Agreed. I went Microsoft free a few years back other than Netflix requiring SilverLight but I'm one guy these days. Many Corporates and especially their IT departments will hang on for grim death to what they know. It is one of IT's last islands to make a stand on for control. The answer to this, I think, is giving them a way out. The Mac itself and more so iOS devices have seen a huge increase in acceptance by these bastions of self interest and Office is about all many still cling to. If Apple were to seriously look at a Pro version of iWorks, even if it means very few sales in their core market, it may be a trojan horse and a life boat to IT as Windows sinks slowly in the west. I wonder if Apple could get a jump start by adopting one of the better open source Office Suites and licensing it and developing it to be genuinely OS X and iOS.
What cracks me up in this and many threads are those folks posting and citing many years in IT as a basis for their expert opinions! Ha!
I'm kinda on the fence with an idea like this.
Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.
Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.
At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.
Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions.
You have to wonder if Microsoft's board will allow the next person to tinker, which is basically what Ballmer was doing with the Surface effort.
Microsoft needs a mobile strategy but how gun shy is that company after this fiasco. Will the next person be allowed to pursue a hardware strategy or will MS go back to its core and provide only a software strategy. Either way it's really risky.
Agreed. I went Microsoft free a few years back other than Netflix requiring SilverLight but I'm one guy these days. Many Corporates and especially their IT departments will hang on for grim death to what they know. It is one of IT's last islands to make a stand on for control. The answer to this, I think, is giving them a way out. The Mac itself and more so iOS devices have seen a huge increase in acceptance by these bastions of self interest and Office is about all many still cling to. If Apple were to seriously look at a Pro version of iWorks, even if it means very few sales in their core market, it may be a trojan horse and a life boat to IT as Windows sinks slowly in the west. I wonder if Apple could get a jump start by adopting one of the better open source Office Suites and licensing it and developing it to be genuinely OS X and iOS.
What cracks me up in this and many threads are those folks posting and citing many years in IT as a basis for their expert opinions! Ha!
I'm kinda on the fence with an idea like this.
Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.
Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.
At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.
Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions.
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?
If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?
Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.
In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.
People who keep repeating that Microsoft is doomed. Quite a few around here.
Re their mobile strategy - they are late, but they do have good foundations in their existing (corporate-oriented) ecosystem. Really much deeper than iTunes/idevices one. True they could fail to monetize on that, but... it is not realistic to expect.
I think Google is aware of that perfectly well, thus their hostility toward Windows Phone 8 (and tablets outside of classic desktop).
Hmmmm...
If Microsoft fails to adapt, the way that IBM was able to adapt, well... Unisys comes to mind.
There's no tech guru on the loose that would take this job. A tech guru would start up his own business and sell it to MS or Google for way more money than this job would make. He could sell it to Apple but Apple doesn't over pay for things.
BUT...
I know of a tech guru who started his own company, and when it failed to find commercial success, his sold the remains of his company's intellectual property to Apple for just $400 million. And then he became iCEO of Apple. In other words: HE TOOK THE JOB. Can you guess the person I am dropping clues about?
[SIZE=20px]Ballmer forced out after $900M Surface RT debacle[/SIZE]
<p style="border:0px;background-color:rgb(245,246,247);vertical-align:baseline;line-height:19px;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Segoe UI', Segoe, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif;">Steve Ballmer was forced out of his CEO chair by Microsoft's board of directors, who hit the roof when the company took a $900 million write-off to account for an oversupply of the firm's struggling Surface RT tablet, an analyst argued today.</p>
<p style="border:0px;background-color:rgb(245,246,247);vertical-align:baseline;line-height:19px;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Segoe UI', Segoe, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif;">"He was definitely pushed out by the board," said Patrick Moorhead, principal analyst with Moor Insights & Strategy, in an interview Friday. "They either drove him out, or put him in a situation where he felt he had to leave to save face."</p>
<p style="border:0px;background-color:rgb(245,246,247);vertical-align:baseline;line-height:19px;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Segoe UI', Segoe, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif;">The biggest clue that Ballmer was pushed and didn't leave of his own free will was the 12-month timetable Microsoft said it would use to find a CEO successor. "Typically, a board will be working behind the scenes for a replacement, but they've given themselves 12 months," said Moorhead. "I think this went down very quickly."</p>
For me, the biggest clue was the interview he gave to ZDnet's Mary Jo Foley. When asked what he was going to do when he retired he said he hadn't thought about it. That he's hadn't had time to think about it. And unlike Bill Gates, who announced his retirement date and had his succession plan years in advance, Ballmer said "his" decision to retire now was reached very quickly within the last month or so. He was absolutely pushed to retire now. And I assume the reason is something very public and hard to hide, such as the $0.9 billion write down of Surface RT stock.
