I realize the basis of your argument probably assumes an "average user", however that is defined. I'd posit that a buyer of a Mac Mini is probably a bit above average compared to the typical purchaser at Best Buy or Costco if for no other reason than the fact some assembly is required. My mid-2011 Mini, at the heart of my video system, just completed an upgrade that included a 448GB SSD. It uses two hard-connected spinning drives to store exported video and records incoming video by virtue of eyeTV. It's not uncoming in racing season for it to pull down 15 hours of 1080p video in a week. The cloud can't handle the transfer times to make that feasible. And until fiber becomes as universal as copper, bandwidth nor ubiquity of access can be assumed as a choice for any consumer.
What assembly is required? Plugging in a mouse, monitor and keyboard? Or just monitor if you had everything bluetooth. No worse than buying a brand new Dell desktop. Well it's far better than Dell, I just mean as far as "assembly" goes. Mac Mini is still a great switcher machine and I think Apple would be very smart to get it back down to $500. Haswell, Iris Pro graphics, 256GB SSD and the uprade option of a Fusion drive. Have a top end option with quad core and Fusion standard or double SSD RAID
But one shopper who contacted the stores about the listings posted onMacRumors to reveal that the retailer believes the new Mac minis will launch by the end of February. Computerstore.be based this on information they claimed to have received from "reliable sources."
I'd like to believe this but find it hard to believe that a source that would actually know would tell a store...
I just want a Haswell spec bump. Don't change the case. Let me keep my SATA drive connector and my upgradeable RAM.
Given that every other machine is on PCIe SSD, I would expect this just so they have common SSD supplies that work in every machine rather than SATA SSDs just for the Mini. Like the iMac, it would be 1 PCIe slot and 1 SATA slot. If they do go with Iris Pro, soldered RAM would be best to make sure the IGP has the best memory bandwidth. They don't have much room for 16GB soldered in the current model but the removal of the 2nd SATA HDD would allow them to fit it in.
The base unit would ship with a hard drive just like the iMac and have the SSD optional. The Iris chips are too expensive for the entry model. They are at least $90 more than the ones they use now so would push the entry price up to $699. The chip they'd most likely use in the entry one is the i5-4200M with 4600 graphics:
4600 here is faster than the Iris used in the Air. However, I don't think they should use that. I think they should use the $434 chip from the Macbook Pro, the i7-4850HQ:
They might go with the 4750HQ and milk the upgrade like they do in the MBP but it costs the same. This would raise the price of the $799 model but even if it's $849 or $899, that's still a much better offer than the 4600.
i5-4200H
4600 graphics 1GB VRAM
500GB HDD, 256GB PCIe SSD optional for $200 etc
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300 (I would rather 16GB was $200)
$599 base price
i7-4750HQ/4850HQ
Iris Pro 5200 graphics 1GB VRAM
1TB HDD, 256GB PCIe SSD optional for $200 etc
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300
$849-899 base price
No explicit server model is required as it can be sold as BTO with either machine but it can be a preconfigured model at $999.
A decent value model would be quad-i7 with the 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM and would cost $1149-1199. I'd rather they didn't charge $300 for 16GB when 3rd parties are close to half that. $200 is much more reasonable.
I reckon they'll either go 4200M and 4800MQ with 4600 graphics at the same prices or 4200H and 4850HQ with the Iris Pro option costing a bit more. I hope they do the latter but the former is more likely.
Dual Thunderbolt would be best too.
The delay in the update would be expected for a redesign of the internals but they might be shipping the manufacturing of it back to the US too. It makes sense they'd push it to February so they can clear the Mac Pro orders first.
I think if they were to add a 2nd Thunderbolt port then getting rid of the FW800 port would be fine with me. I agree with the 5400 RPM hard drive. Thats almost shameful. I too would like to see a Mac Pro type design. Maybe this is why you didn't see it updated???
Given the 2013 iMac ships stock with spinning drives a 2014 Mini will likely too.
Still you never know. If they decide to shrink again the easiest thing to do is replace the space for two drives with space for one SSD sticks.
Yah...that would be nice. The 16GB RAM is soldered will be pretty much a required upgrade as is the PCIe SSD since some Macs without fusion also lacked the PCIe slot.
$1400 for a Core i7 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM Mini isn't that bad even when you tack on another $400 for monitor keyboard and mouse.
I have strongly believed that with the new AirPort Extreme & T-C that Apple would update the Apple TV & Mac-mini in similar form.
That being Cubed not a tower like the former, this way they can add more spec to them (capacity SSD or old HD) among other things.
