Shares of Apple slide, analysts cut targets in disappointment over iPhone 5c pricing

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  • Reply 121 of 301
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    herbapou wrote: »
    I like Jon Fortt point that the cheap iphone could be the watch. The same way people wanted Apple to make netbooks but instead came out with the ipad.

    That being said, I wish they could offer a bigger screen model. I have no choice to renew my 4s for a Nexus 4 which better fits my needs.  at $250, its not a big risk and its going to be paid in 6 months on the money I save on the plan alone.
    Hmm...Fortt may be on to something. When Tim Cook was asked about a cheaper phone earlier this year at the Goldman Sachs conference he pivoted to the iPod and the product he brought up was the shuffle. I've said before I think Apple might go in a completely different direction with respect to emerging markets and maybe that's something we'll see play out in 2014.
  • Reply 122 of 301
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     

    The street always give the wrong reason of why a stock goes up or down.  AAPL began dropping yesterday after 11AM PT when the show was over.  The price of 3C was announced much earlier.  It seems the investors was waiting for the one last thing that is a 5 inch iPhone.  Apple has missed a huge market which is every bigger than iPhone.  The combined sales of larger smartphones are bigger than iPhone.  With a bigger iPhone Apple can resume growth. 


     

    the only problem is...there is no such market.  5"+ phones are not selling well.  The fantasyland nonsense people spew is mind boggling.  here you have Apple making more money than any other phone maker by a country mile and the trolls/analysts think they need to kill their margins by introducing a volume loss leader.  No wonder these people are analysts rather than real jobs where you have to add value.

  • Reply 123 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    rogifan wrote: »
    How can anyone take Munster seriously?

    I take him seriously as a price analyst. His predictions are crap but I bet he knows something about Apple projects but Cook is too timid to pull trigger on new product releases. Cooks a disaster. Bring back forstall.
  • Reply 124 of 301
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,022member

    As much as consumers and investors are disappointed by the lack of a large-display iPhone, we should appreciate that Apple is protecting its developer base--keeping developers happy--by not tossing off one odd display format after another. After all, the unmatched selection of well-functioning iOS apps is Apple's most valuable asset.

     

    Android "supports" a wide range of display sizes and resolutions by adapting dynamically, which leads to ugly, poorly functioning interfaces. In contrast, iOS requires developers to produce custom-tailored content and control layouts, which yields consistent, fully functional interfaces across all i-Devices. The introduction of retina displays was easily handled in iOS by pixel-doubling and the introduction of the iPad mini was handled by not changing the pixel count. Switching to a larger iPhone display while maintaining retina resolution is a far more difficult problem. If Apple doesn't make this transition carefully, many developers will be unable to make the transition themselves. In fact, there may be no easy path for Apple (or developers), which is why Apple may delay the transition until it absolutely has to be made in order to survive.

     

    Apple has made many major platform transitions in its history--and all but the Apple II to Mac transition were made very smoothly. The transition to a large display iPhone looks to be the second-most difficult ever.

  • Reply 125 of 301
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

     

     

    I am sooooo tired of hauling this out but here it is:

     

    Apple II 1977

    Mac 1984

    PowerBook 1991

    Newton 1993

    iPod 2001

    iPhone 2007

    iPad 2010

     

    Average interval between major new product introductions:  5.5 years.  My advice is, if you only started paying attention when iPhone first came out, then be patient.  A 3 year gap is at the low end of the range.  Even if we limit the numbers to the Steve Jobs era.


     

    but they did not come out with the star trek holodeck so Apple is FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!  I mean, revolutionizing existing markets is simple and is done every year by google, samesung, microsoft, etc...

  • Reply 126 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    bullhead wrote: »
    the only problem is...there is no such market.  5"+ phones are not selling well.  The fantasyland nonsense people spew is mind boggling.  here you have Apple making more money than any other phone maker by a country mile and the trolls/analysts think they need to kill their margins by introducing a volume loss leader.  No wonder these people are analysts rather than real jobs where you have to add value.

    Munster was talking about a low end device starting 15% margins leading to MORE REVENUE and higher EPS. And bigger market share. Which is what. all sane investors care about. The obsession with margin is the doltish nonsense and baboonery you get only here. Christ you probably think they should sell 29 gold plated iPhones a year at 98.98% margins and forget the middle classes.
  • Reply 127 of 301
    apple ][ wrote: »
    Just to nitpick, there are a few more differences between the 5c and the 5. It has a new facetime camera I believe, it has a slightly larger battery and it also has more LTE bands.

    And yes, I agree with you that the 5s looks great. I like the space grey one myself, though all colors look nice. I also think that the Touch ID is going to be huge. Yeah, other devices have had something similar before, but they've all been crap, until Apple comes along and does it right of course.

    You're right, so I stand corrected.

    Well all the new colors look great. I thought that the gold one was going to look gaudy but the white face and gold back is a very attractive combination.
  • Reply 128 of 301
    cpsro wrote: »
    As much as consumers and investors are disappointed by the lack of a large-display iPhone, we should appreciate that Apple is protecting its developer base--keeping developers happy--by not tossing off one odd display format after another. After all, the unmatched selection of well-functioning iOS apps is Apple's most valuable asset.

