I like the plan too and I also hold shares. I don't really understand the hostility on this site towards Icahn. The difference between what he wants and what the board has already agreed to is just a matter of scale. All he's doing is making the case that AAPL is a screaming buy, and he's also putting his money where his mouth is. He may be going a bit too far but maybe not. He sounds persuasive to me when he says the board is being overly cautious. I haven't decided if I'm voting yes or no, but regardless, I see Icahn as definitely on Apple's side. He's an intelligent (if opinionated) billionaire who greatly respects Apple's products and is also very bullish about their future. I'm very glad he's getting his voice out there.
Not everyone on here has a polarized opinion, and writing that shows a bias on your part. Tim cook never said he won't increase the buy back. Remember, he's the one who came up with the buy back program when others were clamoring for apple to buy more companies. Then, Carl Icahn says he's not doing nearly enough and needs to do more - funny he only said it after the announced buy back, maybe he's jumping on the bandwagon now that it's ok? Sounds typical of what apple deals with. To those who are upset that apple won't tweak their plans for a few billion more or a few percentage points more, if it's such a small difference than why do you care, and why does Icahn care enough to pester apple to their face, the press, the investors, and the whole world every month? The problem with Carl is he's too obvious... gushing about how wonderful of an investment they are, while holding 3 billion worth. He's knows apple has already commited to buying billions, so it's some guarantee on an already solid stock. I don't expect tim cook to do exactly what one investor says. Some people don't think apple is good at communicating with Wall Street, I think Wall Street can never understand apple. There's no point in trying to make Wall Street happy. They'll never be happy. Ever. You want proof... Apple went from the brink of bankruptcy to biggest company in the world, and how many investors shut their mouth and let apple do their thing now? There will always be another new investor who wants to make money on the stock. After Icahn gets out, another new investor will need cook to jump through hoops. The reason you can't listen to Icahn is because of a conflict of interest. The only people who passionately want this are investors. One man sitting on the outside looking in doesn't hold any weight with me. There are many factors going on - Tim cook knows more than him or I, now if tim cook came out and said he's buying back more, that would hold some weight. But for now, the only people who are shaking their head are investors trying to make enough money for their next swimming pool.
I think the most dangerous thing that Apple could do is to put itself in a position where they have so much debt that they need to go crawling on hands and knees to the Wall Street bankers and investment community to avoid repatriating foreign profits in order to fund their next major project(s). I believe Icahn is spearheading a campaign with just such a damaging goal in mind.
The consumer electronics market that Apple dominates is both fickle and volatile. Apple should hang on to as much F-You money as they can while keeping investors happy.
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced. It looks like a great pump and dump to me.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down. Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced. It looks like a great pump and dump to me.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down.
Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
Just my opinion...
I don't agree. From his comments yesterday, he talked to the biggest shareholders and he has a better understanding of the culture around Apple. Stacking cash is a good thing, but at this point enough is enough.
The next thing that needs to be address is how to get that oversee cash in the US at a reasonable rate. Apple is not the only company keeping its cash offshore because of outdated tax laws. If the US wants more investments and new jobs they have to move before companies invest too much in new plants oversee.
Float needs to come down as long as Apple is growing. Right now float is way too big. It's a win win for company and shareholders! It cannot be any simpler than this. Do I say no-brainer?
Apple has been spending a great deal of money in people, plant, and are building a massive building in Cupertino. Someone should be in Washington having them repatriate money if spent on people, plant and equipment. It can be done on a case to case basis. And Both Apple and the US government would be better off. Carl's main issue is the board, he has no problem with Cook and Ives And explain why the Chairman of the board of Apple works FULL time as CEO of a company owned by Google
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced.
OOH! Idea. When Apple wins the second Apple v. Samsung trial, Samsung’s punishment will be that Icahn is forcibly invested into their company and removed from Apple. " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Originally Posted by herbapou
He did his homework.
