Well, I have two HDDs that are both less than 2 years old and one works and one doesn't. Both were purchased new and both are external. So, I honestly don't know what else to tell you other than that.
You mention that they're external. External drives are often squeezed for margins, and the cause of death is often something other than the drive itself. It's not that I've never ended up with a dead hard drive, but when it comes to externals, I see a lot of dead firewire bridges and broken power bricks. In some cases if it's a single drive without a specialized controller, you can mount the bare drive. Some people are bad about backups, and in those cases it has worked. It won't work with certain things like Lacie big disks or some of Western Digital's similar solutions. An ssd could suffer the same fate in that case. Problems with ssd death are often things like poor garbage collection or controllers. The sandforce failures are probably the most well known.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
Oh gosh I loved my 17" Macbook, I used it for Logic mostly. I was really disapointed when they discontinued it. Oh well, my Macbook Air connected to a NEC monitor is more then adequate now for my music and programming needs.
I use mine for the same stuff at times. It gets pretty hot to the touch, which irritates me. I also don't care for notebook keyboards. Old display was an NEC. I'm using one of these at the moment. They're great, but I think the older ones that used Hitachi panels were better. I do a lot of drawing, and a big uniform display helps with that. I'm surprised you know that many instruments. That is pretty awesome. I played piano for a number of years as a kid, and made it through some of the more complex pieces. I can still mentally parse piano music when listening to it, but I haven't played in years. If I can find a decent used baby grand I'll pick it up again. Even right now I have pandora set to play a mix of modern piano and violin. Pandora is silly though. It randomly goes from that into glitch mob songs for some reason. It's fun to imagine how some of the pieces were written by paying attention to the different melodies and the placement of sharps.
Guess which one I am, strings, blonde. Start is at 1:40, just fast forward, the rest isn't very interesting. Okay, you can clearly see me at 1:47, the violin is clearly not my choice of instrument though, so please forgive the mistakes for those with good ears.I have only been playing for less then 7 years. I didn't mention it before because I'm still in the beginning with it, please be kind.
How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.
How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.
I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.
The failures weren't due to the type of NAND either, which may explain why SSD manufacturers are shifting to cheaper NAND. If the main causes of failure are elsewhere, it doesn't matter. Still, I can't wait until NAND reaches today's HDD prices because there's no spin up/down, no mechanical noise, they are much faster and no chance of a single hard drop breaking the drive or leaving a drive in a cupboard for a while locking it up.
It'll be interesting to see how long the SSDs in the Mac Pros last.
Y'know, you only have to sit with your legs that far apart when you play the cello. Salman Rushdie looked like he was having a great time conducting.
What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet..
What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet..
Blah... I want to hear you play a violin adaptation of Rondeau, just for the silly masterpiece theater reference.
Relic, best wished for a speedy and complete recovery.
When my wife's hair grew back after cemo it was much darker, thicker and all the white hairs were gone.
I have no musical talent or ability and am always envious of those that do.
The other day of the Crucial website I noticed that their memory finder now lists the late 2013 Mac Pro. 8GB sticks are $115, 16GB $220.
I'm really happy to hear that your wife recovered and thank you for the kinds words. It was my mother who forced me to take up piano when I was 6, thankfully I enjoyed it enough to continue and learn other instruments on the way. You should hear my rendition of, "Some Where Over The Rainbow" on my Ukelele. My daughter is learning the Cello at the moment and I really miss playing with her after dinner.
I have many silly hats that I like to where now, I have a Where's Waldo cap, a bear cap with ears,a floppy bunny ear cap, etc. come to think about it someone should wash these things in the near future for me. My hair is starting to come back a little but I still look like I'm in boot camp or a Sinead O'Connor groupy.
And if I ever learn to play the violin as well as you, I will get a tattoo of the robot devil from futurama with his solid gold fiddle.
Haaaa, funny story, I actually play along to that episode, my kids love it. Here is the sheet music for those who are also interested in playing along.
That data comes largely from enterprise users. For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability. Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.
A recent article states:
""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."
I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon. The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.
That data comes largely from enterprise users. For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability. Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.
A recent article states:
""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."
I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon. The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.
But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.
But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.
Smart doesn't always give you much of a warning. They can still die abruptly. With SMART you can sometimes see an increase in remapped sectors and determine it's time to retire the drive. If SMART status actually fails, you may have little to no time. With hard drives I've seen it both ways, and in either case the process is roughly the same. You should have a backup for your data, and you will experience downtime.
But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
Some of the early drives had real technical problems not specifically related to the flash chips. Early adopter problems if you will. I'm not sure if it is due to Anobit or other vendors but Apple seems to be doing extremely well with its SSD implementations.
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Abrupt stops are bad for just about anything. Ever seen a car after hitting a bridge abutment. Now you may say what does that have to do with this discussion, little other than there are numerous ways for a workstation to come to a fast stop.
