Yeah, but at least Apple isn't screwing up like Microsoft's Vista fiasco. I guess some people don't remember people going backwards in droves even months after the update and just bypassing it. That didn't seem to stop them using Windows.
Vista was poorly received, but at least people could still buy XP until MS fixed things with windows 7. Similarly MS still makes Win 7 available for people who don't care for windows 8. Is the older iWork still available for purchase?
Vista was poorly received, but at least people could still buy XP until MS fixed things up with windows 7. Similarly MS still makes Win 7 available for people who don't care for windows 8. Is the older iWork still available for purchase?
The people who are complaining about the things left out of the new version of iWork are users of the old version, the older version being available for purchase is a lot less of an issue here. It's somewhat different to FCP7 being taken off the shelves when FCPX came out as post facilities often need to add seats.
People coming to iWork fresh will either work with what's in the current version or not - they'll go to another product that has the features they need. Users of the old version should just stick to it, and go back to their backed up files if necessary.
It is not change itself that is the problem, it is that iWork is downgraded and no longer functional for a large proportion of users.
There is no file upgrade path for those who used power features of '09.
iWork '09 cannot be got on the App Store.
The OS upgrade to Mavericks is good, but the iWork migration has bombed for many. Posters above should distinguish between an OS upgrade and an application upgrade. They are very different.
For those who used only basic Pages etc functions, and did not use and do not miss the deleted functions, that is great for you. No problem with this group of users, and no doubt iCloud and iOS compatibility is terrific for those who do simple word processing.
However, the reaction by more intense and power users to the new iWork, especially on the Apple discussion sites, shows that a large group of users is extremely dissatisfied. Work flow is disrupted and businesses affected. Yes they can go back to the '09 verision but for how long? Apple support is broken and Apple are silent.
It would be helpful if users of more basic functionality and iCloud/iOS iWork would recognise that this problem is not about them, it is about more advanced users who were formerly catered for by iWork '09 but no longer are. Instead of slagging of genuine problems and imposing your views on other types of users, recognise that you are one of a spectrum of user types, as are we. All should be catered for as they previously were.
Well, it's good to know that I can reject all of this agonizing as pure Bull$hit, sight unseen. By now the hallmarks of a (originally just Micro$haft but now Samscum and general Fandroid) disinformation campaign are painfully obvious. Seconds after any Apple product announcement—long before anybody could possibly know anything about the subject—hundreds of newbies, never seen on any Apple forum before (They've all been Apple users since the War of Jenkins' Ear, but this latest outrage is sending them weeping into the welcoming arms of Microsoft) inundate every thread with their very carefully prepared talking points, and won't be deflected no matter how they're debunked.
So thanks, guys: your bitching and moaning performs a valuable public service. I know now I can proceed with confidence, since if there were any [I]real[/I] problems they would have gradually revealed themselves over a more believable timespan and been mentioned by people who have actually used Apple products at some time in their lives.
Actually, you should state more accurately in the case of Final Cut Pro X that Apple killed Final Cut Pro, and that for most editing professionals - myself included - Final Cut Pro is DEAD.
No amount of updates will recover the thousands of professional editors who've abandoned Apple's Final Cut Pro after Apple abandoned them.
I repeat, "Final Cut Pro - as foolishly re-imagined by Apple as Final Cut Pro X - is DEAD. Apple killed Final Cut Pro."
The people who are complaining about the things left out of the new version of iWork are users of the old version, the older version being available for purchase is a lot less of an issue here. It's somewhat different to FCP7 being taken off the shelves when FCPX came out as post facilities often need to add seats.
What happens if you need to collaborate on a Pages 4.3 document with someone who did not have the old iWork previously installed? That person would need to find a friend with the old iWork and sideload a copy.
What happens if you need to collaborate on a Pages 4.3 document with someone who did not have the old iWork previously installed? That person would need to find a friend with the old iWork and sideload a copy.
They could just use your installer discs, for one. There's no serial for iWork, if I recall correctly (or was that iLife?).
The claim that there's no problem because you can always keep the old versions ignores the facts that (a) there's no way to tell how long those versions wil continue to work, given changes in OS X; (b) there's no easy way to get them for new machines ; and (c) if you have the new version on your system at all, there's no way to make the old one the default app to open Keynote (Pages, Numbers) files.
