Mmmmmmmm… no. See, we didn’t know then about that. We know now about this. No one paying any attention whatsoever could think it was the same. It’s the difference between knowledge and ignorance. We were ignorant then. We are not ignorant here.
No. This interview provides no greater insight to Apple's roadmap than Steve Jobs comment regarding 7" tablets. You were just as adamant that Steve's comments then provide that the Mini would never happen.
Quote:
NOPE. NOT AT ALL. Which, again, you would know if you were paying any attention whatsoever. The iPhone mini has no Wi-Fi, no Safari, no Mail, and a 2.5” screen. It is a smaller, cheaper version than the too large, too expensive, too complex iPhone.
Amazing that you know the exact specs of a product that has not (yet) been released. Analyst and forum member expectations of an iPhone Nano were all over the map. Apple's past moves, however, would indicate that they don't do cheaper but they like to do smaller. The difference between an iPhone Nano and a feature phone would likely be like the difference between a MBA and a netbook. So possibly no Safari because the screen is too small but Mail, Message and WiFi likely in. Certainly it would have video, music and camera.
It is safe to state that Apple would not likely do a cheap feature phone to simply capture volume. What is also safe to say is that if Apple determined that they could do a feature phone correctly, like they determined that they could do the netbook correctly, and create a whole new product segment (like they did with ultra books) they would do so.
What YOU do is state that anyone who believes in the latter is wrong because you believe in the first statement. The fact is that the two positions are not mutually exclusive.
Quote:
You’d make a spectacular analyst. No wonder you don’t understand what we’re talking about.
Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.
If you look at touchscreen input research they never are vertical but are horizontal work surfaces. The problem is you need to be able to generate this work surface in a cost effective manner that is as thin as a desk blotter or it will alway be some odd workaround like top down projection (3M), bottom projection (MS Surface...the old tabletop version) or a HDTV embedded into a desk with a touch surface on top.
Folks that prattle on about how your arms would get tired from lifting it all day are creating a straw man.
Quote:
I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.
If MS were to implement this I'm sure it would be full of animated tiles distracting you all the time. I would hazard a guess that Apple would make it a much more refined experience even at rev 1.0.
Quote:
I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.
My guess is they really hate that extra thickness currently required for a digitizer and don't want to add a stylus natively.
Amazing that you know the exact specs of a product that has not (yet) been released.
You don’t comprehend the slightest thing about what we’re discussing. You refuse to take the time to learn what we’re talking about so that you can intelligently respond. Stop talking about it and move on.
Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.
I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.
I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.
Hopefully the iPad Pro....
On the topic of input accessories, the new input kits from Palette Gear sounds pretty neat for customised actions. I'm waiting for the reviews before I order it.
To my view anything a mouse can do a stylus on a Wacom tablet can do better*. And take up FAR less desk real-estate doing it. OTOH choice is good so leaving that to outside manufacturers such as Wacom is okay by me.
Instead, it’s because using a mouse and keyboard just isn’t the same as tapping with your finger. “It’s obvious and easy enough to slap a touchscreen on a piece of hardware, but is that a good experience?” Federighi said. “We believe, no.”
HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. Why is it so difficult for some Apple users to comprehend this? Federighi is freaking awesome.
This might conflict with the idea of tablets replacing laptops you mentioned in the past though:
"The iPad will replace laptops entirely. Then the desktop will see a huge resurgence."
Unless the iPad can replace the function of the laptop, it can't replace the laptop. People need mobile workstations.
I want to be able to interact with OS X using touch. It does need a new UI but it's not that big of a departure. It requires removing the windows, menu system and movable modal dialogs but it's not that big of a deal.
If you imagine removing the title bars from windows and have them stitched side by side with the main application window taking up almost the full size. The secondary level windows can be hidden in a split pane like a sliding doors UI. When you activate the split, it slides open and you jump between the full screen windows quickly. What it does need is a hover state so that you can activate before pressing.
The menu system could be just the Apple in the corner. When tapped or clicked, it expands to multi-level menu options radially or as horizontal blocks. This would convert the menu bar into more of a status bar like on iOS.
Exposé would still allow jumping between apps quickly.
