Some reporter needs to do an investigative report on these "analysts". How about a public review of their performance over time? They are making investment suggestions - so we should understand just how correct they are or have been in their prognostication over time.
I don't have a narrative. It is clear the iPhone 5c is selling far less than the 5s. Are you doubting that fact?
Based on that I am speculating whether Apple mispriced the 5c, or if it was their plan all along. Based on their track record it is probably the latter.
I don't have a narrative, and I am not saying Apple is doing it wrong.
The 5c price seems a little high to me too, but I'm sure the folks at Apple who determined the 5c price point put significantly more research, thought and analysis into their decision than anyone who posts on Apple Insider, including myself. My own speculation as to why the 5s is outselling the 5c 3.5 to 1 during the first week of sales is that early adopters are more inclined to chose the high-end option with all the bells and whistles, and they tend to have more disposable income, meaning that $100 difference doesn't seem like much to them. Early adopters want the best, no matter what the cost.
I'm sure the 5s and 5c are selling pretty much as Apple expected them to sell the first week. Once the early-adopter feeding frenzy is over I think we'll see more cost-conscious consumers entering the waters and within a few months the 5c sales will start gaining ground on the 5s and will eventually overtake the 5s in monthly sales.
Look it is not easy selling millions of units in weekend that people want let alone 9 MILLION of computers in your hand. But Apple makes it look easy even though it is not. This is why analysts are jaded and bash Apple that it can do better and falling behind.
I really cannot believe the bashing Apple gets even on record setting day. CNBC had on 2 analysts today - one said Apple will long term be like MSFT and has 300 price target. Really Apple has shown it is like MSFT? One of most profitable companies in world with record setting sales almost every year and historical record of innovative products? This analyst would think that Apple's sticky ecosystem is worth ZERO with ZERO sales growth.
2nd analyst says Apple sales was really flat and growth was because they expanded into China. It is like he saying Apple is not playing fair because Apple expanded its market/distribution. Let me ask you this - isn't that how every company expands - by expanding into new markets? But when Apple does it and does it really well with complexity of supply chain and logistics- the negative analysts are saying like Apple is CHEATING. COME ON!
And analyst Muster is like well we were off our prediction because Apple has TWO products now 5S and 5C. So it is not our fault our estimates were so wrong even though everyone knew what products were coming out before launch. So Apple gets dinged because they came out with more products that people buy millions of units of. And funny thing is that most analysts universally panned 5C as too expensive and would be rejected by customers but which sold millions at launch.
Who else can sell or even make 9 million units in launch weekend? I imagine 9 million units is incredibly hard to make especially for something as complex as computer inside your hand. But theses flimsy analysts are making it seem like anyone can do it in their sleep, and comes off as really jaded of record sales Apple sets.
Same analysts who predicted 5-6 million units sold and the 5C would be dud and they got that wrong even though they KNEW ahead of time China was included in launch. A beat is a beat and these are actual sales and not dubious click farms in India- it is like Apple is penalized for finding new ways to do it. It is like analyst are saying wait till next quarter - oh they did great on that - ok lets wait quarter after that - eventually Apple will fall flat and I will be right. Is that how business school is teaching to value companies?
Like how analysts predict sales by how many people in line at a store or asking 100 people which model they are getting. When over 9 MILLION were sold around world. It is absurd how some analysts think and do their analysis.
Same shady analysts who buy into AMZN who has PE 250 and lost money every year since it was born. If you give me billions of dollars - I promise you I can sell products at or below cost and never make a profit too. Analysts prefer that over Apple PE 10 and one of most profitable companies in world. Eventually analysts will be right and AMZN will make tiny profit and analyst will be like you see I told you so.
And they don't even mention NEW Apple products planned for 2014 like that will be worth zero too
what a moron... $300 for apple in the future. even Google or MS have higher EPS than apple would have at $300. and this guy keep saying apple is failing to innovate. I bet the last thing this guy innovated landed in a toilet
Haha. Agree 100%. That Trainer guy called for AAPL @240 in May of this year! You could be tempted to just call him stupidly stupid (and insult really stupid people) but I think he did it to manipulate, and short the stock . By the way he uses a bogus calculation only he uses, to achieve stock price he wants. And no the SEC never pays attention to these guys.
