Delta Pilots fought against deal to replace iPad flight bags with Microsoft Surface

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  • Reply 141 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dajunga View Post

     

     

    Alternatively you could argue that Apple was wrong for two decades 1984-2004. Microsoft's model ruled the roost for over 20 years.. But nothing lasts forever so now that times have changed Microsoft is attempting to adapt. That's what good companies do. Apple was forced to adapt after nearly going out of business in 1999 - It was the iPod / iTunes combination that pulled them from the brink.


     

    WRONG. The Bondi Blue iMac pulled them from the brink, long before iPod / iTunes, even before Mac OS X was ready. And what was it? Another closed, vertically integrated, all-in-one Mac with limited expansion and NO FLOPPY DRIVES, which caused an outcry. Unless you considered translucent colored plastic to be "adapting." No. Apple became focused, an even better version of itself.

  • Reply 142 of 162
    runbuhrunbuh Posts: 315member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

     

     

    Yes, I know what they are used for. And no, the FAA does not have to get into details about how sensitive a touch device is or is not. You won't crash your aircraft if you have to tap twice on an approach chart. 


    I'm guessing you've never flown a single or twin piston engine aircraft, with no autopilot, in turbulent IMC, while trying to work an iPad, without busting your altitude.  Situation awareness can really suffer when trying to juggle that many things.

  • Reply 143 of 162
    So all Microsoft employees must now fly Delta? These companies deserve each other.
  • Reply 144 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

     

    I'm guessing you've never flown a single or twin piston engine aircraft, with no autopilot, in turbulent IMC, while trying to work an iPad, without busting your altitude.  Situation awareness can really suffer when trying to juggle that many things.


     

    Situational awareness if vital (almost to having enough fuel*); however, the time you pick up from having to shuffle paper copies to 'tapping twice' is so huge, why is this even a conversation with the FAA? When you fly, are you telling me that having to tap twice on a screen diverts your attention so much that it may be critical to your flight? Then I suggest you get autopilot :) 

     

    *you can never have enough fuel... unless you are on fire :) 

  • Reply 145 of 162

    Technically it was Microsoft's $150 investment that pulled Apple from the brink. But that's another story.

    http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

     

    Apple's Macs aren't responsible for the huge turn to profitability. Its was Apple's focus on mobile devices first with music players, then the "music player + phone + communication" device also known as the iPhone and soon after that the iPad. That's hardly debatable.

  • Reply 146 of 162
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,979member
    dajunga wrote: »
    Technically it was Microsoft's $150 investment that pulled Apple from the brink. But that's another story.
    http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Apple's Macs aren't responsible for the huge turn to profitability. Its was Apple's focus on mobile devices first with music players, then the "music player + phone + communication" device also known as the iPhone and soon after that the iPad. That's hardly debatable.

    And in true moronic fashion MS sold their investment as soon as they could.
  • Reply 147 of 162
    Originally Posted by dajunga View Post

    Technically it was Microsoft's $150 investment that pulled Apple from the brink. But that's another story.

     

    No, technically you don’t have the first clue what you’re talking about. If you want firsthand proof, ask our resident NeXT employee to tell you how stupid you sound.

     

    Apple's Macs aren't responsible for the huge turn to profitability.


     

    Other than the fact that they were, as all quarterly reports from 1995 to 2001 show.

     

    That's hardly debatable. 


     

    It’s hardly debatable that you’re wrong in every conceivable way there is to be wrong.

  • Reply 148 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

    Quote:

    Technically it was Microsoft's $150 investment that pulled Apple from the brink. But that's another story.

     



     

    No, technically you don’t have the first clue what you’re talking about. If you want firsthand proof, ask our resident NeXT employee to tell you how stupid you sound.

     

    Other than the fact that they were, as all quarterly reports from 1995 to 2001 show.


     

    1995 - 2001?

    1995 was the start of a severe downward trend for AAPL. It started to turnaround after August 1997 - The month MSFT invested $150M. That's not a coincidence. I know its hard for you to swallow but that doesn't mean its not true.

  • Reply 149 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by dajunga View Post

    1995 was the start of a severe downward trend for AAPL.


     

    And at what point did I say anything about the stock price? You’re to look at ’95’s reports for a reference where they were, then where they went. Microsoft’s investment didn’t earn them any money.

  • Reply 150 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    And at what point did I say anything about the stock price? You’re to look at ’95’s reports for a reference where they were, then where they went. Microsoft’s investment didn’t earn them any money.


     

    It kept AAPL in business. They needed the cash is the point. Their existing business was not getting it done for them. Microsoft's commitment to continue supporting MS Office for Mac was critical in keeping the Mac a viable alternative to the PC.

