Apple's new iPad mini with Retina display starts at $399, first-gen iPad mini drops to $299

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  • Reply 181 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    ... and that underscores what I've been saying for a while. Analysts see a lot of wishing and hoping. Regardless of Apple's huge financial strength, regardless of strong quarters... there is the problem of declining revenues. The proof will be in the pudding if AAPL is to rise.

     

    If someone isn't invested in Apple then this is of no concern at present. Apple is not going away tomorrow. For someone who is invested then it's of great concern.




    You and Sog bring up good points...EPS is a huge concern.  Don't look for margins to rise.  But look for market share to increase....it'll take time via iPhone/iPad and new products.  Maybe Sog's point is that Apple cannot afford to reduce GM (i.e. status quo is good).  If market share declines, watch out below.  I hate to say it, but as long as goog and amzn stay the course, willing to lose money in order to maintain services/ads, Apple is in unstable territory having to rely totally on marketshare increases while happy to just sustain GM (at this juncture).  Don't get me wrong, Apple is killing it...doing better than I could have imagined.

     

    If I were a betting man, I'd bet on amzn to hold out well in mobile.  goog is playing with fire in mobile and should have just as easily made better partnerships with Apple to have secured its mobile stranglehold (albeit at lesser potential than they have now).

     

    Edit: I need to clarify that "market share" how I'm using it is to mean pragmatic/reputable statistics, not in the sense of the ridiculously manipulative/biased reports that seem to be released every minute.

  • Reply 182 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

    Do you keep all your controls on the desktop?


     

    Last point: please explain to my 80-year old father what controls and desktops are.  One needs to take a step back and think about all the metaphors and terminology they've had to learn in order to operate a PC, to really grasp how much the iPad has simplified things for people like my father.

  • Reply 183 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Let's get back to the example of multi-user.  This requires a whole new layer of user interface.  A way to authenticate a user at any time: from the lock screen or switching while in mid-use.  Also a way to identify which user is currently "logged in" at any time.  It also requires a method to set up multiple accounts.  And what happens if a FaceTime (or similar) call comes in for another user account?  I could keep going with more and more intricate details like this as I think about it more, all of which add complexity to the user interface and the function of the device.

     

    Look, it's the same as the world of PCs: for those who really need to control and do everything and/or want to tinker, there's Linux (or one of the BSD variants).  For those who just want to get a task related to their main interests (other than technology itself) done with as little complication as possible, there's OS X.  Same goes for Android vs Apple tablets.  Each one is "right" for the each different type of user, and it's just silly for one group to argue that the other group needs to be more like them.


     

    So... in conclusion... you are saying that Apple dos not have the ability to make this a simple procedure for people?

     

    If I was designing the software I'd make it so that the default phone was absolutely no different than the phone you are using now.

     

    If someone wanted multi-user then it would be up to them to set the controls in whatever way they wished. It would be up to the users to decide how they want to operate the device.

     

    Apple doesn't have to advertise the function, just like the myriad of functions that most people never ever use on their phone.

     

    Anyway... it doesn't look like Apple is going to add multiuser but to say that it would make the phone too complex is just silly imo.

  • Reply 184 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Last point: please explain to my 80-year old father what controls and desktops are.  One needs to take a step back and think about all the metaphors and terminology they've had to learn in order to operate a PC, to really grasp how much the iPad has simplified things for people like my father.


     

    Bingo.

     

    Does your Father need to know how to use the settings to operate the iPad?

     

    Are their settings that your Father could use that are currently on the iPad that would change his experience with the phone but he still does not use them?

     

    Are those settings visible to your Father and do they get in the way of his user experience?

     

    I'm sure I know your answers to each question. You could put "multi-user' in the place of settings for each scenario and the answers would not change.

