Oh please. The notion that Samsung 'taking the wind out of Apple's sails' is bogus.
There is more separating these phones that a fingerprint sensor. Few buyers are going to pick that one piece as the deciding factor over general design and specs, operating system, availability of support etc.
Maybe the Note 3 will include a fingerprint scanner and maybe it will be utter crap or maybe it won't include one at all. But let's wait and see the actual product before we make such pronouncements. It is not like we have to rely on rumors for long since it will be released today. My worry is that it might be inferior but will be perceived as simply "good enough" to the general public. Few Galaxy Note buyers have ever been iPhone customers so this won't really effect sales very much. People that want a a screen that large would never consider a 4" iPhone no matter what other features it includes. The main selling point for a Note 3 will be the screen size and not fingerprint scanner.
They sold millions of iPhone 4 units, so clearly the antenna worked. And notice how the maps issue has disappeared too. Maps worked form many out of the box.
So what if samesung releases a fingerprint sensor. It's not like finger print sensors have never been deployed on mobile devices before.
The idea that somehow Apple's success comes from being the only ones to implement a technology. When it's a brand new tech that Apple invented, yes.
But for fingerprint sensors?
Whose writing this site these days? "Boy Genius" report?
It's not the fingerprint sensor that's important.
It's the fact that Apple can get over 100Million Credit Cards in its Apple Store 'Fingerprint Protected' over the course of the next year, and potentially, a billion in 5 years (if we all eventually buy a new iPhone/iPad/MBA).
Samsung doesn't have that payer database.... and they likely don't want to just give Their tech to a carrier or Google, and if they do the chain of 'security' starts to dissolve.
'trusted device'
'trusted os'
'trusted identity'
'Trusted Transaction Protocol'
'Trusted backend Payment System'
Only Apple can deliver all 5 of those. Any combination of less, and it's no more secure than looking at a drivers license and a credit card and assuming that both are valid, because they look to agree with each other and the face of the person presenting them.
Samsung isn't the worry. At least not at the end game (make 5-30% of every non-cash retail transaction. Everywhere.)
It's pretty well documented how Authentec's technology is purported to work. It's hard to fake a 3D fingerprint.
Agreed the fingerprint should be part of the authentication
1) The device Identifier should be paired with the AppleID, and should have a password to marry the 2
2) the fingerprint then verifies to the device that the person is who they say they are
3) the combo platter to external internet applications get Identity(device, password (app specific... from keychain), fingerprint)... if any 2 of the 3 don't match, then raise alerts.
The key item is that the iOS device becomes a token, that is smart enough to take 2 forms of authentication. It's hard not to miss your IOS device, and if it requires a fingerprint scan at the time of a fraudulent purpose... it's even harder not to miss your finger(s);-)
But, I am waiting for the first iPhone plus finger amputation theft.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult (hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
Samsung is not able of "taking some wind out of the next iPhone's sales..."
The next new state of the art iPhone is not going to suffer if Samsung does a Korean copy of Authentec's ideas in one piece of a very complex iPhone which I am guessing will set the standard for excellence once again in all areas, hardware, software, integration, ease of single-handed use!
It's the fact that Apple can get over 100Million Credit Cards in its Apple Store 'Fingerprint Protected' over the course of the next year, and potentially, a billion in 5 years (if we all eventually buy a new iPhone/iPad/MBA).
Samsung doesn't have that payer database.... and they likely don't want to just give Their tech to a carrier or Google, and if they do the chain of 'security' starts to dissolve.
'trusted device'
'trusted os'
'trusted identity'
'Trusted Transaction Protocol'
'Trusted backend Payment System'
Only Apple can deliver all 5 of those. Any combination of less, and it's no more secure than looking at a drivers license and a credit card and assuming that both are valid, because they look to agree with each other and the face of the person presenting them.
Samsung isn't the worry. At least not at the end game (make 5-30% of every non-cash retail transaction. Everywhere.)
Amazon is. PayPal/Ebay a close 3rd.
I think you made some great points. Apple will be able to offer all parts of the Trusted platform. Having said that I don't see payment by phone over actually just using your credit card catching on very soon unless several things fall into place. All my credit cards for example are cash back cards. They offer promotions like 5% cash back on gas for certain periods. They also offer an additional one year extended warranty on anything I buy. Unless I can keep getting those nice benefits by tying those cards to my iPhone I would be an idiot to pay with my phone if I stopped getting as much cash back or stopped getting an extended 1 year warranty. I am not sure how they will implement credit card payments on an iPhone but that is certainly something to take into account.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult (hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
It would still be difficult to go though multiple layers of skin on a lifted print... by default it would be missing information on other layers not lifted.