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.
As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.
In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.
Some of the early drives had real technical problems not specifically related to the flash chips. Early adopter problems if you will. I'm not sure if it is due to Anobit or other vendors but Apple seems to be doing extremely well with its SSD implementations.
Abrupt stops are bad for just about anything. Ever seen a car after hitting a bridge abutment. Now you may say what does that have to do with this discussion, little other than there are numerous ways for a workstation to come to a fast stop.
As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.
In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.
I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.
I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.
CPUs already have their own form of memory. It only looks at ram on a cache miss. What parts do you expect to remain swappable under such circumstances? I think you're completely wrong on what they may have gotten wrong with this machine. A machine requires specific things, such as ability to access storage, output display data, and crunch numbers. If something is wrong with this one, it's that performance is unlikely to be in line with its asking price, especially at the high and low end of its range. Manufacturing a ram tray concept doesn't really solve any of the problems you put forth before. It's just a weird way to weave your own design philosophy as an extension of what you think Apple will build. That makes little sense, even if it is entirely possible that what they do produce will not align well with your needs.
I caught an interesting announcement someplace in the last day or two from Intel. The have the intention of integrating RAM into some of their many core processors. In this case they specifically mentioned XEON Phi but it is applicable to other XEONs. The RAM can be used as cache of or fast system RAM. This is sorta like the RAM in the Iris +.
The other interesting thing is that a Xeon Phi well be delivered that can act as a system processor. The interesting thing here is that a Mac Pro could end up having some 60 odd cores in the future. Intel has had a few interesting announcements at the Super Computing Conference this year. I'm still of the opinion that Apple knew exactly what it was doing when it shrunk the Pro down. I can see the Mac Pro becoming immensely more powerful by 2015.
CPUs already have their own form of memory. It only looks at ram on a cache miss. What parts do you expect to remain swappable under such circumstances? I think you're completely wrong on what they may have gotten wrong with this machine. A machine requires specific things, such as ability to access storage, output display data, and crunch numbers. If something is wrong with this one, it's that performance is unlikely to be in line with its asking price, especially at the high and low end of its range. Manufacturing a ram tray concept doesn't really solve any of the problems you put forth before. It's just a weird way to weave your own design philosophy as an extension of what you think Apple will build. That makes little sense, even if it is entirely possible that what they do produce will not align well with your needs.
Comments
Well, I have two HDDs that are both less than 2 years old and one works and one doesn't. Both were purchased new and both are external. So, I honestly don't know what else to tell you other than that.
You mention that they're external. External drives are often squeezed for margins, and the cause of death is often something other than the drive itself. It's not that I've never ended up with a dead hard drive, but when it comes to externals, I see a lot of dead firewire bridges and broken power bricks. In some cases if it's a single drive without a specialized controller, you can mount the bare drive. Some people are bad about backups, and in those cases it has worked. It won't work with certain things like Lacie big disks or some of Western Digital's similar solutions. An ssd could suffer the same fate in that case. Problems with ssd death are often things like poor garbage collection or controllers. The sandforce failures are probably the most well known.
Oh gosh I loved my 17" Macbook, I used it for Logic mostly. I was really disapointed when they discontinued it. Oh well, my Macbook Air connected to a NEC monitor is more then adequate now for my music and programming needs.
I use mine for the same stuff at times. It gets pretty hot to the touch, which irritates me. I also don't care for notebook keyboards. Old display was an NEC. I'm using one of these at the moment. They're great, but I think the older ones that used Hitachi panels were better. I do a lot of drawing, and a big uniform display helps with that. I'm surprised you know that many instruments. That is pretty awesome. I played piano for a number of years as a kid, and made it through some of the more complex pieces. I can still mentally parse piano music when listening to it, but I haven't played in years. If I can find a decent used baby grand I'll pick it up again. Even right now I have pandora set to play a mix of modern piano and violin. Pandora is silly though. It randomly goes from that into glitch mob songs for some reason. It's fun to imagine how some of the pieces were written by paying attention to the different melodies and the placement of sharps.
Guess which one I am, strings, blonde. Start is at 1:40, just fast forward, the rest isn't very interesting. Okay, you can clearly see me at 1:47, the violin is clearly not my choice of instrument though, so please forgive the mistakes for those with good ears.I have only been playing for less then 7 years. I didn't mention it before because I'm still in the beginning with it, please be kind.
How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.
How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.
I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.
I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.
I hope you make it through treatment.
Y'know, you only have to sit with your legs that far apart when you play the cello.
Some data centers even with SLC have reported failure rates only slightly better than would be seen with HDDs:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923-6.html
The failures weren't due to the type of NAND either, which may explain why SSD manufacturers are shifting to cheaper NAND. If the main causes of failure are elsewhere, it doesn't matter. Still, I can't wait until NAND reaches today's HDD prices because there's no spin up/down, no mechanical noise, they are much faster and no chance of a single hard drop breaking the drive or leaving a drive in a cupboard for a while locking it up.
