I said it on another thread. Cook needs to reiterate what Ive and Federighi have said before: new and different are easy, but better is hard. Or what Ive said in the 5S video: Apple isn't about technology for technologies sake; it's interested in doing things that truly enhance the user experience. Just keep hammering this point home over and over again. And throw the dogs a bone once. Apple gave us an early look at the Mac Pro. How about doing something similar with Apple TV? Or maybe some of their software programs? But really I think Apple should move away from announcing almost all new products in September and October. Spread out product announcements so there aren't these long lulls where others can fill the vacuum with FUD and D&G.
Dolce and Gabbana? .
Cook shouldnt waste his time appeasing analysts any more than he has to. There are four qtrly conf calls already. Cook shouldn't have to repeat himself. Apple also shouldn't announce products that aren't ready to ship. The Pro was an exception because the previous release was a long time ago.
Perhaps you're the one playing dumb. (Or perhaps you're not playing, for all I know).
My point was about what they're worth now, not what Google thought (or more precisely, said they thought) it was worth then.
Let's continue the conversation when you've figured out that difference.
Google bought them on 2012. Do you honestly think the value associated with those patents has changed much in the past two years? If anything, they are probably worth more now.
And if you know how company held patents work, we'll never publicly see a value associated those patents again. Unless Google sells them, which I highly doubt will happen anytime soon. The $5.5 billion is by far the best estimate we have.
Find me something that says otherwise or let it go.
Cook shouldnt waste his time appeasing analysts any more than he has to. There are four qtrly conf calls already. Cook shouldn't have to repeat himself. Apple also shouldn't announce products that aren't ready to ship. The Pro was an exception because the previous release was a long time ago.
It's not just appeasing analysts. It's changing the narrative around Apple. Keeping perception from becoming reality. If Apple had product launches spaced out more this wouldn't be such an issue as the products could speak for themselves. But Apple has chosen to release most products in a two month time frame and for the rest of the year pretty much go quiet. That leaves a vacuum for others to fill and it's being filled with plenty of FUD and D&G.
Apple has been on the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over IP. In fact over the past five years they're neck and neck with Google. Does that mean they both have a disdain for others intellectual property?
They only were able to get $10,000,000 from Microsoft.
Like I said its an accounting issue. They need to book the difference between the cash they paid to buy Motorolla and the value of the hard assets. The difference goes to bull Shit stuff like intangible assets (patents) and goodwill.
I'm an CPA with SEC experience. I know how all kind of BS goes into intangible assets /goodwill when companies are bought for more than book value (value of Hard assets)
So you are trying to say a patent's worth is only what it can win in a lawsuit? I don't know where you work, but that's not GAAP.
It's not just appeasing analysts. It's changing the narrative around Apple. Keeping perception from becoming reality. If Apple had product launches spaced out more this wouldn't be such an issue as the products could speak for themselves. But Apple has chosen to release most products in a two month time frame and for the rest of the year pretty much go quiet. That leaves a vacuum for others to fill and it's being filled with plenty of FUD and D&G.
There's always going to be a lull in news cycle. Every day Apple is not talking is a lull. So you don't think there were any rumors between the iPhone and iPad announcements last year? Apple releases products on its own schedule and for its own reasons. Quieting WS is not one of those reasons.
Google's sale of Motorola did not include the Motorola Patents valued at $6 billion. Those stayed with Google. Overall, Google's acquisition of Motorola was a small loss. I'm positive Google is very happy with their decision to buy them. Glad to see you don't know anything about this.
Let say 6 billion dollars worth of the patent (rock star co paid less than that for more useful patent) 12 billion dollar purchase price add 2 billion loses over the period google run it. That's 14 billion , sold it at 3 billion (the small change enough to start a war) that's 5 billion dollars lost. And how much did Google make last year?
Where Apple made yet another best quarterly profit , of course Apple is DOOMED for the 37th year ... We live in an interesting world.
I'm saying the patent is not worth what its ASSIGNED on paper.
Anytime you buy a company you receive HARD assets like cash, inventory, property, ect. The amount you paid in EXCESS is ASSIGNED to intangible assets like Patents. In no way, shape, or form does that mean those patents are actually worth that much. PERIOD. You are arguing they are. I'm saying they are not since they only generated $10,000,000 from them so far and many have no use now that they won't be making hardware.
Have you ever heard of a company buying Patents by itself for $5,000,000,000?
Especially when most are SEP's?