These are not trivial issues, and responses along the lines of "shut up, suck it up and go with the flow" that I see on this thread are not really appropriate answers to them.
Those versions will continue to work as they do now. Nothing is forcing you to update your software or your OS. Any professional in video will tell you to exercise great caution before updating ANY piece of software that is business-essential. This is true for every industry.
That said, YES there is an easy way to get them for new machines. I did an erase and install for my MacBook Pro when updating to Mavericks. I imported my Applications folder during the setup process from my Time Machine drive. All of my apps came in beautifully. Including the legacy Final Cut Studio 3 and FCPX, and yes iWork '09. After installing Mavericks they were nicely in my dock as they have always been, and in my Applications folder (where I am more likely to go before the Launchpad anyway).
Also, YES you can set the old versions as the default. Simply choose one of your .pages files in the Finder and right-click, then choose Get Info (or the shortcut, cmd-I) and pick the application you'd like it to open in. Right under that, click the option to open all documents like this one in that same default application. Repeat this for one .numbers file and one .key file and you're done! Simple.
I've been actively participating in the Apple Discussion Forums the past couple days, and I'm shocked at how childish some users can be. The guy who's compiling the list is a level 7 user, and he's been trash talking Apple on his thread, adding hopelessness to the already heated discussion by drawing conclusions about how Apple has abandoned its users and is intentionally damaging their data, AND HE HASN'T EVEN USED THE NEW VERSION! Of course if you try to jump in as the calm voice of reason the angry mob will thrash you. It's obvious they just want to whine and cry like babies.
Here's the kicker. THERE IS NO DATA LOSS!!!
This whole hubbub is for nothing. Sure, features have been removed. But the heat of the argument is over alleged data loss. All one has to do, even without Time Machine, is go to Flie > Revert to > Browse All Versions and you can restore the pre 5.0 version from within 5.0, close it (don't save!) and all is right again. You can delete 5.0 from your system and go back to using '09 with joy and happiness. Once Apple restores all the missing features, which they will do if proper, mature feedback is given, then you can upgrade.
The moral of the story is, test before upgrading, especially if business is on the line, and for goodness sake backup, backup, backup. Oh, and don't be a whiny baby when things go wrong. This is software and it will always have bugs and glitches. ALWAYS.
Good you brought this up. Nonetheless an “upgrade” that loses features is not a brilliant move, especially when they are useful features.
I wonder to what extent this is a merging of the iOS and Mac codebases – there are some things that are much harder to do with a purely finger interface. For example: in Keynote on the Mac, you can edit an object in a group by double-click selecting it. If the group is part of an animation, that means you can tweak details of an animation easily. On iOS (this is all before the update, which I haven’t seen yet), there was no interface to edit a member of a group, meaning you had to ungroup, edit the object, regroup, then create the animation again – all cumbersome and awkward with the finger interface.
To really get seamless similarity between iOS, cloud and Mac versions, this sort of interface inconsistency needs to be fixed.
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
They will move forward, don't worry. The question is how many are eventually fed up with Apple and go elsewhere. Apple is now replicating some of the mistakes that Microsoft used to make. Interesting to see where this is going to lead to.
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
You know, you're right! As a software developer for 26 years I'd just realised that when we changed our software, the software changed. I'd missed that before.
Armed with this insight, the next time a software company announces an application update I won't expect it to be the same as the previous version.
Well, it's good to know that I can reject all of this agonizing as pure Bull$hit, sight unseen. By now the hallmarks of a (originally just Micro$haft but now Samscum and general Fandroid) disinformation campaign are painfully obvious. Seconds after any Apple product announcement—long before anybody could possibly know anything about the subject—hundreds of newbies, never seen on any Apple forum before (They've all been Apple users since the War of Jenkins' Ear, but this latest outrage is sending them weeping into the welcoming arms of Microsoft) inundate every thread with their very carefully prepared talking points, and won't be deflected no matter how they're debunked.
So thanks, guys: your bitching and moaning performs a valuable public service. I know now I can proceed with confidence, since if there were any real problems they would have gradually revealed themselves over a more believable timespan and been mentioned by people who have actually used Apple products at some time in their lives.
As Sherlock Holmes observed, "It is an error to theorise in advance of the facts".
Out of interest, for those who think that Pages 5 is just fine and/or it will be fine when Apple restore at least some of what they took out, what features must it have to justify being called Pages?
