Apple's iPhone marketshare dips in Q4, Samsung falters under pressure from low-cost OEMs

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  • Reply 61 of 86
    Originally Posted by Joe Mecca View Post

    I'm finished. Going to remove Appleinsider from my shortcut bar and google currents. They don't provide any useful information - good bye, everyone and I've enjoyed reading all your comments of the years.

     

    Now if only the rest of the trolls would do that.

  • Reply 62 of 86
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     

     

    This is exactly why I bought a Nexus 5. It's exacerbated by this:


    • Nexus 5 32Gb - £339.00 ~ $560

    • iPhone 5s 32Gb - £629.00 ~ $1040

    • iPhone 5c 32Gb - £469.00 ~ $777

     

    That's an awfully big difference for me too. I just can't justify spending an extra £290, nearly an extra N5 16Gb for the 5s. It's not the only concern of course but as you said, the N5 is a very capable phone.


     

    But a lot more goes into it than just what you dish out of pocket at at buy time.  At least for me.

     

    For instance, there's essentially no way I would ever abandon the iOS ecosystem at this point.  Not only do I have thousands of dollars invested in it over the years, but I'm completely familiar with it, it is like an old friend -- an old friend I trust.

     

    Also, here in the US where we have subsidized prices, I don't really have to pay (out of pocket) for a new iPhone.  That's why I upgrade every year now.  Last year, for instance, Gazelle gave me $30 more than I paid for for my iPhone 5.  So, I was able to upgrade to a 5S, with double the storage, for $69.

     

    So, to me, at least here, a lot more considerations than the initial price tag go into the decision making process.

  • Reply 63 of 86

    The high end of the smartphone market is quite saturated. Moreover, since most flagship devices like the iPhone 5s, the nexus 5, Moto X,  etc, are more or less comparable in functionality, there is not much incentive for anyone who already has one of those devices to switch, particularly if he has already invested in the ecosystem. The marketshare of various companies at the high end probably will look quite similar a year from now. Therefore, the next marketshare battle is going to be fought in the low end. Samsung needs to up its game if it's going to compete the with the likes of the Moto G. 

  • Reply 64 of 86
    gwmac wrote: »
    A year or more ago the cheap low end Android smartphones truly were incapable of doing much of anything. Phones like the original LG Optimus from 4 years ago for example only had a 3.2" display, very limited storage, and a very slow CPU. If you paid less that $400 for a phone you were assured of having a very inferior and frustrating experience. But that really is no longer the case. At $349 for 16GB and only $399 for 32GB the Nexus 5 is an extremely capable phone and matches up pretty well with even the 5s on a number of tests. 
    http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/review/2322580/iphone-5s-vs-nexus-5-vs-galaxy-s4-head-to-head-review

    The iPhone certainly has a better build quality and is a better phone overall than the Nexus 5 but at $399 for the 32GB version unlocked vs. $749 for the unlocked 5s is the advantage that big? My point is that Apple can no longer count on all these cheap and low end phones to offer a terrible experience as was the case a few years ago. The Nexus 5 has LTE, a 5" display with a higher PPI than the iPhone, 32GB of storage, and can play games and surf the web very fast and beats the 5s in battery life. Like the iPhone no bloatware or crapware from the carrier is installed either on Nexus phones. 
    https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_5_32GB_Black?id=nexus_5_black_32gb&hl=en

    I agree that there are some amazing Android phones starting at $349

    But how much of the smartphone market is made up of phones below $349?

    When the market share numbers come out each quarter... they simply say "Android has 80% of the smartphone market" but with no breakdown by price, quality or capability. A cheap Android phone carries the same weight as a flagship Android phone in terms of market share.

    Like you said... $349 gets you a pretty nice Android phone. But we know there are Android phones being sold in some parts of the world for $80 unlocked. And those happen to be in some very populous countries.

    So isn't it safe to say that there are still quite a few cheap crappy Android phones being sold today?

