AT&T CEO says smartphone subsidies must end as T-Mobile sweetens iPhone deal

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 97
    Originally Posted by macarena View Post

    Despite what Tallest says

     

    No, it’s what surveys say.

     

    There is no way in the sane world Apple can justify its prices, except that they can get away with it. 


     

    That and, again, people feel the prices are accurate.

     

    I have wondered for long, why so many people have a totally unreasonable hatred towards Apple - and I think it is because the company makes extremely desirable products, which you really want to buy, but then sets prices that are very high - carrying huge profit margins.


     

    NO. THINGS THAT ARE GOOD COST MORE THAN THINGS THAT ARE BAD?!

     

    Some people buy the phone still, but there are a lot of people that ultimately don't buy it, because they just can't afford it.




    Not the phone, the plans.

     
    It is this bad karma that is accumulating as millions of people who hate Apple, and are just waiting for other technologies to become realistic alternatives. Once Android reaches that place, Apple will struggle - and that's the reason for Apple's aggression in the courts against Android.

     

    None of this is anywhere near true.

  • Reply 62 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

     

     

    Ah, no. Did you see this from another article? "Wireless customers who bring their own device, buy a handset without a subsidy, or have their current contract expire will see their monthly data share bill drop by an average of $15 per month, AT&T announced on Thursday."

     

    They're dropping current prices, then adding a 24-month payment plan on top for subsidized phones.

     

    Obviously the scheme is a win for AT&T, but it's not the total ripoff you make it out to be.


     

    Read the fine print. It isn't an across the board price drop. It's VERY specific to "DATA SHARE" prices only. 

     

    And it isn't a "$15 price drop". They're saying those will decrease "ON AVERAGE" by $15 a month. There's a HUGE difference between those two concepts. "$15 off" is not the same as "an average $15 savings". You get that?

     

     

    So for me, it's a non-starter. Please... I don't 'share' my data with anyone, except my own devices. So I'm not getting any discounts. Oh wait... But, with AT&T if I want to "share" my data plan with my own laptop or iPad via 'tethering" then I have to pay more *for each device* monthly. I see... and so NOW if I own that device outright, I will pay something less on average for each additional device than before?  

     

    It was (and still is) a rip-off to begin with!!

     

    My t-mobile service gives me unlimited talk/text, and 2.5GB of 4G/LTE a month (which throttles to 3G after that). I can tether my laptop or iPad as I like (it does count against the base data limit however). $60. Period. 

     

    I think I prefer that.

     

    Sorry to come off sounding like a t-mobile advertisement. I'm comparing from experience, and have been super happy with my decision to go with the service they're offering.

  • Reply 63 of 97
    There are many reason people choose to upgrade and/or switch carriers or phones; lost/stolen/broken phone, poor service on a particular network, monthly fees and plans, as well as just want the newest/fastest/coolest model.

    EVERYONE though agrees the phone companies are making plenty of profits and shouldn't be crying about subsidies. AT&T reported $3.8 BILLION and Verizon had $2.23 BILLION in the 3rd Quarter.

    And this is why I just switch from Verizon to Credo Mobile. I got a 32GB 5s for $50 less than either Verison or AT&T's subsidized phones, 25% off the UNLIMITED Data Plan, and Credo pays my early termination fee with Verizon.
  • Reply 64 of 97
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member

    Others have mentioned T-mobile and it is clear they are doing some serious damage out there with the Uncarrier initiative.

     

    Smartphones are pretty near saturation levels. Part of the reason things need to change is that even if someone has a subsidy line available for a new phone when discussing kids and phones, they will often take it for themselves or leave it unused while letting the child use an older phone because kids are a bit theft and drop prone. My children both have the iPhone 4. The wife the 4s and I'm on the 5. Everyone gets a little something when I decide to upgrade.

     

    There are also now little mini industries around the upkeep and repair of iPhones as another point to ponder. The wife got her phone wet this summer. A new battery and charge port and we were good to go for much less than a new phone.

     

    That said I recently added my sister to our plan. She knew what she wanted to spend and went into Best Buy and plunked down $50 for a "flat screen" Android phone. That was the full price which is pretty astonishing. I have no doubt that Apple is a better solution and a better phone. I'm not sure they are 1100% better though. I think at some point Apple should be able to still maintain their profit margins with a less expensive phone than the 5C.

