When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.
Move to the UK then
Our country might be slowly falling apart but we have pretty decent phone tarrifs. I always buy my phones sim free and am currently paying £9.99/month (about $15) for a sim-only deal with Three for 200 mins talktime, 3000 texts and unlimited data. They're currently rolling out their LTE network which will be unlimited as well for no extra cost. That's a rolling monthly contract as well, so if a different carrier can offer me a better deal, I can switch by giving 30 days notice.
The phone is NOT free. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. And spare me the quips, "Hey, but it DOES mean I don't have to pay anything EXTRA." Sorry, pal, but that "extra" you speak of, even if $850, is pittance compared to the carrier fees that you will rack up over the next few years.
It depends.
If the surcharge ends when you complete the contract, then your argument would be correct. In the U.S., that's not how it works.
Let's take two people:
Person A gets an iPhone 4S ('free' with contract) and pays $80 per month. They keep the phone 4 years.
Person B gets an iPhone 4S ('free' with contract) and pays $80 per month. In 2 years, they upgrade to whatever phone is 'free with contract' at that time and keep it 2 more years.
Both people pay the same total amount, but the second person truly does get a free phone (and can sell their 4S for a few hundred dollars or give it to the kids to use on Straighttalk or Net10.
On what carrier and what country? The carriers in the US require a data plan for smartphones.
They require a data plan for iPhones but you can get some of the Android phones without a data... oh... wait... sorry, you're right... you said smartphones. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
I am curious to know whether Apple let Docomo to preunstall apps or to rebrand it somehow.
I wouldn't want that as that would be a sign of Apple's weakness.
Any news on this topic?
If in fact Apple did give a concession it is in no way, shape, or form a sign of weakness. A NTT docomo subscriber is a lot more NTT's customer than they are Apple's, and NTT has worked hard to give their customers a good experience so I don't think that they wanting to offer all of their customers the same experience like Apple does an unreasonable request.
The phone is NOT free. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. And spare me the quips, "Hey, but it DOES mean I don't have to pay anything EXTRA." Sorry, pal, but that "extra" you speak of, even if $850, is pittance compared to the carrier fees that you will rack up over the next few years.
SoftBank charges about $70 a month in base fees to use an iPhone in Japan. 70 x 12 = $840 annually, or $4200 over 5 years. Yes, you need to think long term because it's not like you are only going to use your iOS phone for only 2 years and then quit! You're hooked forever, unless you go back to Stupid Phones. But who does that?
It's a sad fact that the media continues to refuse to bash the carriers for exorbitant monthly fees while at the same time Apple gets bashed for not coming out with a cheap enough phone. It's totally stupid and outrageous. Almost as outrageous as the fact that smartphone users themselves haven't yet revolted against the wireless carriers on this issue. Outrageous!
(I'm a Mac lover since 1984 and WiFi iPad lover since the iPad3, but I refuse to get an iPhone or any smartphone due to the wireless carrier fees. When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.)
Thanks a million. People keep forgetting this, and it needs to be shouted from the rooftops. This "requires a data plan" BS needs to be taken care of.
I refuse to get an iPhone due to the carrier fees, myself. I've no problem buying an iPhone outright, but I can't afford the plan. Can't be justified by my potential use case.
Originally Posted by Ireland
Why not just but an unlocked iPhone then? That's what I do. I use the web on wifi only and everywhere I travel too has wifi.
How does that make it a phone? Doesn't really help him. You want him to basically do what I've done for the past 6 years. It has worked for me, and I enjoy it, but only because it's all I've ever known a smartphone to be.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
That's not gonna happen. Operating, building, and maintaining a cellular network takes a huge capital expenditure, and the carriers are also in the business of making a profit.
Of course it will. Don't kid yourself. It will only not happen if people let it not happen. Are you claiming that technology doesn't get cheaper? Is that what you're saying? In that case, my magical ten megabit Internet connection should be costing me thousands of dollars a month since it's so fast compared to the 2400 baud my neighbors have. Ah, wait, it's not 1993 anymore. Dial up doesn't cost $39 a month.
The fact that we not only pay these prices but LET THE CARRIERS COLLUDE TO RAISE PRICES SIMULTANEOUSLY is a failing on our part.
Why not just but an unlocked iPhone then? That's what I do. I use the web on wifi only and everywhere I travel too has wifi.
Because buying an unlocked phone is a waste of money in some cases.
For example, if you choose AT&T, the price is the same whether you use their subsidized phone or bring your own. So if you buy an unlocked phone and use it on the AT&T network, you're throwing away hundreds of dollars. The same is true of some of the other majors, as well.
