Say it ain't so. If the so-called 5C cannot sell for the same as the 4S, this represents a huge failure in the conception, design and execution of the 5C. Apple needs a phone that is "new" and "inexpensive" to sell to the prepaid market. If the 4S is still around, it means they failed at making it inexpensive enough.
iPhone 4, 4S, should all DIE so Apple can move away from the dock and differing screen sizes. Kill the iPad 2 and move ahead with their new connection system.
What advantage does the 5 have over (what we know about) the 5C besides the aluminum back and being 1mm thinner? I'm not sure its much of a mid range really. I guess it could happen if they used artificial software limitations (such as removing Siri from the 5C) but I hope they don't do that.
If they have 4S stock then the analyst makes sense, though I think the ideal situation is for 5C, 5S only, then going forward 5C, 5S, 6.
I think they'll differentiate using storage size. e.g. 32 / 64GB in the 5, 16GB only in the 5C.
I still think we're expecting too much if we think there will be 45 models of the new "low cost" iPhone 5C: 5 colors x 3 sizes x 3 carriers (adding TDD-LTE) = 45.
Unless it's replacing the 4's and the 5 completely, and filling in as both the low and mid-range phones, leaving only the 5S at the high end.
This rendering is wrong, or at least not really based on the leaks we've seen.
As nice as it looks, it shows metal buttons when the leaks have said they would be plastic, and the black model doesn't exist at all (according to leaks) although it's absence is puzzling considering the poor selection of colours that has leaked.
Not to mention the Apple and iPhone logos in ALL the leaks so far have consistently been black. This shows the logos in silver or white.
And more importantly they wouldn't keep 4S coz developers then need to cater apps for the 3.5" screen aswell as the 4" one.
Makes no sense.
There offering should be
5S - High End
5 - Mid range
5C - Low end
Or prolly shuffle between 5 and 5C for mid / low.
What I'd like to see is the 4, 4s and 5 go away and the line-up exist as 2 devices. The Premium tier (5S) and the standard (5C), much like the old plastic Macbook and the Macbook Pro. Judging by the user approval ratings on the Chinese rumor sites of the 5S and the 5C, Apple's not winning over anyone unless the screen is 5" or greater. Apple needs to do something bigger than just offer a slightly cheaper version and premium at 4". I know it would be nice for me to travel without brining 2 iPhones, one on contract and one off for travel, my Mac and my iPad. If i could get a 5" off contract phone, to leave my iPad and replace my dual phones with a single device i'd be a lot happier.
I won't be buying any of them in the future. I am tired of having to buy new accessories such as, docking speakers, alarm clocks, and just regular sync cables everytime Apple wants to make money. I already had to repurchase everything when they switched from the 30-pin dock in Firewire to 30-pin USB only, not doing it again with the lightning. And not to mention how far behind in technology they are lagging, the 5S is still only going to have a 4" screen, NFC doesn't sound like it. Sticking with the 30-pin dock connector would never have been a deal breaker for me and I'm guessing not for the millions of other people who had tons of them lying around their homes, cars, offices, and bags. Not keeping up with actual technology that matters is a deal breaker.
Something tells me we will never hear from this one again. Except to sow further 'negative seeds of doubt' Samsung style...
This is exactly right. It has to be that way. The 5C replaces the 5, as functionally it is the same exact phone. And the 5S is the latest and greatest. And if the the 5C is actually cheaper than the iPhone 4 & 4S to make/sell at an 8 GB capacity, they have no need of keeping either of those two phones, as they can comfortably sell an 8 & 16 GB iPhone 5C at $0 and $99, subsidized. The carriers will love it too, because if the full price is $449 to $499, they can subside the hell out of it, easily. The carriers absorbs all the real savings on a lower cost iPhone, because the consumer is still paying $0 or $99 as before. Unless of course you buy it off contract at full price...then you are the one doing better than with the 4 or 4S. But, everyone does better just because its a 5C.