The Finder would have to be totally redone but this is quite simple. It would convert from being an app to being a service (that could still be easily relaunched when it inevitably messes up of course). This can be a sidebar like the notification panel in OS X except always on the top layer. If you want to save a picture from a browser, you'd just drag the image (touch or mouse) over to the side and it would slide open the bar - this would still work on multiple displays as it would wait slightly for you to slow down your movement. This view has no horizontal scrolling. It's kind of a list view but shows a linear hierarchy and hovering over one of the hierarchy blocks would expand it vertically. This view is always on top and it would have an option for multiple columns so that you can set multiple views and drag between them or just compare files.
Spotlight would just be a search box at the top of each column and there would be command icons at the base to allow switching media type, all images, all movies, all music (can replace iTunes for playback) and the file view (not All My Files, it would have a hierarchy and maybe All My Files can be an option somewhere). Quicklook would be below the selected item or just have an icon to make a popup frame. Commands like new folder or drag and drop would be contextual and they can be done by holding down to bring up a command menu. Tap-hold can show the checkboxes for multiple selection and you can choose a move command which would show a confirm item at the top and then navigate to where you want and hit confirm.
This has to get rid of the handy Finder sidebar but those items would show on hovering over the top hierarchy item and this is a good way to show you which device you are on. Sometimes the sidebar loses the highlight so you can't tell if you are moving files on an external or internal drive.
The Dock would either be persistent or can be swiped in by swiping up from the bezel. You'd be able to launch apps using the app view they already have on OS X, the sidebar Finder or the Dock.
This UI would break away from using windows, would allow full filesystem access, should work equally well with a mouse or touch and would be fully multi-tasking. Instead of apps being overlapped, they sit inside their sliding doors and you just slide the panel splits open or shut. For apps like a calculator, it can waste vertical space but that's quite rare. It doesn't work so well under iOS as apps aren't typically designed for flexible layouts but it should work for a touch-enabled OS X.
I'm not entirely against their stance of not introducing touch into OS X as it works well just now and if they can't design the MBP like a slate (due to ports, weight, fans etc) then there's little point. I just like the additional functionality of iOS because of touch and would like to have it in OS X as I use OS X far more. I suspect additional touch capability will come through changes to the laptop base such as 3D sensors and larger capacitive areas, which is fine but I still want to use an OS X device like an iPad somehow.
Unless the iPad can replace the function of the laptop, it can't replace the laptop. People need mobile workstations.
Well, sure! And the iPad will grow to fit that requirement, both in capability and in size.
But the definition of mobile has shifted over the past fifteen years or so. “Mobile” today is far more iPad than it is MacBook. More carried tablet than seated laptop.
The menu system could be just the Apple in the corner. When tapped or clicked, it expands to multi-level menu options radially or as horizontal blocks. This would convert the menu bar into more of a status bar like on iOS.
Hmm. I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to erase the idea of a Menu Bar and integrate those options directly into drop downs in the application’s main UI bar itself.
What it does need is a hover state so that you can activate before pressing.
Why not just implement a swipe from the element itself? You know, swipe a direction on the item and the submenu for said item opens. Like the “delete” swipe in iOS.
The Dock would either be persistent or can be swiped in by swiping up from the bezel. You'd be able to launch apps using the app view they already have on OS X, the sidebar Finder or the Dock.
I think they might even get rid of the Dock entirely and… OH! No, what about this: Launchpad becomes the new “Dock”, meaning it operates like the Springboard in iOS but is still activated with the five-finger pinch of modern OS X with the Dock hidden at all other times. So wherever you are, doing whatever you are, five-finger pinch to get to the Launchpad where you can see all of the applications on your computer. On the Launchpad, you can drag an application down to the Dock to have it quickly accessible. So it’ll look just like it does right now, but the Dock will be a function of Launchpad rather than just still visible thereon.
Instead of apps being overlapped, they sit inside their sliding doors and you just slide the panel splits open or shut.
This reminds me of Microsoft Courier. Maybe that’s the reason I don’t think it would work that well… I’ve seen mockups of drawer-based OS’ before, but I don’t remember liking them. I’ll look some up.
For apps like a calculator…
Just permanently move Calculator, Stickies, Chess, and the like to Dashboard. Just turn the applications into widgets, removing no functionality.