    Android "supports" a wide range of display sizes and resolutions by adapting dynamically, which leads to ugly, poorly functioning interfaces. In contrast, iOS requires developers to produce custom-tailored content and control layouts, which yields consistent, fully functional interfaces across all i-Devices. The introduction of retina displays was easily handled in iOS by pixel-doubling and the introduction of the iPad mini was handled by not changing the pixel count. Switching to a larger iPhone display while maintaining retina resolution is a far more difficult problem. If Apple doesn't make this transition carefully, many developers will be unable to make the transition themselves. In fact, there may be no easy path for Apple (or developers), which is why Apple may delay the transition until it absolutely has to be made in order to survive.

    Apple has made many major platform transitions in its history and all relatively smoothly. The transition to a large display iPhone looks to be the most difficult by far.

    Then keeping the 4S with both a different size display and a different connector makes little sense. An 8GB 5C could have been the free w/contract phone.
  • Reply 129 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    cpsro wrote: »
    As much as consumers and investors are disappointed by the lack of a large-display iPhone, we should appreciate that Apple is protecting its developer base--keeping developers happy--by not tossing off one odd display format after another. After all, the unmatched selection of well-functioning iOS apps is Apple's most valuable asset.

    Android "supports" a wide range of display sizes and resolutions by adapting dynamically, which leads to ugly, poorly functioning interfaces. In contrast, iOS requires developers to produce custom-tailored content and control layouts, which yields consistent, fully functional interfaces across all i-Devices. The introduction of retina displays was easily handled in iOS by pixel-doubling and the introduction of the iPad mini was handled by not changing the pixel count. Switching to a larger iPhone display while maintaining retina resolution is a far more difficult problem. If Apple doesn't make this transition carefully, many developers will be unable to make the transition themselves. In fact, there may be no easy path for Apple (or developers), which is why Apple may delay the transition until it absolutely has to be made in order to survive.

    Apple has made many major platform transitions in its history and all relatively smoothly. The transition to a large display iPhone looks to be the most difficult by far.

    That's bollocks too. Pair for the course for modern Apple Insider. Apple has a technology - 2 Oses old - called auto layout which does what android does. It's not that easy but its there. With iOS 7 and text buttons increasing screen sizes will take no work because the art won't need refactoring. Devs have far more to worry about than screen sizes.
  • Reply 130 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    captain j wrote: »
    Then keeping the 4S with both a different size display and a different connector makes little sense. An 8GB 5C could have been the free w/contract phone.

    Good point.
  • Reply 131 of 301
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    asdasd wrote: »
    I take him seriously as a price analyst. His predictions are crap but I bet he knows something about Apple projects but Cook is too timid to pull trigger on new product releases. Cooks a disaster. Bring back forstall.
    Bring back Forstall to do what??
  • Reply 132 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    pmz wrote: »
    There is still a massive market worldwide at $550.

    This is a brand new 16 GB iPhone 5C. That's actually a $100 cheaper than the most comparable offering yesterday, worldwide.

    It's the "cheap phone". There is bog all market for it. I would have bought 2 - one as a present - at about 400 euro entry. I am not buying the 5C at 550 even for me. Nor the 5S because these kind of pricing shenanigans piss me off. I'll stay with the 4S unless cheaper discounted 5's become available.
  • Reply 133 of 301
    Could just ONE analyst be fired for incompetence, please?

    One of them. Start small. I need some validation that the entire market isn't now completely full of idiots.

    When i posted my opinion yesterday I mentioned stock price falling, you gave some rather flat comments on that, now you see the reality.

    There is not enough price space between 5C and 5S, here in Europe we will pay more than 550€ (around 650$) for a 16GB 5C.
    This is bordering on ridicoclous ! and yes, we are talking plastic ....whatever the 'geniuses' at Apple may call it.

    What use is for instance the 64bit CPU for us end users? all we care about is speed and longer battery life...only improvement there is that the 5S has longer standby time, wow...hold the press,big advantage...

    Before you react, I'm a devoted Apple fan with lots of Apple material, this time I just find that they are aligning their iPhones to what Samung is doing, but Samsung does the same only 30% cheaper.

    That's what I meant yesterday, where are the magic moments at Apple?
  • Reply 134 of 301

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

    Shares of Apple were off nearly $30, or close to 6 percent, in morning trading on Wednesday as investors reacted to the announcement of the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c.

     

    Here's the New World Order for Apple "analysts":

    1. Analysts publish wildly varying predictions about upcoming Apple products, hoping for a random "hit."

    2. Investors short AAPL because it's fashionable at the moment (the "herd mentality.")

    3. Analysts blame Apple instead of apologizing for being completely wrong with their predictions.

    4. Apple buys back AAPL at bargain-basement prices.

  • Reply 135 of 301
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    rogifan wrote: »
    Bring back Forstall to do what??

