Apple reportedly cutting iPhone 5c orders as it boosts 5s production [u]

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  • Reply 81 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    It’s really not at all the same argument.


     

    Why not? He was asking how stupid Apple would look right now for a mea culpa and then lowering the price. Jobs did it and lived with the consequences.

  • Reply 82 of 162
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MazeCookie View Post

     

    This is a lot of peoples argument against the 5c, but it has no backbone.

     

    Nobody complained about the 4S when the 5 was around. There was a $100 difference then. If you were buying a new upgrade, it makes sense for $100 to get the latest.


    This 100 times over.  This is the rebuttal to any "5c is a failure" comment.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post



    It looks and feels cheap, considering nowadays you can get an HTC One for the same price as the 5C.

    What OS does the HTC One run?  Oh ya.... :no:  For the record- the HTC One Mini is my favorite designed phone out there.  Too bad the OS and specs are garbage.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post

     

    True but the 4s had the same glass and aluminium construction, the 5c has a cheaper plastic case. It should be cheaper.


    By how much- 6 bucks?  Seriously- how much cheaper is aluminum vs plastic when it is constructed in the exact same manner (one block and drilled).  Do you not contend that the cost of the 4G/LTE bands, the front camera, and the bigger battery offset those minor savings?

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post



    They should have either gave it the 64 bit SoC or made it another $100 bucks cheaper. I would have gone the 64bit route.

    Were you arguing that the 4S last year should have been $100 cheaper and run an A6?

     

     

     

    The bottom line is that no one can argue that the 5s is a bad phone- so they just reach and grab after something else.  It just happens to be the 5c.  Which, as MazeCookie said- it's last years model.  That's like analysts last year complaining about the lack of sales of the 4s.  All you whiners- were you whining about 4S sales?  No?  Because it's the same freakin' thing!  It's asinine- and further proof that Apple has done amazingly again with the 5s!

  • Reply 83 of 162
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    Why not? He was asking how stupid Apple would look right now for a mea culpa and then lowering the price. Jobs did it and lived with the consequences.


     

    Oh, if it’s JUST the question of lowering a price, I agree with you. But I disagree on taking the action itself in this instance and on calling the two scenarios the same.

  • Reply 84 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by malax View Post

     

    I have very little doubt that Apple will NOT give a mea culpa and lower the price.  Even if Apple, in retrospect, decides that a lower price for the 5c would have been better (and it's far from obvious that that is the case), there is no way they would apologize for the initial price.  That would be turning a victory (millions of sales of 5Cs to happy customers, and apparently even more millions of sales of 5Ss) into a defeat.  How stupid would you have to do be to do that?  On a personal note, I know 2 people who wanted a new iPhone and didn't see the sense in spending an extra $100 for features they didn't value.  In both cases they love the color options and love their new phones (and probably feel pretty smug that they have the same iPhone experience I have plus an extra $100 in their pocket).

     

    Would Apple have sold more 5Cs at a lower price?  Of course.  Would they have sold fewer 5Ss?  Yes.  Can they lower the price of the 5C over time to pick up additional sales?  Yes.  I don't get why this is turning into to such a drama.


    The only one seeing 'drama' here is you. It's not such a big deal. As Apple has done before, they'll do a '$100 iTunes gift card' or some such thing for the early buyers who registered their phones.

     

    In fact, it'll be a terrific opportunity to make a virtue out of a necessity.

  • Reply 85 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    Hmmm... you might be right but the first thing I thought about was that a black 5c would look really cheap.


    How about a camo iPhone. I can take it hunting with me...

  • Reply 86 of 162
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

     

    Some failue, when the 5C is outselling their main competitor's supposedly "best selling" Galaxy S4 ....LOL


    Exactly.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post



    I would not at all be surprised if this story is true. It was quite obvious that the relative pricing of the 5C was a mistake from the get-go. Apple had a chance to blow away the competition there, but chose not to do it.

    Do I need to go to your post history 1 year ago?  Were you complaining that the "pricing of the 4S was a mistake from the get-go"?  No?  Then why complain now?

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    I was one who questioned the pricing of the 5C, but can we wait for Apple's earnings call before we start calling things a mistake?!?

    Again- did you question the pricing of the 4S a year ago?  No?  Then why complain now?



    (see- I can do this all day)

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by malax View Post

     

     

    I have very little doubt that Apple will NOT give a mea culpa and lower the price. 

     

    Can they lower the price of the 5C over time to pick up additional sales?  Yes.