I’m not entirely against their stance of not introducing touch into OS X…
I just don’t think they’ll do it half way, nor do I think they’ll leave a UX transition period. We’re in a UI transition right now, but I don’t see Apple making a computer that can be used with both a touchscreen and a mouse.
You don’t comprehend the slightest thing about what we’re discussing. You refuse to take the time to learn what we’re talking about so that you can intelligently respond. Stop talking about it and move on.
Nope. If you say something stupid I'll call you on it whether you like it or not when it amuses me to do so.
Nope. If you say something stupid I'll call you on it whether you like it or not when it amuses me to do so.
And if you twaddle on about a “future product” when we’re explicitly talking about a past product dreamed up only in the minds of analysts that not only did not exist but was never going to exist, I’ll call you out on it.
And if you twaddle on about a “future product” when we’re explicitly talking about a past product dreamed up only in the minds of analysts that not only did not exist but was never going to exist, I’ll call you out on it.
Read the discussion before commenting.
Lol. You read the discussion. The opinion of what any iPhone Nano was to be was all over the map depending on the analyst. For you to definitively claim that it had no wifi or whatever is laughable because other than "smaller" and "cheaper" you rarely got any detailed prediction.
And if you twaddle on about a “future product” when we’re explicitly talking about a past product dreamed up only in the minds of analysts that not only did not exist but was never going to exist, I’ll call you out on it.
Read the discussion before commenting.
I provided a link to a large number of analyst expectations for an iPhone Nano and not ONE predicted that the Nano would have no wifi as you insist is the widely accepted view of what the iPhone Nano was to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Your point is what?
Move them goalposts!
Which you are attempting to do with a random thread by a random user 5 years ago. You wrote minds of analysts not mind of Ireland or mind of random AI poster.
Wait, are you seriously saying that you expect anyone to read some dead thread from five years ago before commenting. ROFLMAO.
Talk about rolling on the floor. It’s just pathetic at this point. You’ll say anything as long as I’m wrong, won’t you?
It is amusing how you keep trying to dodge the essential point that you, of all the posters on this forum, have the least ground to accuse others of being wrong and telling them to shut up.
If you weren't such a jerk about it nobody would care when you were wrong. Everyone is wrong sometimes.
Comments
Steve is gone so no one will ever know if he would or wouldn't have done whatever.
So nice seeing folks talk to Apple/NeXT Alumni as if they are behind the times.
Mmmmmmmm… no. See, we didn’t know then about that. We know now about this. No one paying any attention whatsoever could think it was the same. It’s the difference between knowledge and ignorance. We were ignorant then. We are not ignorant here.
No. This interview provides no greater insight to Apple's roadmap than Steve Jobs comment regarding 7" tablets. You were just as adamant that Steve's comments then provide that the Mini would never happen.
Amazing that you know the exact specs of a product that has not (yet) been released. Analyst and forum member expectations of an iPhone Nano were all over the map. Apple's past moves, however, would indicate that they don't do cheaper but they like to do smaller. The difference between an iPhone Nano and a feature phone would likely be like the difference between a MBA and a netbook. So possibly no Safari because the screen is too small but Mail, Message and WiFi likely in. Certainly it would have video, music and camera.
It is safe to state that Apple would not likely do a cheap feature phone to simply capture volume. What is also safe to say is that if Apple determined that they could do a feature phone correctly, like they determined that they could do the netbook correctly, and create a whole new product segment (like they did with ultra books) they would do so.
What YOU do is state that anyone who believes in the latter is wrong because you believe in the first statement. The fact is that the two positions are not mutually exclusive.
I understand that you are a bully.
Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.
If you look at touchscreen input research they never are vertical but are horizontal work surfaces. The problem is you need to be able to generate this work surface in a cost effective manner that is as thin as a desk blotter or it will alway be some odd workaround like top down projection (3M), bottom projection (MS Surface...the old tabletop version) or a HDTV embedded into a desk with a touch surface on top.
Folks that prattle on about how your arms would get tired from lifting it all day are creating a straw man.
If MS were to implement this I'm sure it would be full of animated tiles distracting you all the time. I would hazard a guess that Apple would make it a much more refined experience even at rev 1.0.
