This line "Outside of backwards land, the Exynos 5 Octa was such an expensive failure that Samsung couldn't handle eating its own dog food within the most competitive market of Apple's home continent." is repeated twice, and paragraph #10 ends with this sentence repeating itself. "Anyone who thinks they know any of this better than Apple is either wrong or wasting their lives if they are not already generating billions of dollars in value with their grand expertise."
Seems to me that if you are going to take the time to write a lengthy information article, you should take a few more minutes to let someone proofread it.
Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business.""Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business" - Korea Times
Sure it's makes a good marketing bullet point, but I wouldn't call it a ploy as I see a real benefit to iPhone going 64-bit that no one around the web seems to be mentioning. While some people gargle on DED's balls as he trys to defend a technology that offers little benefit in its current implementation, I think Apple is busy setting up a base for future products (I believe jungmark hinted at this). Having both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of an OS adds a level of fragmentation and introduces the need for backwards compatibility. Once iOS reaches a point where the benefits of having a 64-bit OS can shine, I'm betting that they won't have to be concerned about offering 32-bit compatibility at that point as the legacy devices will then be 64-bit as well. If this is what Apple is planning then I think it's a really smart move on their part.
Interesting attempt at damage control in the "64-bit is a hoax!" Android camp, but I believe your attempt to characterize the A7 using "nothing now, but 64-bit will be important when Android has it!" explanations is simply wrong.
Among the apps being able to make immediate, noticeable use of the A7's new architecture is Touch ID, encryption and likely also video codecs. Also, even if there weren't ANY apps that went 64-bit, having all of the bundled software on the iPhone running against the modern, optimized new instruction set, with access to new registers and cache, all optimized by Apple's LLMV, will deliver immediate benefits.
You can stir up distractions and ridicule those who do get it, but the fact is that you're missing the truth because you're so indebted to a particular ideology that isn't working. You might as well be rooting for Linux netbooks.
Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business.""Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business" - Korea Times
You're reading the automated forum posting, not the article as it appears on the site. So what you're complaining about is a Forum presentation error, not a proofreading flaw.
If you find actual typos in the article, please report them and they'll be fixed.
Interesting attempt at damage control in the "64-bit is a hoax!" Android camp, but I believe your attempt to characterize the A7 using "nothing now, but 64-bit will be important when Android has it!" explanations is simply wrong.
Among the apps being able to make immediate, noticeable use of the A7's new architecture is Touch ID, encryption and likely also video codecs. Also, even if there weren't ANY apps that went 64-bit, having all of the bundled software on the iPhone running against the modern, optimized new instruction set, with access to new registers and cache, all optimized by Apple's LLMV, will deliver immediate benefits.
You can stir up distractions and ridicule those who do get it, but the fact is that you're missing the truth because you're so indebted to a particular ideology that isn't working. You might as well be rooting for Linux netbooks.
It would appear that your Apple tinted lenses are making you see things in what I posted that aren't really there. Whoever you're quoting, it isn't me.
What's holding Apple back from opening up the Apple TV to the AppStore? Instantly have a library of hundreds of thousands of games, game controller compatibility, console-level graphics with the new A7 processors ... As well as other types of media, consumption, and even productivity apps ...
Um, user input would be the main impediment. It is completely different to, select text, by holding your finger over one spot of text, then dragging to another, where the text is directly under your finger, and doing the same with a remote touchpad to select text on your TV.
It requires a different UI, which the AppleTV has, principally, the concept of a cursor [which is what the highlight around the current selected item is].
Some games probably would work OK with a remote touchpad, but most have to rework their input mechansim for the AppleTV.
And then there is reconfiguring the UI to display in landscape in 720p and 1080p.
Interesting attempt at damage control in the "64-bit is a hoax!" Android camp, but I believe your attempt to characterize the A7 using "nothing now, but 64-bit will be important when Android has it!" explanations is simply wrong.
Among the apps being able to make immediate, noticeable use of the A7's new architecture is Touch ID, encryption and likely also video codecs. Also, even if there weren't ANY apps that went 64-bit, having all of the bundled software on the iPhone running against the modern, optimized new instruction set, with access to new registers and cache, all optimized by Apple's LLMV, will deliver immediate benefits.
You can stir up distractions and ridicule those who do get it, but the fact is that you're missing the truth because you're so indebted to a particular ideology that isn't working. You might as well be rooting for Linux netbooks.