    We only ever talk about the famous flagship Android phones... Galaxy S4, Note 3, LG G2, Nexus 5, HTC One, etc... but those don't make up the majority of Android. We're forgetting about the "other" category which includes tons of cheap Android phones in China, India, etc.
  • Reply 65 of 86
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    The high end of the smartphone market is quite saturated. Moreover, since most flagship devices like the iPhone 5s, the nexus 5, Moto X,  etc, are more or less comparable in functionality, there is not much incentive for anyone who already has one of those devices to switch, particularly if he has already invested in the ecosystem. The marketshare of various companies at the high end probably will look quite similar a year from now. Therefore, the next marketshare battle is going to be fought in the low end. Samsung needs to up its game if it's going to compete the with the likes of the Moto G. 


     

    However, there are only two companies on Planet Earth making any profits from selling smartphones, and those two are obviously Apple and Samsung.  Everyone else -- EVERYONE -- is losing money.

     

    Now, for a company like Google, they don't really give a $#%@, since HW isn't their business anyways.  And for someone like LG, it doesn't really matter, since they make most of their money with other stuff.  

     

    But you look at someone like RIM ... ouch.  And HTC?  Moto had to be bought up by Google.

  • Reply 66 of 86

    Two comments on the general discussion going on so far...

     

    1.) Developers abandoned the Mac not just because of market share, but because of how difficult it was to code for the Classic Mac OS at the time when the growth of Windows was exploding.  With Apple using Motorola/PPC processors at the time, there was a significant amount of diversity between Windows/Intel and Mac code bases where the low market share made it not worth it for many software developers when it came to the bottom line.  When Apple switched to OS X running on Intel, many vendors came back to developing for the Mac because it did not take a significant amount of work to port their Windows/Intel code back to OS X on x86, and where the potential to add another 10% of the PC market share to your list of potential customers made the additional work worth it.  Fast forward to iOS, Apple is already using ARM based CPU's, as is all of Apple's primary mobile competitors (Samsung, HTC, Motorola/Google, etc).  Keeping code bases between the different platforms, despite the different development tools, isn't that difficult for developers, even if Apple continues to lose market share.



    2.) These market share numbers are misleading in terms of Android activations.  Many inexpensive "dumb phones" and feature phones are now using Android as a base operating system.  Though many times they may not be used/implemented/enabled for all their smartphone features, they are still being counted among Android activation numbers.  The most important numbers should be the comparison of Apple iOS versus Android on smartphones sold by primary manufacturers (Samsung, HTC, Motorola/Google), in terms of market share.  Those companies are Apple's primary competition for customers, and if Apple begins to lose significant amounts of share to those primary manufacturers, then there are going to be problems down the road.  I don't think comparing Apple's numbers against what could be entirely different markets gets you anywhere.



    Apple/iOS will continue to be the "market leader", despite market share numbers, for the next three years.  After that, we'll see where the competition is in terms of market share, customer satisfaction, and profit.

  • Reply 67 of 86
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Now if only the rest of the trolls would do that.




    His post said he joined Apr 13. lol

  • Reply 68 of 86
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    His post said he joined Apr 13. lol


     

    I noticed that, too.

     

    OTOH, he could have been reading this site for years before joining.  If we want to give him the benefit of the doubt. :)

  • Reply 69 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by philgar View Post

     

    The comparison of apple's iphone to Ferrari is extremely old and just plain doesn't work. .....

     

    Either way, Apple's market share is WAY too bit for them to not care about it. ....

     

    Phil


    Absolutely Phil

     

    The point I think you miss here, is that the research figures dont tell us anything.  As we really dont know what the metrics are. Of course the Ferrari example is just that. What I am saying is that we have no idea from THESE figures what is going on. You say that Apple's Market share is WAY to big, but how is that defined.

     

    Now we can get some clues from the data. Japan and US figures give some indication that wealthier society's and hence wealthier buyers appear to prefer Apple. But we have no accurate way of telling if this is where Samsung is gaining losing ground or whether or not other players are getting a foothold.

     

    Europe shows an Android trend, but again what part of the European market? We still have no real clues only guesses. Like I pointed out with my Father in Law. That example is to show how the data COULD mean anything, but its by no way indicative.

     

    Its not even an indication whether or not another manufacturer is buying market share, as I was using in a limited writing timeframe to highlight with Ferrari.