    They won't lower the price.  They never lowered the 3gs, 4, or 4S price (when they were the 2nd tier model)- they won't lower this.  They might offer incentives later on in life- like when AT&T ran the 4S for $1 instead of $99 towards the end of the cycle.  Outside of that- it'll be the same as it's always been.  Because it is the same previous generation phone as its always been.  Just with a plastic case that gets offset with better camera, battery, and LTE bands- and expands it's market to not just the semi-cheap (the cheap still would go for the free 4S), but also the "colorful" and young.

  • Reply 87 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

     

    This 100 times over.  This is the rebuttal to any "5c is a failure" comment.

     

    What OS does the HTC One run?  Oh ya.... :no:  For the record- the HTC One Mini is my favorite designed phone out there.  Too bad the OS and specs are garbage.

     

    By how much- 6 bucks?  Seriously- how much cheaper is aluminum vs plastic when it is constructed in the exact same manner (one block and drilled).  Do you not contend that the cost of the 4G/LTE bands, the front camera, and the bigger battery offset those minor savings?

     

    Were you arguing that the 4S last year should have been $100 cheaper and run an A6?

     

     

     

    The bottom line is that no one can argue that the 5s is a bad phone- so they just reach and grab after something else.  It just happens to be the 5c.  Which, as MazeCookie said- it's last years model.  That's like analysts last year complaining about the lack of sales of the 4s.  All you whiners- were you whining about 4S sales?  No?  Because it's the same freakin' thing!  It's asinine- and further proof that Apple has done amazingly again with the 5s!


    It's not technically the same thing because it's in a different casing. That casing, whether right or wrong, is not viewed as high quality as the casing on the 5. Therefore, many people feel like the price should be reduced further to make up for getting what they view as a cheaper build compared to last years model.

     

    The actual cost difference from making the 5 casing to making the 5c casing doesn't matter. What matters is the perceived cost of making it.

  • Reply 88 of 162
    Analysts are just carnival fortune tellers, except they're less accurate and not as entertaining.

    These guesses are based on discussions with supply chain suppliers. Are these analysts complete morons or total idiots. Cook specifically warned that overall production levels cannot be determined by viewing such partial information. Just become one supplier is no longer producing at a certain level for Apple doesn't mean that others have not increased their supply or that enough has been produced to meet and perhaps even exceed Apple's market needs. Supply orders go up and down, and unless you have access to an overarching understanding of ALL supplies, an analysis is incomplete and incorrect.
  • Reply 89 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

     

    How about a camo iPhone. I can take it hunting with me...


     

    I was thinking about a clear one and then I wondered if the word 'Samsung' could be seen through the back. All hell would break loose.

  • Reply 90 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

     

    Exactly.

     

    Do I need to go to your post history 1 year ago?  Were you complaining that the "pricing of the 4S was a mistake from the get-go"?  No?  Then why complain now?

     

    Again- did you question the pricing of the 4S a year ago?  No?  Then why complain now?



    (see- I can do this all day)

     

    They won't lower the price.  They never lowered the 3gs, 4, or 4S price (when they were the 2nd tier model)- they won't lower this.  They might offer incentives later on in life- like when AT&T ran the 4S for $1 instead of $99 towards the end of the cycle.  Outside of that- it'll be the same as it's always been.  Because it is the same previous generation phone as its always been.  Just with a plastic case that gets offset with better camera, battery, and LTE bands- and expands it's market to not just the semi-cheap (the cheap still would go for the free 4S), but also the "colorful" and young.


    I'm also doubtful they will lower the price, at least not significantly. Lowering the price significantly would mean they would probably also have to lower the price of the 4s. I don't really see that happening.

  • Reply 91 of 162
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

     

    It's not technically the same thing because it's in a different casing. That casing, whether right or wrong, is not viewed as high quality as the casing on the 5. Therefore, many people feel like the price should be reduced further to make up for getting what they view as a cheaper build compared to last years model.

     

    The actual cost difference from making the 5 casing to making the 5c casing doesn't matter. What matters is the perceived cost of making it.


    Huh? 

    All the casing did is open up the market to more people.  If someone was going to buy the 1st tier iPhone 5s- they still are- that doesn't change.  If someone was wanting to go the super cheap route- they get the free one iPhone 4s.  So we're only talking about a tiny sector of "mid-tier" people.  That is now expanded.  Some parents who have kids that would have gotten the "free" 4s because it's cheap- are now getting the 5c because it seems more kid-friendly.  Or people like the color- whatever.