     

    Quote:




     


    "Walter Isaacson’s Jobs’ biography"


    Jobs: I called up Bill and said, “I’m going to turn this thing around.” Bill always had a soft spot for Apple. We got him into the application software business. The first Microsoft apps were Excel and Word for the Mac. So I called him and said, “I need help.” Microsoft was walking over Apple’s patents. I said, “If we kept up our lawsuits, a few years from now we could win a billion-dollar patent suit. You know it, and I know it. But Apple’s not going to survive that long if we’re at war. I know that. So let’s figure out how to settle this right away. All I need is a commitment that Microsoft will keep developing for the Mac and an investment by Microsoft in Apple so it has a stake in our success.


  • Reply 151 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by dajunga View Post

    It kept AAPL in business.


     

    Yeah, we’ve already said otherwise. 

     

    They needed the cash is the point.


     

    Didn’t; their products were already making it back.

     

    Their existing business was not getting it done for them.


     

    That’d be why Steve Jobs axed the entire product line when he returned and completely revamped the business.

     

    Microsoft's commitment to continue supporting MS Office for Mac was critical in keeping the Mac a viable alternative to the PC.


     

    Mmm… I’ll say nah to that.

     

    And your quote doesn’t support your argument, by the way.

  • Reply 152 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Yeah, we’ve already said otherwise. 

     

    Didn’t; their products were already making it back.

     

    That’d be why Steve Jobs axed the entire product line when he returned and completely revamped the business.

     

    Mmm… I’ll say nah to that.

     

    And your quote doesn’t support your argument, by the way.


     

    Ok.

  • Reply 153 of 162
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

     

    I'm guessing you've never flown a single or twin piston engine aircraft, with no autopilot, in turbulent IMC, while trying to work an iPad, without busting your altitude.  Situation awareness can really suffer when trying to juggle that many things.


     

    So how do you manage flipping through pages in 40lbs of manuals under the same circumstances?

  • Reply 154 of 162
    I'll never forget we had a flight get delayed due to issues with the cockpit computer once. They ended up having us exit & get on a different plane. As we passed the cockpit I saw through the door the flight computer had the blue screen of death. Judging by these pilot's opposition to the surface makes me wonder how often they've seen that screen.
  • Reply 155 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post



    I'll never forget we had a flight get delayed due to issues with the cockpit computer once. They ended up having us exit & get on a different plane. As we passed the cockpit I saw through the door the flight computer had the blue screen of death. Judging by these pilot's opposition to the surface makes me wonder how often they've seen that screen.

     

    See... now you're just making shit up.

  • Reply 156 of 162
    As a former iPad app developer for an airline, I can say that iOS is currently a poor platform for enterprise, business, and general productivity. The app I made for iPad took me 5 months, but if I did it on .Microsoft's .NET it would have taken me a few weeks. Objective-C is archaic and is reminiscent of programming in the 1990's. And what consumers don't know is Apple is far behind in giving tools to developers. Want to learn about Apple programming? Well, buy a book and in three months it will be a nice paperweight. Apple is trying so hard to catch up to Java and Microsoft because they traditionally were hostile towards developers tampering their system. Of course, that changed when Droid forced them to open their ecosystem to app makers outside of Apple. Making Apple apps is doable if you are making consumer apps. But if you are working with databases, crunching numbers, or doing anything productive, you have to resort to straight-up C!

    Delta went with Microsoft because Microsoft's .NET platform is business-oriented and manageable to develop business solutions on. If Apple wants to cater to business (which they won't), they need to support Java on iOS or have a modern development framework much like Microsoft has with .NET, not some half-baked Objective-C framework that is always changing in desperate attempts to play catchup.
  • Reply 157 of 162

    I guess Steve said it best in his D10 interview, and this closely mirrors my experience working as a teacher in a school as well.

     

    "In enterprise, consumers don't get to choose for themselves, and the people making the decisions usually aren't the ones using them anyways". 

     

    Well, the pilots can only suck it up. 

  • Reply 158 of 162
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

     

    Proper device management?  Oh, you mean all the stuff you can do through group policy in Windows to make the devices on the domain basically unusable? 


    Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that group policy together with active directory is the gold standard for managing computers in a network. So popular is it that Centrify makes a business out of bringing similar management tools to OS X and Linux.

  • Reply 159 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by RacerRex9727 View Post

    Wow, just wow.

     

    I realize you have a lot of free time now, Ballmer, but maybe spend it in reflection on your life instead of trolling Apple forums.

     

    The app I made for iPad took me 5 months, but if I did it on .Microsoft's .NET it would have taken me a few weeks.


     

    I’m sorry you’re so bad at standards-based coding.

     

    Objective-C is archaic and is reminiscent of programming in the 1990's.


     

    And Windows still uses the Registry as its foundation. Sounds like someone’s overcompensating.

     

    And what consumers don't know is Apple is far behind in giving tools to developers.


     

    Free development platform instead of $10,000… free documentation… support comes free with your paid ability to submit apps at all… Sounds like you’re completely wrong.

     
    Delta went with Microsoft because Microsoft's .NET platform is business-oriented and manageable to develop business solutions on.

     

    Is there a wronger wrong than “completely and utterly wrong”?

  • Reply 160 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    Is there a wronger wrong than “completely and utterly wrong”?


     

    Nope :) 

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