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?
If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?
Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.
In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.
Dick, are these comments about iWork accurate as far as your personal knowledge?
"Apple's iWork in the cloud can be useful for teams that must collaborate on documents or simply for working with your own documents from whatever internet-connected device is handy -- your own or someone else's. You can drag-and-drop iWork documents from your Mac to iCloud or create new documents entirely via a web browser.
The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.
Also, it doesn't appear that you can publish iWork documents to the web, where you can link to them and anyone can view them -- a popular feature of Google Docs. Apple may add this and other features later."
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?
If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?
Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.
In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.
RE what is Office Used for? It's a complex question because I think the answer encompasses a very, very wide range of uses but I have seen multi billion dollar companies' IT departments use Excel to create flat, simple (and horribly limited) databases that they insist everyone train and use …the use of Word to make horrible documents and / or PDFs that totally screw up when opened with anything else …
All too often companies are held hostage to the limited knowledge and head in sand attitude of their IT departments (aka MIS to me back then) who are fiercely defensive of the hard learned MS certifications and against change. I'm sure you remember well the old days when IT started blocking Apple ]['s terminal emulation to talk to their Minis and Main Frames once the PC came out? That was when it all began … One other example of IT holding back progress is the use of interactive web sites dependent Internet Explorer use … utterly horrible again and I am glad to say on the decline. Only this year, yes 2013, Central West Florida's Real Estate Boards are starting to use MLS database systems that work on Macs and Safari albeit they are as buggy as hell and terribly designed.
All the above is on the wane, mainly thanks to iOS but many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …
Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.
Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.
At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.
Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions.
Yes! There is a huge opportunity here!
My worry is, if they bolster iWorks it will always have that low end if friendly label. A pro version seems to be the answer to me. I also like the idea posted here of making the iCloud versions linkable with in web sites as with Google Docs. Both Google and Apple have been guilty of dropping things after they have been running a while and I know I have been left in the lurch having implemented things from Google docs across multiple web sites only to have Google decide to drop or drastically change things on me. same with Apple and Mobile me and even [dot] Mac before that.
p.s. why do I only ever see the hilarious changes auto correction in OS X makes after I post, never before?
As in .. I screwed it up ... I accidentally deleted the end of quote marks so mushed everything up and also must have accidentally hit an option or control key and had strike through everywhere ... it was a mess and easier to start over but you can't delete once posted I had to type something ... I was in hurry too ...
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Sadly, in my opinion. These applications, particularly the newest versions aren't better, just busier and fussier than ever. The Office Ribbon was supposed to fix that, but it ended up hiding features that used to be right there in a toolbar button. I've been using it for several years and I still have to google for answers about where something is hidden in the Ribbon. I actually suggested to Microsoft that they replace the Ribbon with a google search field, because more often than not, that's how I use the Ribbon. PowerPoint crashes on a regular basis (sometimes just opening documents), and Visio to a lesser degree. Outlook is absolutely the most fussy & bloated email client, and it regularly crashes or locks up for me. I thought the old Outlook Express from the early days was simpler and more fit for its purpose.
The problem is that Microsoft has locked-in corporations, which have standardized their inter-office document exchange on Office file formats. People email or share Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents as a method of daily communication. Printing and faxing are largely replaced with emailing documents, but for many white collar jobs, Microsoft Office is really the only thing they have open and running all day.
