Apple's new M7 motion coprocessor to empower new breed of fitness apps

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  • Reply 21 of 41

    I agree with other comments about the possibilities of this technology.  Do we know whether there is anything NEW in the M7?  Any new capability that isn't there in the iPhone 5?

     

    Sounds like only thing enhancement is increased battery life (M7 runs in the background and the A7 can go to super low power state).

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  • Reply 22 of 41
    Apple has always been very clever with battery-saving optimizations. (Kind of the opposite of Samsung.)

    Today, out of nowhere, someone sent me a link to this article and asked me about it, probably because I used to work at a sensor company ages ago. I admit I am curious about it, too, because Apple doesn't usually go into this level of detail about how they manage their tricks. They must really think they've got something here.

    Does anyone know if the technology is homegrown, or if they bought it from some company like the one mentioned above? It seems like the kind of thing that should already be ubiquitous, but I guess someone actually has to be the first to think of it ...
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  • Reply 23 of 41
    It's too bad that every feature Apple adds to the iPhone is seen as useless by Wall Street and the smartphone industry. Apple never seems to add the features everyone is expecting. Every iPhone for the past few years has been seen as a huge disappointment. One would think that will all of Apple's money, they'd be able to do better so that the big money would be impressed.
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  • Reply 24 of 41
    I am a finance guy, and I would describe the Wall Street reaction to this as comical. (Bear in mind that the stock-price drop today was mostly because of the 5c pricing, and to a much lesser extent because the 5s didn't come with a bigger screen.)

    The biggest problem is not that the 5s isn't a terrific phone, it's that they no longer have Steve Jobs telling the world how insanely great every new feature is. I mean, he would have been all over this M7, and by the time he was done talking, every Android owner would be blaming all their battery problems on the lack of an M7.
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  • Reply 25 of 41
    It's only a failure when Apple does it.
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  • Reply 26 of 41

    The M7 in the iPhone is a trial version of the iWatch, in my opinion. This because:

     

    1. this processor does not contain any sensors in itself. It just gathers data from the available sensors even when the device is in sleep mode.

    2. this is basically the only processor a smart watch needs, aside of the sensors itself and a small CPU/GPU to power the tiny screen.

    3. the M7 begs to be used with an array of sensors, not only the gyroscope. Think: Heart rate, blood sugar, GPS data, and so on.

     

     

    So, all in all, I think the M7 is the most interesting processor Apple put in the iPhone. Because it paves the way for the iWatch "sooner" rather than later. It allows, with 64bit code (if what programmers say is true) to save CPU cycles and hence operate a smart watch with little battery use, which can gather sensor information 24/7, and make the Samsung attempt pale in comparison.

     

    Just my two cents.

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  • Reply 27 of 41
    There's one thing that struck me more than everything else. Steve Jobs was so much a product guy. Look at today's presentation. How much time did the people on stage spend with the actual product in their hands? ZERO! It was all about "product videos" accurately shot and staged. But not "hands on time". And it has been like this for a while, actually right after Jobs.


    I still remember Steve Jobs sitting on a couch with the iPad in his hands. THAT IS HOW YOU PRESENT A PRODUCT. There's no point in a keynote if you show off a video, talk about features with a presentation and don't spend any amount of time with the product in your hand using it!

    People want to see what is means for them as human beings, want to identify themselves. And no "corporate motivational video" will convey such a message.
    Steve used to hold a product in his hand, drool (as hegeman pointed out perfectly) over the features, play with the product in his hands (remember the Air? The picture of Steve holding the computer on the palm of his hand is still the most used to talk about it), and only after all that he would show a video to "sum it up".
    Now we have wonderful products, presented in an aseptic fashion, with no human bond or touch.

    Take out an iPhone 5C in an color, SCRATCH IT WITH KEYS and show it to the audience! That's memorable. That makes headlines. Let the iPhone 5C fall on concrete and pick it up. THAT SHOWS it's DURABLE.

    Today's Apple management is too afraid of failure and unforeseen to actually use a product. The most "hands on time" with the iPhone was done by the developers of a game who played it on stage! That's not the way to create a bond, to create a "wow" effect.

    Nope. The products are amazing, but the new team of leaders is too shy to step forward and show the world how amazing apple still is. By touching the product, using it, even if it crashes and make a joke about it.

    "our customers will be delighted".

    I FEARED THE DAY SOMEONE WOULD SAY THAT AT APPLE. And that day has come.

