it is a lovely picture, but it doesn't prove anything
It would if you looked at it.
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Ignoring the costs of legal suits leveraging this junk patent list tells me Wall Street doesn’t know jack about economics, nor technology, but only speculation. They do however see every little venture Google attempts [Fiber for instance] and leverage the hell out of that pipe dream as becoming the next ATT or Verizon to justify their ballooned P/E valuation.
I’m really surprised he didn’t understand that.
Originally Posted by tzeshan
Google is smarter than Apple.
Did you think you could slip that in and no one would call out this nonsense?
I always wonder that if Google hadn't been so greedy, (and it's very possible that Google may just run by a bunch of people with no business sense what so ever.) would Motorola (instead of Samsung) now be the largest cell phone maker or second behind Apple. All Google had to do was to exclusively license Android to Motorola. By shutting out the foreign cell phone makers of Android, the US with Apple and Motorola may have dominated. (Without Android, Samsung (iPhone rip off) Galaxy line wouldn't even be near as popular as they are now.) Not to mention that Microsoft might even be number 3. The US may have been in control of the technology in the cell phone market. But Google got greedy and gave Android away to all the cell phone makers that wanted to use it. And in the end, even with Android having the lion share of the market, Google still makes over 75% of their mobile revenue from Apple iOS. Google never wanted to compete in the cellphone market. They don't know how. They just wanted to make sure that as many cell phones as possible, have something with Google in it. Even if they have to lose money to accomplish it. And for this, they destroyed a US company whose history goes back to when tube radios was the cutting edge in technology. Google couldn't care less.
What a strange way of looking at it. Google has brilliantly maneuvered themselves so they profit no matter who wins the hardware race. They have no intention, and never had any intention of competing in the handset market. They've positioned themselves as a utility skimming money off users of any devices. I find it interesting that you call this 'greedy'. Do you know what percentage of the worldwide advertising market Google owns and do you know the relative growth of mobile versus traditional media (print/radio/tv)?
I also find it odd that you don't realise the US has taken over the smartphone market from Europe and Canada (Nokia and Blackberry). What do you suppose the combined market share of Android/IOS/Windows Phone 8 is? The hardware manufacturing will always be done in low cost centres by companies like Hon Hai and did you really think the Asian electronics firms wouldn't play a key role in hardware design? Apple is an outlier, albeit a very successful one. Google is trading at a P/E of 32.7 and Apple at 12.4, why do you suppose this is?
Did you think you could slip that in and no one would call out this nonsense?
I think Apple management is very poor in math. They are so obsessed with profit margins that they failed to keep the market share. The iPads are losing market share. One reason is many Android tablet starts with 32 GB. Apple could easily increase the memory of base iPad Air and iPad mini to 32 GB and sell millions more that 26 million. It will get less than $100 for each of the 26 million iPads. The maximum loss is $2.6 billion. This loss is easily recovered by the profits of the additional millions sold. Apple will further get a lot of praise for the yoy increases.
Apple did not do what I said. I can only conclude that Apple management is very poor in math.
I think Apple management is very poor in math. They are so obsessed with profit margins that they failed to keep the market share. The iPads are losing market share. One reason is many Android tablet starts with 32 GB. Apple could easily increase the memory of base iPad Air and iPad mini to 32 GB and sell millions more that 26 million. It will get less than $100 for each of the 26 million iPads. The maximum loss is $2.6 billion. This loss is easily recovered by the profits of the additional millions sold. Apple will further get a lot of praise for the yoy increases.
Apple did not do what I said. I can only conclude that Apple management is very poor in math.
To an extent, Apple doesn't care about market share. It doesn't worship at the alter of Market share. Lots of those cheap Androids are pos.
Apple has $14 billion more after earnings report. AAPL dropped $50 after the report.
No, everyone expected Apple to have that, whereas no one knew what the heck Google was doing buying Moto, and at least now they have cut their losses (it is clear that the patent portfolio is not worth $10BN, but it is worth something).
From reading the HN thread it looks like Google's total loss was about $1B and they retain control of a significant number of patents, who knows how valuable they could be: https://investor.google.com/releases/2014/0129.html
A shame really, although Lenovo could be a good driver, I just hate all the crap you see bundled onto Samsung phones. Lets hope Motorola stick with their current strategy, Moto X and G are both lovely phones.
Certainly the Lenovo thinkpad line has stopped including a lot of bloatware, so their thinking might have changed.
Lenovo - "Playing a significant role in the company's success is its relatively low-cost offerings."
Another company run by geniuses racing to the bottom. And a 10 billion dollar loss for the big G - couldn't have happened to nicer bunch of evil doers.
Lenovo does very well, and their PC business has a very nice premium component [the thinkpad line]. You have no clue.
Right on. It's all about Samsung. Samsung IS Android, which is no longer an open operating system. Developers are writing for Samsung custom routines, as they should.
Google will loose everything if they can't take back control.