I was going to write the very same thing... so
+1 :smokey:
Edited: I would add that they could certainly reduce costs this way i.e. using one case design, packaging specs, etc.
$1400 for a Core i7 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM Mini isn't that bad even when you tack on another $400 for monitor keyboard and mouse.
Right. It appears that some of us are using minis for real work in tight spaces where an iMac isn't a practical alternative and are willing to pay for a fast, powerful version. My fear is that our needs/wants conflict with those who want the mini to be an inexpensive entry point into the world of Mac. I hope not.
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300 (I would rather 16GB was $200)
I don't mind the idea of soldered RAM since I always max out at time of purchase anyway, but you bring up a good point: I've been maxing out with Crucial or OWC, not Apple. Soldered RAM means having to pay Apple prices. That could be much less attractive.
Even thought the mini is a slightly underpowered, I love it. And would upgrade every time a model came out. The price is perfect. AND because i don't need to purchase a new monitor every time...as one is forced to do with an iMac....upgrading is easy and priced just right. I've hated the all in one models like the iMac for years because monitors rarely become obsolete. But upgrading an iMac is not a smart price option until the thing collapses.
I don't mind the idea of soldered RAM since I always max out at time of purchase anyway, but you bring up a good point: I've been maxing out with Crucial or OWC, not Apple. Soldered RAM means having to pay Apple prices. That could be much less attractive.
If you've been maxing out with third-party RAM, you've been upgrading after your purchase.
Soldered RAM will kill Mini sales even further.
The machine's target markets (switchers, installers and DIYers) expect to be able to do basic upgrades.
Even thought the mini is a slightly underpowered, I love it. And would upgrade every time a model came out. The price is perfect. AND because i don't need to purchase a new monitor every time...as one is forced to do with an iMac....upgrading is easy and priced just right. I've hated the all in one models like the iMac for years because monitors rarely become obsolete. But upgrading an iMac is not a smart price option until the thing collapses.
I guess that depends on what you do with your old mini. If you sell it or donate it then no monitor is required.
If you hand it down to someone then a monitor is required unless they already have one. My old one is connected to a 19" Ultrasharp that is small by modern standards. My current Mini has a 23" LG e-IPS which will likely get handed down with it when I get a new mini. Then I'll buy a cheaper 27" IPS from somewhere to pair up with a new mini.
The machine's target markets (switchers, installers and DIYers) expect to be able to do basic upgrades.
I'm willing to bet that the switcher market vastly outweighs the other markets U mention. Most people just buy a computer and never change anything, just buy another one later. Soldered RAM won't impact most people at all
I'm willing to bet that the switcher market vastly outweighs the other markets U mention. Most people just buy a computer and never change anything, just buy another one later. Soldered RAM won't impact most people at all
I'm not so sure about that. The 'installer' market I referred to includes people setting the machine up as home automation and office servers.
There were enough of these customers that Apple introduced a dedicated server model.
Right. It appears that some of us are using minis for real work in tight spaces where an iMac isn't a practical alternative and are willing to pay for a fast, powerful version. My fear is that our needs/wants conflict with those who want the mini to be an inexpensive entry point into the world of Mac. I hope not.
More importantly all the latest standards put the fastest solutions into the solder on category. If you want fast you will have no choice but solder on RAM.
I'm willing to bet that the switcher market vastly outweighs the other markets U mention. Most people just buy a computer and never change anything, just buy another one later. Soldered RAM won't impact most people at all
The case isn't a huge issue for me, however I'm a firm believer in the idea that there is nothing that can't be improved. I really like the various idea float about with respect to a more vertical device. Another possibility is a design, maybe one quarter rack width that would allow ganging up for rack mounting. The mini would remain good looking but be able to be used in professional installations.
Let me keep my SATA drive connector and my upgradeable RAM.
SATA is dead for main storage on modern PCs. The entire rest of Apple product line proves that. That being said nothing beats rust for bulk storage. For that bulk storage I'd like to see Apple market a matching chassis with a disk array built in.
Upgradable RAM is an interesting desire but in a couple of years you won't see high performance systems with it. The fastest RAM specs out there all require soldered in RAM. Fast RAM is extremely important to APUs and apples vision of heterogeneous computing. It might not happen in the 2014 Mini but I don't expect that upgrade able RAM will be with us for long. If it is supported it will be slower than what is built into the machine.
There are people who are so addicted to Apple products they will buy anything new Apple comes out with.
That's definitely not me. I did get my jacket by the way and I love it. I need more clothes for the spring though having said that, my Mac mini is turning three years old so it might be time to save up for a Mac mini and if I don't get one this year than maybe in early 2015.