In theory, you just need an Office clone that runs well and can read & write all Office documents natively and without loss of features. In other words, full Office compatibility. That's not a easily as it sounds, and while there are many office clones out there, they never quite achieved 100% transparent document interoperability. I tried to go Microsoft-free several years ago (I chose ThinkFree Office because it was commercially licensed, and had the most polish), but ended up buying Mac Office because there were issues related to document compatibility. (After I switched to Mountain Lion, I stopped using Mac Office altogether).
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?
If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?
Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.
In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.
Dick, are these comments about iWork accurate as far as your personal knowledge?
Everything I have been posting about iWorks is true to my knowledge. I have tried and most of the features I posted about (except auto-hyphenation in Pages). One of the biggest downsides to iWorks, IMO, is the lack of feature parity in iWorks across all platforms. OS X iWorks has more than enough features to satisfy our needs -- but I'd like to be able to access those documents on my iPad or from iCloud. If you use features like Bezier Curves/Shape Masks, language support, Video content (Pages) or Categories (Numbers) -- I think you should be able to use them on iOS devices and iCloud. I think they are quite doable -- and have submitted feature requests. I just hope they do them. I realize my needs are different than users such as @Gazobee -- but his needs are valid too. Realistically, though, I doubt that most users would need the features to satisfy either of our needs.
"Apple's iWork in the cloud can be useful for teams that must collaborate on documents or simply for working with your own documents from whatever internet-connected device is handy -- your own or someone else's. You can drag-and-drop iWork documents from your Mac to iCloud or create new documents entirely via a web browser.
I haven't really used iWorks iCloud for collaboration -- though each user can copy an existing document and work on his own. You do get a notification when a document has changed (is out of sync with your copy). That seems to work pretty well. Somewhere in my experimenting with Pages, I ran across versioning or change logging -- didn't investigate it though.
I retired before the Internet (which made online collaboration feasible) -- so I don't have much experience. The only hands-on I have with collaboration: In 2008 I was writing an iPhone app that an Estimator for a moving company could take on site to prepare a quote in semi-real-time. The Estimator would walk around the house and enter items into the iPhone: 4 barstools -- tap the barstool button in the Barstool table entry 4 times... Tap, Tap, Tap... when all the items had been entered, the data was sent to the mover where a formal quote was prepared using proprietary software on a PC.
Anyway, I wanted to understand how the quote was prepared -- so the client fired up "Go To Meeting" and demoed the process... It was pretty slick! Unfortunately, he had neglected to disable input from my end -- I was able to push buttons on his screen... So, I did -- and screwed up the whole process... Sigh, first lesson learned.
The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.
I don't know that you need to own an Apple device to get an Apple ID... You can get iTunes on Windows at no cost -- and you need an Apple ID to access the Apple Store... but you don't need to buy anything.
However, as it stands how, you need an iCloud account for what we're discussing: 1) free when you purchase an Apple device; 2) paid $25/yr subscription to iCloud, for iTunes match.
Also, it doesn't appear that you can publish iWork documents to the web, where you can link to them and anyone can view them -- a popular feature of Google Docs. Apple may add this and other features later."
Yes iWorks presently is a closed system... But things like FCPX allow you to "share" with Vimeo and YT -- so it could be added later.
Ha! You do the choreography and sound editing -- I'll do the video editing... Cannes here we come!
If they can cast Kutcher as Jobs then Jonah Hill sounds about right for Ballmer. (remembering, of course, that Jackie Coogan has been dead for almost 30 years)
As in .. I screwed it up ... I accidentally deleted the end of quote marks so mushed everything up and also must have accidentally hit an option or control key and had strike through everywhere ... it was a mess and easier to start over but you can't delete once posted I had to type something ... I was in hurry too ...
I'm having a lot of problems too... it locks up and doesn't come back -- or just disappears. Don't know who's at fault: Me. Mavericks, Safari or AI?
Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.
Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.
At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.
Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions.
Yes! There is a huge opportunity here!