I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.
My guess is they really hate that extra thickness currently required for a digitizer and don't want to add a stylus natively.
Amazing that you know the exact specs of a product that has not (yet) been released.
You don’t comprehend the slightest thing about what we’re discussing. You refuse to take the time to learn what we’re talking about so that you can intelligently respond. Stop talking about it and move on.
Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.
I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.
I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.
Hopefully the iPad Pro....
On the topic of input accessories, the new input kits from Palette Gear sounds pretty neat for customised actions. I'm waiting for the reviews before I order it.
To my view anything a mouse can do a stylus on a Wacom tablet can do better*. And take up FAR less desk real-estate doing it. OTOH choice is good so leaving that to outside manufacturers such as Wacom is okay by me.
* Mouse-free for close to two decades...
This might conflict with the idea of tablets replacing laptops you mentioned in the past though:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/150808/2012-mac-mini-wish-list/320#post_2195238
"The iPad will replace laptops entirely. Then the desktop will see a huge resurgence."
Unless the iPad can replace the function of the laptop, it can't replace the laptop. People need mobile workstations.
I want to be able to interact with OS X using touch. It does need a new UI but it's not that big of a departure. It requires removing the windows, menu system and movable modal dialogs but it's not that big of a deal.
If you imagine removing the title bars from windows and have them stitched side by side with the main application window taking up almost the full size. The secondary level windows can be hidden in a split pane like a sliding doors UI. When you activate the split, it slides open and you jump between the full screen windows quickly. What it does need is a hover state so that you can activate before pressing.
The menu system could be just the Apple in the corner. When tapped or clicked, it expands to multi-level menu options radially or as horizontal blocks. This would convert the menu bar into more of a status bar like on iOS.
Exposé would still allow jumping between apps quickly.
The Finder would have to be totally redone but this is quite simple. It would convert from being an app to being a service (that could still be easily relaunched when it inevitably messes up of course). This can be a sidebar like the notification panel in OS X except always on the top layer. If you want to save a picture from a browser, you'd just drag the image (touch or mouse) over to the side and it would slide open the bar - this would still work on multiple displays as it would wait slightly for you to slow down your movement. This view has no horizontal scrolling. It's kind of a list view but shows a linear hierarchy and hovering over one of the hierarchy blocks would expand it vertically. This view is always on top and it would have an option for multiple columns so that you can set multiple views and drag between them or just compare files.
Spotlight would just be a search box at the top of each column and there would be command icons at the base to allow switching media type, all images, all movies, all music (can replace iTunes for playback) and the file view (not All My Files, it would have a hierarchy and maybe All My Files can be an option somewhere). Quicklook would be below the selected item or just have an icon to make a popup frame. Commands like new folder or drag and drop would be contextual and they can be done by holding down to bring up a command menu. Tap-hold can show the checkboxes for multiple selection and you can choose a move command which would show a confirm item at the top and then navigate to where you want and hit confirm.
This has to get rid of the handy Finder sidebar but those items would show on hovering over the top hierarchy item and this is a good way to show you which device you are on. Sometimes the sidebar loses the highlight so you can't tell if you are moving files on an external or internal drive.
The Dock would either be persistent or can be swiped in by swiping up from the bezel. You'd be able to launch apps using the app view they already have on OS X, the sidebar Finder or the Dock.
This UI would break away from using windows, would allow full filesystem access, should work equally well with a mouse or touch and would be fully multi-tasking. Instead of apps being overlapped, they sit inside their sliding doors and you just slide the panel splits open or shut. For apps like a calculator, it can waste vertical space but that's quite rare. It doesn't work so well under iOS as apps aren't typically designed for flexible layouts but it should work for a touch-enabled OS X.
I'm not entirely against their stance of not introducing touch into OS X as it works well just now and if they can't design the MBP like a slate (due to ports, weight, fans etc) then there's little point. I just like the additional functionality of iOS because of touch and would like to have it in OS X as I use OS X far more. I suspect additional touch capability will come through changes to the laptop base such as 3D sensors and larger capacitive areas, which is fine but I still want to use an OS X device like an iPad somehow.
