to me this sounds fair. No making calls that will annoy the heck out of folks etc. None of that 'the signals will bring down the plane' stuff will be possible if the device is in airplane mode.
But I would add a caveat that no headphones or audible noise can be going on during the safety briefings. Sure you can ignore it if you want but you won't have other sounds going into your ears or interfere with others hearing it. I'm sure you can do without the pew, pew, pew from your game for 2 minutes.
and a caveat that crew can at any time that it is deemed necessary for the safety of passengers require that all items be put away in the seat back. Such times may include if the plane is entering an area of heavy weather or turbulence where passengers may need to hear and respond to crew instructions in a matter of seconds and so on. And if the crew, in such a situation, instructs passengers to put the stuff away and the passenger refuses, the crew has the legal right to confiscate whatever it is for the remainder of the flight and return it to the passenger after the plane is at the gate. (i.e. rule 10 but with a firm declaration of the consequences of not following instructions) It is likely to rarely be needed but the safety of passengers including the one that might be hit in the head of your iPad flies through the air is more important than you being a douche etc.
I've always put my in airplane mode prior to this and they still told me to turn it off.
Without fail Every time.
That's because the regulation was that it had be to be off. Which is part the change. Doesn't have to be powered off but has to be in airplane mode and not free sitting on a tray etc during takeoff and landing where it could fall.
I guess "voice communications" are whatever a flight attendant sees that looks like someone making a phone call, and a cell phone is whatever device being used in that case.
It will likely be firmly defined to anything where you are talking out. into a phone, into an iPad with FaceTime etc. The idea is that you aren't being a jerk to fellow passengers by making noise.
Oh, and what is FaceTime over WiFi (I did that on Delta last spring)... is that "voice communications" and therefore banned on iPhones, but allowed on iPads and MacBooks?
Or do they mean ?cellular telephone calls'?
Things will get worse before they get better.
Guy next to me tried to make a FaceTime call out of MSP last week. I ended it with an uncontrollable fit of coughing.
A) Gogo's terms of service prohibit the use of streaming apps, Skype calls and the like because they chew up a disproportionate amount of limited bandwidth, and using them is a complete douche canoe move. Guy sounded like "Da Bears" skit from SNL, and it was either politely end his call with coughing, or throw my complimentary drink in his face.
Don't be THAT guy, alright? You can iMessage or email like everyone else. If you need to look at their face while you converse, tell them to send you a picture.
"A flight's crew can instruct passengers to turn their devices off in rare instances, such as low-visibility."
Ok, either devices can interfere with operation of the aircraft or they can't. One the one hand the FAA is saying they can't, so go ahead an use them. But the statement above clearly says they think the devices can interfere. In cases of low visibility pilots are more reliant on their instruments and there's a chance your device could interfere with those instruments. Hm, I'd like to think that even on a clear, calm day, even if not needed, the pilot has his whole range of instruments functioning properly.
That said, I'm sure the rule is technically sound, just how do they expect flight crews to enforce it by any practical means. It takes a fraction of a second to see that a screen is off (of course, that's no guarantee the device is shut down), but how many seconds to verify that an active device is in flight mode...times how many people on the plan? So basically, this means that while the flight crew will make the required announcement, there will be absolutely no enforcement.
"A flight's crew can instruct passengers to turn their devices off in rare instances, such as low-visibility."
Ok, either devices can interfere with operation of the aircraft or they can't. One the one hand the FAA is saying they can't, so go ahead an use them. But the statement above clearly says they think the devices can interfere. In cases of low visibility pilots are more reliant on their instruments and there's a chance your device could interfere with those instruments. Hm, I'd like to think that even on a clear, calm day, even if not needed, the pilot has his whole range of instruments functioning properly.
That said, I'm sure the rule is technically sound, just how do they expect flight crews to enforce it by any practical means. It takes a fraction of a second to see that a screen is off (of course, that's no guarantee the device is shut down), but how many seconds to verify that an active device is in flight mode...times how many people on the plan? So basically, this means that while the flight crew will make the required announcement, there will be absolutely no enforcement.
This entire argument would be less hostile if the FAA would tell the truth about the use of these devices. The truth is:
1. Nobody really knows for sure if using a device can cause trouble on an airplane in flight.
2. So many pilots, and their regulators in the FAA are of the opinion that it would be best to not use these devices during the takeoff and landing phase of flight. just in case.