Nope. The amount you paid in excess of the acquisitions worth is assigned to goodwill, not made up categories. That would be illegal.
Have I every heard of a company buying patents for itself for $5 billion? Are you serious? That's exactly what Apple did through rockstar consortium.
There's always going to be a lull in news cycle. Every day Apple is not talking is a lull. So you don't think there were any rumors between the iPhone and iPad announcements last year? Apple releases products on its own schedule and for its own reasons. Quieting WS is not one of those reasons.
As I said, I'm not just talking about Wall Street. And going 6-9 months without any product releases is a pretty big lull. I have a hard time believing the only time Apple can release new products is Q4. The other thing I forgot to mention before is employee morale. Can't be fun for Apple designers and engineers to know they're working on really cool stuff but see other companies getting all the love and the public perception being that Apple is no longer innovative and all they do is provide incremental updates to existing products. But maybe that doesn't matter. But what do I know, maybe employee morale at Apple is as high as it's ever been and the mentality of employees is 'screw everyone, we'll show them!'.
They had $1.7 Billion in operating losses while Google owned Moto
Selling cost, Severance Cost, Sale of assets $1.0 Billion (investment banks charge 3-5% on sales, like a real estate broker)
12.5 - 2.6 - 2.9 + 1.7 + 1.0 = $9,700,000,000 loss on sale
But wait!
What about the tax deductions? Just as Motorola transferred the operating losses to Google, the same thing probably happened when Google sold to Lenovo. In other words Lenovo now has the tax deductions since they bought Motorolla.
But wait! What about the cash on Motorola's books. Just as the cash transferred to Google when they bought Motorola, they were transferred to Lenovo.
So we have no proof that Google retains the tax deductions or the cash since they were transferred on the sale to Lenovo. Just as they were transferred to Google in the first place. Do you really think Lenovo would pay $3,000,000,000 for a cell phone company that is losing BILLIONS a year? Really?
That $3 billion of cash was not transferred to Lenovo. Add that in with the $5 billion in Google's perception of Motorola's patent portfolio value and it's a $1 billion dollar loss to Google. It's a drop int he bucket for a Google and it's $400 billion market cap. And that $1 billion sale cost seems a little high but, I wouldn't know about that.
I said it on another thread. Cook needs to reiterate what Ive and Federighi have said before: new and different are easy, but better is hard. Or what Ive said in the 5S video: Apple isn't about technology for technologies sake; it's interested in doing things that truly enhance the user experience. Just keep hammering this point home over and over again.
Great points. The thing I wish most for Apple to do, even more than release new products, is improve their PR, and I think the best way for them to do this is to do a lot more advertising; Apple seems to do very little. Not because of wall street, and not necessarily because they need to in order to sell more products, and not silly commercials just to build brand familiarity, but because apple deserves to have a fair public perception. Apple's typical hands off approach is often interpreted as tacit acknowledgment of FUD, or just indifference; the "above it all" approach is not working IMO.
I love the ads Apple has been coming out with lately, but I think they should also focus on practical things, things that differentiate Apple and it's products that no one else can match, and emphasizing the effort behind them, that they are not just gimmicks. For example, custom A series chips, Touch ID, build quality, camera technology, etc. They could come up with any excuse to run a few ads. A few examples:
-Emphasizing Rogifan's points with concrete examples from their product line.
-The 30th anniversary of the Mac seems to be a huge missed opportunity, how about: 30 years ago Apple created the first computer with a graphical user interface, using a then revolutionary tool called the mouse, and controlling applications enclosed in *cough* windows. Today Apple is still the same, here is the new.. mac pro; iPhone; Mavericks (increases battery by %30(?) through the hard work of Apple's software engineers) ..and so on, with commercials pairing past advancements with current advancements.
-Valentines day is coming up, how about something along the lines of: Love is in the air, and here at Apple, we put a lot of love into our products.. emphasize build quality; point out how worker oversight is actually best in business; show smiling faces of workers (American and Asian plant workers, retail staff, core Apple employees); or just pretty close up pictures of the products.
Apple is a great company, and you don't need to be a cult member or fanatic to see that. All Apple needs to do is tell us about itself, its products, and its values. They don't have to be in your face, just matter-of-fact reminders every once in a while about what Apple is all about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
No more guidance
No more unit sales
No more insights about def revenue, currency flux, ect.
Keep it simple.
Don't give Wall Street ammo.
Total Revenue
Total Profit
Thats all anyone needs to know if a company is making money or not.