Well, sure! And the iPad will grow to fit that requirement, both in capability and in size.
But the definition of mobile has shifted over the past fifteen years or so. “Mobile” today is far more iPad than it is MacBook. More carried tablet than seated laptop.
Hmm. I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to erase the idea of a Menu Bar and integrate those options directly into drop downs in the application’s main UI bar itself.
Why not just implement a swipe from the element itself? You know, swipe a direction on the item and the submenu for said item opens. Like the “delete” swipe in iOS.
I think they might even get rid of the Dock entirely and… OH! No, what about this: Launchpad becomes the new “Dock”, meaning it operates like the Springboard in iOS but is still activated with the five-finger pinch of modern OS X with the Dock hidden at all other times. So wherever you are, doing whatever you are, five-finger pinch to get to the Launchpad where you can see all of the applications on your computer. On the Launchpad, you can drag an application down to the Dock to have it quickly accessible. So it’ll look just like it does right now, but the Dock will be a function of Launchpad rather than just still visible thereon.
This reminds me of Microsoft Courier. Maybe that’s the reason I don’t think it would work that well… I’ve seen mockups of drawer-based OS’ before, but I don’t remember liking them. I’ll look some up.
Just permanently move Calculator, Stickies, Chess, and the like to Dashboard. Just turn the applications into widgets, removing no functionality.
I just don’t think they’ll do it half way, nor do I think they’ll leave a UX transition period. We’re in a UI transition right now, but I don’t see Apple making a computer that can be used with both a touchscreen and a mouse.
You don’t comprehend the slightest thing about what we’re discussing. You refuse to take the time to learn what we’re talking about so that you can intelligently respond. Stop talking about it and move on.
Nope. If you say something stupid I'll call you on it whether you like it or not when it amuses me to do so.
Nope. If you say something stupid I'll call you on it whether you like it or not when it amuses me to do so.
And if you twaddle on about a “future product” when we’re explicitly talking about a past product dreamed up only in the minds of analysts that not only did not exist but was never going to exist, I’ll call you out on it.
Read the discussion before commenting.
Lol. You read the discussion. The opinion of what any iPhone Nano was to be was all over the map depending on the analyst. For you to definitively claim that it had no wifi or whatever is laughable because other than "smaller" and "cheaper" you rarely got any detailed prediction.
http://techland.time.com/2012/04/23/cheap-iphone/
There isn't any predictions I found in this long list of Nano predictions that states no wifi or no safari or no mail.
So you're arrogantly insisting something you're wrong about again and telling others to shut up.
Maybe use more than one source, then.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/82713/iphone-nano-is-coming-october-2008-heres-my-thinking
Lol, that's Ireland and not even a AI official article of which at least two were listed in the link I provided.
Obviously you didn't even click the link or you'd have realized it contained a large number of Nano predictions starting from as early as 2007.
And folks in that thread thought no wifi and no browser was stupid anyway so it is hardly even forum consensus.
Your point is what?
Move them goalposts!
This is what you wrote.
Quote:
And if you twaddle on about a “future product” when we’re explicitly talking about a past product dreamed up only in the minds of analysts that not only did not exist but was never going to exist, I’ll call you out on it.
Read the discussion before commenting.
I provided a link to a large number of analyst expectations for an iPhone Nano and not ONE predicted that the Nano would have no wifi as you insist is the widely accepted view of what the iPhone Nano was to be.
Quote:
Your point is what?
Move them goalposts!
Which you are attempting to do with a random thread by a random user 5 years ago. You wrote minds of analysts not mind of Ireland or mind of random AI poster.
Wait, are you seriously saying that you expect anyone to read some dead thread from five years ago before commenting. ROFLMAO.
You are such a piss poor troll.
Talk about rolling on the floor. It’s just pathetic at this point. You’ll say anything as long as I’m wrong, won’t you?
Talk about rolling on the floor. It’s just pathetic at this point. You’ll say anything as long as I’m wrong, won’t you?
It is amusing how you keep trying to dodge the essential point that you, of all the posters on this forum, have the least ground to accuse others of being wrong and telling them to shut up.
If you weren't such a jerk about it nobody would care when you were wrong. Everyone is wrong sometimes.