Upgradable RAM is an interesting desire but in a couple of years you won't see high performance systems with it. The fastest RAM specs out there all require soldered in RAM. Fast RAM is extremely important to APUs and apples vision of heterogeneous computing.
Then Apple's product matrix is upside down.
If they solder in the RAM in the $600. desktop, and allow upgradable RAM in the $3000. desktop, how does that work?
Comments
I realize the basis of your argument probably assumes an "average user", however that is defined. I'd posit that a buyer of a Mac Mini is probably a bit above average compared to the typical purchaser at Best Buy or Costco if for no other reason than the fact some assembly is required. My mid-2011 Mini, at the heart of my video system, just completed an upgrade that included a 448GB SSD. It uses two hard-connected spinning drives to store exported video and records incoming video by virtue of eyeTV. It's not uncoming in racing season for it to pull down 15 hours of 1080p video in a week. The cloud can't handle the transfer times to make that feasible. And until fiber becomes as universal as copper, bandwidth nor ubiquity of access can be assumed as a choice for any consumer.
What assembly is required? Plugging in a mouse, monitor and keyboard? Or just monitor if you had everything bluetooth. No worse than buying a brand new Dell desktop. Well it's far better than Dell, I just mean as far as "assembly" goes.
But one shopper who contacted the stores about the listings posted on MacRumors to reveal that the retailer believes the new Mac minis will launch by the end of February. Computerstore.be based this on information they claimed to have received from "reliable sources."
I'd like to believe this but find it hard to believe that a source that would actually know would tell a store...
Given that every other machine is on PCIe SSD, I would expect this just so they have common SSD supplies that work in every machine rather than SATA SSDs just for the Mini. Like the iMac, it would be 1 PCIe slot and 1 SATA slot. If they do go with Iris Pro, soldered RAM would be best to make sure the IGP has the best memory bandwidth. They don't have much room for 16GB soldered in the current model but the removal of the 2nd SATA HDD would allow them to fit it in.
The base unit would ship with a hard drive just like the iMac and have the SSD optional. The Iris chips are too expensive for the entry model. They are at least $90 more than the ones they use now so would push the entry price up to $699. The chip they'd most likely use in the entry one is the i5-4200M with 4600 graphics:
http://ark.intel.com/products/76348/Intel-Core-i5-4200M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz
but since this has a different socket from the Iris Pro i7, they'd have to use the i5-4200H with a higher TDP:
http://ark.intel.com/products/75027/Intel-Core-i5-4200H-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz
The old entry i7 cost $378 so the equivalent there would be the i7-4800MQ, again with 4600 graphics:
http://ark.intel.com/products/75128/Intel-Core-i7-4800MQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz
4600 here is faster than the Iris used in the Air. However, I don't think they should use that. I think they should use the $434 chip from the Macbook Pro, the i7-4850HQ:
http://ark.intel.com/products/76086/Intel-Core-i7-4850HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz
They might go with the 4750HQ and milk the upgrade like they do in the MBP but it costs the same. This would raise the price of the $799 model but even if it's $849 or $899, that's still a much better offer than the 4600.
i5-4200H
4600 graphics 1GB VRAM
500GB HDD, 256GB PCIe SSD optional for $200 etc
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300 (I would rather 16GB was $200)
$599 base price
i7-4750HQ/4850HQ
Iris Pro 5200 graphics 1GB VRAM
1TB HDD, 256GB PCIe SSD optional for $200 etc
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300
$849-899 base price
No explicit server model is required as it can be sold as BTO with either machine but it can be a preconfigured model at $999.
A decent value model would be quad-i7 with the 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM and would cost $1149-1199. I'd rather they didn't charge $300 for 16GB when 3rd parties are close to half that. $200 is much more reasonable.
I reckon they'll either go 4200M and 4800MQ with 4600 graphics at the same prices or 4200H and 4850HQ with the Iris Pro option costing a bit more. I hope they do the latter but the former is more likely.
Dual Thunderbolt would be best too.
The delay in the update would be expected for a redesign of the internals but they might be shipping the manufacturing of it back to the US too. It makes sense they'd push it to February so they can clear the Mac Pro orders first.
I think if they were to add a 2nd Thunderbolt port then getting rid of the FW800 port would be fine with me. I agree with the 5400 RPM hard drive. Thats almost shameful. I too would like to see a Mac Pro type design. Maybe this is why you didn't see it updated???
Given the 2013 iMac ships stock with spinning drives a 2014 Mini will likely too.