Except in regard to knowing when Apple products came into existence or caring anything about the company at all beyond the piles of green that they sit upon.
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced. It looks like a great pump and dump to me.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down.
Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
Just my opinion...
Why would $150bn make Apple massively overleveraged? That's around 5 years income (at current levels, not taking into account reduced dividend payments) in cash, a large part of which they could cover with reserves if they chose to repatriate (they wouldn't, they'd issue a bond to avoid the repatriation tax).
That's not overleveraged. It's barely leveraged at all.
And there are no rules of precedent in shareholders meetings, Icahn won't get any increased traction in an argument for buying back shares with "but they did it before". Every decision on its own merits, and while Apple can currently easily afford a bigger buyback, that clearly doesn't extend forever.
FUD.
Good move from Icahn, shows confidence in the company, lends weight to his argument, which is a good one. Apple is undervalued, still has lots of growth potential, and a bigger share buy back would capitalise on that value for shareholders. The limit on the share buyback should be how much free cash Apple needs for security and to execute its strategy, and no way is that anywhere near its current levels.
I don't think he is stuck on buy back only. He they announced that they were buying Tesla, and making Elon Musk ,Chairman of the Board, he would be quite happy.
The next thing that needs to be address is how to get that oversee cash in the US at a reasonable rate. Apple is not the only company keeping its cash offshore because of outdated tax laws. If the US wants more investments and new jobs they have to move before companies invest too much in new plants oversee.
Hmm.... What a brilliant idea. I am sure no one has thought of it.
Why don't you write to Congress? Maybe they'll listen to herbapou.
I think Apple has about 80,000 employees. And they have the opportunity to buy Apple stock at a discount of 15% plus at the lowest price for the quarter. That would make it about 20%. They are limited to 10% of the wages. Do you think this program creates a important group of long term investors? But I thought investing 101 suggests that your mission is to buy undervalued companies, and keep them until you have a better opportunity. I do not understand all the unhappiness with Icahn. What he did at TWA many years ago may have been wrong, but what has he done lately that is so bad
Have any of you wondered how Crazy Carl is buying the stock? I'm pretty sure he didn't have it sitting in a bank account. He's selling other shares for a better investment. What do you think will happen if he finds a better investment than Apple? He ain't in it for the long term.
What is the long term? One year according to the IRS Do you think Apple has to explain their thinking on having the excess cash and credit? Why is their PE so low compared to Google and Amazon and the S&P?
Comments
That’s not a justification, though.
Not everyone on here has a polarized opinion, and writing that shows a bias on your part. Tim cook never said he won't increase the buy back. Remember, he's the one who came up with the buy back program when others were clamoring for apple to buy more companies. Then, Carl Icahn says he's not doing nearly enough and needs to do more - funny he only said it after the announced buy back, maybe he's jumping on the bandwagon now that it's ok? Sounds typical of what apple deals with. To those who are upset that apple won't tweak their plans for a few billion more or a few percentage points more, if it's such a small difference than why do you care, and why does Icahn care enough to pester apple to their face, the press, the investors, and the whole world every month? The problem with Carl is he's too obvious... gushing about how wonderful of an investment they are, while holding 3 billion worth. He's knows apple has already commited to buying billions, so it's some guarantee on an already solid stock. I don't expect tim cook to do exactly what one investor says. Some people don't think apple is good at communicating with Wall Street, I think Wall Street can never understand apple. There's no point in trying to make Wall Street happy. They'll never be happy. Ever. You want proof... Apple went from the brink of bankruptcy to biggest company in the world, and how many investors shut their mouth and let apple do their thing now? There will always be another new investor who wants to make money on the stock. After Icahn gets out, another new investor will need cook to jump through hoops. The reason you can't listen to Icahn is because of a conflict of interest. The only people who passionately want this are investors. One man sitting on the outside looking in doesn't hold any weight with me. There are many factors going on - Tim cook knows more than him or I, now if tim cook came out and said he's buying back more, that would hold some weight. But for now, the only people who are shaking their head are investors trying to make enough money for their next swimming pool.