While I read every rumor about what Apple is doing, I hate that these kind of leaks have allowed their competition to focus on beating them at whatever they are planning before they ever announce it. I hope the move more production to the US. The only device they have been able to keep quiet is the New Mac Pro.
Yeah move production to the USA, and have the cost of iPhones go up No thank you.
What Samsung doesn't know, now that they've rushed their undercooked fingerprint technology to market and sitting back with a smirk, is that Apple is planning on releasing DNA technology.
That's right, Apple users will lick their iPhones and a DNA analyzer will confirm a match to unlock. It can't be tricked as the DNA must be fresh.
Alternately, for customers who don't care to lick their phones, a retina scanner version of the phone will be available featuring a high quality front facing camera capable of registering the microscopic details. This will be known as the "eyePhone".
The key "feature" will be reliability. To date fingerprint sensors have been notoriously unreliable. Andy Ihnatko has been hammering away on this point on the MacBreak Weekly podcast. It has to always work on the first swipe and it has to be completely reliable. If not, most people will simply turn the feature off after a few tries. Who can be bothered swiping their finger two or three times to unlock their phone. If Apple has this truly nailed then it could be huge. If not then it will just be another tech spec that goes ignored and unused.
Absolutely agree: with access there's going to be very little tolerance (read none) for a glitchy implementation. Thankfully given the need for backup for gloves etc. this would be something that can be turned off were it to prove glitchy with no real performance harm.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult (hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
Oh please. The notion that Samsung 'taking the wind out of Apple's sails' is bogus.
There is more separating these phones that a fingerprint sensor. Few buyers are going to pick that one piece as the deciding factor over general design and specs, operating system, availability of support etc.
You have missed the point, then, and you must not be paying attention to the main focus of Samsung's marketing (which is to claim superiority in the quantity of features, not necessarily the quality). I am not convinced that a fingerprint reader is all that compelling to the average buyer anyway, but that would not be the point of Samsung including one.
Comments
There is more separating these phones that a fingerprint sensor. Few buyers are going to pick that one piece as the deciding factor over general design and specs, operating system, availability of support etc.
If true, this just means that now we can give Samsung the Finger!
Fingers crossed!
Maybe the Note 3 will include a fingerprint scanner and maybe it will be utter crap or maybe it won't include one at all. But let's wait and see the actual product before we make such pronouncements. It is not like we have to rely on rumors for long since it will be released today. My worry is that it might be inferior but will be perceived as simply "good enough" to the general public. Few Galaxy Note buyers have ever been iPhone customers so this won't really effect sales very much. People that want a a screen that large would never consider a 4" iPhone no matter what other features it includes. The main selling point for a Note 3 will be the screen size and not fingerprint scanner.
Like iPhone antenna and maps?
They sold millions of iPhone 4 units, so clearly the antenna worked. And notice how the maps issue has disappeared too. Maps worked form many out of the box.
Another stupid article.
So what if samesung releases a fingerprint sensor. It's not like finger print sensors have never been deployed on mobile devices before.
The idea that somehow Apple's success comes from being the only ones to implement a technology. When it's a brand new tech that Apple invented, yes.
But for fingerprint sensors?
Whose writing this site these days? "Boy Genius" report?
It's not the fingerprint sensor that's important.
It's the fact that Apple can get over 100Million Credit Cards in its Apple Store 'Fingerprint Protected' over the course of the next year, and potentially, a billion in 5 years (if we all eventually buy a new iPhone/iPad/MBA).
Samsung doesn't have that payer database.... and they likely don't want to just give Their tech to a carrier or Google, and if they do the chain of 'security' starts to dissolve.
'trusted device'
'trusted os'
'trusted identity'
'Trusted Transaction Protocol'
'Trusted backend Payment System'
Only Apple can deliver all 5 of those. Any combination of less, and it's no more secure than looking at a drivers license and a credit card and assuming that both are valid, because they look to agree with each other and the face of the person presenting them.
Samsung isn't the worry. At least not at the end game (make 5-30% of every non-cash retail transaction. Everywhere.)
Amazon is. PayPal/Ebay a close 3rd.
It's pretty well documented how Authentec's technology is purported to work. It's hard to fake a 3D fingerprint.
Agreed the fingerprint should be part of the authentication
1) The device Identifier should be paired with the AppleID, and should have a password to marry the 2
2) the fingerprint then verifies to the device that the person is who they say they are
3) the combo platter to external internet applications get Identity(device, password (app specific... from keychain), fingerprint)... if any 2 of the 3 don't match, then raise alerts.