Buying an unlocked phone and using it on a pay-as-you-go carrier is the least expensive route, but it doesn't work for everyone.
Of course it will. Don't kid yourself. It will only not happen if people let it not happen. Are you claiming that technology doesn't get cheaper? Is that what you're saying? In that case, my magical ten megabit Internet connection should be costing me thousands of dollars a month since it's so fast compared to the 2400 baud my neighbors have. Ah, wait, it's not 1993 anymore. Dial up doesn't cost $39 a month.
The fact that we not only pay these prices but LET THE CARRIERS COLLUDE TO RAISE PRICES SIMULTANEOUSLY is a failing on our part.
It doesn't get cheaper just like the iPhone released each year doesn’t get cheaper. The network is constantly evolving and being constantly upgraded to handle demand and obsolescence. I work for a telecom and I am witnessing first hand equipment that was installed 5-10 years ago and cost 10s of millions of dollars being replaced by even more expensive equipment.
It doesn't get cheaper just like the iPhone released each year doesn’t get cheaper.
No, that's not a comparison in any respect, thanks. In fact, you continue to prove me right. The iPhone DOES get cheaper every year. You can get an iPhone 4S for $100 less than a year ago. It's the same product… cheaper.
Just like cellular telephony is the same product… not cheaper.
I work for a telecom and I am witnessing first hand equipment that was installed 5-10 years ago and cost 10s of millions of dollars being replaced by even more expensive equipment.
Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the corruption at hand. Everything you say continues to prove me right.
No, that's not a comparison in any respect, thanks. In fact, you continue to prove me right. The iPhone DOES get cheaper every year. You can get an iPhone 4S for $100 less than a year ago. It's the same product… cheaper.
Just like cellular telephony is the same product… not cheaper.
Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the corruption at hand. Everything you say continues to prove me right.
What part of 'released every year' was too hard for you to understand?
Obsolescence is not corruption. I so enjoy how you keep proving how clueless you are. You sound exactly like those that ask why can't Apple make a cheap phone is Samsung can do it.
I wonder if any of the people who are screaming about how the 5C shows Apple is doomed remember that link about misunderstanding the Japanese market. I seem to recall the whole nation would shun the phone because it doesn't have NFC and a giant screen. Oh and it would never sell without colors. Just like how no one would buy an iPhone because of the price, or the 3 because of the plastic back, or the G because it wasn't a real upgrade, or the 4 because it had too much glass or the 4S because it wasn't a real upgrade and it didn't have a 6 inch screen and oh yeah antenna gate, and nobody would buy the 5 because the screen was bigger but not enough, and....
Funny how despite it being obviously the worst phone ever made based on the site trolls posts, they just keep outselling everything.
What part of 'released every year' was too hard for you to understand?
The part where it's irrelevant to the topic.
Obsolescence is not corruption. I so enjoy how you keep proving how clueless you are. You sound exactly like those that ask why can't Apple make a cheap phone is Samsung can do it.
So all these landline ISPs who update their hardware in the same timeframe as you guys; they're backed by magical leprechauns who give them all the gold they could ever want, letting them continuously lower prices while providing faster services. But you, no, you in the telecoms, you don't have those leprechauns; you have to keep raising them and cutting off services to people while doing the same thing. First texting was five cents, then ten, now twenty per text. It costs you absolutely nothing to send them beyond the electricity powering the stations at rest, since they go on the always-on wavelength. Then Internet was unlimited, now 2GB, now throttled, and costing more. Don't give me that BS.
So all these landline ISPs who update their hardware in the same timeframe as you guys; they're backed by magical leprechauns who give them all the gold they could ever want, letting them continuously lower prices while providing faster services. But you, no, you in the telecoms, you don't have those leprechauns; you have to keep raising them and cutting off services to people while doing the same thing. First texting was five cents, then ten, now twenty per text. It costs you absolutely nothing to send them beyond the electricity powering the stations at rest, since they go on the always-on wavelength. Then Internet was unlimited, now 2GB, now throttled, and costing more. Don't give me that BS.
And how did you expect the telecoms to recover the lost revenue when subscribers no longer purchased apps from them? They also have a profit margin to maintain and if they lose revenue on one service they'll get it from another. I mean really is Apple the only company allowed to make money?
I am curious to know whether Apple let Docomo to preunstall apps or to rebrand it somehow.
I wouldn't want that as that would be a sign of Apple's weakness.
Any news on this topic?
I haven't heard any news but there is exactly 0% chance of either of those things happening.
Okay, honestly, did anyone ever do that, ever, anyway? That can't have been their primary source of revenue.
