Haswell-based MacBook Pros expected to ship in September - report

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  • Reply 21 of 138
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    I want Intel to compete with AMD and nVidia however I still think customers should be able to have access to an Apple notebook with top level graphics unless that will just be for the iMac. My fear is that they will cut discrete graphics for that as well.
  • Reply 22 of 138
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    winter wrote: »
    I want Intel to compete with AMD and nVidia however I still think customers should be able to have access to an Apple notebook with top level graphics unless that will just be for the iMac. My fear is that they will cut discrete graphics for that as well.

    How about if we stick to reality instead of someone's imagination?
  • Reply 23 of 138
    I hope the still continue selling the MacBook Pro Retina model. Why would they discontinue it anyways? Hope Apple does not discontinue this retina model. If they had to choose; I pick the non-retina to discontinue!
  • Reply 24 of 138
    Maybe, do y'all have a guess of battery these things will pack?
  • Reply 25 of 138
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    jragosta wrote: »
    How about if we stick to reality instead of someone's imagination?

    And you say I'm not sticking with reality, check below.
    harry wild wrote: »
    I hope the still continue selling the MacBook Pro Retina model. Why would they discontinue it anyways? Hope Apple does not discontinue this retina model. If they had to choose; I pick the non-retina to discontinue!
  • Reply 26 of 138
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    Whoah!

    So not even a discrete GPU for the 15-inch model, is that what's being predicted?

    How would this compare to the current configuration which includes and NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5?

    My iMac is 4-years-old at the end of the year. I was hoping to jump to a pro portable with a really solid discrete GPU. Perhaps combining a refurb discount on the existing model with the black friday sale and reclaiming the sales tax when I travel overseas will prove to be the most potent combination.
  • Reply 27 of 138


    Apple please give us an dGPU option. 


     


    I think all the professional users will be on their knees praying for it.

  • Reply 28 of 138
    I like the idea that you have a light notebook with decent GPU for movies and most of the work you do. And when its not good enough, you will plug external beast thru Thunderbolt port... Same goes with SSD. You dont need much (extremely fast) space for everyday work (sure that someone does). When you do, you just plug in more space externally.
    I like this on the new MacPro. I already have huge NAS, i jist need very very fast disk for OS and NAS with Thunderbolt2.
  • Reply 29 of 138
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Intel may not compete with AMD and Nvidia on the Desktop, but for mobile the Iris 5200 is more optimized for professional work (since it has more compute then fill rate) then the gaming oriented chips made by AMD and Nvidia. Intel's drivers have been improving over time. I think it will be a good update for pros.
  • Reply 30 of 138
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,354moderator
    dunks wrote: »
    So not even a discrete GPU for the 15-inch model, is that what's being predicted?

    How would this compare to the current configuration which includes and NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5?

    Anandtech tested the Iris Pro GPU against the 650M and the 650M was a bit faster and this is shown on notebookcheck too:

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0.html
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html

    The performance is close though and Anandtech found Iris to be faster in many tests with OpenCL, sometimes as much as double the 650M - OpenCL matters more to Apple than gaming performance. NVidia's OpenCL performance isn't all that good.

    Iris Pro is getting OpenGL 4 support and OpenCL 1.2 support at launch so it should perform very close to the 650M. There is another rumour that Apple is getting a custom configuration of Iris Pro too. Right now, Apple uses a 45W CPU and a 45W GPU. The Iris Pro CPU is just 55W so they can run it at a higher TDP.

    The 650M is last year's GPU so this year's AMD and NVidia GPUs could be 30% faster but Iris would be better for battery life and Apple doesn't have to buy two parts. Apple is already paying to put intel's IGPs into Macbook Pros and paying for an NVidia GPU on top. Iris Pro is a more expensive part but I'd expect they'll save money somewhere.

    Someone here has even made a gaming notebook with Iris Pro for $1039:

    http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/LandingPages/ZeusHercules/

    The processor it uses is the $440 i7-4750HQ. The current entry 15" uses the $378 i7-3615QM. I don't know how much an NVidia 650M costs but I doubt it's as low as $62.