My worry is, if they bolster iWorks it will always have that low end if friendly label. A pro version seems to be the answer to me. I also like the idea posted here of making the iCloud versions linkable with in web sites as with Google Docs. Both Google and Apple have been guilty of dropping things after they have been running a while and I know I have been left in the lurch having implemented things from Google docs across multiple web sites only to have Google decide to drop or drastically change things on me. same with Apple and Mobile me and even [dot] Mac before that.
p.s. why do I only ever see the hilarious changes auto correction in OS X makes after I post, never before?
Is a pro version of iWorks really needed? The majority of new and non-pro users would never use the features. And I don't see the Spreadsheet Jockeys and DTP Pimps (no slur intended) leaving the safety of their Office apps for anything equal or slightly better.
Those uses will need to be disrupted and replaced by something that blows away the need for them ala VisiCalc!
As someone who had an Apple Dealership 7/10 of a mile from Apple HQ for 11 1/2 years... I, too, have been torpedoed by Apple dropping things after an enthusiastic start. All-in-all I prefer Apple abandoning things to MS continually dragging legacy baggage along.
Maybe they will get Phil Schiller he is a joke anyway!
"Phil's a joke" "My ass!"
Yes!
When Apple senior management began to emerge from the shadow of Steve Jobs, Phil was the one I was least impressed with... Where did they get this guy? Why? What does he bring to the table?
But in the presence of Jobs, the room becomes very small -- most people must adapt, bide their time -- then exploit opportunities as they are encountered or developed.
Watching Phil in public appearances -- I like what I see. He manages worldwide marketing for the largest corporation in the world (market cap) and runs a very tight and effective organization under what, likely, was a very difficult leader to work for.
Phil survived and He and Apple prospered as a result of his contributions. He never embarrassed Apple and was never Sinofskyed.
I liken his accomplishments to those of Albert Speer in the final years of the Third Reich -- while the Allies were methodically destroying their manufacturing capacity -- actual production was increasing under Speer's management! He did this by establishing little democracies and competition -- in the biggest autocracy in existence...
No small accomplishments!
"I seen my opportunities, and I took 'em"
-- Boss Tweed --
...many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …
I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.
Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.
Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.
Everything I have been posting about iWorks is true to my knowledge.
Oh, sorry for not being clearer! In no way was I questioning your comments. I totally trust whatever you post is the truth, so my sincere apologies if you thought otherwise.
The question was in regard to the quote that followed, not the comments you had previously made.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Agreed. I went Microsoft free a few years back other than Netflix requiring SilverLight but I'm one guy these days. Many Corporates and especially their IT departments will hang on for grim death to what they know. It is one of IT's last islands to make a stand on for control. The answer to this, I think, is giving them a way out. The Mac itself and more so iOS devices have seen a huge increase in acceptance by these bastions of self interest and Office is about all many still cling to. If Apple were to seriously look at a Pro version of iWorks, even if it means very few sales in their core market, it may be a trojan horse and a life boat to IT as Windows sinks slowly in the west. I wonder if Apple could get a jump start by adopting one of the better open source Office Suites and licensing it and developing it to be genuinely OS X and iOS.
What cracks me up in this and many threads are those folks posting and citing many years in IT as a basis for their expert opinions! Ha!
I'm kinda on the fence with an idea like this.
Apple doesn't really need to do this and it probably goes against Tim's laser focus, but at the same time there is such a HUGE opportunity here.
Let's say Apple were to get more serious on the consumer side with iWork. With the massive hole MS is leaving open with consumers, Apple has the opportunity to make iWork the consumer friendly affordable alternative to Office 365. iWork could be like the Office many home users knew and loved before MS replaced it with expensive 365 subscriptions.
At that point if consumers move to iWork en-masse they are going to force the IT departments at there jobs to make strides to support iWork. That's what happened with the iPhone and iPad. Consumers bought them and loved them, then IT departments were forced to adjust. Anyway once the shift happens toward iWork then it'll be time for iWork X, X Serve, OS X Server, and all to come back to ride the wave of Apple in enterprise.
Could be a pipe dream, but its one of the open doors that Apple has the risk of losing to Google. Google seems to be pursuing this same thing with Google Drive and Google Business Solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Apologies if this has already been highlighted.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241867/Ballmer_forced_out_after_900M_Surface_RT_debacle
You have to wonder if Microsoft's board will allow the next person to tinker, which is basically what Ballmer was doing with the Surface effort.