It would appear that your Apple tinted lenses are making you see things in what I posted that aren't really there. Whoever you're quoting, it isn't me.
I am a Mac and iOS developer... Where can I get my hands on one of those Apple LLMVs?
just a few comments. First of all, in practice the need for 64 bit addressing is not just limited to DRAM. People seem to forget that we need enough address space to decode access to peripherals (both on chip and off) and fast VRAM.
Recall what we saw with Windows PCs migration to 64 bit Windows. We had PC shipping with 3GB (not 4GB) while the market waited for Microsoft to get Windows 64 bit SW widely adopted.
Now, look at what Samsung announced earlier this month with Note 3 and the latest 10" tablet. 3GB RAM. While I dislike Samsung, I honestly do think Samsung had plans for 64 bit HW, but was waiting for Android SW stock to catch up. Same problem as we had with Windows PCs. If Google had released 64 bit Android prior (this past summer), I think Samsung would have released 64 HW a few weeks ago and shipping with 4GB RAM instead of being capped with 3GB specs. I think Samsung needs 64 as of today. Anyone who thinks Samsung did not want 64 bit SW support for this year's Note 3 and 10.1 tablet would be ignorant. Did they need it, no. Did they want it, yes.
However, I do think Samsung was surprised that Apple had made the jump to 64bit both in SW and HW so soon because iOS was only using 1GB RAM in prior iOS HW (likely only 2GB of total address space) . I think Samsung and Google thought they had more time to get their 64 SW stack story together before Apple raised the bar.
Samsung miscalculated Apple's timing and their plans for 64bit were no doubt gated by Google's Android timeline; something they do not yet control to the level required to make the switch to complete 64 bit product themselves. No doubt they are more in hurry now to push Google to support 64 bit SW now that Apple has made the switch. Get the whip!
The argument about Qualcomm chips being used in Samsung in North America is uninformed - they are used because Qualcomm has a monopoly on the cellular baseband chips required for several of the carriers in North America, and it is better power to use Qualcomm's all-in-one than to use Qualcomm's baseband only chip with Samsung's Exynos. Several companies have done this, including Samsung's S3, so nothing new to see here.
The point is that if samsung putting out there flagship phone the gs4 don't use the very fastest processor the exynos of there own design, it basically means they have no faith in there own architecture. So no its not uniformed. You would think they would want there most prestigious device to be the fastest and most capable device they sell everywhere. So yes there is a lot new to see here.
edited to be more accurate - I see appleinsider as the opposite Anandtech - good for news and business insights, not so good on technical details. Stick to what you're good at and don't try to throw in tech details you don't really understand.
Judging from your 2 posts here you should go back to anandtech. Since this a stupid sight in your eyes. and if you actually read the article you would see that DED is quoting other people that DO know what there talking about, when talking about technical issues. He even quotes Brian Klug and Anand Lal Shimpi's reactions to the new A7 and they were impressed.
I rarely comment here, but his and some other related articles by AppleInsider require an immediate hats off. Dan this is just an excellent analysis and article and kudos to whoever staff contributions may have also been involved. Thanks again. Just excellent work! I hope you're proud of it, you should be....
The argument about Qualcomm chips being used in Samsung in North America is uninformed - they are used because Qualcomm has a monopoly on the cellular baseband chips required for several of the carriers in North America, and it is better power to use Qualcomm's all-in-one than to use Qualcomm's baseband only chip with Samsung's Exynos. Several companies have done this, including Samsung's S3, so nothing new to see here.
Let me get this straight, Samsung does not ship a "better" SoC in NA because they are worried about power. Interesting logic.
Note that Apple A6 and A7 uses the off SoC Qualcomm chip and has a smaller battery than the Samsung S4. Yet they don't seem to have this power issue you speak about.
Also if you look at the BOM breakout in the article you will see the S4 in NA (Qualcomm SoC) still uses external Qualcomm radio.
Apparently, from the BOM breakout even Samsung Exynos uses external radio too and is only cheaper by a buck compared to Qualcomm external radio.
So where exactly is this power saving you speak of?
I think its more to do with cost of buying just the Qualcomm radio in NA vs both Qualcomm SoC and external Qualcomm Radio. Just want radio with CDMA? ok bend over and pay us $40 bucks.. but if you buy both Qualcom SoC and Qualcom external radio we will give you deal.
I enjoy your articles so much. Really, some of the best research and reporting in the business. AI has really stepped up the quality of its editorials, and it is much appreciated.