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Foxconn and other assemblers install Apple specified manufacturing hardware and follow Apple procedures to the letter to build their products. Apple essentially installs their own manufacturing lines into their empty factories. Perhaps you lack a fundamental understanding of the contract manufacturing process as it relates to modern technology? Perhaps the final parts assembly line is staffed by foreign workers, the entire process is US made.
While your personal distinction might be personally meaningful, as a patriotic gesture its totally moot, if not hurting the cause. Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
And you know this all how? SInce Apple had not manufactured anything in decades (before last year), it is hard to believe that they had much manufacturing expertise, while Foxconn makes a lot of stuff for a lot of people, and has for those same decades. If you want to be a chauvinist/racist/all around jerk, that's your right (but it does not make you right).
A couple day AI has an article that showed that. You missed it?
Must have. I don’t recall an article with the title
Apple Management Fails Remedial Elementary Addition, is doomed
From the discussion with you in another article I noticed you are like Apple management poor in math.
2+2 equals $13.8 billion in profit and increasing product marketshare, which is all that Wall Street cares about every day of the year EXCEPT Apple’s quarterly earning calls.
That's not right. When Google wrote off the $1.7B in losses, they only gained the taxes that would have been paid on $1.7B. The write off is deducted from any profit before taxes. Google did not write off $1.7B from the taxes they had to pay. So Google did not gain $1.7B from the write off, more like about $450M. (based on a 25% tax rate)
That is, unless you meant that Google actually gained $1.7B from a tax write off of around $7B.
The Forbes article it came from treated it as $1.7 Bill off the original price, so I don't know if they had it wrong or if it was factored in correctly.... I think the 5,400,000 the orignal author came up with as a price also did not include the $2.9 billion motorolla had in cash at the time. Forbes had Google paying a total of around $1.7 bil for the Moto deal. That was calculated years ago before the sale to Lenovo so if that is true Google would have made money on the sale (not accounting for the losses Moto had from operations).
When you factor in Google kept all their advanced technology patents and divisions from the deal they really didn't do as poorly as the haters are really really wishing they did. And they kept the bit I'm most curious about, project Ara.
Comments
It would if you looked at it.
Ignoring the costs of legal suits leveraging this junk patent list tells me Wall Street doesn’t know jack about economics, nor technology, but only speculation. They do however see every little venture Google attempts [Fiber for instance] and leverage the hell out of that pipe dream as becoming the next ATT or Verizon to justify their ballooned P/E valuation.
I’m really surprised he didn’t understand that.
Did you think you could slip that in and no one would call out this nonsense?
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/29/nest-team-will-become-googles-core-hardware-group/
I always wonder that if Google hadn't been so greedy, (and it's very possible that Google may just run by a bunch of people with no business sense what so ever.) would Motorola (instead of Samsung) now be the largest cell phone maker or second behind Apple. All Google had to do was to exclusively license Android to Motorola. By shutting out the foreign cell phone makers of Android, the US with Apple and Motorola may have dominated. (Without Android, Samsung (iPhone rip off) Galaxy line wouldn't even be near as popular as they are now.) Not to mention that Microsoft might even be number 3. The US may have been in control of the technology in the cell phone market. But Google got greedy and gave Android away to all the cell phone makers that wanted to use it. And in the end, even with Android having the lion share of the market, Google still makes over 75% of their mobile revenue from Apple iOS. Google never wanted to compete in the cellphone market. They don't know how. They just wanted to make sure that as many cell phones as possible, have something with Google in it. Even if they have to lose money to accomplish it. And for this, they destroyed a US company whose history goes back to when tube radios was the cutting edge in technology. Google couldn't care less.
What a strange way of looking at it. Google has brilliantly maneuvered themselves so they profit no matter who wins the hardware race. They have no intention, and never had any intention of competing in the handset market. They've positioned themselves as a utility skimming money off users of any devices. I find it interesting that you call this 'greedy'. Do you know what percentage of the worldwide advertising market Google owns and do you know the relative growth of mobile versus traditional media (print/radio/tv)?
I also find it odd that you don't realise the US has taken over the smartphone market from Europe and Canada (Nokia and Blackberry). What do you suppose the combined market share of Android/IOS/Windows Phone 8 is? The hardware manufacturing will always be done in low cost centres by companies like Hon Hai and did you really think the Asian electronics firms wouldn't play a key role in hardware design? Apple is an outlier, albeit a very successful one. Google is trading at a P/E of 32.7 and Apple at 12.4, why do you suppose this is?
Did you think you could slip that in and no one would call out this nonsense?
I think Apple management is very poor in math. They are so obsessed with profit margins that they failed to keep the market share. The iPads are losing market share. One reason is many Android tablet starts with 32 GB. Apple could easily increase the memory of base iPad Air and iPad mini to 32 GB and sell millions more that 26 million. It will get less than $100 for each of the 26 million iPads. The maximum loss is $2.6 billion. This loss is easily recovered by the profits of the additional millions sold. Apple will further get a lot of praise for the yoy increases.
Apple did not do what I said. I can only conclude that Apple management is very poor in math.
Reportedly Google is not giving up on hardware. On the contrary . . .