    I just can't believe there is this much b*tching and moaning about a previous generation phone.  It's insane!  If the galaxy s4 came out, and they made the galaxy s3 plastic- would it make news?  Oh wait...

  • Reply 92 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

     

    Huh? 

    All the casing did is open up the market to more people.  If someone was going to buy the 1st tier iPhone 5s- they still are- that doesn't change.  If someone was wanting to go the super cheap route- they get the free one iPhone 4s.  So we're only talking about a tiny sector of "mid-tier" people.  That is now expanded.  Some parents who have kids that would have gotten the "free" 4s because it's cheap- are now getting the 5c because it seems more kid-friendly.  Or people like the color- whatever.



    I just can't believe there is this much b*tching and moaning about a previous generation phone.  It's insane!  If the galaxy s4 came out, and they made the galaxy s3 plastic- would it make news?  Oh wait...


    Sorry but I disagree. Most people I'm talking to are calling the 5c the cheap expensive iPhone. Cheap because of the build, expensive because of the cost. 

     

    Think about a lot of the people that buy iPhones. These people are obsessed with the way it looks. Plastic, no matter what you call it, screams cheap compared to the casing Apple has used before.

     

    This may be momentary though. Once more people actually hold the phone in their hands they will see that it's not as cheaply built as they thought. So, there's still hope that 5c sales will pick up. Or, Apple can make deep discounts on it.

     

    Also, people who are buying s4's are also looking for something different. Looks and build quality doesn't matter to them as much as people buying the iPhones. They're trading build quality and OS reliability for either a bigger screen or a little bit more customizability.

  • Reply 93 of 162
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    As usual the discussion turns crap when Americans wake up. It's all a paranoid rant about the mainstream media.
    tbell wrote: »

    Except Apple did not change the price for the original iPhone. Originally it was not subsidized. AT&T then subsidized it. Apple made the same amount of money. 

    Apple absolutely changed the price and absolutely offered rebates.
    starbird73 wrote: »
    BINGO!


    Who says they miscalculated? You? Notice these stories always come a week or so prior to their earnings report? And Tim says "don't take a report of one manufacturer and try and make connections" and Peter O can say "We order an amount up front to get pricing, and cut later"

    So, those "stories" will come up next Wednesday night/Thursday

    Typical Fox News style paranoia. The big bad MSM. lots of reports are now saying this and rather than discussing it we get paranoid ranting. This report - and AI has two sources now including Reuters - is not based on one manufacturer. Did you read it?
    starbird73 wrote: »
    Yes, it could indicate weak demand. It also could indicate efficient estimating or proper planning [SIZE=11px](yes, I appreciate alliteration)[/SIZE], ensuring the channel is well stocked, they have the average on hand. Remember, they can build these 5c phones faster than the 5 or 5s.

    Apple generally hopes to keep channel inventory at a certain level. If they don't they risk not selling enough next quarter and giving lower forward guidance. Which harms the stock. When other firms sell too much into channel people here get upset about stuffing.
    malax wrote: »
    If he were still alive and didn't learn from past mistakes.  The fact that they cut the price of the original iPhone and pissed off the early adopters is not a justification for repeating that fiasco.  The way to make happy customers into unhappy ones is to make them look like suckers.  That's exactly why a mea culpa would be insane (to say nothing of being unnecessary).

    What actually happened after the price reduction was a massive spike in sales. ( visible in historical charts of iPhone sales). Pissing off the original buyers pissed off < .1% of the total future market and they weren't very angry once they got a rebate.

    Once again back to facts.

    1) Apple didn't position the 5C to sell more of the 5S. If they did mean to do that they wouldn't have overestimated 5C demand and underestimated 5S demand. They made a mistake. It happens.
    2) the hints in the conference call will be apple reporting high inventory at end Sept Q and higher margins than expected. We already know the latter is true.

    Possibly also lower guidance although the 5S might make up for that.
  • Reply 94 of 162
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    Wrong.

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/technology/07apple.html?_r=0


     

    Yes, I stand corrected. I was thinking of when Apple changed its subsidy agreement with AT&T bringing the entry model down to $199.

     

    I still think the situation is different. With the original iPhone, Apple was releasing a new product. It did not know how successful or not it would be, and it invested hundreds of millions of dollars on research.   It also was almost betting the future of the company on its success. It is better to price high initially to try and recoup its out of pocket cost.  After it understood the dynamics for the new product, it adjusted its price. 