Microsoft needs a mobile strategy but how gun shy is that company after this fiasco. Will the next person be allowed to pursue a hardware strategy or will MS go back to its core and provide only a software strategy. Either way it's really risky.
I think Microsoft is in deep deep doodoo.
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
I have never used Google Docs -- but I understand it's adequate and free (if a little awkward). Is that enough to satisfy the needs of most employees in the workplace?
If so, iWorks iCloud is said to be better than Google Docs -- If Apple were to make iCloud iWorks free, and maybe a less-inexpensive iWorks (say ($9.99 per app) for the desktop (including Windows). Wouldn't that be a competitive offering?
Since this thread and the other iWorks thread on AI, I have been experimenting with using Pages on a Mac, Several iPads and through Safari on iCloud. Document management takes a little getting used to -- but the synching of documents is fantastic! I used to email stuff (images, urls, drafts, etc.) to myself to get it between devices. Now, with Pages I created a document called Clipboard... I Paste something into it -- and Bam it's on all my devices. Doesn't work for Videos (yet) but that is understandable.
In some ways it is better than dropbox, as you work with file within the context of an app. You can't share to other systems like Vimeo, YT -- but I expect that would be easy to add.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
People who keep repeating that Microsoft is doomed. Quite a few around here.
Re their mobile strategy - they are late, but they do have good foundations in their existing (corporate-oriented) ecosystem. Really much deeper than iTunes/idevices one. True they could fail to monetize on that, but... it is not realistic to expect.
I think Google is aware of that perfectly well, thus their hostility toward Windows Phone 8 (and tablets outside of classic desktop).
Hmmmm...
If Microsoft fails to adapt, the way that IBM was able to adapt, well... Unisys comes to mind.
BUT...
I know of a tech guru who started his own company, and when it failed to find commercial success, his sold the remains of his company's intellectual property to Apple for just $400 million. And then he became iCEO of Apple. In other words: HE TOOK THE JOB. Can you guess the person I am dropping clues about?
For me, the biggest clue was the interview he gave to ZDnet's Mary Jo Foley. When asked what he was going to do when he retired he said he hadn't thought about it. That he's hadn't had time to think about it. And unlike Bill Gates, who announced his retirement date and had his succession plan years in advance, Ballmer said "his" decision to retire now was reached very quickly within the last month or so. He was absolutely pushed to retire now. And I assume the reason is something very public and hard to hide, such as the $0.9 billion write down of Surface RT stock.
Dick, are these comments about iWork accurate as far as your personal knowledge?
"Apple's iWork in the cloud can be useful for teams that must collaborate on documents or simply for working with your own documents from whatever internet-connected device is handy -- your own or someone else's. You can drag-and-drop iWork documents from your Mac to iCloud or create new documents entirely via a web browser.
The downside, compared to Google Docs, is that you must have an Apple ID to access this service, which means you must own at least one Apple device. Also, you can only share editable documents with other Apple ID accounts. Therefore, iWork in the cloud is not really "free." In contrast, you don't have to purchase anything to use Google Docs.
Also, it doesn't appear that you can publish iWork documents to the web, where you can link to them and anyone can view them -- a popular feature of Google Docs. Apple may add this and other features later."
RE what is Office Used for? It's a complex question because I think the answer encompasses a very, very wide range of uses but I have seen multi billion dollar companies' IT departments use Excel to create flat, simple (and horribly limited) databases that they insist everyone train and use …the use of Word to make horrible documents and / or PDFs that totally screw up when opened with anything else …
All too often companies are held hostage to the limited knowledge and head in sand attitude of their IT departments (aka MIS to me back then) who are fiercely defensive of the hard learned MS certifications and against change. I'm sure you remember well the old days when IT started blocking Apple ]['s terminal emulation to talk to their Minis and Main Frames once the PC came out? That was when it all began … One other example of IT holding back progress is the use of interactive web sites dependent Internet Explorer use … utterly horrible again and I am glad to say on the decline. Only this year, yes 2013, Central West Florida's Real Estate Boards are starting to use MLS database systems that work on Macs and Safari albeit they are as buggy as hell and terribly designed.
