The Apple Era begins as Microsoft, Google shift to a hardware centric model

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  • Reply 141 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    You didn't have to say ALL since as of June 2013, the iTunes Store possesses 575 million active user accounts, and serves over 315 million mobile devices, including iPods, iPhones and iPads, so over 700 million is ALL and then some.

     

    I  was referring to "all" which  politicalslug  inserted  incorrectly claiming that I had said "ALL" Tune account holders were affluent, which he then disputed.

     

    However, you are probably right when you say "June 2013, the iTunes Store possesses 575 million active user accounts"., although I seem to recall that the number has exceeded over 600 million since then and is growing rapidly.

     

    In fact there are far more than 315 million Apple mobile devices which you state. Apple have sold 356.3 million iPhones, 143.5 million iPads and, since FY2009*, 182.2 million iPods, which makes a total of 469.2 million mobile devices. However, according to  Asymco "Apple sold around 650 to 700 million iOS and is expected to be the fourth to a billion sometime next year." First to a billion users was Windows, second Facebook  and third Android - see  www.asymco(dot)com/2013/09/06/third-to-a-billion/

     

    * I don't have the data for iPod sales before FY2009.

  • Reply 142 of 182
    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

    First to a billion users was Windows, second Facebook  and third Android


     

    Facebook isn't an OS. Since we're not counting OS', I guess Apple is even further down the scale, since hydrogen atoms were first to a billion. Then helium, then stars, then bacteria, then shrubs, then trees, then fish, then…

  • Reply 143 of 182
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    I  was referring to "all" which  politicalslug  inserted  incorrectly claiming that I had said "ALL" Tune account holders were affluent, which he then disputed.

    However, you are probably right when you say "June 2013, the iTunes Store possesses 575 million active user accounts"., although I seem to recall that the number has exceeded over 600 million since then and is growing rapidly.

    In fact there are far more than 315 million Apple mobile devices which you state. Apple have sold 356.3 million iPhones, 143.5 million iPads and, since FY2009*, 182.2 million iPods, which makes a total of 469.2 million mobile devices. However, according to  Asymco "Apple sold around 650 to 700 million iOS and is expected to be the fourth to a billion sometime next year." First to a billion users was Windows, second Facebook  and third Android - see  [URL=http:/2013/09/06/third-to-a-billion/]www.asymco(dot)com/2013/09/06/third-to-a-billion/[/URL]

    * I don't have the data for iPod sales before FY2009.

    All of the iPhones sold are not active. The majority of that 356 million were bought by repeat buyers as we're iPads and iPods.
  • Reply 144 of 182
    murmanmurman Posts: 159member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

     

    On the contrary, one of my gripes was precisely that apps in 10.7+ will autosave changes that I *don't* want saved - such as rotating a pdf in Preview for viewing purposes - and that discarding changes is now an expensive process thanks to how OS X autosave is implemented. 

     

    I agree that autosave is supposed to act as a safety net and not as the primary means of version control. My issue was that apple's implementation of the safety net is rather frustrating to deal with at times. It's better in OS X 10.8 than it was in 10.7, but it's not optimal.


     

    How often do you rotate PDF documents anyway? If you need to rotate it, aren't you done once, you have to repeat it over and over? If that is what you need to do, make a copy, one original, one rotated. If you know its slow to save, don't work against it.

     

    To be honest, I don't even think about Versions and autosave, I only care that when accidents happen like how I turned off the wall socket to my iMac by mistake once (duh), or power outages, when I boot up the Mac again, I lose nothing, I think I lost a sentence that one time, but wasn't such an issue that I'd remember to take precautions. In this sense it is optimal, what's not optimal in daily use is to have to type a change comment and issue a commit command all the time for everything

  • Reply 145 of 182

    Daniel - What a classic summation of an amazing bit of recent tech history. Clearly you have not lost your mojo. A new fan.

  • Reply 146 of 182
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Facebook isn't an OS. Since we're not counting OS', I guess Apple is even further down the scale, since hydrogen atoms were first to a billion. Then helium, then stars, then bacteria, then shrubs, then trees, then fish, then…


     

    Wakey, Wakey!!!   We were talking about users, not OSs. ....LOL

  • Reply 147 of 182
    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

    Wakey, Wakey!!!   We were talking about users, not OSs. ....LOL


     

    Indeed. It remains equally stupid a list.

  • Reply 148 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    All of the iPhones sold are not active. The majority of that 356 million were bought by repeat buyers as we're iPads and iPods.

     

    Yes, iPhones have far the highest loyalty and retention rates. It is a well known fact that Apple devices also have the highest residual prices, which helps reduce the total cost of ownership of iPhones because of the high trade in values.

     

    Consequently most iPhones are still active, many beining shipped to developing economies.

     

    On the other hand most Android phones have little or no residual value. Most seem to get dumped in the garbage can by dissatisfied users because Android web usage numbers are far below shipment claims.