     

    After the unreasonable public outcry though from that quick price drop, it is highly doubtful Apple would suddenly drop the price of a product again. If it did, it likely would not do it personally. Instead, it would make the phone cheaper to partners who would offer deals. I suspect the iPhone 5C, however, is serving the purpose Apple intended, and that Apple is not disappointed with its sales. 

  • Reply 95 of 162
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

     

    Sorry but I disagree. Most people I'm talking to are calling the 5c the cheap expensive iPhone. Cheap because of the build, expensive because of the cost. 

     

    Think about a lot of the people that buy iPhones. These people are obsessed with the way it looks. Plastic, no matter what you call it, screams cheap compared to the casing Apple has used before.

     

    This may be momentary though. Once more people actually hold the phone in their hands they will see that it's not as cheaply built as they thought. So, there's still hope that 5c sales will pick up. Or, Apple can make deep discounts on it.

     

    Also, people who are buying s4's are also looking for something different. Looks and build quality doesn't matter to them as much as people buying the iPhones. They're trading build quality and OS reliability for either a bigger screen or a little bit more customizability.


    Most people I'm talking to like the 5c.  See how that argument doesn't work?

     

    The core problem is everyone is comparing the 5c to the 5s.  They shouldn't.  It should be compared to last year's 4s.  In which case- it is incredibly improved.  I hope that Apple releases individual numbers this next Tuesday- and I think even though theyve never done it- it's a possibility.  Even if it's "we sold x% more iPhone 5c's than 4s' the first month than last year"- I think the numbers would be staggering.

  • Reply 96 of 162
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Irving Muller View Post

     

    It's not technically the same thing because it's in a different casing. That casing, whether right or wrong, is not viewed as high quality as the casing on the 5. Therefore, many people feel like the price should be reduced further to make up for getting what they view as a cheaper build compared to last years model.

     

    The actual cost difference from making the 5 casing to making the 5c casing doesn't matter. What matters is the perceived cost of making it.


     

    Yes, but if statistics are to be believed, the iPhone 5C is selling more than the iPhone 4S did last year. It seems to me the people complaining about the 5C are really just iPhone 5S buyers who want to justify their purchase or people who wanted Apple to give them a $399 phone. Either way, Apple is at least selling as many iPhone 5Cs as it did 4Ss last year, and at a higher profit margin. It can always reduce its wholesale cost to partners to move even more if it feels it is justified. 

  • Reply 97 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I was one who questioned the pricing of the 5C, but can we wait for Apple's earnings call before we start calling things a mistake?!?

    I have no doubt that the earnings will look good given aggregate number of iPhones sold. However, given past calls, I'd be very surprised if we got any information from Cook or Oppenheimer that breaks down 5S v. 5C numbers.

     

    So such speculation as what we're seeing in the WSJ will unfortunately continue to fill the information void....

  • Reply 98 of 162
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member

    Love those analysts. When Apple announced the 9 million iPhone numbers they jumped to say large percentage (30% if I am not mistaken) of those are iPhone 5C. Now they say they are not selling well.

     

    Anyway, I am seeing more and more iPhone 5C on our university campus. The thing about them is you can instantly tell that they are the 5C.

  • Reply 99 of 162
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    asdasd wrote: »
    Possibly also lower guidance although the 5S might make up for that.

    Apple raised their guidance for September.

    Let me repeat: the 5C and 5S target different demographics. $100 difference is too much for some consumers. That's why people buy generics over brand names when the difference is just $1 or $2.
  • Reply 100 of 162
    dilliodillio Posts: 106member

    Funny how much in denial you people are, about this flop called IPhone 5c. I don't think anyone except Tim Cook and Jony Ive asked for a plastic phone, and in those colors, and at that price. Go ahead with your replies, but it shapes up to be true, as the latest rumors come it (yes, I said rumors, I know they are rumors; not all rumors all all false you know). Apple needs to catch up with the times, and update iOS and the iPhone meaningfully. At least the others are trying, and eventually Apple will copy them (control center anyone, notification center?, next touch-less voice control?) But Apple can do some things now just to catch up with itself: fix iMessage, fix control center so I don't turn my Bluetooth off and on when I try to swipe it back down, sweat those little details, Jony, like you boast in those videos.  And fix the horrible interface and functionality of Podcasts app, for G-d's sake. And update all those skeuomorphic leftover apps already. 

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