     

    The facts here are so broad, it can hide so much. No Product Manager could decipher any meaningful trend or data from THESE figures. All they are useful for is that the research company hopefully can get some headlines, but even that I doubt will be of business use to them, as the only ones who would pay them for this data should see that this would be worthless.

     

    Now if they had data which was broken up into price bands, product features etc you might get some clue, but in reality they wont have these figures, how can you tell how many $20 phones are being sold by street vendors for example in Vietnam, China, Mexico.. Ever been there some have phones that include models like Nokia 3210's (Not exactly that model, but you get the drift).  Are the "sales" quoted to end users or distributors or dealers.

    And the figures only tell us how may iphones Apple sells, but not the mix. Likewise if Samsung never sold one S4, during this eriod, THESE figures will not tell you that. You have to use other information, and what and how reliable is that. Figures from Samsung? Who used various figures even in their recent court case. And really why would they want others to know that.

     

    So back to my point, rather than my examples.

     

    THESE figures mean nothing.

  • Reply 70 of 86
    Quote:


    Apple's iPhone marketshare dips in Q4, Samsung falters under pressure from low-cost OEMs

     



     

    Excuse me, Mr. Headline-writer, but Apple's iPhone marketshare is, and always has been, 100%.

     

    Apostrophes matter.

  • Reply 71 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     

    Could you kindly tell us what is your monthly data plan fee?


     

    I have a Nexus 4 that I bought for $300. I pay $30/month w/out contract. Data is unlimited, throttled at 5GB. Granted the same plan would work with an unlocked iPhone, but the $300 phone is a significant price difference. All the apps my family and I use work the same on their iOS 7 devices as on my Nexus 4. All the devices are a pleasure to use, I just didn't feel like tossing an extra $350 into a phone -- and bought a Canon speedlight instead.

  • Reply 72 of 86
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    I trust Apple knows what it's doing compared to advice from some random guy on the internet.

    Apple will never compete with the cheap phones. Why doesn't BMW release a sub $10000 car or Tiffany's sell costume jewelry? There is no money in it for them.

    Exactly. Once they hit the bottom for low end competitions, no one wants an Apple product anymore. One example: Rock & Republic jeans: it's $200+ pair of jeans were symbol of luxury until they became Kolh's store brand at $45/pair and no one even bought them.

  • Reply 73 of 86
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    This is absolutely the wrong outlook for Apple.  I agree that Apple shouldn't compete at the very lowest levels, but there is an enormous gap below the 5C that they need to fill.  A high-quality $250 phone is not out of Apple's reach.  Such a phone wouldn't matter so much in America, the land of carrier subsidies, as it would overseas in developing markets.

    Edit: I've said it before and I'll say it again - the Moto G is a device that should be striking fear into the hearts of Apple and Samsung.  It costs less than $200 and gives the user a great experience with an unbelievable value quotient.  The average person doesn't need any more from a phone.  The G is the future of the low-end market, and it will probably have an impact on the market's idea of what a phone should cost, even at the high end.

    1. How much money are those companies making?
    2. How can you release cheap hardware and not cannibalize the premium iphone.
    3. How can you make 30-40 margins on cheap hardware that isn't using cheap, out if date components.
  • Reply 74 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     

    Could you kindly tell us what is your monthly data plan fee?




    I don't have one. I pay $17 or so for unlimited access on the months that I need it. There's a lot of UK MVNOs now, https://giffgaff.com/ is the company that really kicked it all off.

  • Reply 75 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

     

     

    But a lot more goes into it than just what you dish out of pocket at at buy time.  At least for me.

     

    For instance, there's essentially no way I would ever abandon the iOS ecosystem at this point.  Not only do I have thousands of dollars invested in it over the years, but I'm completely familiar with it, it is like an old friend -- an old friend I trust.


    That's true, but I am not tied down to iTunes or iOS and so I have a relatively free choice. To be honest I consider being tied down a huge negative, as I don't like the way OSX is going and I don't really love the style of iOS7 so being able to just opt out is fine with me.