And of course, the last two major devices Apple sells with 30 pin connectors would be history. Not counting the more minor iPods of course.
I think one error in your thinking may be the assumption of them continuing an 8GB version. That part doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As "entry level", at going prices, 16GB is probably the new bottom regardless of which model is carrying it…
Keeping the 4S w/ the old connector makes sense from a "do-right by your customer" perspective. I don't think it is productive toward moving people to the lightning connector, but for those who have many expensive 30-pin accessories who drag their feet and would complain that Apple switched the connector technology without offering them the old technology, this makes sense in that way. Would Apple recommend buying the 4S? No. Do they gain the higher ground and avoid consumer complaints and regulator interference? Yup.
Until, about a year later, the 'class action lawsuits' start rolling in, claiming Apple knowingly sold them already obsolete products.
The 4S isn't obsolete today. Not quite yet. But it is already losing out on some of the new features of iOS 7. Fast forward a year. Was it worth saving $100 today? I don't think so...
Very interesting. Not sure what the source of those are. Not really "leak" style though? They look more to me like a lot of (decently) rendered mockups. CG… the first one, the website is especially not very well done. Nothing there tells me any of it was pulled from credible sources. It's simply regurgitating an aggregate of rumors.
This batch also differs in two substantial ways:
1. The 5C is now coming in SIX colors? (That means from 36 to 54 models if it is also releasing in three tiers , e.g. 8, 16, and 32GB, and three carrier models.)
2. The logos are in white rather than black.
So which do you suppose is right, if there even IS a "5C"? The black or white logo version?
The case is only a small fraction of the cost of making a phone - a couple dollars AT MOST. The cost is determined by all the other components. Furthermore, some plastic cases might cost more than some metal cases. So, yes, a phone with a high quality plastic case and top end components would cost more than a phone with a cheap, stamped metal case and low end components.
And, of course, the selling price is more dependent on the market positioning than the manufacturing cost, anyway. I've had several products where our high priced premium product was actually less expensive to produce than the low-end, generic product. There are lots of reasons why you might charge a premium price for a product that's cheap to make - or vice versa.
Although your point is valid otherwise, you're forgetting that the iPhone 4S has an extremely costly materials cost due to its use of an additional glass plating on the back, which is more expensive than the additional aluminum used on the iPhone 5. The cost of the processor and DRAM is actually quite negligible as well. Even when new last September, iSuppli estimated the A6 processor to only cost $17 to manufacture. The A5 in the 4S isn't dramatically cheaper because the die size is similar.
In any event, there's probably not a large difference in the marginal cost of manufacturing an iPhone 5C and a 4S. But, removing the 4S from the lineup confers some additional benefits to Apple if they choose to go that route. First, it simplifies their lineup of phone offerings to only 4" devices using the lightning connector. On the manufacturing end, this means fewer SKU's to hold in inventory. On the sales end, Apple might confuse customers by offering a plastic iPhone with better specs at a higher price point than a premium phone with specs one year older. Many, if not most, consumers who are passing on a $199 subsidized phone are doing so because they think the cheaper offerings have specs that are "good enough". Those customers would probably find the iPhone 4S much more appealing than the 5C even before considering that it's also cheaper.
If Apple does keep the 4S, it begs the question: why the hell did they make the 5C at all and risk their brand image by creating a "cheap" product? And then what does it say about the value of premium build quality when they price a plastic device above the 4S? Speaking as an Apple investor, I thought one of the primary purposes behind creating the 5C was to create an entry-level model that is both powerful enough to satisfy buyers by offering last year's premium specs, while also not being such a compelling competitor to the premium phone (5S) as to induce mass cannibalization.
I don't think this rumor is true -- the earlier one where the 5C replaces both the 5 & 4S is more believable.
iPhone 5S comes in at $199/299/399 on contract for 32/64/128GB SKU's.
iPhone 5C comes in at free/$99 on contract for 8/16GB SKU's.
