While it is true that Logic will benefit from the high speed flash storage, that is all it basically will take advantage of.
What Apple needs to do is add/upgrade the Audio Units spec to include hooks for OpenCL. All the plugin processing currently just uses the CPU. If say Waves or iZotope had hooks for their plugins to use OpenCL to do some processing%u2026..that would be huge.
Until that happens, there is really no reason for me to upgrade to 10.9 or a new MacPro. My 2008 MacPro works well with a SSD and Logic Pro X. Plus, I'm not sure drivers for my audio gear will work with 10.9 (they aren't really "supported" in 10.8 but still work).
If your audio gear works with it, an upgrade to Mavericks is worth it! It makes the machine run much faster (most apps and OS services) and cooler -- my 2011 iMac seems like a new machine under Mavericks while Mountain Lion is hot and sloooow....
Not much of an Aperture update if all 3.5 (from 3.4) does is provide hooks for taking advantage of a faster machine that won't ship until Xmas.
BTW : The white balance tool is broken; bug in multiscreen use that screws up the secondary screen in some arrangements; users below 10.9 are shut out. No other differences to 3.4 that I can see.
Not an update to applaud. Absolutely pointless to install it.
I'd say supporting video via sharing on iCloud is a pretty big update alone.
Talking of the new fast storage, obviously that isn't on the internal SSD so I'd like to see Apple come out with some expansion bays themselves and not just leave it to third parties. Perhaps a matching design that can take a bunch of SSDs. Hey maybe it could fit on top with an augmented fan. What about studio quality monitor speakers in matching design too. I am actually being [S]serapes[/S] serious (damned auto spelling) but in a light hearted way, what about matching waste bin and coffee mugs
Talking of the new fast storage, obviously that isn't on the internal SSD so I'd like to see Apple come out with some expansion bays themselves and not just leave it to third parties. Perhaps a matching design that can take a bunch of SSDs. Hey maybe it could fit on top with an augmented fan. What about studio quality monitor speakers in matching design too. I am actually being serapes but in a light hearted way, what about matching waste bin and coffee mugs
Serapes???
Like the time I told the grandkids that the hornets nest in the tree was a piñata
“Where’s the update apple we need an update software is old update it”
*Apple updates the software*
“The software is terrible apple why did you bother updating you didn’t change anything i don’t want it”
Wow, that's terrible reading of my post. Basically, it's a minor update bug and feature wise, and introduces some new issues that are amazing to have made it through. It has nothing to do with anything you have posted, which is your usual.
I don't consider iCloud photo sharing a big deal, as it's nothing to do with sharing of the Aperture projects, just more photo sharing. Smugmug? Already been doing this with a plugin. Fixes in Faces? Places? Maps? iLife thumbnails? A few bug fixes (which have mostly been hanging around for way too long) and they left many out. It's an incremental update that's disappointing considering what Aperture needs to fix to stay competitive beyond its cheaper price. We all await version 4 around Xmas.
Chicken and the egg. I can’t be the only one to see this! You have to have the hardware available for people to want to write the software to take advantage of it!
That is certainly true to an extent. It is one of the reasons AMD has supported porting various pieces of software to support OpenCL.
The concern I have is supporting realtime processing on the GPUs. In this regard I think we are still at the dawn of doing realtime audio on GPU hardware. I see it as both a software and hardware issue. Both AMD and Intel are pushing forward with updating their GPU hardware to make OpenCL like usage even more efficient. Haswell is certainly a big step forward here. Last I knew there was very little audio processing software out there that ran on OpenCL. Most of what I've seen seems to be oriented to technical processing.
The "Swimming in OpenCL" article is over a year old and probably reflects results on even older hardware. The thing here is that eventually some of the problems highlighted will eventually go away with GPU hardware updates and operating system enhancements. For example the issue of locking up the Machine with long running GPU tasks.
In the end I think it will be a few years before the hardware and software get to the point that realtime audio processing on the GPU is a universal solution.
"Cupertino says the Mac Pro's six Thunderbolt 2 ports, with maximum transfer speeds of 20 gigabits per second, will allow producers to add more ultra-low latency audio channels without the need for expensive internal add-on cards."
Unfortunately, the Thunderbolt accessories from pro audio manufacturers are just as expensive as the equivalent cards, if not more expensive. And that's IF they have a Thunderbolt option.
I was just about to say the same thing. The UAD Apollo has a thunderbolt option. The Apollo is already expensive ($2000+). Buying it with the thunderbolt option makes it even more expensive ($500 more).
Another grievance I have with the Mac Pro is that, according to Phil Schiller, a significant portion of it's expense is the dual GPUs. There are some pro users, most notably in pro audio (which is my field), who don't need anywhere near that kind of GPU firepower - and no DAW software has been written to take advantage of OpenCL or CUDA that I am aware of. I would like a version of the Mac Pro that doesn't make me pay a premium for hardware that I can't and wouldn't use.