3. The likelihood of a device that is not transmitting can cause trouble is infinitesimally low.
4. The chance that a device which is transmitting (e.g., a cellphone conversation) is really low, but how would you like to be on the flight that crashed on takeoff due to a cellular transmission? That would make it 100% for you...wouldn't it? Want to find out the hard way?
5. The real (possible) problem has noting to do with the navigation. It has to do with the fact that almost all airliners today use flight controls that are controlled by computers which take inputs from the pilot's controls and convert them into electrical signals that, in turn activate the flight controls. That's the fear of those of us who are concerned.
6. Yes. All the wires are shielded. But are they shielded for all different types of inputs? No. Costs too much. And every RF transmission that crosses a wire (to shielded for that specific RF freq) has the potential to cause a voltage jump.
7. When the airplane is close to the ground there is a very limited time to do something about a pending crash caused by spurious flight control inputs.
8. I agree. It's really nice to be able to make calls at all times. That's what makes cellphones so darn useful. But is it really too much to ask that people refrain from transmitting for 15 minutes for takeoff and another 15 for landing? I mean...since the truth is that no one really, really knows for sure?
9. How would you like to lose your life because someone else on the plane though their conversation was so critical that it was more important than your life?
10. Someday this will no longer be a problem because an increasing number of planes will have optical circuitry instead of electrical. then the problem will become moot. (I think)
And I have to sympathize with all who are frustrated by the fact that each crew and each airline seems to treat the subject differently. Often is is airline policy to deal with the situation in a specific way (Airplane mode...v...Full off). Sometimes it is no more than an overcautious (and sometimes arrogant and hostile) lead flight attendant who makes the decision.
not a perfect system at all. But the facts are still the facts.
A few things: From the question: iPads further restrict a pilots visibility how?
When we land using instruments only, things like the compass can become very important. Think about this situation. Heavy clouds down to 300 feet, all is going great on a instrument landing, random power issue, instruments go down. All I have is my compass.
Then, the kicker, was on a check flight the other day and made a joke about this issue. My check pilot pulled out his iPhone and asked me to watch the compass, and wow, it spun about 5 degrees.
5 degrees is enough to put the above aircraft off the runway.
I agree, long shot, but is possible. The other item that has not been discussed much is all those phones in a bad landing are no longer phones, they become the thing that just knocked your 'I have to have my game going during landing' head. Just like the guy who is up to use the restroom is the guy that just took out a row of passengers. Does not happen often, but does happen, and as someone who travels a good amount, why not error on the side of safety.
Comments
Just imagine the cost of connecting to AT&T from 10000 feet...
Talk about out of network lol
But I would add a caveat that no headphones or audible noise can be going on during the safety briefings. Sure you can ignore it if you want but you won't have other sounds going into your ears or interfere with others hearing it. I'm sure you can do without the pew, pew, pew from your game for 2 minutes.
and a caveat that crew can at any time that it is deemed necessary for the safety of passengers require that all items be put away in the seat back. Such times may include if the plane is entering an area of heavy weather or turbulence where passengers may need to hear and respond to crew instructions in a matter of seconds and so on. And if the crew, in such a situation, instructs passengers to put the stuff away and the passenger refuses, the crew has the legal right to confiscate whatever it is for the remainder of the flight and return it to the passenger after the plane is at the gate. (i.e. rule 10 but with a firm declaration of the consequences of not following instructions) It is likely to rarely be needed but the safety of passengers including the one that might be hit in the head of your iPad flies through the air is more important than you being a douche etc.
http://hypervocal.com/entertainment/2013/virgin-america-safety-video/
I've always put my in airplane mode prior to this and they still told me to turn it off.
Without fail Every time.
That's because the regulation was that it had be to be off. Which is part the change. Doesn't have to be powered off but has to be in airplane mode and not free sitting on a tray etc during takeoff and landing where it could fall.
I guess "voice communications" are whatever a flight attendant sees that looks like someone making a phone call, and a cell phone is whatever device being used in that case.
It will likely be firmly defined to anything where you are talking out. into a phone, into an iPad with FaceTime etc. The idea is that you aren't being a jerk to fellow passengers by making noise.
Guy next to me tried to make a FaceTime call out of MSP last week. I ended it with an uncontrollable fit of coughing.
A) Gogo's terms of service prohibit the use of streaming apps, Skype calls and the like because they chew up a disproportionate amount of limited bandwidth, and using them is a complete douche canoe move.
Don't be THAT guy, alright? You can iMessage or email like everyone else. If you need to look at their face while you converse, tell them to send you a picture.