    Get your "act" (really, in the sense of "acting") together. RIGHT AWAY.

    "OUR CUSTOMERS"? WTF!!!! What about "we design products we want to use???"

    "we are delighted, we like, I was surprised, we did some amazing stuff". See? It's not that hard. Maybe Apple should hire me.... Only for the presentation part though, as I am sure I could never come up with the amazing stuff they do. But I could come up with a much better presentation.

    I am mainly critizinig the words of the CEO, not the ones from the engineers. They seem to be proud of what they do and speak about it in these terms. But the CEO should convey the OVERALL VALUE. Let the geeks speak to the geeks. But then show the crossing between technology and the liberal arts. Take a phone call to show the new ringtones. TAKE A PICTURE OF THE AUDIENCE (half dark setting, perfect to show the new "luminosity" feature) AND SHOW IT TO THEM LIVE. Instead of showing an array of pictures taken by some Magnum agency member in perfect settings.
    Let them WOW!!!


    Ah... Tiny details that make the whole difference between a product and "something i can't live without".
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  • Reply 28 of 41
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,846member

    I'm a hardware guy but have some questions which for want of time I should research myself. Perhaps those who actually know the answers could fill me in, thanks:

     

    • Is the A7 the first 64 bit processor to go into a phone? Does every non-serial component sit on a 64 bit bus?

    • Are the new imaging capabilities such as burst mode, high fidelity imaging and ultra-high speed imaging (120 fps) leveraged directly of the power of the 64 bit processor. That is, have similar features been implemented in 32 bit systems?

    • Does the display parallax effect rely heavily on the animation (or other) APIs in iOS? Would it be practical to implement on a system lacking iOS' refinement in this respect?

    • Does any other manufacturer employ an M7-like coprocessor? The idea of chips dedicated to managing external functionality isn't new but this implementation promises so much.

    • Does the iPhone have a temperature transducer (thermistor) available to be interrogated? A barometric (pressure) transducer? (Haven't seen apps that use such.)

    • Does the M7 store finely time-resolved data or only aggregates? For example, does it know the path I've taken from one location to another?

    • Other obvious questions that I didn't ask. :\

     

    All the best.

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  • Reply 29 of 41
    mauszmausz Posts: 243member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

     

    I'm a hardware guy but have some questions which for want of time I should research myself. Perhaps those who actually know the answers could fill me in, thanks:

     

    1 • Is the A7 the first 64 bit processor to go into a phone? Does every non-serial component sit on a 64 bit bus?

    2 • Are the new imaging capabilities such as burst mode, high fidelity imaging and ultra-high speed imaging (120 fps) leveraged directly of the power of the 64 bit processor. That is, have similar features been implemented in 32 bit systems?

    3 • Does the display parallax effect rely heavily on the animation (or other) APIs in iOS? Would it be practical to implement on a system lacking iOS' refinement in this respect?

    4 • Does any other manufacturer employ an M7-like coprocessor? The idea of chips dedicated to managing external functionality isn't new but this implementation promises so much.

    5 • Does the iPhone have a temperature transducer (thermistor) available to be interrogated? A barometric (pressure) transducer? (Haven't seen apps that use such.)

    6 • Does the M7 store finely time-resolved data or only aggregates? For example, does it know the path I've taken from one location to another?

    7 • Other obvious questions that I didn't ask. :\

     

    All the best.


    1) There are some phones with the Intel Z2420 chip inside, which from my information is also 64 bit, so no...

    2) Both S4 and HTC One have burst mode and 120fps (albeit not in 720p)

    3) Andoid has featured interactive wallpapers using this parallax effect for many years. Note, this only works on the homescreen, so no "deep" OS integration

    4) see above, motorola android phones have a dedicated sensor coprocessor. Qualcomm also employs a 'sensor core', do not know if it's comparable.

    5,6,7) for others to answer

     

    Still, I'm impressed with the progress Apple has made with its own processor. It will certainly start rumors again of an ARM OSX version and Apple dropping Intel for it's MacBook Air range...

     

    It will also be interesting to see what Intel can do with its new Bay Trail chips, which are significantly faster than any ARM offering, and seem to have solved the power usage problem. The giant may be awaken ;)

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  • Reply 30 of 41
    nagromme wrote: »
    This could make those "sleep cycle alarm" apps efficient enough to not necessarily need a power connection all night long.