The consumer electronics market that Apple dominates is both fickle and volatile. Apple should hang on to as much F-You money as they can while keeping investors happy.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down.
Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
Just my opinion...
I agree with everything Carl said. Everything.
same here. He did his homework.
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced. It looks like a great pump and dump to me.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down.
Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
Just my opinion...
I don't agree. From his comments yesterday, he talked to the biggest shareholders and he has a better understanding of the culture around Apple. Stacking cash is a good thing, but at this point enough is enough.
The next thing that needs to be address is how to get that oversee cash in the US at a reasonable rate. Apple is not the only company keeping its cash offshore because of outdated tax laws. If the US wants more investments and new jobs they have to move before companies invest too much in new plants oversee.
Carl's main issue is the board, he has no problem with Cook and Ives
And explain why the Chairman of the board of Apple works FULL time as CEO of a company owned by Google
OOH! Idea. When Apple wins the second Apple v. Samsung trial, Samsung’s punishment will be that Icahn is forcibly invested into their company and removed from Apple.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Except in regard to knowing when Apple products came into existence or caring anything about the company at all beyond the piles of green that they sit upon.
I believe Icahn is the greatest threat Apple have ever faced. It looks like a great pump and dump to me.
The revised figure he is demanding (it's only another 16 billion!) is a Trojan Horse. If it is approved, he will ask again and again to take the leverage up to his original $150b - he will use the first approval as a precedent and push it as high as he can.
Once he done this (extracting the maximum personal profit of course) he will dump the shares through a variety of shell companies, simultaneously if possible.
The stock will crash. Then Apple will be massively over leveraged with worthless stock. Shareholder rebellion will lead to a series of company wide restructures, starting with Managment. Once they have left, the wolves will circle, long time product pipelines will evaporate without clear leadership and the ability to buy massive manufacturing resource upfront will dissolve (think bulk NAND purchases for a start) and then it all comes down.
Icahn walks away with a massive profit and we are left with Google and Microsoft.
Just my opinion...
Why would $150bn make Apple massively overleveraged? That's around 5 years income (at current levels, not taking into account reduced dividend payments) in cash, a large part of which they could cover with reserves if they chose to repatriate (they wouldn't, they'd issue a bond to avoid the repatriation tax).
That's not overleveraged. It's barely leveraged at all.
And there are no rules of precedent in shareholders meetings, Icahn won't get any increased traction in an argument for buying back shares with "but they did it before". Every decision on its own merits, and while Apple can currently easily afford a bigger buyback, that clearly doesn't extend forever.
FUD.
Good move from Icahn, shows confidence in the company, lends weight to his argument, which is a good one. Apple is undervalued, still has lots of growth potential, and a bigger share buy back would capitalise on that value for shareholders. The limit on the share buyback should be how much free cash Apple needs for security and to execute its strategy, and no way is that anywhere near its current levels.
Why don't you share it with us in your own words?
The previous explanation I got in this thread didn't help much at all.
Hmm.... What a brilliant idea. I am sure no one has thought of it.
Why don't you write to Congress? Maybe they'll listen to herbapou.
But I thought investing 101 suggests that your mission is to buy undervalued companies, and keep them until you have a better opportunity.
I do not understand all the unhappiness with Icahn. What he did at TWA many years ago may have been wrong, but what has he done lately that is so bad
One year according to the IRS
Do you think Apple has to explain their thinking on having the excess cash and credit?
Why is their PE so low compared to Google and Amazon and the S&P?
Icahn is everywhere these days! I read a couple of days ago about him meddling into Ebay & Paypal
Carl Icahn Wants eBay to Spin Off PayPal
Read more: Carl Icahn Wants eBay to Spin Off PayPal | TIME.com http://business.time.com/2014/01/22/icahn-ebay-paypal/#ixzz2rHnpTojT
Sounds good to me