Sort of agreed, but I'm hoping that availability of GPUs in such machines might encourage developers to work more at utilizing them. There are a few plugins that use GPUs, but I think they're rare and are only on Windows. Plus, I have had great interest in doing 3D work and it would be nice to give that a Rey again in a few years (the software perpetually sucks, but I tend to check it out again every year to see if the suck has decreased at all). Then there's the fact that the new Mac Pro supposedly is 4K video ready, because of those GPUs and thunderbolt 2, and it seems that there are lots of film professionals that are also musicians... and editors, and special effects people, and on and on...
Apple seem to be firing on all cylinders in software.
They just released a tidal wave of software...
Well done.
Keep it coming, Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Well not firing "on all cylinders" exactly. While the new Mac Pro is a nice looking cylinder, most of the other Apple devices are thin planes. Usually round rectangles.
Seems silly to have been complaining about it, then.
Why would you project that I was complaining instead of what I was actually doing, which was pointing out some pitfalls of the update.
Try this, Skil. Do you have Aperture 3.5 installed with Mavericks? Put a floating window on your second monitor. Leave Aperture and come back. The window has disappeared and is somewhere back on your main monitor. Now I can't use a second monitor because it won't keep a floating window on it?
Gee, sorry to be such a horrible person, but that's not going to fly. That's not whining or complaining. That's hitting a deal breaking bug.
I'll wait for word on 3.5.1. I've done my beta testing for the day.
That is assuming that there is enough SSD storage to actually support processing of data on that SSD. I think Apple is being just slightly misleading here, for many users that internal SSD is too small to really benefit processing very large amounts of data.
Yes, this is an issue for us audio people and ... um... us photography people. The blazing fast SSD is attractive but the AMOUNT of storage available is really poor for data-heavy applications. A digital photographer or musician can use up 50 gigs in a short amount of time. What happens when you're both? My new DSLR saves raw images around 120MB a piece. And that's a cropped sensor. Photographers with more money than me, buying full frame sensor cameras, will need more flexibility.
However, that's already the case for many pros with giant computers that do hold drives. Enter the RAID storage device chassis.
My photographer friend is ready to curb stomp Apple over the exclusion of internal drives. I've been trying to get her to see that a computer case full of hard drives is not much better for noise and heat than an external solution, and I personally want them external to my computer anyway because they're easier to replace that way and don't contribute to a noisy and hot system. Put the computer close, and put the drive enclosures further away behind a noise barrier.
Actually he has a point, if your computing software doesn't leverage OpenCL then the Mac Pro is a waste. Ideally that will change in the future but there is no guarantee that GPU computing will work out that well for Audio.
Yes, GPU computing works well for audio. If Apple could afford having a dozen engineers working full time in implementing audio processing with the GPUs, a subset of filters or effects could be implemented in OpenCL by the time the Mac Pro is released.
"Not much of an Aperture update if all 3.5 (from 3.4) does is provide hooks for taking advantage of a faster machine that won't ship until Xmas."
The product update page for 3.5 shows far more improvements than just support for the new Mac Pro. I count about 15 bullet points for new features/improvements, including support for exporting directly to SmugMug, something I've been wanting for a loooong time.
Do we know that 3.5 is the update Apple mentioned in the keynote?
So maybe you shouldn’t have installed it, then? Quit whining.
Absolutely the dumbest post I've read to date. You are obviously a point and shot camera phone user who has no clue about using pro software to support a business. Please stay out of these type of discussions. You lack of understanding is boundless.
Maybe that is why it is a point release! Did you ever consider that?
As for hooks, if the software is OpenCL accelerated then we may see gains on all supported hardware.
You seem to be in a rush to criticize this update. Honestly I've never found it pointless to update software. Even bug fix releases are worth the time.
Comments
“Where’s the update apple we need an update software is old update it”
*Apple updates the software*
“The software is terrible apple why did you bother updating you didn’t change anything i don’t want it”
If your audio gear works with it, an upgrade to Mavericks is worth it! It makes the machine run much faster (most apps and OS services) and cooler -- my 2011 iMac seems like a new machine under Mavericks while Mountain Lion is hot and sloooow....
I'd say supporting video via sharing on iCloud is a pretty big update alone.
Serapes???
Like the time I told the grandkids that the hornets nest in the tree was a piñata
LOL, thanks I fixed it.
“Where’s the update apple we need an update software is old update it”
*Apple updates the software*
“The software is terrible apple why did you bother updating you didn’t change anything i don’t want it”
Wow, that's terrible reading of my post. Basically, it's a minor update bug and feature wise, and introduces some new issues that are amazing to have made it through. It has nothing to do with anything you have posted, which is your usual.
I don't consider iCloud photo sharing a big deal, as it's nothing to do with sharing of the Aperture projects, just more photo sharing. Smugmug? Already been doing this with a plugin. Fixes in Faces? Places? Maps? iLife thumbnails? A few bug fixes (which have mostly been hanging around for way too long) and they left many out. It's an incremental update that's disappointing considering what Aperture needs to fix to stay competitive beyond its cheaper price. We all await version 4 around Xmas.
