Again you are ignorant about Apple. Apple wants the plant to obey local laws. Please show me Apple document that forbid 15 year old worker.
I don't know the exact rule in China factory. But what you said in US is not true now. The US factory use punch cards. If the worker has rule exactly as the supervisors demand, then punch cards are mostly useless. Again I don't thing you are a US worker or ever worked in a US factory.
Everything you say is incorrect.
- Yes, U.S. factories have punch cards to track hours, but that doesn't mean you can work any hours that you want. If you don't show up at the required time for your shift, don't you think there are ramifications? Do you think you can just walk off the line when you feel like it and say, "okay, I'm leaving….you don't have to pay for me for the rest of today." Hell, I once got fired from a retail job because I didn't punch out for lunch - we were so busy I didn't take lunch. I didn't expect to get paid for that hour, but I did it for the good for the department. I got fired for my trouble. The reason why factories use punch cards in spite of mandatory hours is to track the exact time you worked down to the minute and also to track days off.
- Apple's code of conduct is much more stringent than local laws. Local laws form the baseline of what Apple requires. If Apple only required adherence to local laws, then their supplier code of conduct would not be necessary because it would be moot, wouldn't it?
- If Apple or Pegatron permitted 15-year-old workers, then it wouldn't have been necessary for the worker who died to use his cousin's fake ID, would it?
Note that I'm not responding to any further comments you make because your absurd remarks aren't worth my time.
You are contradicting yourself. Initially you try to lay the responsibility on Apple. Now you admit Apple does have a code of conduct. Are you still insisting its Apple responsibility to check ID validity of every Chinese worker?
Several of your points are ignorant. You are probably a salaried worker or simply a company exective. Workers are paid by hours or work performed. Most of them like to work as much as possible. They are not FORCED.
Second, have you read the news carefully. In China the minimum working age is 15. Even in US, high school kids are allowed to work in summertime or halftime.
Well as a person who have been on both pay scales, I have to agree with you that when I was hourly, I took ever opportunity to work more hours, especially when you talk time and 1/2. I believe I read in China over time kicks in after the initial 8 hours you work each day, unless in the US you have to first work 40 hours before over time kicked in. The US also limits how many hours you can work in a day and required you to have breaks over certain number of hours worked. But I have person worked 12 and 14 hours days when I was younger and on an hourly pay and I was happy to get 60 hours or more in a week.
To your other point I believe China limits the age at 16 not 15, in the US it is 14 with a parents note and they can easily work 40 hrs a week if they want. I work a farm during the summers when I was in high school and work more than 40 hours a week, and if you think working in a factory putting screws in a phone is inhuman you never worked on a farm billing hay and stacking it in a barn on 100F day.
Now lets put this in perspective, and if you do not have kids or fail to remember what it is like to be a kid you do not realize what could have actually happen here. Most kids feel they are invincible and bad things will not happen to them. Remember this kid was 15, do you really think we as watching out for his own best interest. Do you think he realize he could die. I know with my kids I have to drag them to the doctors if something wrong. One my kids tore his PCL and walked around months before he decide to tell us and we took him to the doctors. This is what kids do and why they have parents to help them from killing themselves.
I am personally tire of this whole entitlement attitude in the US, what happen to personal responsibility . Why is it Apples or even Manufacture fault the kid lie and failed to take care of himself. It is solely his fault and responsibility.
BTW people we still have kids trying to fake their way into the US military by lying about who they are some were never found out and others are. Why are you not out ragged at our government for not doing a better job. Also a kid under 18 can sign up with parent permission as well.
Well as a person who have been on both pay scales, I have to agree with you that when I was hourly, I took ever opportunity to work more hours, especially when you talk time and 1/2. I believe I read in China over time kicks in after the initial 8 hours you work each day, unless in the US you have to first work 40 hours before over time kicked in. The US also limits how many hours you can work in a day and required you to have breaks over certain number of hours worked. But I have person worked 12 and 14 hours days when I was younger and on an hourly pay and I was happy to get 60 hours or more in a week.
To your other point I believe China limits the age at 16 not 15, in the US it is 14 with a parents note and they can easily work 40 hrs a week if they want. I work a farm during the summers when I was in high school and work more than 40 hours a week, and if you think working in a factory putting screws in a phone is inhuman you never worked on a farm billing hay and stacking it in a barn on 100F day.
Now lets put this in perspective, and if you do not have kids or fail to remember what it is like to be a kid you do not realize what could have actually happen here. Most kids feel they are invincible and bad things will not happen to them. Remember this kid was 15, do you really think we as watching out for his own best interest. Do you think he realize he could die. I know with my kids I have to drag them to the doctors if something wrong. One my kids tore his PCL and walked around months before he decide to tell us and we took him to the doctors. This is what kids do and why they have parents to help them from killing themselves.
I am personally tire of this whole entitlement attitude in the US, what happen to personal responsibility . Why is it Apples or even Manufacture fault the kid lie and failed to take care of himself. It is solely his fault and responsibility.
BTW people we still have kids trying to fake their way into the US military by lying about who they are some were never found out and others are. Why are you not out ragged at our government for not doing a better job. Also a kid under 18 can sign up with parent permission as well.
After discussing, I have a guess. May be Pegatron allowing people over 20 to work for more hours. And this is the reason the 15 year old faked the ID?
Comments
Again you are ignorant about Apple. Apple wants the plant to obey local laws. Please show me Apple document that forbid 15 year old worker.