Android is dominating the world market because it's user base is more demanding and not so willing to follow whatever their OEM of choice tells them. Android users have no sense of loyalty that allows Google and the device OEM of choice to sit on their fat behinds and offer the same phone year after year. I want Apple to get better and start leading the market again with real innovations rather than stupid new kid color phones. I want an iPhone that gives me my money's worth in hardware not just software. The only way this will happen is for us Apple customers to be more demanding than we are now. It seems everyone here has forgotten how much we have bragged about our AMAZING iDevices and their amazing RELIABILITY. Who do you think provided all those amazing reliable parts right up to now. SAMSUNG!!!
I for one prefer a company that uses the "throw everything and see what sticks" strategy as it truly reveals a company that is eager to see what the CONSUMER REALLY WANTS. Forget all the stupid surveys that ask me what I want, just make everything you can and let me and the rest of the market decide what we like with our $$$. Then start making just those device. This is the most ideal for consumers. I don't want a company telling me whats best for me. We the customers will decide with our dollars. You the company just put out everything you can. Of course this is more costly to the company, but at least I know I'm buying from a company that actually cares about what I want rather than fattening their profit margin year after year. Apple please copy this strategy from Samsung. It truly puts the consumer first. Stop telling me I want some hideous gold iPhone or high gloss plastic cheaply made iPhones with beyond ugly cases to go with it. Just stop being the greediest company on this planet and start giving me value again. Please Apple, Please.
"Not in the shortest time," Samsung's co-CEO Shin Jong-kyun said, "but yes, our next smartphones will have 64-bit processing functionality."
Shades of Microsoft Cairo...
Hmmm....so did Apple copy Android OEMs by going dual core? What happened to it's all about the software? Did they copy Samsung with the 4 inch screen? What happened to 3.5 inches was perfect?
Any chance going 64 bit was the next evolution of CPU? Any chance this would have to do more with ARMs architecture already heading this way? As I stated before, I want Apple to lead once again, but they never will if it's user base are blind loyalists. This causes a company to sit on it's fat rear and fall behind. Apple is falling behind because most of it's user base eat up anything Apple serves them. I am asking all my fellow Apple fans to stops this embarrassing way of thinking and start demanding more. Stop wasting your time on whether or not other companies will full fill their promises.
It's quite sad how there are so many blind loyalists that they will quickly swallow anything written by another blind loyalist. Android is dominating the world market because it's user base is more demanding and not so willing to follow whatever their OEM of choice tells them.
ROTFLMAO.
Android users are more demanding? Then why do they put up with such a crappy OS?
Comments
Interesting read - but very poorly edited.
This line "Outside of backwards land, the Exynos 5 Octa was such an expensive failure that Samsung couldn't handle eating its own dog food within the most competitive market of Apple's home continent." is repeated twice, and paragraph #10 ends with this sentence repeating itself. "Anyone who thinks they know any of this better than Apple is either wrong or wasting their lives if they are not already generating billions of dollars in value with their grand expertise."
Seems to me that if you are going to take the time to write a lengthy information article, you should take a few more minutes to let someone proofread it.
And another one.
Did no one re-read before posting??
Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business.""Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business" - Korea Times
Sure it's makes a good marketing bullet point, but I wouldn't call it a ploy as I see a real benefit to iPhone going 64-bit that no one around the web seems to be mentioning. While some people gargle on DED's balls as he trys to defend a technology that offers little benefit in its current implementation, I think Apple is busy setting up a base for future products (I believe jungmark hinted at this). Having both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of an OS adds a level of fragmentation and introduces the need for backwards compatibility. Once iOS reaches a point where the benefits of having a 64-bit OS can shine, I'm betting that they won't have to be concerned about offering 32-bit compatibility at that point as the legacy devices will then be 64-bit as well. If this is what Apple is planning then I think it's a really smart move on their part.
Interesting attempt at damage control in the "64-bit is a hoax!" Android camp, but I believe your attempt to characterize the A7 using "nothing now, but 64-bit will be important when Android has it!" explanations is simply wrong.
Among the apps being able to make immediate, noticeable use of the A7's new architecture is Touch ID, encryption and likely also video codecs. Also, even if there weren't ANY apps that went 64-bit, having all of the bundled software on the iPhone running against the modern, optimized new instruction set, with access to new registers and cache, all optimized by Apple's LLMV, will deliver immediate benefits.
You can stir up distractions and ridicule those who do get it, but the fact is that you're missing the truth because you're so indebted to a particular ideology that isn't working. You might as well be rooting for Linux netbooks.