Of course each and every one of these douche bag analysts are finding some way to play this down. Now that they have been slapped in the face with there utter failure and incompetence. The fact is that Apple blew there estimates, low ball reccommendations and self serving tripe out of the water, the bitter taste of there own vitriol in there mouths make them stay negative. Saying this is just an anomaly. Funning thing is this "Anomaly" happens every year.
I don't have a narrative. It is clear the iPhone 5c is selling far less than the 5s. Are you doubting that fact?
Yes. Because there is no concrete evidence to support this. Before you cite reports from analysts and tech pundits, just remember whether you always take their word for granted.
APPL will never inovate again, don't bank on that.
They already have. First 64 bit mobile processor (by the way that is huge and has nothing to do with the 4 gig crap people keep regurgitating), First mass marketable Capacitance fingerprint sensor that really works (not the pos atria sensor that failed in the first few months of use and was buggy at best) as well as the digitally secure enclave technology in the A7, iOS 7 first 64 bit mobile os, M7 motion co processor, Mac Pro... and the list just keeps rolling.
Why aren’t they being fired for being wrong? Why aren’t they docked pay for being wrong? Why aren’t they made to write public apologies for being wrong?
You want a secure job, be an analyst. Zero accountability, zero truth to find, zero expectations. Want another one? Be a politician in an unobservant district.
Want perpetual tenure? Be a political analyst.
On the other hand, it's their job to help their clients (I pity the fools) make money. Are these salespeople/analysts doing that or not? We don't know. They may publicly scream from the bleachers that Apple is doomed to failure, or whatever, but we are not privy to what they are doing behind the scenes.
Let it be said that there are no takers here for their brand of shuck and jive, except AppleInsider which continues to act as a ready and willing conduit for their sewage.
I don't have a narrative. It is clear the iPhone 5c is selling far less than the 5s. Are you doubting that fact?
Based on that I am speculating whether Apple mispriced the 5c, or if it was their plan all along. Based on their track record it is probably the latter.
I don't have a narrative, and I am not saying Apple is doing it wrong.
Ridiculous.
Apple has used the 'good, better, best' plan for years. Each time, when a new phone comes out, the previous flagship drops to 'better' and sells for $100 less than 'best'.
This time, for the first time, they redesigned the phone so that 'better' is the old 'best, but with a new case and some minor improvements. So, instead of being simply 'last year's phone', it's 'last year's phone, but with some better internals and redesigned to have more appeal to a younger audience'. So why should they discount it MORE than $100 (their standard practice) when they've actually improved the phone's operation?
And look at the results. They reportedly sold around 2 M 5C phones in one weekend. While that doesn't look all that hot when you compare it to 7 M for the 5S, it's actually an amazing number. Who else has ever sold 2 million of last year's phones in a single weekend? Heck, there are only a couple of phones that sold that well - even when they were the latest, greatest, flagship phone with new technology. Doing that well with last year's technology is impressive. It's even more impressive when you see how big a leap the 5S is - and people could buy it for only $100 more.
There's no rational way to label the 5C sales a failure - which is what you're suggesting no matter how much you deny it.
And those valid concerns are what exactly? That article is nothing but one of a long string of yearly bleating about how Apple is no longer innovative, blah blah blah. These tards were saying the same thing even before Steve Jobs died. Does no one remember how the iPad was going to fail because it was nothing but a "large iPod touch"?
it seems like that era of innovation has given way to an age of incremental change
The keyword is 'seems', this is how stockholders view Apple even though we know different.
Does Apple become a boring profit machine like Microsoft, churning out upgrades and improvements to its existing line of hits? Or do they find a way to create another “must have” new product, new category, new something that we never thought we needed and we can’t live without?
Another concern of stockholders, many believe the magic of Apple died when SJ did.
The author does also lavish praise upon Apple, and he wrote nothing with any conviction, it's all a bunch of 'what ifs'.
APPL will never inovate again, don't bank on that. Think ibank, a serious iTV, and wearables So if you are a swing trader, shut up, take your short term profits and move on to another forum
That may be true for Appell Petroleum (APPL). I don't follow them, so I don't know.
But if you think it's true of AAPL, you're delusional.