?You could say that to open a Pages '09 document means it must be Pages, but what if all that you saw in your newly opened document was simply the extracted text placed in a single block and any images removed? I exaggerate to show one one end of a possible spectrum.
What level of functionality loss would cause to you ask "How can they call this Pages"?
?I ask out of genuine interest as I'm trying to gauge whether Apple may restore these features. If most people here can create the documents they need with what Pages now offers then that's great for you but I suspect that I will be waiting in vain for what Apple used to provide.
Want to earn money & help your family without going anywhere.........I make $60h - $92h...how? I'm working online now its ur turn to make money at home...................... Buzz55.?om
Those complaining about the new iWork suite ought to try using the office suites on Android. Then they really would have something to complain about.
I think we are just experiencing the social aspects of how something fairly insignificant gets magnified and blown out of proportion and blasted through media articles because they have nothing better to do.
I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time.
I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time.
There's a world of difference between "I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time." and "I'm not worried about it. I can use it just fine."
I agree with you, but the solution of using something else instead is very meaningful, as in it's kind of a cockup, but since I don't need to use it I'm fine. : )
I imagine that, after all this hubbub, at least some of the functionality will be restored eventually. For the time being, I'm sticking with '09.
But another thing I noticed, and have not seen any comments on, is the issue of file size -- both the apps themselves and the files they generate. The new iWork and iLife apps are huge compared to their predecessors -- 2 or 3 times the size, at least. Why? And more importantly, the files that Pages 5.0 (for example) generates are unnecessarily large, wasting disk space and making them harder to share easily. I opened a simple, <20 KB Word doc in Pages 5.0, and when I saved it in Pages format, it was almost 500 KB! What on earth for? Even when I saved it in Pages '09 format, it was still around 200 KB. I realize that disk space is not as much of an issue on PCs nowadays, but it is on phones and tablets, and when sending by email, etc. I think Apple could work a little more on using that space more efficiently.
There's a world of difference between "I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time." and "I'm not worried about it. I can use it just fine."
I agree with you, but the solution of using something else instead is very meaningful, as in it's kind of a cockup, but since I don't need to use it I'm fine. : )
If I was using iWork 09, then I would just continue to use iWork 09, If I was using Office, then I could continue to use Office, etc. But I'm not STUPID enough to switch to Windows because of a temporary issue with a new version of an app that Apple's giving away for FREEE......
The whole thing is blown out of proportion and some people get caught up in it.
But obviously, so far, the numbers of people adopting Windows 8.1 aren't going up that fast. I wonder why?
Comments
Yeah, but at least Apple isn't screwing up like Microsoft's Vista fiasco. I guess some people don't remember people going backwards in droves even months after the update and just bypassing it. That didn't seem to stop them using Windows.
Vista was poorly received, but at least people could still buy XP until MS fixed things with windows 7. Similarly MS still makes Win 7 available for people who don't care for windows 8. Is the older iWork still available for purchase?
Vista was poorly received, but at least people could still buy XP until MS fixed things up with windows 7. Similarly MS still makes Win 7 available for people who don't care for windows 8. Is the older iWork still available for purchase?
The people who are complaining about the things left out of the new version of iWork are users of the old version, the older version being available for purchase is a lot less of an issue here. It's somewhat different to FCP7 being taken off the shelves when FCPX came out as post facilities often need to add seats.
People coming to iWork fresh will either work with what's in the current version or not - they'll go to another product that has the features they need. Users of the old version should just stick to it, and go back to their backed up files if necessary.
It is not change itself that is the problem, it is that iWork is downgraded and no longer functional for a large proportion of users.
There is no file upgrade path for those who used power features of '09.
iWork '09 cannot be got on the App Store.
The OS upgrade to Mavericks is good, but the iWork migration has bombed for many. Posters above should distinguish between an OS upgrade and an application upgrade. They are very different.
For those who used only basic Pages etc functions, and did not use and do not miss the deleted functions, that is great for you. No problem with this group of users, and no doubt iCloud and iOS compatibility is terrific for those who do simple word processing.
However, the reaction by more intense and power users to the new iWork, especially on the Apple discussion sites, shows that a large group of users is extremely dissatisfied. Work flow is disrupted and businesses affected. Yes they can go back to the '09 verision but for how long? Apple support is broken and Apple are silent.