  • Reply 185 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Here's a few reasons:

     

    - The average tablet is less than half the cost of the average laptop

    - The average tablet has around 1/20th the storage capacity of the average laptop (a huge factor for supporting multi-user)

    - The user interface for tablet software is designed to be much simpler than that of full-blown computers.  The more complexity you add (multiuser, advanced settings, etc), the more you destroy the benefit of tablets for most people.  This is the very reason why Apple was able to create a market for tablets where others had failed before -- simplicity.  Something the tech-head fandroids just don't seem to get because they only interact with other tech-heads, and they all want to just throw in every feature they can think of (and be willing to spend countless hours learning everything).  Sorry, but that's not something the vast majority of people want.


     

    -The average iPad sells for around $500. That's not much less than the price of the average laptop out there (here's some data from last year http://blog.laptopmag.com/the-average-pc-laptop-cost-507-in-march). 

     

    -True, and this could be a problem if each user wants to store  a large private movie collection on the device. But for casual use such as browsing the web or writing emails, 32gb or 64gb should be plenty for two or three users. 

     

    - What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  

  • Reply 186 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    Bingo.

     

    Does your Father need to know how to use the settings to operate the iPad?

     

    Are their settings that your Father could use that are currently on the iPad that would change his experience with the phone but he still does not use them?

     

    Are those settings visible to your Father and do they get in the way of his user experience?

     

    I'm sure I know your answers to each question. You could put "multi-user' in the place of settings for each scenario and the answers would not change.


     

    But it would.  What would he do if he was met with a list of user accounts at the lock screen?  As he is on a desktop PC which isn't set to auto-login one of the accounts.  What would he do if a FaceTime call came in and asked whether he wanted to switch accounts to answer?  What if he accidentally tapped something or made a gesture which caused the account switch interface to show?

     

    Your argument holds for things which are purely contained to the preferences.  But as soon as anything needs to leak out into the general user interface (even if it isn't always visible), it adds another level of complexity.

  • Reply 187 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    - What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  


     

    ... and if there is only one user then nothing changes. Simple.

  • Reply 188 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    But it would.  What would he do if he was met with a list of user accounts at the lock screen?  As he is on a desktop PC which isn't set to auto-login one of the accounts.  What would he do if a FaceTime call came in and asked whether he wanted to switch accounts to answer?  What if he accidentally tapped something or made a gesture which caused the account switch interface to show?

     

    Your argument holds for things which are purely contained to the preferences.  But as soon as anything needs to leak out into the general user interface (even if it isn't always visible), it adds another level of complexity.


     

    The lock screen can stay the same as it is now for people who do not want multi-user. That would be the default.

     

    ... but I know about things leaking out. That buggy faulty iOS. Sheesh...

     

    C'mon, dude.

  • Reply 189 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    - What sort of complexity are you referring to? The user interface on a tablet with multiple user accounts is essentially the same as when there is only one user. The only difference is that the lockscreen will have an icon representing each user.  


     

    That picture just proved my last point: the user interface for that feature has leaked out into the general experience, and thus, there is another paradigm to be learned before one can use the device.  It's amazing how technology people think that learning these things is just "innate".  They can't even see outside of their own experience.

  • Reply 190 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    The lock screen can stay the same as it is now for people who do not want multi-user. That would be the default.

     

    ... but I know about things leaking out. That buggy faulty iOS. Sheesh...

     

    C'mon, dude.


     

    Go apply for a job helping to design iOS and show 'em how it's done.  Would love to see how fast your ego shrinks explaining your ideas in a room full of people who have spent their entire careers defining the field of human-computer interaction.

  • Reply 191 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Go apply for a job helping to design iOS and show 'em how it's done.  Would love to see how fast your ego shrinks explaining your ideas in a room full of people who have spent their entire careers defining the field of human-computer interaction.


     

    It sounds to me like I'm not the one who needs to have his ego shrunk.

     

    Just saying...

  • Reply 192 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    It sounds to me like I'm not the one who needs to have his ego shrunk.

     

    Just saying...


     

    Please connect the logical dots on that argument for me.  I wasn't the one who said any of this was 'simple', and have only argued against your assertions otherwise.

  • Reply 193 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    That picture just proved my last point: the user interface for that feature has leaked out into the general experience, and thus, there is another paradigm to be learned before one can use the device.  It's amazing how technology people think that learning these things is just "innate".  They can't even see outside of their own experience.