And another one.
Did no one re-read before posting??
Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business.""Amid sluggish demand for conventional chips hit by poor sales of personal computers, Apple?s orders were a big help in lifting Samsung?s semiconductor business" - Korea Times
You're reading the automated forum posting, not the article as it appears on the site. So what you're complaining about is a Forum presentation error, not a proofreading flaw.
If you find actual typos in the article, please report them and they'll be fixed.
Interesting attempt at damage control in the "64-bit is a hoax!" Android camp, but I believe your attempt to characterize the A7 using "nothing now, but 64-bit will be important when Android has it!" explanations is simply wrong.
Among the apps being able to make immediate, noticeable use of the A7's new architecture is Touch ID, encryption and likely also video codecs. Also, even if there weren't ANY apps that went 64-bit, having all of the bundled software on the iPhone running against the modern, optimized new instruction set, with access to new registers and cache, all optimized by Apple's LLMV, will deliver immediate benefits.
You can stir up distractions and ridicule those who do get it, but the fact is that you're missing the truth because you're so indebted to a particular ideology that isn't working. You might as well be rooting for Linux netbooks.
It would appear that your Apple tinted lenses are making you see things in what I posted that aren't really there. Whoever you're quoting, it isn't me.
What's holding Apple back from opening up the Apple TV to the AppStore? Instantly have a library of hundreds of thousands of games, game controller compatibility, console-level graphics with the new A7 processors ... As well as other types of media, consumption, and even productivity apps ...
Um, user input would be the main impediment. It is completely different to, select text, by holding your finger over one spot of text, then dragging to another, where the text is directly under your finger, and doing the same with a remote touchpad to select text on your TV.
It requires a different UI, which the AppleTV has, principally, the concept of a cursor [which is what the highlight around the current selected item is].
Some games probably would work OK with a remote touchpad, but most have to rework their input mechansim for the AppleTV.
And then there is reconfiguring the UI to display in landscape in 720p and 1080p.
I am a Mac and iOS developer... Where can I get my hands on one of those Apple LLMVs?
Great article Daniel as always!
just a few comments. First of all, in practice the need for 64 bit addressing is not just limited to DRAM. People seem to forget that we need enough address space to decode access to peripherals (both on chip and off) and fast VRAM.
Recall what we saw with Windows PCs migration to 64 bit Windows. We had PC shipping with 3GB (not 4GB) while the market waited for Microsoft to get Windows 64 bit SW widely adopted.
Now, look at what Samsung announced earlier this month with Note 3 and the latest 10" tablet. 3GB RAM. While I dislike Samsung, I honestly do think Samsung had plans for 64 bit HW, but was waiting for Android SW stock to catch up. Same problem as we had with Windows PCs. If Google had released 64 bit Android prior (this past summer), I think Samsung would have released 64 HW a few weeks ago and shipping with 4GB RAM instead of being capped with 3GB specs. I think Samsung needs 64 as of today. Anyone who thinks Samsung did not want 64 bit SW support for this year's Note 3 and 10.1 tablet would be ignorant. Did they need it, no. Did they want it, yes.
However, I do think Samsung was surprised that Apple had made the jump to 64bit both in SW and HW so soon because iOS was only using 1GB RAM in prior iOS HW (likely only 2GB of total address space) . I think Samsung and Google thought they had more time to get their 64 SW stack story together before Apple raised the bar.
Samsung miscalculated Apple's timing and their plans for 64bit were no doubt gated by Google's Android timeline; something they do not yet control to the level required to make the switch to complete 64 bit product themselves. No doubt they are more in hurry now to push Google to support 64 bit SW now that Apple has made the switch. Get the whip!
The argument about Qualcomm chips being used in Samsung in North America is uninformed - they are used because Qualcomm has a monopoly on the cellular baseband chips required for several of the carriers in North America, and it is better power to use Qualcomm's all-in-one than to use Qualcomm's baseband only chip with Samsung's Exynos. Several companies have done this, including Samsung's S3, so nothing new to see here.
The point is that if samsung putting out there flagship phone the gs4 don't use the very fastest processor the exynos of there own design, it basically means they have no faith in there own architecture. So no its not uniformed. You would think they would want there most prestigious device to be the fastest and most capable device they sell everywhere. So yes there is a lot new to see here.
I am a Mac and iOS developer... Where can I get my hands on one of those Apple LLMVs?