    People need to get over the idea that integrated graphics are bad things. They have only been bad because they performed poorly in the past and had poor software support. This has changed now. They don't have dedicated graphics memory but neither does the XBox One, which uses 8GB DDR3 with a small amount of fast RAM just like the high-end version of Iris Pro.

    If Apple can get the machine drawing 70W at full load vs 95W, it won't need as much cooling. They won't need to do dynamic graphics switching either.
  • Reply 31 of 138
    zozmanzozman Posts: 393member


    The 770M is the current GPU of choice for high end PC laptops & its quite a bit better than the 650m, for some perspective, the Iris Pro GPU is comparable to last years high end mobile discreet GPU, which is actually quite a feat & its really impressive, integrated is closing the gap, interesting times.

    I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the 
    Iris Pro GPU.

  • Reply 32 of 138


    My guess, and this should be common sense, is that either Apple sticks with dual GPUs, on integrated and one dedicated, both up to date for the times and prices remain the same.


     


    OR


     


    Apple goes with the Iris Pro 5200 HD, an optimized custom version would be great, and they forgo the dedicated chip but lower the price of the machine by at least 100$.


     


    External dedicated GPU would be sick in the t1ts. After all they have to get Thunderbolt 2 and 4k support right? Then right around the corner is a 4k thunderbolt display, probably 1999$ because 4000$ for a monitor is not going to sell, especially if the macbook pro has no dedicated GPU...

  • Reply 33 of 138
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    The performance is close though and Anandtech found Iris to be faster in many tests with OpenCL, sometimes as much as double the 650M - OpenCL matters more to Apple than gaming performance.


     


    OpenCL matters to Apple?  Really?  Is that why there's no OpenCL support on the current gen 11" MBA, 13" MBA, 13" MBP or Mac Mini? 


     


    If it mattered that much to Apple it would have shipped in Lion in 2011 and not two years later in Mavericks in 2013.


     


     


    Quote:


    Iris Pro is getting OpenGL 4 support and OpenCL 1.2 support at launch so it should perform very close to the 650M. There is another rumour that Apple is getting a custom configuration of Iris Pro too. Right now, Apple uses a 45W CPU and a 45W GPU. The Iris Pro CPU is just 55W so they can run it at a higher TDP.



     


    The HD4000 has OpenCL 1.2 support as well.


     


    Whether we see OpenCL on Iris Pro at launch depends on when Mavericks ships.  It makes sense to ship Mavericks with the new laptops but DP5 was a bit flakey.  Haven't played with DP6 but it could be anywhere from late september to Christmas before Mavericks is GM.  I hear they broke Airplay in DP6 and some folks see freezes they didn't in DP5.  Plus Safari, iTunes, etc are still having issues.


     


    My expectation is that if we see Haswell updates in September that they'll come with a free upgrade to Mavericks later and Mavericks ships with the Mac Pro.


     


    So there's no certainty of OpenCL at launch and probably not unless you upgrade to Mavericks.  The odds that they'll backport the OpenCL drivers to ML is low.

  • Reply 34 of 138
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


    I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the Iris Pro GPU.



     


    I'm disappointed but not surprised that the 13" MBP doesn't get a discrete GPU option.  If the 15" goes that route that would simply suck big time.

  • Reply 35 of 138
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,354moderator
    zozman wrote: »
    The 770M is the current GPU of choice for high end PC laptops & its quite a bit better than the 650m, for some perspective, the <span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">Iris Pro GPU is comparable to last years high end mobile discreet GPU, which is actually quite a feat & its really impressive, integrated is closing the gap, interesting times.