The main reasoning is that this would be the best way to push more potential iPhone purchasers to choose the 32GB 5S by differentiating with the cheaper option on both quality and flash capacity. The manufacturing cost difference between an 8GB 5C and a 32GB 5S is probably no more than $30, so Apple's margins are much improved by pushing customers on the margin to the 5S, as long as it doesn't mean they lose an inordinate number of customers to competitors' offerings.
Apple's guidance for the upcoming quarter involved a higher margin range than many analysts were expecting, which suggests that Apple is expecting a more profitable product mix than the present one where some 50-55% of iPhones sold are the $199 and up model.
You could have just said that you don't have any idea what you're talking about and you're just pulling things out of your butt and saved a lot of words.
The cost of the case is only a small percentage of the cost of the phone. Yes, it's machined, but that doesn't mean that it costs more than a few dollars. It's also clear that a device with expensive internals and a cheap case could be more expensive than one with cheap internals an an expensive case. That's all I was saying - which refutes the person who claimed that a phone with a plastic case couldn't be more expensive than one with a metal case.
Another unfriendly and unconstructive comment of jragosta who didn't read (or understand) my comment.
Good luck with that, I added you to my ignore list
"you're forgetting that the iPhone 4S has an extremely costly materials cost due to its use of an additional glass plating on the back" About $1 worth considering they are less than $5 with international delivery on ebay.
They were probably a very good investment for Apple too, what with all the store repairs they do.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983
Two lines - 5C & 5S both coming with variable flash memory levels
??? Huh? Different amounts of RAM?
Or did you mean flash storage?
I suppose they could introduce the former, but the latter is more consistent with past practice.
Originally Posted by drwam
Apple needs…
Not really.
iPhone 4, 4S, should all DIE so Apple can move away from the dock and differing screen sizes. Kill the iPad 2 and move ahead with their new connection system.
Here's my speculation to offset his:
- iPhone 5S at the high end, in 3 colors and sizes (32GB, 64GB, 128GB), adds TDD-LTE bands for China.
- Current iPhone 5 stays 'as-is' in the mid-range with 2 colors, 2 sizes (32GB and 64GB), dropping the 16GB variant.
- iPhone 5C at the low-end, 5 colors, 1 size @16GB, same specs as iPhone 5 otherwise.
I'm going to hire out as an analyst. That was easy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug
What advantage does the 5 have over (what we know about) the 5C besides the aluminum back and being 1mm thinner? I'm not sure its much of a mid range really. I guess it could happen if they used artificial software limitations (such as removing Siri from the 5C) but I hope they don't do that.
If they have 4S stock then the analyst makes sense, though I think the ideal situation is for 5C, 5S only, then going forward 5C, 5S, 6.
I think they'll differentiate using storage size. e.g. 32 / 64GB in the 5, 16GB only in the 5C.
I still think we're expecting too much if we think there will be 45 models of the new "low cost" iPhone 5C: 5 colors x 3 sizes x 3 carriers (adding TDD-LTE) = 45.
Unless it's replacing the 4's and the 5 completely, and filling in as both the low and mid-range phones, leaving only the 5S at the high end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This rendering is wrong, or at least not really based on the leaks we've seen.
As nice as it looks, it shows metal buttons when the leaks have said they would be plastic, and the black model doesn't exist at all (according to leaks) although it's absence is puzzling considering the poor selection of colours that has leaked.
Not to mention the Apple and iPhone logos in ALL the leaks so far have consistently been black. This shows the logos in silver or white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok
And more importantly they wouldn't keep 4S coz developers then need to cater apps for the 3.5" screen aswell as the 4" one.
Makes no sense.
There offering should be
5S - High End
5 - Mid range
5C - Low end
Or prolly shuffle between 5 and 5C for mid / low.