The rest should be glowing optimisum. Watch what those clowns at Amazon, Google, and Facebook say during their conference calls. Its all about selling. There was no reason for Cook to say they failed to realize the demand for the 5C was going to be weak. No reason. He should have just said the demand for the 5S was amazing. We hear enough FUD from the media and hedge fund clowns. There was no reason to explain channel inventory. No reason to mention that carier policies in the US is hurting renewal frequency. Thats just causing fear.
You can't be honest and tell the whole story to Wall Street. They will twist the truth and tell lies to manipulate stock price. They need to be as secretive about the financial data as they are with product secrets. Steve Jobs did it right. He gave guidance but it was so ridiculously low that everyone knew not to take it seriously.
Good Earnings, Bad Guidance = Stock goes down
Good Earnings, Bad Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down
Bad Earnings, Good Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down
The only way the stock goes up is if earning is good, units are good, and guidance is good. Mess up on any of those and the stock tanks.
While I like your sentiment, I also like Apple's general position about being transparent in everything they do (NSA/supplier issues/environment), and being open about the financials I think is part of that. What I would like to see is Apple being more proactive about countering the FUD, standing up to the bullies (wall street/NYT/bloomberg) (it's the only thing they respect); maybe Peter and Tim can send some snarky tweets once in a while or something. Maybe something like: "I hope the NYT is having better luck with their sources these days #mikedaisey"
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Just got a email from a friend on the west coast who's deep into the tech sector. He told me that Apple's next new product line won't be an add on to the iPhone. He explained it won't be like the Galaxy Gear that works with the iPhone. He said the new product will actually REPLACE the iPhone. Wow. Hope this is true. He's been pretty on top of it in the past.
That sounds pretty interesting. I can't imagine a different form factor though. I'm always going to want a screen around, and the iPhone is (roughly) the perfect size. However, Apple is heavily involved in designing hearing implants, and could very well design a very discreet earpiece that would allow an iWatch to function independently as a phone without the actual iPhone present, and without making everyone look like Dicks (Dick Traceys) or glassholes.
Can't be fun for Apple designers and engineers to know they're working on really cool stuff but see other companies getting all the love and the public perception being that Apple is no longer innovative and all they do is provide incremental updates to existing products. But maybe that doesn't matter. But what do I know, maybe employee morale at Apple is as high as it's ever been and the mentality of employees is 'screw everyone, we'll show them!'.
Also can't be fun for any Apple employees with stock options or money in an ESOP plan (if they have one) to see their value plummet. If for no other reason than that the company should be more agressive in protecting the share price. Don't want valuable people jumping ship to go work for Google.
As I said, I'm not just talking about Wall Street. And going 6-9 months without any product releases is a pretty big lull. I have a hard time believing the only time Apple can release new products is Q4. The other thing I forgot to mention before is employee morale. Can't be fun for Apple designers and engineers to know they're working on really cool stuff but see other companies getting all the love and the public perception being that Apple is no longer innovative and all they do is provide incremental updates to existing products. But maybe that doesn't matter. But what do I know, maybe employee morale at Apple is as high as it's ever been and the mentality of employees is 'screw everyone, we'll show them!'.
I don't think Apple employees care about other companies. They know they are working on amazing stuff. They know they've changed the world before and will do it again. They know the Apple stores are crowded and Apple has never been more popular.
I don't think Apple employees care about other companies. They know they are working on amazing stuff. They know they've changed the world before and will do it again. They know the Apple stores are crowded and Apple has never been more popular.
They only were able to get $10,000,000 from Microsoft.
Like I said its an accounting issue. They need to book the difference between the cash they paid to buy Motorolla and the value of the hard assets. The difference goes to bull Shit stuff like intangible assets (patents) and goodwill.
I'm an CPA with SEC experience. I know how all kind of BS goes into intangible assets /goodwill when companies are bought for more than book value (value of Hard assets)
So you are trying to say a patent's worth is only what it can win in a lawsuit? I don't know where you work, but that's not GAAP.
Comments
Dolce and Gabbana?
Cook shouldnt waste his time appeasing analysts any more than he has to. There are four qtrly conf calls already. Cook shouldn't have to repeat himself. Apple also shouldn't announce products that aren't ready to ship. The Pro was an exception because the previous release was a long time ago.
Perhaps you're the one playing dumb. (Or perhaps you're not playing, for all I know).
My point was about what they're worth now, not what Google thought (or more precisely, said they thought) it was worth then.
Let's continue the conversation when you've figured out that difference.