I don't know the exact rule in China factory. But what you said in US is not true now. The US factory use punch cards. If the worker has rule exactly as the supervisors demand, then punch cards are mostly useless. Again I don't thing you are a US worker or ever worked in a US factory.
Everything you say is incorrect.
- Yes, U.S. factories have punch cards to track hours, but that doesn't mean you can work any hours that you want. If you don't show up at the required time for your shift, don't you think there are ramifications? Do you think you can just walk off the line when you feel like it and say, "okay, I'm leaving….you don't have to pay for me for the rest of today." Hell, I once got fired from a retail job because I didn't punch out for lunch - we were so busy I didn't take lunch. I didn't expect to get paid for that hour, but I did it for the good for the department. I got fired for my trouble. The reason why factories use punch cards in spite of mandatory hours is to track the exact time you worked down to the minute and also to track days off.
- Apple's code of conduct is much more stringent than local laws. Local laws form the baseline of what Apple requires. If Apple only required adherence to local laws, then their supplier code of conduct would not be necessary because it would be moot, wouldn't it?
- If Apple or Pegatron permitted 15-year-old workers, then it wouldn't have been necessary for the worker who died to use his cousin's fake ID, would it?
Note that I'm not responding to any further comments you make because your absurd remarks aren't worth my time.
You are contradicting yourself. Initially you try to lay the responsibility on Apple. Now you admit Apple does have a code of conduct. Are you still insisting its Apple responsibility to check ID validity of every Chinese worker?
Several of your points are ignorant. You are probably a salaried worker or simply a company exective. Workers are paid by hours or work performed. Most of them like to work as much as possible. They are not FORCED.
Second, have you read the news carefully. In China the minimum working age is 15. Even in US, high school kids are allowed to work in summertime or halftime.
Well as a person who have been on both pay scales, I have to agree with you that when I was hourly, I took ever opportunity to work more hours, especially when you talk time and 1/2. I believe I read in China over time kicks in after the initial 8 hours you work each day, unless in the US you have to first work 40 hours before over time kicked in. The US also limits how many hours you can work in a day and required you to have breaks over certain number of hours worked. But I have person worked 12 and 14 hours days when I was younger and on an hourly pay and I was happy to get 60 hours or more in a week.
To your other point I believe China limits the age at 16 not 15, in the US it is 14 with a parents note and they can easily work 40 hrs a week if they want. I work a farm during the summers when I was in high school and work more than 40 hours a week, and if you think working in a factory putting screws in a phone is inhuman you never worked on a farm billing hay and stacking it in a barn on 100F day.
Now lets put this in perspective, and if you do not have kids or fail to remember what it is like to be a kid you do not realize what could have actually happen here. Most kids feel they are invincible and bad things will not happen to them. Remember this kid was 15, do you really think we as watching out for his own best interest. Do you think he realize he could die. I know with my kids I have to drag them to the doctors if something wrong. One my kids tore his PCL and walked around months before he decide to tell us and we took him to the doctors. This is what kids do and why they have parents to help them from killing themselves.
I am personally tire of this whole entitlement attitude in the US, what happen to personal responsibility . Why is it Apples or even Manufacture fault the kid lie and failed to take care of himself. It is solely his fault and responsibility.
BTW people we still have kids trying to fake their way into the US military by lying about who they are some were never found out and others are. Why are you not out ragged at our government for not doing a better job. Also a kid under 18 can sign up with parent permission as well.
Well as a person who have been on both pay scales, I have to agree with you that when I was hourly, I took ever opportunity to work more hours, especially when you talk time and 1/2. I believe I read in China over time kicks in after the initial 8 hours you work each day, unless in the US you have to first work 40 hours before over time kicked in. The US also limits how many hours you can work in a day and required you to have breaks over certain number of hours worked. But I have person worked 12 and 14 hours days when I was younger and on an hourly pay and I was happy to get 60 hours or more in a week.
To your other point I believe China limits the age at 16 not 15, in the US it is 14 with a parents note and they can easily work 40 hrs a week if they want. I work a farm during the summers when I was in high school and work more than 40 hours a week, and if you think working in a factory putting screws in a phone is inhuman you never worked on a farm billing hay and stacking it in a barn on 100F day.
Now lets put this in perspective, and if you do not have kids or fail to remember what it is like to be a kid you do not realize what could have actually happen here. Most kids feel they are invincible and bad things will not happen to them. Remember this kid was 15, do you really think we as watching out for his own best interest. Do you think he realize he could die. I know with my kids I have to drag them to the doctors if something wrong. One my kids tore his PCL and walked around months before he decide to tell us and we took him to the doctors. This is what kids do and why they have parents to help them from killing themselves.
I am personally tire of this whole entitlement attitude in the US, what happen to personal responsibility . Why is it Apples or even Manufacture fault the kid lie and failed to take care of himself. It is solely his fault and responsibility.
BTW people we still have kids trying to fake their way into the US military by lying about who they are some were never found out and others are. Why are you not out ragged at our government for not doing a better job. Also a kid under 18 can sign up with parent permission as well.
After discussing, I have a guess. May be Pegatron allowing people over 20 to work for more hours. And this is the reason the 15 year old faked the ID?
This DOES appear to be Apple's fault.
But we all know Apple is at fault and covering it up. /s
You are right. Apple only cares about making tons of money and the human life in these factories they could care less about.