Ok, either devices can interfere with operation of the aircraft or they can't. One the one hand the FAA is saying they can't, so go ahead an use them. But the statement above clearly says they think the devices can interfere. In cases of low visibility pilots are more reliant on their instruments and there's a chance your device could interfere with those instruments. Hm, I'd like to think that even on a clear, calm day, even if not needed, the pilot has his whole range of instruments functioning properly.
That said, I'm sure the rule is technically sound, just how do they expect flight crews to enforce it by any practical means. It takes a fraction of a second to see that a screen is off (of course, that's no guarantee the device is shut down), but how many seconds to verify that an active device is in flight mode...times how many people on the plan? So basically, this means that while the flight crew will make the required announcement, there will be absolutely no enforcement.
"A flight's crew can instruct passengers to turn their devices off in rare instances, such as low-visibility."
Ok, either devices can interfere with operation of the aircraft or they can't. One the one hand the FAA is saying they can't, so go ahead an use them. But the statement above clearly says they think the devices can interfere. In cases of low visibility pilots are more reliant on their instruments and there's a chance your device could interfere with those instruments. Hm, I'd like to think that even on a clear, calm day, even if not needed, the pilot has his whole range of instruments functioning properly.
That said, I'm sure the rule is technically sound, just how do they expect flight crews to enforce it by any practical means. It takes a fraction of a second to see that a screen is off (of course, that's no guarantee the device is shut down), but how many seconds to verify that an active device is in flight mode...times how many people on the plan? So basically, this means that while the flight crew will make the required announcement, there will be absolutely no enforcement.
This entire argument would be less hostile if the FAA would tell the truth about the use of these devices. The truth is:
1. Nobody really knows for sure if using a device can cause trouble on an airplane in flight.
2. So many pilots, and their regulators in the FAA are of the opinion that it would be best to not use these devices during the takeoff and landing phase of flight. just in case.
3. The likelihood of a device that is not transmitting can cause trouble is infinitesimally low.
4. The chance that a device which is transmitting (e.g., a cellphone conversation) is really low, but how would you like to be on the flight that crashed on takeoff due to a cellular transmission? That would make it 100% for you...wouldn't it? Want to find out the hard way?
5. The real (possible) problem has noting to do with the navigation. It has to do with the fact that almost all airliners today use flight controls that are controlled by computers which take inputs from the pilot's controls and convert them into electrical signals that, in turn activate the flight controls. That's the fear of those of us who are concerned.
6. Yes. All the wires are shielded. But are they shielded for all different types of inputs? No. Costs too much. And every RF transmission that crosses a wire (to shielded for that specific RF freq) has the potential to cause a voltage jump.
7. When the airplane is close to the ground there is a very limited time to do something about a pending crash caused by spurious flight control inputs.
8. I agree. It's really nice to be able to make calls at all times. That's what makes cellphones so darn useful. But is it really too much to ask that people refrain from transmitting for 15 minutes for takeoff and another 15 for landing? I mean...since the truth is that no one really, really knows for sure?
9. How would you like to lose your life because someone else on the plane though their conversation was so critical that it was more important than your life?
10. Someday this will no longer be a problem because an increasing number of planes will have optical circuitry instead of electrical. then the problem will become moot. (I think)
And I have to sympathize with all who are frustrated by the fact that each crew and each airline seems to treat the subject differently. Often is is airline policy to deal with the situation in a specific way (Airplane mode...v...Full off). Sometimes it is no more than an overcautious (and sometimes arrogant and hostile) lead flight attendant who makes the decision.
not a perfect system at all. But the facts are still the facts.
A few things: From the question: iPads further restrict a pilots visibility how?
When we land using instruments only, things like the compass can become very important. Think about this situation. Heavy clouds down to 300 feet, all is going great on a instrument landing, random power issue, instruments go down. All I have is my compass.
Then, the kicker, was on a check flight the other day and made a joke about this issue. My check pilot pulled out his iPhone and asked me to watch the compass, and wow, it spun about 5 degrees.
5 degrees is enough to put the above aircraft off the runway.
I agree, long shot, but is possible. The other item that has not been discussed much is all those phones in a bad landing are no longer phones, they become the thing that just knocked your 'I have to have my game going during landing' head. Just like the guy who is up to use the restroom is the guy that just took out a row of passengers. Does not happen often, but does happen, and as someone who travels a good amount, why not error on the side of safety.
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