     

    This also seems to be the fate of most Android tablets even when new....LOL.. The huge shipping numbers of Android tablets claimed by Strategy Analytics and other Samsung/Google PR outfits, just don't appear in any web usage data....LOL

  • Reply 149 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Indeed. It remains equally stupid a list.


     

    If its so stupid why has the Asymco article with charts showing the race to a billion users already got 138 comments.?

  • Reply 150 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

     

    If its so stupid why has the Asymco article with charts showing the race to a billion users already got 138 comments.?



    I rest my case.
  • Reply 151 of 182
    Consequently most iPhones are still active, many beining shipped to developing economies.

    Is this a guess or do you have concrete numbers to back it up? And if all these used iPhones are being shipped to developing economies then they're being bought by people that are not affluent and most likely don't have a iTunes account.
  • Reply 152 of 182
    The problem for Google and Microsoft is that they don't aim for what the consumer wants.

    M$ makes their money from ludicrous licensing schemes in Windows Server therefore are aimed at businesses. Ironically businesses aren't keen to adopt new things and so Microsoft can't push new technologies until they grow some balls and kill off support for operating systems. For example no businesses left Windows 2000 for XP until just before Microsoft killed off support for Win2K. The same currently happening with businesses making a mad dash to get their software up to date to support Windows 7 because M$ is finally killing off support for XP. M$ can't make money looking after businesses.

    The only ones willing to accept new technologies is consumers and this is where Google has a problem with Android. Android is not aimed at consumers per se it's aimed at geeks. Most consumers don't care how many features a phone has. They also don't give a toss about looking like a Parkinson's sufferer with seemingly uncontrollable hand gestures just to answer the phone. They want simple. They want features to be useable and reliable. Geeks want gimmicks and aren't afraid to look like idiots because the world makes fun of them anyway.

    And this is why Apple is winning. Apple makes products for the masses. Yes many geeks have a lot of money but combine it with the money of the people BUYING Apple products and you've got far bigger pockets than a narrow subset of humanity.

    Until M$ and Google understand that the money is with the tech illiterate they will not make the money Apple does.
  • Reply 153 of 182
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

     

     

    I am not disputing that Microsoft's licensing practices were anticompetitive.

    I am disputing the claim that (and I am quoting your previous post): "If it wasn't for these illegal Microsoft business practices, we would be seeing successful OSes on the market such as OS/2, BeOS, NEXTStep, etc."

     

    The problem to adoption isn't this Microsoft "toll bridge". The problem is lack of broad consumer demand. Remember: OS/2, BeOS, and NextStep were preloaded on machines that weren't subject to Microsoft's "toll bridge": IBM-branded PCs could be purchased with OS/2, BeOS preloaded on every Be box, and NextStep preloaded on the NeXT workstations. These operating systems failed to reach critical mass without Microsoft's help.


     

    Your disputation of my claim has no standing.  You cited examples of computers that could be purchased with OS/2, BeOS, and NextSTEP loaded.  However, your examples contradict the very argument you are attempting to make.  BeOS is a Be Inc. product available on Be, Inc. computers ONLY and Be doesn't sell Wintel computers.  NextSTEP is a Next Inc. product available on Next workstations ONLY and Next doesn't sell Wintel computers.  The MacOS is an Apple product available on Apple computers ONLY and Apple doesn't sell Wintel computers.  Do you see where I am going with this?   OS/2 was an IBM product available on IBM-branded PCs ONLY but because IBM also sold Wintel PCs, it was forced to drop OS/2 due to pressure from Microsoft.  Not because of any lack of consumer demand.  

     

    You need to provide a single example of ONE PC CLONE MAKER in the 1990s offering PC Clones with non-Microsoft operating system that was NOT of its own creation.  No one dared to defy Microsoft by selling PC clones loaded with other companies' operating systems (unless, of course, they never sold Wintel PCs to begin with like Be, Next, Apple, etc.) and that is the reason why these operating systems failed to reach critical mass.  In other words, it was Microsoft's anticompetitive tactics that caused these operating systems to die, not because of the lack of any consumer demand.

  • Reply 154 of 182
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    DED, your sarcasm and bombast have reached record highs. You've gone and done it now. Microsoft will never again invite you to another of their legendary funeral parades.

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/10/microsoft_employees_hold_funeral_parade_for_iphone_blackberry
  • Reply 155 of 182
    ash471ash471 Posts: 705member

    In know what I would do to fix Microsoft.  I would buy Blackberry for pennies on the dollar and then convert both Nokia and Blackberry to Android.  It could be done overnight and Microsoft could be competing with Samsung in a heart beat.   Microsoft could create tight integration between its Android line and its Windows desktop platform.  It would have a better Android product than anyone else and could ensure it's dominance in Windows desktop for beyond the foreseeable future.   Success would be contingent on MS allowing Nokia to do the integration.  If MS touches anything it is doomed.

     

    We've seen the windows phone and tablet's fail.  The market has clearly voted it wants iOS and Android.  Nothing Microsoft can do will change that.  There is ZERO change that windows mobile will succeed. Rather than fight it, MS should join the party.  