What I'd like to see is the 4, 4s and 5 go away and the line-up exist as 2 devices. The Premium tier (5S) and the standard (5C), much like the old plastic Macbook and the Macbook Pro. Judging by the user approval ratings on the Chinese rumor sites of the 5S and the 5C, Apple's not winning over anyone unless the screen is 5" or greater. Apple needs to do something bigger than just offer a slightly cheaper version and premium at 4". I know it would be nice for me to travel without brining 2 iPhones, one on contract and one off for travel, my Mac and my iPad. If i could get a 5" off contract phone, to leave my iPad and replace my dual phones with a single device i'd be a lot happier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
Not to mention the Apple and iPhone logos in ALL the leaks so far have consistently been black. This shows the logos in silver or white.
They haven't seen these leaks then. I posted these a couple days ago.
http://www.ctocio.com.cn/cloud/316/12690816.shtml
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Riggs
I won't be buying any of them in the future. I am tired of having to buy new accessories such as, docking speakers, alarm clocks, and just regular sync cables everytime Apple wants to make money. I already had to repurchase everything when they switched from the 30-pin dock in Firewire to 30-pin USB only, not doing it again with the lightning. And not to mention how far behind in technology they are lagging, the 5S is still only going to have a 4" screen, NFC doesn't sound like it. Sticking with the 30-pin dock connector would never have been a deal breaker for me and I'm guessing not for the millions of other people who had tons of them lying around their homes, cars, offices, and bags. Not keeping up with actual technology that matters is a deal breaker.
Something tells me we will never hear from this one again. Except to sow further 'negative seeds of doubt' Samsung style...
That, or just a bad day at the office? :P
Originally Posted by antkm1
They haven't seen these leaks then. I posted these a couple days ago.
http://www.ctocio.com.cn/cloud/316/12690816.shtml
None of those are leaks, particularly the first one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
This is exactly right. It has to be that way. The 5C replaces the 5, as functionally it is the same exact phone. And the 5S is the latest and greatest. And if the the 5C is actually cheaper than the iPhone 4 & 4S to make/sell at an 8 GB capacity, they have no need of keeping either of those two phones, as they can comfortably sell an 8 & 16 GB iPhone 5C at $0 and $99, subsidized. The carriers will love it too, because if the full price is $449 to $499, they can subside the hell out of it, easily. The carriers absorbs all the real savings on a lower cost iPhone, because the consumer is still paying $0 or $99 as before. Unless of course you buy it off contract at full price...then you are the one doing better than with the 4 or 4S. But, everyone does better just because its a 5C.
And of course, the last two major devices Apple sells with 30 pin connectors would be history. Not counting the more minor iPods of course.
I think one error in your thinking may be the assumption of them continuing an 8GB version. That part doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As "entry level", at going prices, 16GB is probably the new bottom regardless of which model is carrying it…
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlevier
Here's my uninformed prediction:
iPhone 4S free w/ contract
iPhone 5C - 16GB $99 w/ contract (White, Red, Yellow, Black, Blue)
iPhone 5S - 32GB $199 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)
iPhone 5S - 64GB $299 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)
iPhone 5S - 128GB $399 w/ contract (Black, Aluminum, Gold)
Keeping the 4S w/ the old connector makes sense from a "do-right by your customer" perspective. I don't think it is productive toward moving people to the lightning connector, but for those who have many expensive 30-pin accessories who drag their feet and would complain that Apple switched the connector technology without offering them the old technology, this makes sense in that way. Would Apple recommend buying the 4S? No. Do they gain the higher ground and avoid consumer complaints and regulator interference? Yup.
Until, about a year later, the 'class action lawsuits' start rolling in, claiming Apple knowingly sold them already obsolete products.
The 4S isn't obsolete today. Not quite yet. But it is already losing out on some of the new features of iOS 7. Fast forward a year. Was it worth saving $100 today? I don't think so...
A big cheap big plastic phone would be too attractive and undermine high revenue sales.
And the 4s is acceptable as a contract freebie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
They haven't seen these leaks then. I posted these a couple days ago.
http://www.ctocio.com.cn/cloud/316/12690816.shtml
Very interesting. Not sure what the source of those are. Not really "leak" style though? They look more to me like a lot of (decently) rendered mockups. CG… the first one, the website is especially not very well done. Nothing there tells me any of it was pulled from credible sources. It's simply regurgitating an aggregate of rumors.