    I'll be a little disappointed if apple don't opt for a 770M or even the 765M for the 15 rMBP, i think the 13 rMBP could really use the </span>
    <span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">Iris Pro GPU.</span>

    The 770m is a 75W GPU. Apple ships their 15" laptops with 85W power supplies. There's a laptop here with a 770m and if you skip to 24:20, you can see the power brick sitting on the desk:


    [VIDEO]


    Yes, there are macho guys that don't care about the size of the power brick or the size and thickness of the laptop and would gladly pay $3000 for one made of concrete with as much raw power as possible and carry it around on their backs all day no problem but Apple doesn't sell those kind of machines. Here's a video of a hardcore gamer trying to repair his overheating laptop with a 770m, which overheated after gaming on it for 5 minutes. His repair technique is quite technical - note the heavy nasal breathing; your average consumer wouldn't know to do this:


    [VIDEO]


    A 770m would be as much as 2x faster than Apple's Iris Pro config but that was the case last year with the 680MX in the iMac vs the 650M. If Iris Pro performs well for OpenCL (and it does), then there's no problem in them using it. The option they'd have gone with otherwise would have been the 750m and the 750m is a rebadge of the 650m. AMD is doing a rebadge this year too. The 750m isn't that much better than Iris 5200:

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-750M.90245.0.html

    If the 5200 there is the stock clock speeds and Apple gets a faster configuration (potentially 25% faster), there's not really much point in paying for the dedicated GPU. The leaked benchmark shows i7-4950HQ:

    http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2139563

    That's a $657 processor and won't go in the entry 15" model. It also has iris Pro, which I assume they wouldn't bother to pay extra for if they were going to use a dedicated GPU on top - they'd go for a cheaper processor with some lower IGP part.

    I think people will be happy with the performance of it at the price points they hit, especially when it will have extended battery life.
    nht wrote:
    Is that why there's no OpenCL support on the current gen 11" MBA, 13" MBA, 13" MBP or Mac Mini?

    Not on the GPU but they have weak GPUs. OpenCL is supported on the CPU.
    nht wrote:
    So there's no certainty of OpenCL at launch and probably not unless you upgrade to Mavericks. The odds that they'll backport the OpenCL drivers to ML is low.

    Given the move to OpenGL 4, I doubt these machines will ship with Mountain Lion. There was a release reported recently here with no know issues:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-seeds-os-x-mavericks-developer-preview-5-1085-beta-6

    Even if there are issues that crop up, it sounds like they are close enough to master for shipping in 2 weeks or so.
  • Reply 36 of 138
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Keep in mind that the Razer Blade/Blade Pro don't even have a 770M. Both have a 765M.
  • Reply 37 of 138
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    Given the move to OpenGL 4, I doubt these machines will ship with Mountain Lion. There was a release reported recently here with no know issues:



    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/07/apple-seeds-os-x-mavericks-developer-preview-5-1085-beta-6



    Even if there are issues that crop up, it sounds like they are close enough to master for shipping in 2 weeks or so.


     


    LOL.  I just gave you a few issues and you claim there's no issues?  Even the dev notes show issues (that I won't repeat here).  Just googling DP6 issues show quite a few results.


     


    DP5 was flakey.  The scrolling bug sucked.  DP6 has issues with AirPlay, Safari, Java and iTunes.  USB in Parallels is broken.  Some folks are still getting the scrolling bug but not as often.  Office 11 doesn't install or works weird.  OpenGL drivers as 4.1 but only 2 out of 12 OpenGL 4.2 features.


     



     


    (from macrumors)


     


    GM in 2 weeks?  No.  I'll be very surprised if there isn't a DP 7 and they go straight to GM from here.

  • Reply 38 of 138

    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    USB in Parallels is broken. Office 11 doesn't install or works weird.



     


    How are these bugs? Why would Apple give a crap about this?





    OpenGL drivers as 4.1 but only 2 out of 12 OpenGL 4.2 features.


     




     


    Also not a bug. They obviously don't intend to support further than that yet. At least it isn't OpenGL 2 like Mountain Lion.

  • Reply 39 of 138
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    How are these bugs? Why would Apple give a crap about this?



     


    The scroll bug is a bug.  And Apple doesn't care about breaking Airplay?  Since when?


     


    Make you a bet...if Apple goes GM with Mavericks in 2 weeks I'll leave the forum.  If it doesn't, you leave the forum.  Deal?

  • Reply 40 of 138

    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    The scroll bug is a bug.  And Apple doesn't care about breaking Airplay?  Since when?



     


    You'll notice I quoted neither of those. Please actually read posts before replying to them.

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