Google bought them on 2012. Do you honestly think the value associated with those patents has changed much in the past two years? If anything, they are probably worth more now.
And if you know how company held patents work, we'll never publicly see a value associated those patents again. Unless Google sells them, which I highly doubt will happen anytime soon. The $5.5 billion is by far the best estimate we have.
Find me something that says otherwise or let it go.
More importantly, what's your point?
And what is the use of those patents now that they won't even be making phones anymore?
Nail, meet head.
Apple has been on the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over IP. In fact over the past five years they're neck and neck with Google. Does that mean they both have a disdain for others intellectual property?
Non-sequitur.
Nail, meet head.
Not at all.
Why do you think Google just purchased the nest hardware team? This may now be the first time Google actually does make a phone.
Motorola was separate and made it's own phones, never Google.
Worth more now!!! What a clown.
They only were able to get $10,000,000 from Microsoft.
Like I said its an accounting issue. They need to book the difference between the cash they paid to buy Motorolla and the value of the hard assets. The difference goes to bull Shit stuff like intangible assets (patents) and goodwill.
I'm an CPA with SEC experience. I know how all kind of BS goes into intangible assets /goodwill when companies are bought for more than book value (value of Hard assets)
So you are trying to say a patent's worth is only what it can win in a lawsuit? I don't know where you work, but that's not GAAP.
Implantables. Leapfrog wearables.
There's always going to be a lull in news cycle. Every day Apple is not talking is a lull. So you don't think there were any rumors between the iPhone and iPad announcements last year? Apple releases products on its own schedule and for its own reasons. Quieting WS is not one of those reasons.
Let say 6 billion dollars worth of the patent (rock star co paid less than that for more useful patent) 12 billion dollar purchase price add 2 billion loses over the period google run it. That's 14 billion , sold it at 3 billion (the small change enough to start a war) that's 5 billion dollars lost. And how much did Google make last year?
Where Apple made yet another best quarterly profit , of course Apple is DOOMED for the 37th year ... We live in an interesting world.
1. mention Google
2. serve with Google ads
3. profit!
I'm saying the patent is not worth what its ASSIGNED on paper.
Anytime you buy a company you receive HARD assets like cash, inventory, property, ect. The amount you paid in EXCESS is ASSIGNED to intangible assets like Patents. In no way, shape, or form does that mean those patents are actually worth that much. PERIOD. You are arguing they are. I'm saying they are not since they only generated $10,000,000 from them so far and many have no use now that they won't be making hardware.
Have you ever heard of a company buying Patents by itself for $5,000,000,000?
Especially when most are SEP's?
Nope. The amount you paid in excess of the acquisitions worth is assigned to goodwill, not made up categories. That would be illegal.
Have I every heard of a company buying patents for itself for $5 billion? Are you serious? That's exactly what Apple did through rockstar consortium.
Implantables, you say? (Caution, foul language.)
Google bought Motorola for $12.5 Billion
Sold Set box division for $2.6 Billion
Sold Phone division for $2.9 Billion
They had $1.7 Billion in operating losses while Google owned Moto
Selling cost, Severance Cost, Sale of assets $1.0 Billion (investment banks charge 3-5% on sales, like a real estate broker)
12.5 - 2.6 - 2.9 + 1.7 + 1.0 = $9,700,000,000 loss on sale
But wait!
What about the tax deductions? Just as Motorola transferred the operating losses to Google, the same thing probably happened when Google sold to Lenovo. In other words Lenovo now has the tax deductions since they bought Motorolla.
But wait! What about the cash on Motorola's books. Just as the cash transferred to Google when they bought Motorola, they were transferred to Lenovo.
So we have no proof that Google retains the tax deductions or the cash since they were transferred on the sale to Lenovo. Just as they were transferred to Google in the first place. Do you really think Lenovo would pay $3,000,000,000 for a cell phone company that is losing BILLIONS a year? Really?
That $3 billion of cash was not transferred to Lenovo. Add that in with the $5 billion in Google's perception of Motorola's patent portfolio value and it's a $1 billion dollar loss to Google. It's a drop int he bucket for a Google and it's $400 billion market cap. And that $1 billion sale cost seems a little high but, I wouldn't know about that.
I said it on another thread. Cook needs to reiterate what Ive and Federighi have said before: new and different are easy, but better is hard. Or what Ive said in the 5S video: Apple isn't about technology for technologies sake; it's interested in doing things that truly enhance the user experience. Just keep hammering this point home over and over again.