  • Reply 65 of 97
    ipenipen Posts: 410member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post



    I wish Apple offered their own wireless service. I'd dump AT'n'T in a California minute.

    Yeah, that'll be a change of wireless landscape.  Apple should also tie all idevices to their own wireless service.  All others will get androids only.  Really something for Apple to think about.

  • Reply 66 of 97

    T-Mobile seems to be a good bet.  The merger breakup in addition to cash gave them a sweet roaming deal on AT&T.  T-Mobile has also gotten super aggressive with their resellers.  35orless has LIVE Plan it's a real game changer

  • Reply 67 of 97
    froodfrood Posts: 771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    The vast majority of consumers feels that this is fair pricing. VAST majority. They justify it because people pay it and WANT to pay it. 

     


     

    Then why is that VAST majority who feel that $850 is a fair price for an iPhone (as long as they only have to pay $199 of it) here complaining that they might actually have to pay $850 for it?  They don't "pay it and WANT to pay it."  They don't pay it and WANT AT&T to pay it for them. 

  • Reply 68 of 97
    Originally Posted by Frood View Post

    Then why is that VAST majority who feel that $850 is a fair price for an iPhone (as long as they only have to pay $199 of it) here complaining that they might actually have to pay $850 for it?


     

    I see two people. Three if you think this.

     

    Show me YOUR survey, then.

     

    They don't "pay it and WANT to pay it." They don't pay it and WANT AT&T to pay it for them. 


     

    Except for, you know, the extra $100 that THEY THEMSELVES ARE PAYING, which is the entire point here.

  • Reply 69 of 97
    ahmlcoahmlco Posts: 432member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Except for, you know, the extra $100 that THEY THEMSELVES ARE PAYING, which is the entire point here.


     

    You have a point in that people are in fact paying to buy iPhones. Frood, however, does have a point, in that while many people are buying phones with upgrades, many (including me) think Apple is overcharging for storage. That doesn't stop us from buying, but it doesn't make us all that happy with Apple, either.

     

    Apple should drop the upgrade price, because $100-$200 over the base price of the phone is more than a little ridiculous. You can buy a name brand 64GB SD card, retail, for $40. iSuppil states that the incremental cost of the additional NAND flash memory to Apple is only $9.60 for the additional 16GBytes of memory and $19.20 for an additional 32GBytes of memory, which means that Apple pockets an additional $90 to $178 for every upgraded phone sold.

     

    The same goes for adding a cellular chip to the iPad. $130? No. Part cost is roughly $34.00, so Apple margin's there is only 75% or so, as opposed to it's 91% profit margin on a 64GB iPhone upgrade. 

  • Reply 70 of 97

    These "subsidies" seem like nothing more than 2-year financing plans for $700 devices. Are carriers actually losing money overall?

  • Reply 71 of 97
    Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

    many (including me) think Apple is overcharging for storage.


     

    Your many isn’t as many as the actual many, however.

     

     You can buy a name brand 64GB SD card, retail, for $40. iSuppil states that the incremental cost of the additional NAND flash memory to Apple is only $9.60 for the additional 16GBytes of memory and $19.20 for an additional 32GBytes of memory, which means that Apple pockets an additional $90 to $178 for every upgraded phone sold.


     

    Because as we all know, SD cards are exactly the same as internal soldered NAND.

     

    The same goes for adding a cellular chip to the iPad. $130? No. Part cost is roughly $34.00, so Apple margin's there is only 75% or so


     

    Right, because the ONLY cost of a part is the physical metal and plastic that comprise it. No other cost has ever, EVER been effected on any piece of hardware. It only costs what the components cost and every company that charges more than that exact amount is pocketing all that money.

  • Reply 72 of 97
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    These "subsidies" seem like nothing more than 2-year financing plans for $700 devices. Are carriers actually losing money overall?


    If I remember correctly most carriers tend to recoup their subsidy from anywhere around month 15 to month 19 depending on the carrier, your particular plan and also any discounts you might receive. Sprint offers you a new phone 20 months into your contract so we can be sure they have recouped their cost prior to 20 months. Verizon and AT&T I believe both went to 24 months before offering an upgrade but maybe people with those 2 carriers can confirm that since I am not sure.  