Smugmug? Already been doing this with a plugin.
Because plugins are always better than native support.
Seems silly to have been complaining about it, then.
That is certainly true to an extent. It is one of the reasons AMD has supported porting various pieces of software to support OpenCL.
The concern I have is supporting realtime processing on the GPUs. In this regard I think we are still at the dawn of doing realtime audio on GPU hardware. I see it as both a software and hardware issue. Both AMD and Intel are pushing forward with updating their GPU hardware to make OpenCL like usage even more efficient. Haswell is certainly a big step forward here. Last I knew there was very little audio processing software out there that ran on OpenCL. Most of what I've seen seems to be oriented to technical processing.
Here is an interesting paper: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2011-siggraph-opencl-bof/OpenCL-BOF-Intel-Sound-Rendering_SIGGRAPH-Aug11.pdf. At the bottom of this thread a guy from a Avid comments: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=339930&page=2. Another look at OpenCL on the CPU versus OpenCL on the GPU: http://supermegaultragroovy.com/2009/11/12/swimming-in-opencl/
The "Swimming in OpenCL" article is over a year old and probably reflects results on even older hardware. The thing here is that eventually some of the problems highlighted will eventually go away with GPU hardware updates and operating system enhancements. For example the issue of locking up the Machine with long running GPU tasks.
In the end I think it will be a few years before the hardware and software get to the point that realtime audio processing on the GPU is a universal solution.
I was just about to say the same thing. The UAD Apollo has a thunderbolt option. The Apollo is already expensive ($2000+). Buying it with the thunderbolt option makes it even more expensive ($500 more).
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=thunderbolt audio interface
Sort of agreed, but I'm hoping that availability of GPUs in such machines might encourage developers to work more at utilizing them. There are a few plugins that use GPUs, but I think they're rare and are only on Windows. Plus, I have had great interest in doing 3D work and it would be nice to give that a Rey again in a few years (the software perpetually sucks, but I tend to check it out again every year to see if the suck has decreased at all). Then there's the fact that the new Mac Pro supposedly is 4K video ready, because of those GPUs and thunderbolt 2, and it seems that there are lots of film professionals that are also musicians... and editors, and special effects people, and on and on...
The possibility to do more with more is nice.
Apple seem to be firing on all cylinders in software.
They just released a tidal wave of software...
Well done.
Keep it coming, Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Well not firing "on all cylinders" exactly. While the new Mac Pro is a nice looking cylinder, most of the other Apple devices are thin planes. Usually round rectangles.
Seems silly to have been complaining about it, then.
Why would you project that I was complaining instead of what I was actually doing, which was pointing out some pitfalls of the update.
Try this, Skil. Do you have Aperture 3.5 installed with Mavericks? Put a floating window on your second monitor. Leave Aperture and come back. The window has disappeared and is somewhere back on your main monitor. Now I can't use a second monitor because it won't keep a floating window on it?
Gee, sorry to be such a horrible person, but that's not going to fly. That's not whining or complaining. That's hitting a deal breaking bug.
I'll wait for word on 3.5.1. I've done my beta testing for the day.
Yes, this is an issue for us audio people and ... um... us photography people. The blazing fast SSD is attractive but the AMOUNT of storage available is really poor for data-heavy applications. A digital photographer or musician can use up 50 gigs in a short amount of time. What happens when you're both? My new DSLR saves raw images around 120MB a piece. And that's a cropped sensor. Photographers with more money than me, buying full frame sensor cameras, will need more flexibility.
However, that's already the case for many pros with giant computers that do hold drives. Enter the RAID storage device chassis.
My photographer friend is ready to curb stomp Apple over the exclusion of internal drives. I've been trying to get her to see that a computer case full of hard drives is not much better for noise and heat than an external solution, and I personally want them external to my computer anyway because they're easier to replace that way and don't contribute to a noisy and hot system. Put the computer close, and put the drive enclosures further away behind a noise barrier.
The product update page for 3.5 shows far more improvements than just support for the new Mac Pro. I count about 15 bullet points for new features/improvements, including support for exporting directly to SmugMug, something I've been wanting for a loooong time.
Do we know that 3.5 is the update Apple mentioned in the keynote?
So maybe you shouldn’t have installed it, then? Quit whining.
Absolutely the dumbest post I've read to date. You are obviously a point and shot camera phone user who has no clue about using pro software to support a business. Please stay out of these type of discussions. You lack of understanding is boundless.
Maybe that is why it is a point release! Did you ever consider that?
As for hooks, if the software is OpenCL accelerated then we may see gains on all supported hardware.
You seem to be in a rush to criticize this update. Honestly I've never found it pointless to update software. Even bug fix releases are worth the time.
Another point and shoot Instacrapper...
I'd say supporting video via sharing on iCloud is a pretty big update alone.
Consumer software. Aperture is more and more becoming less a pro app and more a consumer app... Too bad...