    Kick Cook in the bollocks.
  • Reply 136 of 301
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,022member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    That's bollocks too. Pair for the course for modern Apple Insider. Apple has a technology - 2 Oses old - called auto layout which does what android does. It's not that easy but its there. With iOS 7 and text buttons increasing screen sizes will take no work because the art won't need refactoring. Devs have far more to worry about than screen sizes.

    Darned right they don't. Apple is doing its best to protect developers from such garbage. And that's why a large screen iPhone won't happen until iOS 7 has matured.

  • Reply 137 of 301
    Originally Posted by ElFig2012 View Post

    now you see the reality.

     

    I always saw the reality. You don't seem to.

     

    There is not enough price space between 5C and 5S


     

    Except there is.

     

    This is bordering on ridicoclous ! and yes, we are talking plastic ....whatever the 'geniuses' at Apple may call it.


     

    Magical. Idiots pay the same or more for plastic Android phones. How wrong can you possibly be?

     

    What use is for instance the 64bit CPU for us end users? all we care about is speed and longer battery life...


     

    Hmm. I've quoted two sentences together. I wonder… if those sentences might directly relate. Nah.

     

    only improvement there is that the 5S has longer standby time, wow...hold the press,big advantage...


     

    Just shut up, okay? When you feel like not lying anymore, feel free to post again.

     

    Before you react, I'm a devoted Apple fan with lots of Apple material


     

    NO. ONE. GIVES. A. FLYING. FRICK.

     

    This is not a list of what TO do.

  • Reply 138 of 301
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    asdasd wrote: »
    Munster was talking about a low end device starting 15% margins leading to MORE REVENUE and higher EPS. And bigger market share. Which is what. all sane investors care about. The obsession with margin is the doltish nonsense and baboonery you get only here. Christ you probably think they should sell 29 gold plated iPhones a year at 98.98% margins and forget the middle classes.

    No, the 'obsession' with margin is what makes companies great. First, the prices being thrown around would mean no margin at all for Apple - which means that they'd lose billions after you factor in overheads. Second, even a minor drop in their margin has affected the stock price in the past. A big drop in margin could be disastrous. Finally, no one has ever established the extra volume that Apple would allegedly receive. Just what is the price elasticity? And how many iPhone 5S customers would choose the 5C at $349 but not at $549, reducing margins even further. It comes down to margin vs overhead vs volume. No one has yet shown any scenario which is better for Apple - all we have is "cut the price and you'll do better" drivel with absolutely no evidence to back them up.

    Given the choice between letting Apple make the decisions and some brain dead analyst who has never managed a product introduction in his life, the decision is easy. And when it comes to AI know-it-alls like you, the decision is even easier. Go back to your Android forum.
    asdasd wrote: »
    Bull. Munster understands mobile demand. You don't. .

    Do you really think that Munster knows more about mobile demand than Apple? How many multibillion dollar products has he launched?
  • Reply 139 of 301
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    asdasd wrote: »
    Kick Cook in the bollocks.
    That was a serious question.
  • Reply 140 of 301
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    gwmac wrote: »
    This pricing seems very shortsighted. They seem to want to maintain their extremely high profit margins at the cost of losing market share and customers. I didn't agree with some idiot analysts that suggested it should sell around $300 but I do think they could have still made a very hefty profit at $459 unlocked. There is a big middle ground between $300 and $549. That is not cheap by any means but would at least have been more attainable to tens of millions more consumers than the $549 here in the U.S. or the $733 price it will be sold at unlocked in China. They made absolutely no concession in pricing and just repeated the previous pricing model and stuck last years phone in a plastic shell. As a stockholder I really hope I am proven wrong and it sells beyond the wildest expectations in BRIC type countries and in the 1st world as well but I just don't see that many Chinese paying $733 for this iPhone. The ones on China Mobile that desperately want an iPhone will now likely just pay a little more to get the 5S instead. People worried that the 5C would cannibalize sales. The reality id it appears the 5S will cannibalize sales from the 5C since they are priced so close.

    But like 2 previous posters said I think this pricing might have been necessary because this is a transition year. next year they will be able to offer the 5C for $449 along with a full sized iPhone model addition. A larger iPhone along with a cheaper one that also offers LTE will allow Apple to grow. The question is whether they waited too late and now so many people are locked into the Android ecosystem if these people can be pulled in or not. Switching ecosystems is not an easy process especially for many games which will not transfer progress for example.
    Totally agree with you. Personally I think they waited about a year or two too late. In the last year of regular travel to China, I've noticed over the last 12 months that the Chinese have lost interest in the iPhone. Sure my data point is observations in public or on the subways, but those are some crowded subways and before the iPhone 5 I saw a ton of iPhones, after the iPhone 5, I see far far fewer. Much more 5"+ screen now. So in order to not loose anymore market share in the East, apple needed a 5"+ iPhone at the iPhone 5. With the 5c, they really missed the Chinese "sweet spot" of $487. Really? $733 is a slap in the face to them.
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