Why aren’t they being fired for being wrong? Why aren’t they docked pay for being wrong? Why aren’t they made to write public apologies for being wrong?
You want a secure job, be an analyst. Zero accountability, zero truth to find, zero expectations. Want another one? Be a politician in an unobservant district.
Want perpetual tenure? Be a political analyst.
So true. One of the sad facts of our lives today is that there is no accountability for one's actions.
Why are these analyst feeling the need to comment and provide guidance on Apple every other day. Munster got China Mobile deal wrong, been expecting an Apple TV since 2010, and now going on record that Apple only sold 5million iPhones. BTW, where's the analyst with the grotesquely low supply comment. If you are more wrong than right why hop on TV every other day. Lastly, MLee is quick to bring on a chartist when the stock is tanking. Why did we not have someone reporting on the double bottom and golden cross. Instead we hear these clowns saying Apple's fair value is 300k. If you not gonna help people make money get off the set!
Comments
Some reporter needs to do an investigative report on these "analysts". How about a public review of their performance over time? They are making investment suggestions - so we should understand just how correct they are or have been in their prognostication over time.
Then you're just flapping your lips and not making sense. Take your uninformed non-narrative where we can't smell it.
My narrative?
The 5c price seems a little high to me too, but I'm sure the folks at Apple who determined the 5c price point put significantly more research, thought and analysis into their decision than anyone who posts on Apple Insider, including myself. My own speculation as to why the 5s is outselling the 5c 3.5 to 1 during the first week of sales is that early adopters are more inclined to chose the high-end option with all the bells and whistles, and they tend to have more disposable income, meaning that $100 difference doesn't seem like much to them. Early adopters want the best, no matter what the cost.
I really cannot believe the bashing Apple gets even on record setting day. CNBC had on 2 analysts today - one said Apple will long term be like MSFT and has 300 price target. Really Apple has shown it is like MSFT? One of most profitable companies in world with record setting sales almost every year and historical record of innovative products? This analyst would think that Apple's sticky ecosystem is worth ZERO with ZERO sales growth.
2nd analyst says Apple sales was really flat and growth was because they expanded into China. It is like he saying Apple is not playing fair because Apple expanded its market/distribution. Let me ask you this - isn't that how every company expands - by expanding into new markets? But when Apple does it and does it really well with complexity of supply chain and logistics- the negative analysts are saying like Apple is CHEATING. COME ON!
And analyst Muster is like well we were off our prediction because Apple has TWO products now 5S and 5C. So it is not our fault our estimates were so wrong even though everyone knew what products were coming out before launch. So Apple gets dinged because they came out with more products that people buy millions of units of. And funny thing is that most analysts universally panned 5C as too expensive and would be rejected by customers but which sold millions at launch.
Who else can sell or even make 9 million units in launch weekend? I imagine 9 million units is incredibly hard to make especially for something as complex as computer inside your hand. But theses flimsy analysts are making it seem like anyone can do it in their sleep, and comes off as really jaded of record sales Apple sets.
Same analysts who predicted 5-6 million units sold and the 5C would be dud and they got that wrong even though they KNEW ahead of time China was included in launch. A beat is a beat and these are actual sales and not dubious click farms in India- it is like Apple is penalized for finding new ways to do it. It is like analyst are saying wait till next quarter - oh they did great on that - ok lets wait quarter after that - eventually Apple will fall flat and I will be right. Is that how business school is teaching to value companies?
Like how analysts predict sales by how many people in line at a store or asking 100 people which model they are getting. When over 9 MILLION were sold around world. It is absurd how some analysts think and do their analysis.
Same shady analysts who buy into AMZN who has PE 250 and lost money every year since it was born. If you give me billions of dollars - I promise you I can sell products at or below cost and never make a profit too. Analysts prefer that over Apple PE 10 and one of most profitable companies in world. Eventually analysts will be right and AMZN will make tiny profit and analyst will be like you see I told you so.
And they don't even mention NEW Apple products planned for 2014 like that will be worth zero too
what a moron... $300 for apple in the future. even Google or MS have higher EPS than apple would have at $300. and this guy keep saying apple is failing to innovate. I bet the last thing this guy innovated landed in a toilet
Haha. Agree 100%. That Trainer guy called for AAPL @240 in May of this year! You could be tempted to just call him stupidly stupid (and insult really stupid people) but I think he did it to manipulate, and short the stock . By the way he uses a bogus calculation only he uses, to achieve stock price he wants. And no the SEC never pays attention to these guys.