    It could also help GPS apps (including weather alerts and geofences), making the even lower-power than Location Services already is, by waking them up to check for an updated location only if movement has been sensed. After all, you can't change coordinates without also jostling your phone.

    I'm not sure what's left to put in a watch!

    How about putting the M7 in the iWatch so it communicates with the iPhone 5c (since it doesn't have a M7) thus making the 5c the mate to the iWatch...not the 5s... Wouldn't that turn the whole idea of the 5c being the cheap phone on its head?!!

    If you paid attention to what was said when introducing the successor to the iPhone 5, you will see they didn't make any claim of the 5c being a "lower cost" device. Here's the transcript:

    "In the past, when we introduced a new iPhone, we lowered the price of the old iphone."
    "This year, we're not going to do that."
    "This year, we're going to replace the iPhone 5."
    "With not one, but two new designs."

    BOTH iPhones replace the iPhone 5...!!!
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  • Reply 31 of 41
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

     

    Am I the only one who thought "smart watch" when Phil was talking about the use of fitness apps on the M7 chip?


     

    No you're not. The M7 along with Touch ID tome were the things that stood out the most, hardware wise.

    This, despite the numerous Internet warriors , claiming that Apple does not innovate any longer.

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  • Reply 32 of 41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

     

    So, all in all, I think the M7 is the most interesting processor Apple put in the iPhone. Because it paves the way for the iWatch "sooner" rather than later. It allows, with 64bit code (if what programmers say is true) to save CPU cycles and hence operate a smart watch with little battery use, which can gather sensor information 24/7, and make the Samsung attempt pale in comparison.

     

    Just my two cents.


     

    Finally, someone who gets it. That's more than I can say about Samsung, who spent years trying to convince us that bigger is better, with their ridiculously sized phablets, to only now shrink, the Note III's screen down to 2" on their Gear.

     

    Just your 2 cents? I disagree. Two cents, is what Samsung's idea of a smart watch, is worth. I bet that your idea and definitely Jony Ive's, are worth far more than that.

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  • Reply 33 of 41
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    nagromme wrote: »
    I'm not sure what's left to put in a watch!
    A display and a battery. And maybe the smallest, weakest, power efficient processor needed to just simply display information. The fact that the phone is now bearing the weight of all the lifting is incredible if apple wanted to release a watch. The gyroscope, accelerometer, processor, etc are inside all the current watches like pebble- obviously draining battery life. The batter on an iWatch would last forever and not being thick in the slightest.
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  • Reply 34 of 41
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    But that's the beauty of this! The iWatch could be a much simpler device... since the phone would have most of the high-end hardware and sensors.

    The downside is that it would only work with iPhones that have the M7 chip... only the iPhone 5S for now.

    I'm sure we'll be seeing many smartwatches from other manufacturers who try to shove everything including the kitchen sink into the watch... making it extra big and bulky.

    I can't imagine Apple doing that. If the iWatch is truly an accessory to the iPhone... it would make more sense to put most of the hardware in the phone.

    Or at least that's how I see it :)

    That makes a lot of sense. However, If they make it dependent on a 5S and beyond they would piss off a lot of users though. Perhaps certain features would be but not all. Good way of selling iPhone users up too I guess. Having said that I can't see the iWatch just being aimed at joggers. I suspect there has to be a plethora of things it will do that will appeal to a far greater, and maybe currently non watch wearing folks.

    Of course Wall Street will hate Apple's iWatch unless it can teleport the wearer across a Continent. Even then they would moan if it were limited to a single land mass at a time. That said, if it could teleport trans-globally they'd bitch it wasn't interstellar.
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  • Reply 35 of 41
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    thedba wrote: »
    Finally, someone who gets it. That's more than I can say about Samsung, who spent years trying to convince us that bigger is better, with their ridiculously sized phablets, to only now shrink, the Note III's screen down to 2" on their Gear.

    Just your 2 cents? I disagree. Two cents, is what Samsung's idea of a smart watch, is worth. I bet that your idea and definitely Jony Ive's, are worth far more than that.

    ... I got my wife's two year old color iPod nano with its wrist band out of a draw this morning for the first time in months ... you know, it sure seems a hell of lot like the new Scamsung Smart Watch!
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  • Reply 36 of 41
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

     

    I'm a hardware guy but have some questions which for want of time I should research myself. Perhaps those who actually know the answers could fill me in, thanks:

     

    • Is the A7 the first 64 bit processor to go into a phone? Does every non-serial component sit on a 64 bit bus?