Just as texts aren't a primary source of income. Here's a novel idea, you want a cheap plan? Then get a feature phone. Don't buy a sports car and then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
The phone is NOT free. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. And spare me the quips, "Hey, but it DOES mean I don't have to pay anything EXTRA." Sorry, pal, but that "extra" you speak of, even if $850, is pittance compared to the carrier fees that you will rack up over the next few years.
SoftBank charges about $70 a month in base fees to use an iPhone in Japan. 70 x 12 = $840 annually, or $4200 over 5 years. Yes, you need to think long term because it's not like you are only going to use your iOS phone for only 2 years and then quit! You're hooked forever, unless you go back to Stupid Phones. But who does that?
It's a sad fact that the media continues to refuse to bash the carriers for exorbitant monthly fees while at the same time Apple gets bashed for not coming out with a cheap enough phone. It's totally stupid and outrageous. Almost as outrageous as the fact that smartphone users themselves haven't yet revolted against the wireless carriers on this issue. Outrageous!
(I'm a Mac lover since 1984 and WiFi iPad lover since the iPad3, but I refuse to get an iPhone or any smartphone due to the wireless carrier fees. When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.)
Damn, I wish the car dealer had told me about the cost of running my car before I bought it.
Money going to a carrier that doesn't contribute to a subsidy is dead money.
Paying to top up a prepaid for two years and ending up with nothing just doesn't make sense.
Carrier fees used to be exorbitant back in the nineties, the value you get today for the same money is incredible.
Comments
When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.
Move to the UK then
Our country might be slowly falling apart but we have pretty decent phone tarrifs. I always buy my phones sim free and am currently paying £9.99/month (about $15) for a sim-only deal with Three for 200 mins talktime, 3000 texts and unlimited data. They're currently rolling out their LTE network which will be unlimited as well for no extra cost. That's a rolling monthly contract as well, so if a different carrier can offer me a better deal, I can switch by giving 30 days notice.
It depends.
If the surcharge ends when you complete the contract, then your argument would be correct. In the U.S., that's not how it works.
Let's take two people:
Person A gets an iPhone 4S ('free' with contract) and pays $80 per month. They keep the phone 4 years.
Person B gets an iPhone 4S ('free' with contract) and pays $80 per month. In 2 years, they upgrade to whatever phone is 'free with contract' at that time and keep it 2 more years.
Both people pay the same total amount, but the second person truly does get a free phone (and can sell their 4S for a few hundred dollars or give it to the kids to use on Straighttalk or Net10.
On what carrier and what country? The carriers in the US require a data plan for smartphones.
If in fact Apple did give a concession it is in no way, shape, or form a sign of weakness. A NTT docomo subscriber is a lot more NTT's customer than they are Apple's, and NTT has worked hard to give their customers a good experience so I don't think that they wanting to offer all of their customers the same experience like Apple does an unreasonable request.
SoftBank charges about $70 a month in base fees to use an iPhone in Japan. 70 x 12 = $840 annually, or $4200 over 5 years. Yes, you need to think long term because it's not like you are only going to use your iOS phone for only 2 years and then quit! You're hooked forever, unless you go back to Stupid Phones. But who does that?
It's a sad fact that the media continues to refuse to bash the carriers for exorbitant monthly fees while at the same time Apple gets bashed for not coming out with a cheap enough phone. It's totally stupid and outrageous. Almost as outrageous as the fact that smartphone users themselves haven't yet revolted against the wireless carriers on this issue. Outrageous!
(I'm a Mac lover since 1984 and WiFi iPad lover since the iPad3, but I refuse to get an iPhone or any smartphone due to the wireless carrier fees. When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.)
Thanks a million. People keep forgetting this, and it needs to be shouted from the rooftops. This "requires a data plan" BS needs to be taken care of.
I refuse to get an iPhone due to the carrier fees, myself. I've no problem buying an iPhone outright, but I can't afford the plan. Can't be justified by my potential use case.
Why not just but an unlocked iPhone then? That's what I do. I use the web on wifi only and everywhere I travel too has wifi.
How does that make it a phone? Doesn't really help him. You want him to basically do what I've done for the past 6 years. It has worked for me, and I enjoy it, but only because it's all I've ever known a smartphone to be.
That's not gonna happen. Operating, building, and maintaining a cellular network takes a huge capital expenditure, and the carriers are also in the business of making a profit.
Of course it will. Don't kid yourself. It will only not happen if people let it not happen. Are you claiming that technology doesn't get cheaper? Is that what you're saying? In that case, my magical ten megabit Internet connection should be costing me thousands of dollars a month since it's so fast compared to the 2400 baud my neighbors have. Ah, wait, it's not 1993 anymore. Dial up doesn't cost $39 a month.