Of course each and every one of these douche bag analysts are finding some way to play this down. Now that they have been slapped in the face with there utter failure and incompetence. The fact is that Apple blew there estimates, low ball reccommendations and self serving tripe out of the water, the bitter taste of there own vitriol in there mouths make them stay negative. Saying this is just an anomaly. Funning thing is this "Anomaly" happens every year.
What a bunch of buffoons.
-Tim Cook
There is no reason for the 5c to ever be priced the same as the 5s (which happens at the $200 level).
The 5c is not priced the same as the 5s. It is $100.00 Cheaper.
It would remiss of us to ignore the fact that some analysts are acknowledging that Apple got it right in the first place.
My narrative?
Yes. Because there is no concrete evidence to support this. Before you cite reports from analysts and tech pundits, just remember whether you always take their word for granted.
It implies no such thing. Any analyst worth his salary has known that the company was not off-track, so how could how they be "back".
Turkeys. All of them.
APPL will never inovate again, don't bank on that.
They already have. First 64 bit mobile processor (by the way that is huge and has nothing to do with the 4 gig crap people keep regurgitating), First mass marketable Capacitance fingerprint sensor that really works (not the pos atria sensor that failed in the first few months of use and was buggy at best) as well as the digitally secure enclave technology in the A7, iOS 7 first 64 bit mobile os, M7 motion co processor, Mac Pro... and the list just keeps rolling.
Why aren’t they being fired for being wrong? Why aren’t they docked pay for being wrong? Why aren’t they made to write public apologies for being wrong?
You want a secure job, be an analyst. Zero accountability, zero truth to find, zero expectations. Want another one? Be a politician in an unobservant district.
Want perpetual tenure? Be a political analyst.
On the other hand, it's their job to help their clients (I pity the fools) make money. Are these salespeople/analysts doing that or not? We don't know. They may publicly scream from the bleachers that Apple is doomed to failure, or whatever, but we are not privy to what they are doing behind the scenes.
Let it be said that there are no takers here for their brand of shuck and jive, except AppleInsider which continues to act as a ready and willing conduit for their sewage.
Ridiculous.
Apple has used the 'good, better, best' plan for years. Each time, when a new phone comes out, the previous flagship drops to 'better' and sells for $100 less than 'best'.
This time, for the first time, they redesigned the phone so that 'better' is the old 'best, but with a new case and some minor improvements. So, instead of being simply 'last year's phone', it's 'last year's phone, but with some better internals and redesigned to have more appeal to a younger audience'. So why should they discount it MORE than $100 (their standard practice) when they've actually improved the phone's operation?
And look at the results. They reportedly sold around 2 M 5C phones in one weekend. While that doesn't look all that hot when you compare it to 7 M for the 5S, it's actually an amazing number. Who else has ever sold 2 million of last year's phones in a single weekend? Heck, there are only a couple of phones that sold that well - even when they were the latest, greatest, flagship phone with new technology. Doing that well with last year's technology is impressive. It's even more impressive when you see how big a leap the 5S is - and people could buy it for only $100 more.
There's no rational way to label the 5C sales a failure - which is what you're suggesting no matter how much you deny it.
The keyword is 'seems', this is how stockholders view Apple even though we know different.
Another concern of stockholders, many believe the magic of Apple died when SJ did.
The author does also lavish praise upon Apple, and he wrote nothing with any conviction, it's all a bunch of 'what ifs'.
That may be true for Appell Petroleum (APPL). I don't follow them, so I don't know.
But if you think it's true of AAPL, you're delusional.
Why aren’t they being fired for being wrong? Why aren’t they docked pay for being wrong? Why aren’t they made to write public apologies for being wrong?
You want a secure job, be an analyst. Zero accountability, zero truth to find, zero expectations. Want another one? Be a politician in an unobservant district.
Want perpetual tenure? Be a political analyst.
So true. One of the sad facts of our lives today is that there is no accountability for one's actions.