All the above is on the wane, mainly thanks to iOS but many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …
I'm sure there is a movie in this …
Yes! There is a huge opportunity here!
My worry is, if they bolster iWorks it will always have that low end if friendly label. A pro version seems to be the answer to me. I also like the idea posted here of making the iCloud versions linkable with in web sites as with Google Docs. Both Google and Apple have been guilty of dropping things after they have been running a while and I know I have been left in the lurch having implemented things from Google docs across multiple web sites only to have Google decide to drop or drastically change things on me. same with Apple and Mobile me and even [dot] Mac before that.
p.s. why do I only ever see the hilarious changes auto correction in OS X makes after I post, never before?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Post screwed up
What do you mean "Post screwed up"??? How???
As in .. I screwed it up ... I accidentally deleted the end of quote marks so mushed everything up and also must have accidentally hit an option or control key and had strike through everywhere ... it was a mess and easier to start over but you can't delete once posted I had to type something ... I was in hurry too ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I am totally out of touch in this, as I've been retired since 1989.
What does a typical enterprise employee do with MS Office apps -- not talking about the specialist spreadsheet jockeys, or the pro desktop publishing uses... rather the other employees...
What do they do with Word?
What do they do with Excel?
Do they use PowerPoint, Access and the other Office apps at all?
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Sadly, in my opinion. These applications, particularly the newest versions aren't better, just busier and fussier than ever. The Office Ribbon was supposed to fix that, but it ended up hiding features that used to be right there in a toolbar button. I've been using it for several years and I still have to google for answers about where something is hidden in the Ribbon. I actually suggested to Microsoft that they replace the Ribbon with a google search field, because more often than not, that's how I use the Ribbon. PowerPoint crashes on a regular basis (sometimes just opening documents), and Visio to a lesser degree. Outlook is absolutely the most fussy & bloated email client, and it regularly crashes or locks up for me. I thought the old Outlook Express from the early days was simpler and more fit for its purpose.
The problem is that Microsoft has locked-in corporations, which have standardized their inter-office document exchange on Office file formats. People email or share Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents as a method of daily communication. Printing and faxing are largely replaced with emailing documents, but for many white collar jobs, Microsoft Office is really the only thing they have open and running all day.
In theory, you just need an Office clone that runs well and can read & write all Office documents natively and without loss of features. In other words, full Office compatibility. That's not a easily as it sounds, and while there are many office clones out there, they never quite achieved 100% transparent document interoperability. I tried to go Microsoft-free several years ago (I chose ThinkFree Office because it was commercially licensed, and had the most polish), but ended up buying Mac Office because there were issues related to document compatibility. (After I switched to Mountain Lion, I stopped using Mac Office altogether).
Everything I have been posting about iWorks is true to my knowledge. I have tried and most of the features I posted about (except auto-hyphenation in Pages). One of the biggest downsides to iWorks, IMO, is the lack of feature parity in iWorks across all platforms. OS X iWorks has more than enough features to satisfy our needs -- but I'd like to be able to access those documents on my iPad or from iCloud. If you use features like Bezier Curves/Shape Masks, language support, Video content (Pages) or Categories (Numbers) -- I think you should be able to use them on iOS devices and iCloud. I think they are quite doable -- and have submitted feature requests. I just hope they do them. I realize my needs are different than users such as @Gazobee -- but his needs are valid too. Realistically, though, I doubt that most users would need the features to satisfy either of our needs.
I haven't really used iWorks iCloud for collaboration -- though each user can copy an existing document and work on his own. You do get a notification when a document has changed (is out of sync with your copy). That seems to work pretty well. Somewhere in my experimenting with Pages, I ran across versioning or change logging -- didn't investigate it though.