It would be helpful if users of more basic functionality and iCloud/iOS iWork would recognise that this problem is not about them, it is about more advanced users who were formerly catered for by iWork '09 but no longer are. Instead of slagging of genuine problems and imposing your views on other types of users, recognise that you are one of a spectrum of user types, as are we. All should be catered for as they previously were.
Thankyou.
So thanks, guys: your bitching and moaning performs a valuable public service. I know now I can proceed with confidence, since if there were any [I]real[/I] problems they would have gradually revealed themselves over a more believable timespan and been mentioned by people who have actually used Apple products at some time in their lives.
Actually, you should state more accurately in the case of Final Cut Pro X that Apple killed Final Cut Pro, and that for most editing professionals - myself included - Final Cut Pro is DEAD.
No amount of updates will recover the thousands of professional editors who've abandoned Apple's Final Cut Pro after Apple abandoned them.
I repeat, "Final Cut Pro - as foolishly re-imagined by Apple as Final Cut Pro X - is DEAD. Apple killed Final Cut Pro."
The people who are complaining about the things left out of the new version of iWork are users of the old version, the older version being available for purchase is a lot less of an issue here. It's somewhat different to FCP7 being taken off the shelves when FCPX came out as post facilities often need to add seats.
What happens if you need to collaborate on a Pages 4.3 document with someone who did not have the old iWork previously installed? That person would need to find a friend with the old iWork and sideload a copy.
What happens if you need to collaborate on a Pages 4.3 document with someone who did not have the old iWork previously installed? That person would need to find a friend with the old iWork and sideload a copy.
They could just use your installer discs, for one. There's no serial for iWork, if I recall correctly (or was that iLife?).
They could just use your installer discs, for one. There's no serial for iWork, if I recall correctly (or was that iLife?).
Never was one for iLife, but there used to be one with iWork (phased out with… ’06, I think it was).
Those versions will continue to work as they do now. Nothing is forcing you to update your software or your OS. Any professional in video will tell you to exercise great caution before updating ANY piece of software that is business-essential. This is true for every industry.
That said, YES there is an easy way to get them for new machines. I did an erase and install for my MacBook Pro when updating to Mavericks. I imported my Applications folder during the setup process from my Time Machine drive. All of my apps came in beautifully. Including the legacy Final Cut Studio 3 and FCPX, and yes iWork '09. After installing Mavericks they were nicely in my dock as they have always been, and in my Applications folder (where I am more likely to go before the Launchpad anyway).
Also, YES you can set the old versions as the default. Simply choose one of your .pages files in the Finder and right-click, then choose Get Info (or the shortcut, cmd-I) and pick the application you'd like it to open in. Right under that, click the option to open all documents like this one in that same default application. Repeat this for one .numbers file and one .key file and you're done! Simple.
I've been actively participating in the Apple Discussion Forums the past couple days, and I'm shocked at how childish some users can be. The guy who's compiling the list is a level 7 user, and he's been trash talking Apple on his thread, adding hopelessness to the already heated discussion by drawing conclusions about how Apple has abandoned its users and is intentionally damaging their data, AND HE HASN'T EVEN USED THE NEW VERSION! Of course if you try to jump in as the calm voice of reason the angry mob will thrash you. It's obvious they just want to whine and cry like babies.
Here's the kicker. THERE IS NO DATA LOSS!!!
This whole hubbub is for nothing. Sure, features have been removed. But the heat of the argument is over alleged data loss. All one has to do, even without Time Machine, is go to Flie > Revert to > Browse All Versions and you can restore the pre 5.0 version from within 5.0, close it (don't save!) and all is right again. You can delete 5.0 from your system and go back to using '09 with joy and happiness. Once Apple restores all the missing features, which they will do if proper, mature feedback is given, then you can upgrade.
The moral of the story is, test before upgrading, especially if business is on the line, and for goodness sake backup, backup, backup. Oh, and don't be a whiny baby when things go wrong. This is software and it will always have bugs and glitches. ALWAYS.
Good you brought this up. Nonetheless an “upgrade” that loses features is not a brilliant move, especially when they are useful features.
I wonder to what extent this is a merging of the iOS and Mac codebases – there are some things that are much harder to do with a purely finger interface. For example: in Keynote on the Mac, you can edit an object in a group by double-click selecting it. If the group is part of an animation, that means you can tweak details of an animation easily. On iOS (this is all before the update, which I haven’t seen yet), there was no interface to edit a member of a group, meaning you had to ungroup, edit the object, regroup, then create the animation again – all cumbersome and awkward with the finger interface.