The fact that we not only pay these prices but LET THE CARRIERS COLLUDE TO RAISE PRICES SIMULTANEOUSLY is a failing on our part.
Because buying an unlocked phone is a waste of money in some cases.
For example, if you choose AT&T, the price is the same whether you use their subsidized phone or bring your own. So if you buy an unlocked phone and use it on the AT&T network, you're throwing away hundreds of dollars. The same is true of some of the other majors, as well.
Buying an unlocked phone and using it on a pay-as-you-go carrier is the least expensive route, but it doesn't work for everyone.
Classic WWII.
It doesn't get cheaper just like the iPhone released each year doesn’t get cheaper. The network is constantly evolving and being constantly upgraded to handle demand and obsolescence. I work for a telecom and I am witnessing first hand equipment that was installed 5-10 years ago and cost 10s of millions of dollars being replaced by even more expensive equipment.
No, that's not a comparison in any respect, thanks. In fact, you continue to prove me right. The iPhone DOES get cheaper every year. You can get an iPhone 4S for $100 less than a year ago. It's the same product… cheaper.
Just like cellular telephony is the same product… not cheaper.
Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the corruption at hand. Everything you say continues to prove me right.
What part of 'released every year' was too hard for you to understand?
Obsolescence is not corruption. I so enjoy how you keep proving how clueless you are. You sound exactly like those that ask why can't Apple make a cheap phone is Samsung can do it.
Funny how despite it being obviously the worst phone ever made based on the site trolls posts, they just keep outselling everything.
The part where it's irrelevant to the topic.
So all these landline ISPs who update their hardware in the same timeframe as you guys; they're backed by magical leprechauns who give them all the gold they could ever want, letting them continuously lower prices while providing faster services. But you, no, you in the telecoms, you don't have those leprechauns; you have to keep raising them and cutting off services to people while doing the same thing. First texting was five cents, then ten, now twenty per text. It costs you absolutely nothing to send them beyond the electricity powering the stations at rest, since they go on the always-on wavelength. Then Internet was unlimited, now 2GB, now throttled, and costing more. Don't give me that BS.
And how did you expect the telecoms to recover the lost revenue when subscribers no longer purchased apps from them? They also have a profit margin to maintain and if they lose revenue on one service they'll get it from another. I mean really is Apple the only company allowed to make money?
Okay, honestly, did anyone ever do that, ever, anyway? That can't have been their primary source of revenue.
I haven't heard any news but there is exactly 0% chance of either of those things happening.
Just as texts aren't a primary source of income. Here's a novel idea, you want a cheap plan? Then get a feature phone. Don't buy a sports car and then complain about the price of premium gasoline.
Would you be going against an NDA to disclose a breakdown of your company's profits, then? Or is that stuff you're even privy to?
Ah, car analogies: the white bread of the technology world. Bland and disgusting.
If I buy a high-end car, I'm not wasting money on fossil fuel.
Buy a iPhone first then we can discuss buying a car.
iPhone. Big in Japan.
Now, if only Apple could get US cell carriers into an iPhone-subsidy-war.
Just think. We could save maybe $100 over our two year contracts.
That's roughly 4 percent of our iPhone TCO! Such a deal.
The phone is NOT free. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. And spare me the quips, "Hey, but it DOES mean I don't have to pay anything EXTRA." Sorry, pal, but that "extra" you speak of, even if $850, is pittance compared to the carrier fees that you will rack up over the next few years.
SoftBank charges about $70 a month in base fees to use an iPhone in Japan. 70 x 12 = $840 annually, or $4200 over 5 years. Yes, you need to think long term because it's not like you are only going to use your iOS phone for only 2 years and then quit! You're hooked forever, unless you go back to Stupid Phones. But who does that?
It's a sad fact that the media continues to refuse to bash the carriers for exorbitant monthly fees while at the same time Apple gets bashed for not coming out with a cheap enough phone. It's totally stupid and outrageous. Almost as outrageous as the fact that smartphone users themselves haven't yet revolted against the wireless carriers on this issue. Outrageous!
(I'm a Mac lover since 1984 and WiFi iPad lover since the iPad3, but I refuse to get an iPhone or any smartphone due to the wireless carrier fees. When those fees come down to $10 or $15 per month and give me always on internet, then they will have hooked me.)
Damn, I wish the car dealer had told me about the cost of running my car before I bought it.
Money going to a carrier that doesn't contribute to a subsidy is dead money.
Paying to top up a prepaid for two years and ending up with nothing just doesn't make sense.
Carrier fees used to be exorbitant back in the nineties, the value you get today for the same money is incredible.