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/29/nest-team-will-become-googles-core-hardware-group/
Because Google knows it can not make money compete directly with Apple products.
And Google is up $12 from this news after hours.
WTF.
They have $3bn more than before the announcement. What's not to like?
They have $3bn more than before the announcement. What's not to like?
Apple has $14 billion more after earnings report. AAPL dropped $50 after the report.
To an extent, Apple doesn't care about market share. It doesn't worship at the alter of Market share. Lots of those cheap Androids are pos.
To an extent, Apple doesn't care about market share. It doesn't worship at the alter of Market share. Lots of those cheap Androids are pos.
I know Apple said it cares its users. Then 32 GB iPad Air starting at $499 will make a lot its users happy.
Who knows maybe Apple will do this on the next revision. Free Macs also make users happy too.
Apple has $14 billion more after earnings report. AAPL dropped $50 after the report.
No, everyone expected Apple to have that, whereas no one knew what the heck Google was doing buying Moto, and at least now they have cut their losses (it is clear that the patent portfolio is not worth $10BN, but it is worth something).
The iPads are losing market share.
Any proof of that?
Apple did not do what I said. I can only conclude that Apple management is very poor in math.
That works pretty well in a world where you mean anything to anyone at Apple or having any measure of control over anything.
Not our world, though. Come off it.
Any proof of that?
That works pretty well in a world where you mean anything to anyone at Apple or having any measure of control over anything.
Not our world, though. Come off it.
A couple day AI has an article that showed that. You missed it?
From the discussion with you in another article I noticed you are like Apple management poor in math.
Who knows maybe Apple will do this on the next revision. Free Macs also make users happy too.
A big difference. Apple lose money with free Macs. Apple still make money with a $499 32 GB iPad Air.
From reading the HN thread it looks like Google's total loss was about $1B and they retain control of a significant number of patents, who knows how valuable they could be: https://investor.google.com/releases/2014/0129.html
A shame really, although Lenovo could be a good driver, I just hate all the crap you see bundled onto Samsung phones. Lets hope Motorola stick with their current strategy, Moto X and G are both lovely phones.
Certainly the Lenovo thinkpad line has stopped including a lot of bloatware, so their thinking might have changed.
Lenovo - "Playing a significant role in the company's success is its relatively low-cost offerings."
Another company run by geniuses racing to the bottom. And a 10 billion dollar loss for the big G - couldn't have happened to nicer bunch of evil doers.
Lenovo does very well, and their PC business has a very nice premium component [the thinkpad line]. You have no clue.
Right on. It's all about Samsung. Samsung IS Android, which is no longer an open operating system. Developers are writing for Samsung custom routines, as they should.
Google will loose everything if they can't take back control.
You do realize that Apple designs not only the phone software, but hardware in the US? Further 100% of the manufacturing processes and machinery are designed in the US, which are then exported and installed in locations in China?
Foxconn and other assemblers install Apple specified manufacturing hardware and follow Apple procedures to the letter to build their products. Apple essentially installs their own manufacturing lines into their empty factories. Perhaps you lack a fundamental understanding of the contract manufacturing process as it relates to modern technology? Perhaps the final parts assembly line is staffed by foreign workers, the entire process is US made.
While your personal distinction might be personally meaningful, as a patriotic gesture its totally moot, if not hurting the cause. Better to have 1 Apple full of technology creators, than 1.5 billion foreign screw turners and envelope lickers. Especially when we have to tell them exactly how to make and lick each screw/envelope.
And you know this all how? SInce Apple had not manufactured anything in decades (before last year), it is hard to believe that they had much manufacturing expertise, while Foxconn makes a lot of stuff for a lot of people, and has for those same decades. If you want to be a chauvinist/racist/all around jerk, that's your right (but it does not make you right).
Must have. I don’t recall an article with the title
Apple Management Fails Remedial Elementary Addition, is doomed
2+2 equals $13.8 billion in profit and increasing product marketshare, which is all that Wall Street cares about every day of the year EXCEPT Apple’s quarterly earning calls.
That's not right. When Google wrote off the $1.7B in losses, they only gained the taxes that would have been paid on $1.7B. The write off is deducted from any profit before taxes. Google did not write off $1.7B from the taxes they had to pay. So Google did not gain $1.7B from the write off, more like about $450M. (based on a 25% tax rate)
That is, unless you meant that Google actually gained $1.7B from a tax write off of around $7B.
The Forbes article it came from treated it as $1.7 Bill off the original price, so I don't know if they had it wrong or if it was factored in correctly.... I think the 5,400,000 the orignal author came up with as a price also did not include the $2.9 billion motorolla had in cash at the time. Forbes had Google paying a total of around $1.7 bil for the Moto deal. That was calculated years ago before the sale to Lenovo so if that is true Google would have made money on the sale (not accounting for the losses Moto had from operations).
When you factor in Google kept all their advanced technology patents and divisions from the deal they really didn't do as poorly as the haters are really really wishing they did. And they kept the bit I'm most curious about, project Ara.