mac Pro.


    Just because you can't handle $6-7K doesn't mean no one else can... or that Apple can't handle such BTO options.


    As we all know, Apple is the last place to buy RAM unless you've got money to burn.


    The new Mac Pro will sell in larger numbers than the old Mac Pro, because after years of neglect the Mac Pro will again have current generation processors and a design that appeals more to the masses (as opposed to pros).

  • Reply 130 of 132
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    That would be the only hope for Apple to stay solidly in the professional workstation realm with the new Mac Pro.


    Just because you can't handle $6-7K doesn't mean no one else can... or that Apple can't handle such BTO options.


    As we all know, Apple is the last place to buy RAM unless you've got money to burn.


    The new Mac Pro will sell in larger numbers than the old Mac Pro, because after years of neglect the Mac Pro will again have current generation processors and a design that appeals more to the masses (as opposed to pros).



    They aren't going to do dual 12 core chips, no room and there isn't that much performance to cost ratio to make it worthwhile doing it since most of the apps that people will run on this will utilize GPU not CPU.  I'm trying to figure out who would actually benefit from using 2 CPUs when one 12 core Xeon will be plenty.  At some point, it's not the CPUs that get taxed, it's the other bottlenecks that make the CPUs sit there.  SInce 10.9 is getting some rather interesting changes, it should make this system plenty fast for the majority of users.   Obviously, there will be a small number of people that might benefit from dual processors, but that number isn't as high since those people would probably be better suited using a supercomputer anyway if they need raw CPU processing.

  • Reply 131 of 132
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,224moderator
    cpsro wrote: »
    That would be the only hope for Apple to stay solidly in the professional workstation realm with the new Mac Pro.
    Just because you can't handle $6-7K doesn't mean no one else can... or that Apple can't handle such BTO options.

    The highest spec is not the minimum requirement to succeed in any given market. Apple will do just fine with a single 12-core.
    cpsro wrote: »
    As we all know, Apple is the last place to buy RAM unless you've got money to burn.

    And Apple knows it too. Not much point in designing a machine to take 128GB RAM if the company only offers 64GB. It's not as if they'd rather customers buy RAM elsewhere.
    cpsro wrote: »
    The new Mac Pro will sell in larger numbers than the old Mac Pro, because after years of neglect the Mac Pro will again have current generation processors and a design that appeals more to the masses (as opposed to pros).

    Some professional jobs will benefit from the dual GPUs, some from the quiet operation, some from the fast PCIe SSD. Appealing to the masses and professionals is not mutually exclusive. Some audio professionals seem to love their 17" Macbook Pros, which are only quad-core, up to 16GB RAM with a single laptop GPU. Not having an expensive 24-core option may be disappointing to some but it's not a design choice that makes it unsuitable for professional jobs.
  • Reply 132 of 132
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    That lid design is smart too because you can't lift off the lid until you unplug it.


     


    Unfortunately it also means I have to unplug everything else, too. I don't have to disconnect everything to get inside my Big Mac. The consolation prize is that I can't think of many reasons I'd ever NEED to get inside the MacTube. No drives, no slots, no reason to open.


     


    I want a chrome one! That looks SOOO much better than the black!

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