    • Are the new imaging capabilities such as burst mode, high fidelity imaging and ultra-high speed imaging (120 fps) leveraged directly of the power of the 64 bit processor. That is, have similar features been implemented in 32 bit systems?

    • Does the display parallax effect rely heavily on the animation (or other) APIs in iOS? Would it be practical to implement on a system lacking iOS' refinement in this respect?

    • Does any other manufacturer employ an M7-like coprocessor? The idea of chips dedicated to managing external functionality isn't new but this implementation promises so much.

    • Does the iPhone have a temperature transducer (thermistor) available to be interrogated? A barometric (pressure) transducer? (Haven't seen apps that use such.)

    • Does the M7 store finely time-resolved data or only aggregates? For example, does it know the path I've taken from one location to another?

    • Other obvious questions that I didn't ask. :\

     

    All the best.


     

    You ask some interesting questions. Seems like you might be a designer. As far as your question on other M7-like co-processors on the market, in addition to the Qualcomm and Motorola suggestions, you should check out the 'SENtral' Sensor Fusion co-processor I found at PNI Sensor Corporation. They claim SENtral requires only 1/100th of the power of a Cortex M0, so the M7 could be a compelling benifit for battery life, possibly enabling future applications that previously were not possible.

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  • Reply 37 of 41
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,846member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SensorExpert View Post

     

     

    You ask some interesting questions. Seems like you might be a designer. As far as your question on other M7-like co-processors on the market, in addition to the Qualcomm and Motorola suggestions, you should check out the 'SENtral' Sensor Fusion co-processor I found at PNI Sensor Corporation. They claim SENtral requires only 1/100th of the power of a Cortex M0, so the M7 could be a compelling benifit for battery life, possibly enabling future applications that previously were not possible.


     

    Thank you for your kind thoughts and the information you passed along. You might recall from many years ago, the advent of supervisory chips that were designed to perform basic housekeeping functions at very low power. The M7 is a modern and vastly expanded implementation and perhaps, all that the iWatch will require (perhaps in concert with an iPhone). Did you know too that MEMs devices such as accelerometers and (later), gyroscopes, have been around for about 15 years? Apple implements functionality so elegantly not necessarily by employing bleeding edge technology but by the pursuit of excellence, although the fingerprint sensor in this case is probably an example of both.

     

    All the best.

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  • Reply 38 of 41
    That makes a lot of sense. However, If they make it dependent on a 5S and beyond they would piss off a lot of users though. Perhaps certain features would be but not all. Good way of selling iPhone users up too I guess. Having said that I can't see the iWatch just being aimed at joggers. I suspect there has to be a plethora of things it will do that will appeal to a far greater, and maybe currently non watch wearing folks.

    Of course Wall Street will hate Apple's iWatch unless it can teleport the wearer across a Continent. Even then they would moan if it were limited to a single land mass at a time. That said, if it could teleport trans-globally they'd bitch it wasn't interstellar.

    I've heard some speculation that the purported "iWatch" would be something like an amped up Nike FuelBand with a small display for phone notifications. Think Nike FuelBand + Pebble watch

    This would be in stark contrast to Samsung shoving the entire guts of a powerful smartphone into a watch... resulting in one-day battery life :no:

    There's definitely a couple of ways Apple could go with this. I'm genuinely curious to see what they come up with :)
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  • Reply 39 of 41
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,846member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    That makes a lot of sense. However, If they make it dependent on a 5S and beyond they would piss off a lot of users though...

     

    With the release of the 5C and the young demographic to whom it would be attractive, tying any future biometric device or service only to the 5S would be out of the question, surely.

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  • Reply 40 of 41

    To clarify a little, the A7 chip is the first 64 bit ARM (to my knowledge). 

     

    Other motion coprocessor (I think the only other one)...It is used in most other devices.

     

    Atmel

    maXFusion™ technology, integrated into our mXF1664S and mXF1188S devices, combines data from multiple sensors—accelerometer, gyroscope and magnetometer—to deliver accurate, real-time, motion-related information. This technology works with Windows 8- and Android-based mobile products, providing sophisticated motion detection capabilities that complement the advanced touch functions enabled by our controllers.

     

    Nevertheless, there is not enough information yet to compare differences or similarities between the two. I can only say that in this realm there have been advances previously. 

     

    For the last questions, we don't know yet about whether or not it includes them yet. 

     

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