Still you never know. If they decide to shrink again the easiest thing to do is replace the space for two drives with space for one SSD sticks.
i7-4750HQ/4850HQ
Iris Pro 5200 graphics 1GB VRAM
1TB HDD, 256GB PCIe SSD optional for $200 etc
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300
$849-899 base price
Yah...that would be nice. The 16GB RAM is soldered will be pretty much a required upgrade as is the PCIe SSD since some Macs without fusion also lacked the PCIe slot.
$1400 for a Core i7 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM Mini isn't that bad even when you tack on another $400 for monitor keyboard and mouse.
I was going to write the very same thing... so
+1 :smokey:
Edited: I would add that they could certainly reduce costs this way i.e. using one case design, packaging specs, etc.
I have never saw a SSD for under $200 with that much [256GB] storage space yet.
Then you need to sharpen up your shopping skills, and considerably at that.
Samsung 840 Evo 250GB, $169.99 on amazon right now, see:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE250BW/dp/B00E3W1726/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390502021&sr=8-1&keywords=256gb+ssd
Plenty of others here:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=256gb+ssd&sprefix=256GB,aps,164
$1400 for a Core i7 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM Mini isn't that bad even when you tack on another $400 for monitor keyboard and mouse.
Right. It appears that some of us are using minis for real work in tight spaces where an iMac isn't a practical alternative and are willing to pay for a fast, powerful version. My fear is that our needs/wants conflict with those who want the mini to be an inexpensive entry point into the world of Mac. I hope not.
4GB soldered, 8GB for $100, 16GB for $300 (I would rather 16GB was $200)
I don't mind the idea of soldered RAM since I always max out at time of purchase anyway, but you bring up a good point: I've been maxing out with Crucial or OWC, not Apple. Soldered RAM means having to pay Apple prices. That could be much less attractive.
I don't mind the idea of soldered RAM since I always max out at time of purchase anyway, but you bring up a good point: I've been maxing out with Crucial or OWC, not Apple. Soldered RAM means having to pay Apple prices. That could be much less attractive.
If you've been maxing out with third-party RAM, you've been upgrading after your purchase.
Soldered RAM will kill Mini sales even further.
The machine's target markets (switchers, installers and DIYers) expect to be able to do basic upgrades.
Even thought the mini is a slightly underpowered, I love it. And would upgrade every time a model came out. The price is perfect. AND because i don't need to purchase a new monitor every time...as one is forced to do with an iMac....upgrading is easy and priced just right. I've hated the all in one models like the iMac for years because monitors rarely become obsolete. But upgrading an iMac is not a smart price option until the thing collapses.
I guess that depends on what you do with your old mini. If you sell it or donate it then no monitor is required.
If you hand it down to someone then a monitor is required unless they already have one. My old one is connected to a 19" Ultrasharp that is small by modern standards. My current Mini has a 23" LG e-IPS which will likely get handed down with it when I get a new mini. Then I'll buy a cheaper 27" IPS from somewhere to pair up with a new mini.
Soldered RAM will kill Mini sales even further.The machine's target markets (switchers, installers and DIYers) expect to be able to do basic upgrades.
I'm willing to bet that the switcher market vastly outweighs the other markets U mention. Most people just buy a computer and never change anything, just buy another one later. Soldered RAM won't impact most people at all
I'm willing to bet that the switcher market vastly outweighs the other markets U mention. Most people just buy a computer and never change anything, just buy another one later. Soldered RAM won't impact most people at all
I'm not so sure about that. The 'installer' market I referred to includes people setting the machine up as home automation and office servers.
There were enough of these customers that Apple introduced a dedicated server model.
SATA is dead for main storage on modern PCs. The entire rest of Apple product line proves that. That being said nothing beats rust for bulk storage. For that bulk storage I'd like to see Apple market a matching chassis with a disk array built in.
Upgradable RAM is an interesting desire but in a couple of years you won't see high performance systems with it. The fastest RAM specs out there all require soldered in RAM. Fast RAM is extremely important to APUs and apples vision of heterogeneous computing. It might not happen in the 2014 Mini but I don't expect that upgrade able RAM will be with us for long. If it is supported it will be slower than what is built into the machine.
There are people who are so addicted to Apple products they will buy anything new Apple comes out with.
That's definitely not me. I did get my jacket by the way and I love it. I need more clothes for the spring though having said that, my Mac mini is turning three years old so it might be time to save up for a Mac mini and if I don't get one this year than maybe in early 2015.
Upgradable RAM is an interesting desire but in a couple of years you won't see high performance systems with it. The fastest RAM specs out there all require soldered in RAM. Fast RAM is extremely important to APUs and apples vision of heterogeneous computing.
Then Apple's product matrix is upside down.
If they solder in the RAM in the $600. desktop, and allow upgradable RAM in the $3000. desktop, how does that work?