This batch also differs in two substantial ways:
1. The 5C is now coming in SIX colors? (That means from 36 to 54 models if it is also releasing in three tiers , e.g. 8, 16, and 32GB, and three carrier models.)
2. The logos are in white rather than black.
So which do you suppose is right, if there even IS a "5C"? The black or white logo version?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
A case alone doth not an iPhone make.
The case is only a small fraction of the cost of making a phone - a couple dollars AT MOST. The cost is determined by all the other components. Furthermore, some plastic cases might cost more than some metal cases. So, yes, a phone with a high quality plastic case and top end components would cost more than a phone with a cheap, stamped metal case and low end components.
And, of course, the selling price is more dependent on the market positioning than the manufacturing cost, anyway. I've had several products where our high priced premium product was actually less expensive to produce than the low-end, generic product. There are lots of reasons why you might charge a premium price for a product that's cheap to make - or vice versa.
Although your point is valid otherwise, you're forgetting that the iPhone 4S has an extremely costly materials cost due to its use of an additional glass plating on the back, which is more expensive than the additional aluminum used on the iPhone 5. The cost of the processor and DRAM is actually quite negligible as well. Even when new last September, iSuppli estimated the A6 processor to only cost $17 to manufacture. The A5 in the 4S isn't dramatically cheaper because the die size is similar.
In any event, there's probably not a large difference in the marginal cost of manufacturing an iPhone 5C and a 4S. But, removing the 4S from the lineup confers some additional benefits to Apple if they choose to go that route. First, it simplifies their lineup of phone offerings to only 4" devices using the lightning connector. On the manufacturing end, this means fewer SKU's to hold in inventory. On the sales end, Apple might confuse customers by offering a plastic iPhone with better specs at a higher price point than a premium phone with specs one year older. Many, if not most, consumers who are passing on a $199 subsidized phone are doing so because they think the cheaper offerings have specs that are "good enough". Those customers would probably find the iPhone 4S much more appealing than the 5C even before considering that it's also cheaper.
If Apple does keep the 4S, it begs the question: why the hell did they make the 5C at all and risk their brand image by creating a "cheap" product? And then what does it say about the value of premium build quality when they price a plastic device above the 4S? Speaking as an Apple investor, I thought one of the primary purposes behind creating the 5C was to create an entry-level model that is both powerful enough to satisfy buyers by offering last year's premium specs, while also not being such a compelling competitor to the premium phone (5S) as to induce mass cannibalization.
I don't think this rumor is true -- the earlier one where the 5C replaces both the 5 & 4S is more believable.
My uninformed prediction:
Apple discontinues the iPhone 4, 4S, & 5.
iPhone 5S comes in at $199/299/399 on contract for 32/64/128GB SKU's.
iPhone 5C comes in at free/$99 on contract for 8/16GB SKU's.
The main reasoning is that this would be the best way to push more potential iPhone purchasers to choose the 32GB 5S by differentiating with the cheaper option on both quality and flash capacity. The manufacturing cost difference between an 8GB 5C and a 32GB 5S is probably no more than $30, so Apple's margins are much improved by pushing customers on the margin to the 5S, as long as it doesn't mean they lose an inordinate number of customers to competitors' offerings.
Apple's guidance for the upcoming quarter involved a higher margin range than many analysts were expecting, which suggests that Apple is expecting a more profitable product mix than the present one where some 50-55% of iPhones sold are the $199 and up model.
Another unfriendly and unconstructive comment of jragosta who didn't read (or understand) my comment.
Good luck with that, I added you to my ignore list
About $1 worth considering they are less than $5 with international delivery on ebay.
They were probably a very good investment for Apple too, what with all the store repairs they do.
These rumors are to extreme and the iPhone 5 should stay as for it is probably not as expensive as it the 4S to the 4 comparison.