  • Reply 156 of 182
    This is one of my favourite articles now.
  • Reply 157 of 182
    pmcdpmcd Posts: 396member
    superdx wrote: »
    Plus, 16:9 is an *awful* resolution for a tablet. Much prefer my iPads.

    I totally agree. This whole wide screen fad has been terrible for slate users. Makes using them in portrait mode silly. 16:10 is a bit better but still not ideal. It was a shame when Apple went widescreen with the iPad and iPhone. Hopefully they don't do that with the iPad.

    Philip
  • Reply 158 of 182
    pmcdpmcd Posts: 396member
    ash471 wrote: »
    In know what I would do to fix Microsoft.  I would buy Blackberry for pennies on the dollar and then convert both Nokia and Blackberry to Android.  It could be done overnight and Microsoft could be competing with Samsung in a heart beat.   Microsoft could create tight integration between its Android line and its Windows desktop platform.  It would have a better Android product than anyone else and could ensure it's dominance in Windows desktop for beyond the foreseeable future.   Success would be contingent on MS allowing Nokia to do the integration.  If MS touches anything it is doomed.

    We've seen the windows phone and tablet's fail.  The market has clearly voted it wants iOS and Android.  Nothing Microsoft can do will change that.  There is ZERO change that windows mobile will succeed. Rather than fight it, MS should join the party.  

    It is way to early to count Microsoft out. Android is a bit of a mess and seems chaotic. Windows 8 is actually pretty nice and they just have to deal with Intel being late to the power saving club. Put in a low cost Intel system with long battery life, lower the price of a Surface, bring out 4:3 or if not then 16:10 tablets with writing capabilities at iPad or lower prices and you will see a very different landscape.

    Most computers continue to run Windows, MS Word and Excel are still must have software for most businesses. This is not a minor advantage. Unless people abandon Office it's not hard to see how Microsoft could play to that advantage.

    If anything is at risk it is Android. The only thing they have going for them is low cost hardware which is mostly unappealing. Phones are tricky markets. Things could change rapidly. I can imagine a scenario with iOS and Windows as the dominant foundations.

    Microsoft took ages to deal with Netscape. They can certainly keep plugging away at mobile devices and unless someone weans people off Office anything is possible.

    Philip
  • Reply 159 of 182
    Quote:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

     

     

    Apple's lack of market share can be attributed to the fact that they never bothered selling there products at a mid ranged price point.

     


     

    Originally Posted by Anome View Post

    Not at all true. Back in the 90s, they sold a range of computers at a variety of pricepoints, from really expensive top end workstations, down to entry-level. And they nearly went bankrupt around the same time.


     

    Yes that was the period, Apple's product line was confusing and had little to almost no innovation in them. It's a very different Apple today.

     

  • Reply 160 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Is this a guess or do you have concrete numbers to back it up? And if all these used iPhones are being shipped to developing economies then they're being bought by people that are not affluent and most likely don't have a iTunes account.

     

    No, I don't have concrete numbers. But you don't have to be a genius to join the dots: if there is strong demand for used iPhones it is an obvious conclusion that people are buying them in order to use them....!  Are you seriously contending that people are buying used iPhones but then don't use them?

     

    There have also been numerous references in the media to trade in iPhones being shipped internationally. For example cnet reported ""the service would give customers a trade-in value for the handset estimated at $125 for an iPhone 4, $200 for an iPhone 4S, and $250 for an iPhone 5 -- with a fresh contract. An unnamed source told The Wall Street Journal that the most Apple would be willing to credit customers would be about $280. ABC reported a figure closer to $300, also according to an unnamed source." With Apple on the sidelines of the iPhone aftermarket for years, other trade-in options have cropped up to meet the need -- sometimes at values much higher than those being reported for an Apple program. People who want to ditch their phone when a new one comes along, without eating the full cost, found other companies willing to welcome them with open arms. Devices traded in on sites like Gazelle and NextWorth are sold internationally in places where iPhones are very expensive. Right now, a 64GB iPhone 5 can snag a customer $370 on NextWorth."

     

    As for your contentions  "if all these used iPhones are being shipped to developing economies then they're being bought by people that are not affluent and most likely don't have a iTunes account", you confuse affluence as an absolute rather than relative term.

     

    Have you any evidence that people in underdeveloped countries are not relatively affluent compared to the average in their societies?  Consider that they are paying a premium price for a used iPhone compared to a cheap Android.

     

    The trade-in values quoted in the cnet article indicate that buyers are paying almost as much or even more than the US carriers subsidised price for a new iPhone.

     

    And what evidence have you for you illogical conclusion that buyers who pay a premium price in their home market to buy a used iPhone, then cannot afford to buy Apps and other iTunes media?

     

    In fact there is evidence of huge global demand for iOS Apps, including in developing countries. china.org reported "Apple CEO Tim Cook said on Monday that Apple has more than 6 million registered developers globally, with 1.5 million added in just the last year.....According to UMeng, a Beijing-based startup focusing on serving app developers with detailed apps-usage data, the total number of Chinese iOS developers has increased 9.3 times from 2011 to 2013."   

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