     

    Well yeah, if that feature is enabled then it needs an interface. If there is only one user, those icons aren't there. Is your underlying point that the process of tapping on the icon labeled with your name would be unintuitive to the average tablet user?

  • Reply 194 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Please connect the logical dots on that argument for me.  I wasn't the one who said any of this was 'simple', and have only argued against your assertions otherwise.


     

    Anyone who believes that my ego would be shrunk when faced by design professionals must believe that they are, by default, correct and that I am wrong.

     

    Sounds like a fairly large ego to me.

  • Reply 195 of 203
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    Well yeah, if that feature is enabled then it needs an interface. If there is only one user, those icons aren't there.




     


    And when they go to use another iPad which has been set up with an account for them?  There is value in a consistent user experience across all devices.  The very concept of which is lost on Android users who can't understand why Apple doesn't let you customize every little detail of the user interface/reskin iOS.


     




    Is your underlying point that the process of tapping on the icon labeled with your name would be unintuitive to the average tablet user?


     

    If only it was that simple…

     

    sog35 came up with a few more examples to add to my own.  Shall we go on all day thinking about the endless scenarios which could arise?

  • Reply 196 of 203
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    So... in conclusion... you are saying that Apple dos not have the ability to make this a simple procedure for people?

     

    If I was designing the software I'd make it so that the default phone was absolutely no different than the phone you are using now.

     

    If someone wanted multi-user then it would be up to them to set the controls in whatever way they wished. It would be up to the users to decide how they want to operate the device.

     

    Apple doesn't have to advertise the function, just like the myriad of functions that most people never ever use on their phone.

     

    Anyway... it doesn't look like Apple is going to add multiuser but to say that it would make the phone too complex is just silly imo.


    With ram getting cheaper I suppose the Touch ID could open individualized  spaces, possibly  a better fit for tablets than phones with their cellular accounts...

  • Reply 197 of 203
    I don't know why Apple website does not accept pre-orders! Seems like the right move since everyone now is hyped to buy, buy, buy! At least I willing to buy the iPad Mini Retina with all the memory and LTE!

    But in a few weeks; I may not be in the mood to shell out $829 without taxes, cover, film protection, lightning, new clock radio, etc....
  • Reply 198 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    Dad wheres the Plants vs Zoombies game?

    Son you need to login as me.

     


     

    Wait, isn't one of the main reasons for having a dedicated profile for each person so that parents can restrict the apps their children can access? How would this situation be different if the kid had his or her own iPad?

     

    Quote:

     

    Mom why is there a picture of a strange lady on the screen

     

    Dad who is this person calling.

     


    I'm not sure what you are referring to with the "strange lady", but I assume the second example refers to Facetime calls.  Honest question -- how does OS X handle those incoming calls when there are multiple users on the system?

  • Reply 199 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

    And when they go to use another iPad which has been set up with an account for them?  There is value in a consistent user experience across all devices.  The very concept of which is lost on Android users who can't understand why Apple doesn't let you customize every little detail of the user interface/reskin iOS.

     


    The experience would be similar to that of using two phones, one with a lockscreen pin per company security policy and the other without; or that of using both a home computer with auto-login and a company computer that asks for login credentials; or that of joining two different wireless networks, the public network at a coffee shop and the secured company network.

  • Reply 200 of 203
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    My example of the zoobies game is if a kid plays the game while his father is login.  You would need to give rights for every single game or app you buy and select which user has what rights? 


     

    They obviously can't use the tablet at the same time. What difference does it make whether his father is logged in? If the kid had his own tablet then you would also have to decide which apps to install on the kid's machine. How is that scenario any simpler? 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    To me a tablet is just a larger phone.  Its meant to be a PERSONAL DEVICE not a community device.  Making it a community device will make it more cluttered and difficult to use.


    Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you regard your tablet as essentially a larger phone, then of course you would have no use for multi-user capability. My original premise was that a tablet is more of a multi-purpose computer than a personal phone. As recent sales figures suggest, the use cases of tablets overlap more with those of laptops and desktops than those of smartphones.

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