It'll be interesting to see how long the SSDs in the Mac Pros last.
Y'know, you only have to sit with your legs that far apart when you play the cello.
What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet..
What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet..
Blah... I want to hear you play a violin adaptation of Rondeau, just for the silly masterpiece theater reference.
I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.
Relic, best wished for a speedy and complete recovery.
When my wife's hair grew back after cemo it was much darker, thicker and all the white hairs were gone.
I have no musical talent or ability and am always envious of those that do.
The other day of the Crucial website I noticed that their memory finder now lists the late 2013 Mac Pro. 8GB sticks are $115, 16GB $220.
Blah... I want to hear you play a violin adaptation of Rondeau, just for the silly masterpiece theater reference.
I tell you what, if I get out of here I will personally record you an entire album of Relic's greatest hits, with out the stockings.
Relic, best wished for a speedy and complete recovery.
When my wife's hair grew back after cemo it was much darker, thicker and all the white hairs were gone.
I have no musical talent or ability and am always envious of those that do.
The other day of the Crucial website I noticed that their memory finder now lists the late 2013 Mac Pro. 8GB sticks are $115, 16GB $220.
I'm really happy to hear that your wife recovered and thank you for the kinds words. It was my mother who forced me to take up piano when I was 6, thankfully I enjoyed it enough to continue and learn other instruments on the way. You should hear my rendition of, "Some Where Over The Rainbow" on my Ukelele. My daughter is learning the Cello at the moment and I really miss playing with her after dinner.
I have many silly hats that I like to where now, I have a Where's Waldo cap, a bear cap with ears,a floppy bunny ear cap, etc. come to think about it someone should wash these things in the near future for me. My hair is starting to come back a little but I still look like I'm in boot camp or a Sinead O'Connor groupy.
I tell you what, if I get out of here I will personally record you an entire album of Relic's greatest hits, with out the stockings.
And if I ever learn to play the violin as well as you, I will get a tattoo of the robot devil from futurama with his solid gold fiddle.
And if I ever learn to play the violin as well as you, I will get a tattoo of the robot devil from futurama with his solid gold fiddle.
Haaaa, funny story, I actually play along to that episode, my kids love it. Here is the sheet music for those who are also interested in playing along.
Haaaa, funny story, I actually play along to that episode, my kids love it.
Do you also perform backup vocals?
Edit: Damn it. I downloaded that sheet music. Now I want to learn to play the violin.
Some data centers even with SLC have reported failure rates only slightly better than would be seen with HDDs:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923-6.html
That data comes largely from enterprise users. For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability. Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.
A recent article states:
""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242367/SSDs_i_do_i_die_as_Linus_Torvalds_just_discovered?taxonomyId=234&pageNumber=2
I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon. The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.
That data comes largely from enterprise users. For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability. Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.
A recent article states:
""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242367/SSDs_i_do_i_die_as_Linus_Torvalds_just_discovered?taxonomyId=234&pageNumber=2
I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon. The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.
But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.
But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.
Smart doesn't always give you much of a warning. They can still die abruptly. With SMART you can sometimes see an increase in remapped sectors and determine it's time to retire the drive. If SMART status actually fails, you may have little to no time. With hard drives I've seen it both ways, and in either case the process is roughly the same. You should have a backup for your data, and you will experience downtime.
As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.
In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.
Some of the early drives had real technical problems not specifically related to the flash chips. Early adopter problems if you will. I'm not sure if it is due to Anobit or other vendors but Apple seems to be doing extremely well with its SSD implementations.
Abrupt stops are bad for just about anything. Ever seen a car after hitting a bridge abutment. Now you may say what does that have to do with this discussion, little other than there are numerous ways for a workstation to come to a fast stop.
As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.
In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.
I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.
I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.
CPUs already have their own form of memory. It only looks at ram on a cache miss. What parts do you expect to remain swappable under such circumstances? I think you're completely wrong on what they may have gotten wrong with this machine. A machine requires specific things, such as ability to access storage, output display data, and crunch numbers. If something is wrong with this one, it's that performance is unlikely to be in line with its asking price, especially at the high and low end of its range. Manufacturing a ram tray concept doesn't really solve any of the problems you put forth before. It's just a weird way to weave your own design philosophy as an extension of what you think Apple will build. That makes little sense, even if it is entirely possible that what they do produce will not align well with your needs.
The other interesting thing is that a Xeon Phi well be delivered that can act as a system processor. The interesting thing here is that a Mac Pro could end up having some 60 odd cores in the future. Intel has had a few interesting announcements at the Super Computing Conference this year. I'm still of the opinion that Apple knew exactly what it was doing when it shrunk the Pro down. I can see the Mac Pro becoming immensely more powerful by 2015.