  • Reply 76 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    I have a Nexus 4 that I bought for $300. I pay $30/month w/out contract. Data is unlimited, throttled at 5GB. Granted the same plan would work with an unlocked iPhone, but the $300 phone is a significant price difference. All the apps my family and I use work the same on their iOS 7 devices as on my Nexus 4. All the devices are a pleasure to use, I just didn't feel like tossing an extra $350 into a phone -- and bought a Canon speedlight instead.


     

    I see things in exactly the same way. I bought a pair of Nexus 7s for family members too and that was about as much as I saved. They're not the best tablets around but they don't need to be, they'll get dropped or scratched eventually and I prefer to replace a < £200 device than a ~£450+ one.

     

    Oh, and I bought a Nissin with what I had left :)

  • Reply 77 of 86
    jungmark wrote: »
    1. How much money are those companies making?
    2. How can you release cheap hardware and not cannibalize the premium iphone.
    3. How can you make 30-40 margins on cheap hardware that isn't using cheap, out if date components.

    1. Samsung is quite profitable and has models in the lowest price brackets. Like Apple would have to do, Samsung uses the margins on high end devices to cover the reduced margins on low end devices.

    2. There would be clear differentiation in the hardware that would basically eliminate cross shopping. Touch ID, the high end camera, the metal body, the coprocessor, and maybe more would be cut to each the lower price point. The software and user experience of the high end model could remain more or less intact.

    3. Margins could probably hit 30%. Back to the Moto G example, if Apple can match that phone in capability and quality for the same cost as Motorola (though I suspect Apple can do better since they have the supply chain sorted out), then a $250 price point gives a 28% margin even if we imagine Moto to be selling at cost.
  • Reply 78 of 86
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    1. Samsung is quite profitable and has models in the lowest price brackets. Like Apple would have to do, Samsung uses the margins on high end devices to cover the reduced margins on low end devices.

    2. There would be clear differentiation in the hardware that would basically eliminate cross shopping. Touch ID, the high end camera, the metal body, the coprocessor, and maybe more would be cut to each the lower price point. The software and user experience of the high end model could remain more or less intact.

    3. Margins could probably hit 30%. Back to the Moto G example, if Apple can match that phone in capability and quality for the same cost as Motorola (though I suspect Apple can do better since they have the supply chain sorted out), then a $250 price point gives a 28% margin even if we imagine Moto to be selling at cost.

    1. How much is from the high end phones. How much is from the low end. Need I remind you that Sammy said they might miss expectations and that Apple is more profitable?
    2. So basically they can sell the 4S for free w contract. Oh wait.

    3. How well is the Moto G selling and how much margins does it provide to Google? Here's the thing, WS will kill Apple for MS and lower margins. So why bother trying to please WS?
  • Reply 79 of 86
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post

     

    That's true, but I am not tied down to iTunes or iOS and so I have a relatively free choice. To be honest I consider being tied down a huge negative, as I don't like the way OSX is going and I don't really love the style of iOS7 so being able to just opt out is fine with me.


     

    It's interesting to me that you interpreted what I said as my being "tied down."

     

    I'm not "tied down" by any means.  If I wanted an Android phone, say a Samsung GS4 or whatever, I would go out tomorrow and buy one.  I don't want one, though.  And a big part of the reason why I don't want an Android phone is because I don't TRUST Android.  I've been using iOS, in one iteration or another, since 2007 and the original iPhone.  In that time, I've had 8 different iPhones/iPads.  I know how the stuff works, I know what to expect, I trust both the OS and the App Store.

     

    Trust is important to me.  Having a sense of familiarity is important to me.  I have both of these with iOS, while also appreciating both the hardware and software design.

     

    Hope that clarifies things.

  • Reply 80 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

     

     

    It's interesting to me that you interpreted what I said as my being "tied down."

     

    I'm not "tied down" by any means.  If I wanted an Android phone, say a Samsung GS4 or whatever, I would go out tomorrow and buy one.


     

    Right but as you pointed out you have thousands of dollars invested in the platform and you are intimately familiar with its use. That is being tied down whether or not you consider that a negative thing.

     

     

    I do not distrust Android or iOS. I also don't have much in the way of purchases that can only work with iTunes or lightning etc. Everything is mp3 and usb so I don't have the same restrictions. I'm not criticising, just commenting.

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