To really get seamless similarity between iOS, cloud and Mac versions, this sort of interface inconsistency needs to be fixed.
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
They will move forward, don't worry. The question is how many are eventually fed up with Apple and go elsewhere. Apple is now replicating some of the mistakes that Microsoft used to make. Interesting to see where this is going to lead to.
So tired of people that have no idea how to move forward. You can't change things and change nothing at the same time.
You know, you're right! As a software developer for 26 years I'd just realised that when we changed our software, the software changed. I'd missed that before.
Armed with this insight, the next time a software company announces an application update I won't expect it to be the same as the previous version.
Well, it's good to know that I can reject all of this agonizing as pure Bull$hit, sight unseen. By now the hallmarks of a (originally just Micro$haft but now Samscum and general Fandroid) disinformation campaign are painfully obvious. Seconds after any Apple product announcement—long before anybody could possibly know anything about the subject—hundreds of newbies, never seen on any Apple forum before (They've all been Apple users since the War of Jenkins' Ear, but this latest outrage is sending them weeping into the welcoming arms of Microsoft) inundate every thread with their very carefully prepared talking points, and won't be deflected no matter how they're debunked.
So thanks, guys: your bitching and moaning performs a valuable public service. I know now I can proceed with confidence, since if there were any real problems they would have gradually revealed themselves over a more believable timespan and been mentioned by people who have actually used Apple products at some time in their lives.
As Sherlock Holmes observed, "It is an error to theorise in advance of the facts".
Out of interest, for those who think that Pages 5 is just fine and/or it will be fine when Apple restore at least some of what they took out, what features must it have to justify being called Pages?
?You could say that to open a Pages '09 document means it must be Pages, but what if all that you saw in your newly opened document was simply the extracted text placed in a single block and any images removed? I exaggerate to show one one end of a possible spectrum.
What level of functionality loss would cause to you ask "How can they call this Pages"?
?I ask out of genuine interest as I'm trying to gauge whether Apple may restore these features. If most people here can create the documents they need with what Pages now offers then that's great for you but I suspect that I will be waiting in vain for what Apple used to provide.
Want to earn money & help your family without going anywhere.........I make $60h - $92h...how? I'm working online now its ur turn to make money at home...................... Buzz55.?om
Just open Home tab nd make money
Those complaining about the new iWork suite ought to try using the office suites on Android. Then they really would have something to complain about.
I think we are just experiencing the social aspects of how something fairly insignificant gets magnified and blown out of proportion and blasted through media articles because they have nothing better to do.
I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time.
I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time.
There's a world of difference between "I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time." and "I'm not worried about it. I can use it just fine."
I agree with you, but the solution of using something else instead is very meaningful, as in it's kind of a cockup, but since I don't need to use it I'm fine. : )
I imagine that, after all this hubbub, at least some of the functionality will be restored eventually. For the time being, I'm sticking with '09.
But another thing I noticed, and have not seen any comments on, is the issue of file size -- both the apps themselves and the files they generate. The new iWork and iLife apps are huge compared to their predecessors -- 2 or 3 times the size, at least. Why? And more importantly, the files that Pages 5.0 (for example) generates are unnecessarily large, wasting disk space and making them harder to share easily. I opened a simple, <20 KB Word doc in Pages 5.0, and when I saved it in Pages format, it was almost 500 KB! What on earth for? Even when I saved it in Pages '09 format, it was still around 200 KB. I realize that disk space is not as much of an issue on PCs nowadays, but it is on phones and tablets, and when sending by email, etc. I think Apple could work a little more on using that space more efficiently.
There's a world of difference between "I'm not worried about it. Plenty of OS X/iOS apps to use in the mean time." and "I'm not worried about it. I can use it just fine."
I agree with you, but the solution of using something else instead is very meaningful, as in it's kind of a cockup, but since I don't need to use it I'm fine. : )
If I was using iWork 09, then I would just continue to use iWork 09, If I was using Office, then I could continue to use Office, etc. But I'm not STUPID enough to switch to Windows because of a temporary issue with a new version of an app that Apple's giving away for FREEE......
The whole thing is blown out of proportion and some people get caught up in it.
But obviously, so far, the numbers of people adopting Windows 8.1 aren't going up that fast. I wonder why?