The key item is that the iOS device becomes a token, that is smart enough to take 2 forms of authentication. It's hard not to miss your IOS device, and if it requires a fingerprint scan at the time of a fraudulent purpose... it's even harder not to miss your finger(s);-)
But, I am waiting for the first iPhone plus finger amputation theft.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult
(hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
Found a link : http://cryptome.org/gummy.htm
It is now 5 PM in Berlin, at what time were they planning to announce?
======
OK. They plan to announce at 12 noon ET. (9:00 am PT)
This is the link for their live transmission:
I have a big bag of peanuts
The next new state of the art iPhone is not going to suffer if Samsung does a Korean copy of Authentec's ideas in one piece of a very complex iPhone which I am guessing will set the standard for excellence once again in all areas, hardware, software, integration, ease of single-handed use!
It's not the fingerprint sensor that's important.
It's the fact that Apple can get over 100Million Credit Cards in its Apple Store 'Fingerprint Protected' over the course of the next year, and potentially, a billion in 5 years (if we all eventually buy a new iPhone/iPad/MBA).
Samsung doesn't have that payer database.... and they likely don't want to just give Their tech to a carrier or Google, and if they do the chain of 'security' starts to dissolve.
'trusted device'
'trusted os'
'trusted identity'
'Trusted Transaction Protocol'
'Trusted backend Payment System'
Only Apple can deliver all 5 of those. Any combination of less, and it's no more secure than looking at a drivers license and a credit card and assuming that both are valid, because they look to agree with each other and the face of the person presenting them.
Samsung isn't the worry. At least not at the end game (make 5-30% of every non-cash retail transaction. Everywhere.)
Amazon is. PayPal/Ebay a close 3rd.
I think you made some great points. Apple will be able to offer all parts of the Trusted platform. Having said that I don't see payment by phone over actually just using your credit card catching on very soon unless several things fall into place. All my credit cards for example are cash back cards. They offer promotions like 5% cash back on gas for certain periods. They also offer an additional one year extended warranty on anything I buy. Unless I can keep getting those nice benefits by tying those cards to my iPhone I would be an idiot to pay with my phone if I stopped getting as much cash back or stopped getting an extended 1 year warranty. I am not sure how they will implement credit card payments on an iPhone but that is certainly something to take into account.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult
(hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
Found a link : http://cryptome.org/gummy.htm
It would still be difficult to go though multiple layers of skin on a lifted print... by default it would be missing information on other layers not lifted.
Okay, why would you WANT to look like an idiot? Answer that.
While I read every rumor about what Apple is doing, I hate that these kind of leaks have allowed their competition to focus on beating them at whatever they are planning before they ever announce it. I hope the move more production to the US. The only device they have been able to keep quiet is the New Mac Pro.
Yeah move production to the USA, and have the cost of iPhones go up
No thank you.
That's right, Apple users will lick their iPhones and a DNA analyzer will confirm a match to unlock. It can't be tricked as the DNA must be fresh.
Alternately, for customers who don't care to lick their phones, a retina scanner version of the phone will be available featuring a high quality front facing camera capable of registering the microscopic details. This will be known as the "eyePhone".
This is the link for their live transmission:
I have a big bag of peanuts
Wo never knew they did live streaming of there shows. Ill watch to see what's up there sleeves too. thanks
Like iPhone antenna and maps?
My iPhone 4's antenna and maps work perfectly.
The key "feature" will be reliability. To date fingerprint sensors have been notoriously unreliable. Andy Ihnatko has been hammering away on this point on the MacBreak Weekly podcast. It has to always work on the first swipe and it has to be completely reliable. If not, most people will simply turn the feature off after a few tries. Who can be bothered swiping their finger two or three times to unlock their phone. If Apple has this truly nailed then it could be huge. If not then it will just be another tech spec that goes ignored and unused.
Absolutely agree: with access there's going to be very little tolerance (read none) for a glitchy implementation. Thankfully given the need for backup for gloves etc. this would be something that can be turned off were it to prove glitchy with no real performance harm.
Not to dispute that it'll be harder to duplicate, but I seem to recall a couple of research scientists making fake fingers with fingerprints by melting gummy bears and pouring into rubber gloves for the form. Granted, getting a potential victim to willingly give up their used rubber gloves might prove a leeeetle difficult
(hey, I didn't say the experiment was practical, just that it appears to have worked.)
Found a link : http://cryptome.org/gummy.htm
That's why the newer security tech reads more than the simple surface pattern.
You have missed the point, then, and you must not be paying attention to the main focus of Samsung's marketing (which is to claim superiority in the quantity of features, not necessarily the quality). I am not convinced that a fingerprint reader is all that compelling to the average buyer anyway, but that would not be the point of Samsung including one.
Just more of Samsung being little turds.