Great points. The thing I wish most for Apple to do, even more than release new products, is improve their PR, and I think the best way for them to do this is to do a lot more advertising; Apple seems to do very little. Not because of wall street, and not necessarily because they need to in order to sell more products, and not silly commercials just to build brand familiarity, but because apple deserves to have a fair public perception. Apple's typical hands off approach is often interpreted as tacit acknowledgment of FUD, or just indifference; the "above it all" approach is not working IMO.
I love the ads Apple has been coming out with lately, but I think they should also focus on practical things, things that differentiate Apple and it's products that no one else can match, and emphasizing the effort behind them, that they are not just gimmicks. For example, custom A series chips, Touch ID, build quality, camera technology, etc. They could come up with any excuse to run a few ads. A few examples:
-Emphasizing Rogifan's points with concrete examples from their product line.
-The 30th anniversary of the Mac seems to be a huge missed opportunity, how about: 30 years ago Apple created the first computer with a graphical user interface, using a then revolutionary tool called the mouse, and controlling applications enclosed in *cough* windows. Today Apple is still the same, here is the new.. mac pro; iPhone; Mavericks (increases battery by %30(?) through the hard work of Apple's software engineers) ..and so on, with commercials pairing past advancements with current advancements.
-Valentines day is coming up, how about something along the lines of: Love is in the air, and here at Apple, we put a lot of love into our products.. emphasize build quality; point out how worker oversight is actually best in business; show smiling faces of workers (American and Asian plant workers, retail staff, core Apple employees); or just pretty close up pictures of the products.
Apple is a great company, and you don't need to be a cult member or fanatic to see that. All Apple needs to do is tell us about itself, its products, and its values. They don't have to be in your face, just matter-of-fact reminders every once in a while about what Apple is all about.
No more guidance
No more unit sales
No more insights about def revenue, currency flux, ect.
Keep it simple.
Don't give Wall Street ammo.
Total Revenue
Total Profit
Thats all anyone needs to know if a company is making money or not.
The rest should be glowing optimisum. Watch what those clowns at Amazon, Google, and Facebook say during their conference calls. Its all about selling. There was no reason for Cook to say they failed to realize the demand for the 5C was going to be weak. No reason. He should have just said the demand for the 5S was amazing. We hear enough FUD from the media and hedge fund clowns. There was no reason to explain channel inventory. No reason to mention that carier policies in the US is hurting renewal frequency. Thats just causing fear.
You can't be honest and tell the whole story to Wall Street. They will twist the truth and tell lies to manipulate stock price. They need to be as secretive about the financial data as they are with product secrets. Steve Jobs did it right. He gave guidance but it was so ridiculously low that everyone knew not to take it seriously.
Good Earnings, Bad Guidance = Stock goes down
Good Earnings, Bad Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down
Bad Earnings, Good Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down
The only way the stock goes up is if earning is good, units are good, and guidance is good. Mess up on any of those and the stock tanks.
While I like your sentiment, I also like Apple's general position about being transparent in everything they do (NSA/supplier issues/environment), and being open about the financials I think is part of that. What I would like to see is Apple being more proactive about countering the FUD, standing up to the bullies (wall street/NYT/bloomberg) (it's the only thing they respect); maybe Peter and Tim can send some snarky tweets once in a while or something. Maybe something like: "I hope the NYT is having better luck with their sources these days #mikedaisey"
Just got a email from a friend on the west coast who's deep into the tech sector. He told me that Apple's next new product line won't be an add on to the iPhone. He explained it won't be like the Galaxy Gear that works with the iPhone. He said the new product will actually REPLACE the iPhone. Wow. Hope this is true. He's been pretty on top of it in the past.
That sounds pretty interesting. I can't imagine a different form factor though. I'm always going to want a screen around, and the iPhone is (roughly) the perfect size. However, Apple is heavily involved in designing hearing implants, and could very well design a very discreet earpiece that would allow an iWatch to function independently as a phone without the actual iPhone present, and without making everyone look like Dicks (Dick Traceys) or glassholes.
edit: typos
Also can't be fun for any Apple employees with stock options or money in an ESOP plan (if they have one) to see their value plummet. If for no other reason than that the company should be more agressive in protecting the share price. Don't want valuable people jumping ship to go work for Google.
I don't think Apple employees care about other companies. They know they are working on amazing stuff. They know they've changed the world before and will do it again. They know the Apple stores are crowded and Apple has never been more popular.
Now you're being obtuse.
That's not what he's saying.