     

    Carriers want you to upgrade because when you do you are also renewing your 2 year contract. They have very reason in the world to try and keep you on contract as opposed to off since that makes churn less likely. This is why there is a lot of resistance to lowering plan prices once your phone is paid off or even if you bring your own device. Without a contract they have no hold on you and they don't like giving up their leverage. 

  • Reply 73 of 97
    I don't see what the big deal is. Subsidies are more expensive for the consumer and generate more $ for the carriers. Simply buy the phone as explained here: http://goo.gl/Xmf2qQ.
  • Reply 74 of 97
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,671member
    frood wrote: »

    That's the way Europe works. And it's not good news for Apple unless there is a significant price reduction.
  • Reply 75 of 97
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,671member
    trumptman wrote: »
    Others have mentioned T-mobile and it is clear they are doing some serious damage out there with the Uncarrier initiative.

    Smartphones are pretty near saturation levels. Part of the reason things need to change is that even if someone has a subsidy line available for a new phone when discussing kids and phones, they will often take it for themselves or leave it unused while letting the child use an older phone because kids are a bit theft and drop prone. My children both have the iPhone 4. The wife the 4s and I'm on the 5. Everyone gets a little something when I decide to upgrade.

    There are also now little mini industries around the upkeep and repair of iPhones as another point to ponder. The wife got her phone wet this summer. A new battery and charge port and we were good to go for much less than a new phone.

    That said I recently added my sister to our plan. She knew what she wanted to spend and went into Best Buy and plunked down $50 for a "flat screen" Android phone. That was the full price which is pretty astonishing. I have no doubt that Apple is a better solution and a better phone. I'm not sure they are 1100% better though. I think at some point Apple should be able to still maintain their profit margins with a less expensive phone than the 5C.

    Yes. Similarly my sister and I are discussing a smart phone for our mother this Christmas. She just needs to be able to skype or send pictures ( not mms). She has an iPad - from me - and the obvious solution is an iPhone where all her stuff will be synced and her (iCloud) email will just work.

    However the 5c is 500 plus euro off contract. and looks like a teenagers toy. So she's getting an Android or Windows phone.
  • Reply 76 of 97
    So AT&T is charging 3 times as much on everything and saying that it does not satisfy.


    If they remove subsidies then there monthly charge should be about $50, not triple digits higher than there is,


    They could half the price and still have profits!!!
  • Reply 77 of 97
    I noticed recently that CREDO (or is it CREEDO?) now carries the iPhone. They are some kind of socially responsible (whatever that means) group that sells mobile phone plans. I'm so disgusted with at and t that I'm going to look more closely at these guys.
  • Reply 78 of 97
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    These "subsidies" seem like nothing more than 2-year financing plans for $700 devices. Are carriers actually losing money overall?

    Initially yes, overall no.
  • Reply 79 of 97
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    So AT&T is charging 3 times as much on everything and saying that it does not satisfy.


    If they remove subsidies then there monthly charge should be about $50, not triple digits higher than there is,


    They could half the price and still have profits!!!

    So could Apple. Don't compare rates that a piggybacking MVNO can offer with AT&T and VZW, they have very little overhead, and do nothing to build or maintain the network. Imagine a law forcing Apple to sell iPhones to another company below what it costs them and they being able to sell those iPhones to the same customers at a much cheaper rate. That's what happened in the telecom industry and how CLECs and MVNOs were born.
  • Reply 80 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    Yes. Similarly my sister and I are discussing a smart phone for our mother this Christmas. She just needs to be able to skype or send pictures ( not mms). She has an iPad - from me - and the obvious solution is an iPhone where all her stuff will be synced and her (iCloud) email will just work.



    However the 5c is 500 plus euro off contract. and looks like a teenagers toy. So she's getting an Android or Windows phone.

     

    With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense IMHO.  You’re expecting your mother to learn an entirely new (less stable and less secure) operating system…one that doesn’t play nice with much of anything else when she already understands - and is ostensibly happy with - her iPad?

     

    The “transition” from an iPad to an iPhone is close to seamless.  I guess I don’t understand why you would put her through that.  Because you don’t like the looks of the iPhone 5c.  Really?

     

    You do want her to be happy right?  Just sayin’.

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