If you are a Mac and iOS developer, and reasonably up to date with XCode, you already have been using LLVM for quite some time.
edited to be more accurate - I see appleinsider as the opposite Anandtech - good for news and business insights, not so good on technical details. Stick to what you're good at and don't try to throw in tech details you don't really understand.
Judging from your 2 posts here you should go back to anandtech. Since this a stupid sight in your eyes. and if you actually read the article you would see that DED is quoting other people that DO know what there talking about, when talking about technical issues. He even quotes Brian Klug and Anand Lal Shimpi's reactions to the new A7 and they were impressed.
The argument about Qualcomm chips being used in Samsung in North America is uninformed - they are used because Qualcomm has a monopoly on the cellular baseband chips required for several of the carriers in North America, and it is better power to use Qualcomm's all-in-one than to use Qualcomm's baseband only chip with Samsung's Exynos. Several companies have done this, including Samsung's S3, so nothing new to see here.
Let me get this straight, Samsung does not ship a "better" SoC in NA because they are worried about power. Interesting logic.
Note that Apple A6 and A7 uses the off SoC Qualcomm chip and has a smaller battery than the Samsung S4. Yet they don't seem to have this power issue you speak about.
Also if you look at the BOM breakout in the article you will see the S4 in NA (Qualcomm SoC) still uses external Qualcomm radio.
Apparently, from the BOM breakout even Samsung Exynos uses external radio too and is only cheaper by a buck compared to Qualcomm external radio.
So where exactly is this power saving you speak of?
I think its more to do with cost of buying just the Qualcomm radio in NA vs both Qualcomm SoC and external Qualcomm Radio. Just want radio with CDMA? ok bend over and pay us $40 bucks.. but if you buy both Qualcom SoC and Qualcom external radio we will give you deal.
Yes, I have been using LLVM for some time -- but the op referred to a LLMV.
Daniel,
I enjoy your articles so much. Really, some of the best research and reporting in the business. AI has really stepped up the quality of its editorials, and it is much appreciated.
[VIDEO]
And this:
[VIDEO]
Android is dominating the world market because it's user base is more demanding and not so willing to follow whatever their OEM of choice tells them. Android users have no sense of loyalty that allows Google and the device OEM of choice to sit on their fat behinds and offer the same phone year after year. I want Apple to get better and start leading the market again with real innovations rather than stupid new kid color phones. I want an iPhone that gives me my money's worth in hardware not just software. The only way this will happen is for us Apple customers to be more demanding than we are now. It seems everyone here has forgotten how much we have bragged about our AMAZING iDevices and their amazing RELIABILITY. Who do you think provided all those amazing reliable parts right up to now. SAMSUNG!!!
I for one prefer a company that uses the "throw everything and see what sticks" strategy as it truly reveals a company that is eager to see what the CONSUMER REALLY WANTS. Forget all the stupid surveys that ask me what I want, just make everything you can and let me and the rest of the market decide what we like with our $$$. Then start making just those device. This is the most ideal for consumers. I don't want a company telling me whats best for me. We the customers will decide with our dollars. You the company just put out everything you can. Of course this is more costly to the company, but at least I know I'm buying from a company that actually cares about what I want rather than fattening their profit margin year after year. Apple please copy this strategy from Samsung. It truly puts the consumer first. Stop telling me I want some hideous gold iPhone or high gloss plastic cheaply made iPhones with beyond ugly cases to go with it. Just stop being the greediest company on this planet and start giving me value again. Please Apple, Please.
Shades of Microsoft Cairo...
"Not in the shortest time," Samsung's co-CEO Shin Jong-kyun said, "but yes, our next smartphones will have 64-bit processing functionality."
Shades of Microsoft Cairo...
Hmmm....so did Apple copy Android OEMs by going dual core? What happened to it's all about the software? Did they copy Samsung with the 4 inch screen? What happened to 3.5 inches was perfect?
Any chance going 64 bit was the next evolution of CPU? Any chance this would have to do more with ARMs architecture already heading this way? As I stated before, I want Apple to lead once again, but they never will if it's user base are blind loyalists. This causes a company to sit on it's fat rear and fall behind. Apple is falling behind because most of it's user base eat up anything Apple serves them. I am asking all my fellow Apple fans to stops this embarrassing way of thinking and start demanding more. Stop wasting your time on whether or not other companies will full fill their promises.
ROTFLMAO.
Android users are more demanding? Then why do they put up with such a crappy OS?