I retired before the Internet (which made online collaboration feasible) -- so I don't have much experience. The only hands-on I have with collaboration: In 2008 I was writing an iPhone app that an Estimator for a moving company could take on site to prepare a quote in semi-real-time. The Estimator would walk around the house and enter items into the iPhone: 4 barstools -- tap the barstool button in the Barstool table entry 4 times... Tap, Tap, Tap... when all the items had been entered, the data was sent to the mover where a formal quote was prepared using proprietary software on a PC.
Anyway, I wanted to understand how the quote was prepared -- so the client fired up "Go To Meeting" and demoed the process... It was pretty slick! Unfortunately, he had neglected to disable input from my end -- I was able to push buttons on his screen... So, I did -- and screwed up the whole process... Sigh, first lesson learned.
I don't know that you need to own an Apple device to get an Apple ID... You can get iTunes on Windows at no cost -- and you need an Apple ID to access the Apple Store... but you don't need to buy anything.
However, as it stands how, you need an iCloud account for what we're discussing: 1) free when you purchase an Apple device; 2) paid $25/yr subscription to iCloud, for iTunes match.
Yes iWorks presently is a closed system... But things like FCPX allow you to "share" with Vimeo and YT -- so it could be added later.
Ha! You do the choreography and sound editing -- I'll do the video editing... Cannes here we come!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Ha! You do the choreography and sound editing -- I'll do the video editing... Cannes here we come!
If they can cast Kutcher as Jobs then Jonah Hill sounds about right for Ballmer. (remembering, of course, that Jackie Coogan has been dead for almost 30 years)
I'm having a lot of problems too... it locks up and doesn't come back -- or just disappears. Don't know who's at fault: Me. Mavericks, Safari or AI?
Is a pro version of iWorks really needed? The majority of new and non-pro users would never use the features. And I don't see the Spreadsheet Jockeys and DTP Pimps (no slur intended) leaving the safety of their Office apps for anything equal or slightly better.
Those uses will need to be disrupted and replaced by something that blows away the need for them ala VisiCalc!
As someone who had an Apple Dealership 7/10 of a mile from Apple HQ for 11 1/2 years... I, too, have been torpedoed by Apple dropping things after an enthusiastic start. All-in-all I prefer Apple abandoning things to MS continually dragging legacy baggage along.
BTW, you forgot free iTools!
Edit: Am I the only troll on this thread?
Yes!
When Apple senior management began to emerge from the shadow of Steve Jobs, Phil was the one I was least impressed with... Where did they get this guy? Why? What does he bring to the table?
But in the presence of Jobs, the room becomes very small -- most people must adapt, bide their time -- then exploit opportunities as they are encountered or developed.
Watching Phil in public appearances -- I like what I see. He manages worldwide marketing for the largest corporation in the world (market cap) and runs a very tight and effective organization under what, likely, was a very difficult leader to work for.
Phil survived and He and Apple prospered as a result of his contributions. He never embarrassed Apple and was never Sinofskyed.
I liken his accomplishments to those of Albert Speer in the final years of the Third Reich -- while the Allies were methodically destroying their manufacturing capacity -- actual production was increasing under Speer's management! He did this by establishing little democracies and competition -- in the biggest autocracy in existence...
No small accomplishments!
"I seen my opportunities, and I took 'em"
-- Boss Tweed --
"I'm a Mac... I'm a PC."
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
...many IT types are anti Apple to their core and will embrace anything that isn't Apple, and today as Microsoft fades, Android becomes their new last best hope …
I think your correct, digitalclips -- But with my clients it's the Management that pushes IT to embrace iPads. Macs (MBA) are only occasionally mandated.
Re: MS and Ballmer leaving. How about MicroSoft becoming a Software company again. If they feel they Must keep XBox around -- then crank up the titles for XBox.
Leverage the experience and coding resources to write great software for iOS, Android, Windows & MacOSX. Not via Office365. Renting software drives me toward an alternative. For a larger biz this may not be an issue -- I object. Being platform agnostic would get All of the hardware manufacturers back on your side.
Oh, sorry for not being clearer! In no way was I questioning your comments. I totally trust whatever you post is the truth, so my sincere apologies if you thought otherwise.
The question was in regard to the quote that followed, not the comments you had previously made.