The money laundering comment doesn't make sense because rules from FinCEN already limit that kind of activity with their "know your customer" requirements. Unless one buys Bitcoin using cash in-person from a seller, there is no real anonymity. There are crypto currencies that are being created to have complete anonymity, but Bitcoin and the other most popular cryptos are not that.
They got caught obviously so money laundering likely isn't the biggest issue but the transfer of bitcoins from person to person is pretty anonymous. People could easily be buying illegal drugs from their iPhone. There's no other payment method that would allow this so easily.
Finally, lest you sneer further at Bitcoiners...I know someone personally who got in early and will soon pay off his house with the proceeds from the sale of his Bitcoin. Not bad for his (approximately) $1,000 investment.
The returns are amazing for the people selling their coins for safe government-backed fiat currency. It's the people buying them (the new bitcoiners) that have to worry. Very volatile to go up 100x in 1 year:
It's one thing to have a law on the books. It's another to enforce said law. I HIGHLY doubt an FBI SWAT team will be kicking your door in because you jailbroke your phone and downloaded an app of cydia. On the warranty front, you're screwed but that's a different issue altogether. You can get sued, but if you don't have much to begin with, that's a moot point.
Interesting story, involving someone not necessarily interested in dealing in hiding his own profits but clearly moved into that dubious area where others would have kept the door shut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
They got caught obviously so money laundering likely isn't the biggest issue but the transfer of bitcoins from person to person is pretty anonymous. People could easily be buying illegal drugs from their iPhone. There's no other payment method that would allow this so easily.
Even if it's not as completely anonymous as systems set up for encrypted, anonymous transactions, perception counts for plenty. It's so well known for doing what it does that many probably assume it's the safest way to launder, that they can make it as anonymous as needed, even if that's not entirely so. Besides, if it takes cash in person to achieve it, that's in no way an inconvenience to someone in that position, so that's not a dissuading factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
The returns are amazing for the people selling their coins for safe government-backed fiat currency. It's the people buying them (the new bitcoiners) that have to worry. Very volatile to go up 100x in 1 year:
There's a good line in one of the comments after the story that says a lot about why it's not due for a long life:
"That sort of highlights the problem with bits. Its being seen as a get-rich-quick investment rather than a “money”"
Those who actually do want digital currency, especially now that the price is so high and can lower but more importantly crash at any time now that it may be too high for its health, will look elsewhere, and leave Bitcoins to the speculators.
I have mined a few Bitcoins, just for the technical challenge of it, but never spent any. I honestly don't think there's much of a future in it. Digital currencies and payment systems are clearly the future, but the winning crypto coin will be one backed by gold or by a government, none of the current ones. I think Apple is right to keep out of it until it settles down a bit, and the picture is a bit clearer.
Why does a crypto currency need to be a commodity-based currency, backed by physical goods?
How could a crypto currency be "backed" by a government? What would that mean?
I have mined a few Bitcoins, just for the technical challenge of it, but never spent any. I honestly don't think there's much of a future in it. Digital currencies and payment systems are clearly the future, but the winning crypto coin will be one backed by gold or by a government, none of the current ones. I think Apple is right to keep out of it until it settles down a bit, and the picture is a bit clearer.
Right on, current Bitcoins are a suck you in scam.
Hopefully the follow on is a real currency backed Netcoin, which is definitely needed.
Come on Gov banks, get up to date with the real need for Netcoins.
How could a crypto currency be "backed" by a government? What would that mean?
They can't be backed by a government because the supply is solely controlled by a computer algorithm. A computer advance or flaw in the algorithm could flood the market with new coins and devalue the others. The supply of fiat currency is controlled by the central banks - the base amount is called M0:
The fact crypto-currency supply isn't controlled by people is seen as a good and bad thing. The people who see governments as inherently corrupt see these types of currency as a way to remove their control. That control, however, usually offers some stability.
The biggest instability bitcoin has is that people need to believe it's going to work. It's like the old saying "whether you think you can or you can't, you're right". The more people trust bitcoins and trade with them, the more stable they'll be. The less they trust them, the more volatile they'll be. This doesn't happen with a currency that is legal tender because no matter if people don't trust it, everyone uses it to pay taxes so that constant high volume of transactions keeps it more steady.
The relative currency value in different countries fluctuates and this is how forex traders make their money but the changes are so small that they leverage their bets by as much as 100:1. A fractional percentage shift against them can wipe out their bet but one that works for them can bring significant returns. That's the other thing about digital currency, it has no borders. 1BTC in America = 1BTC in China but how do they determine its value relative to groceries unless they hold it to a local currency? Bitcoins will have to be traded in retail outlets meaning every retail outlet has to have internet connectivity and there's the verification time for transactions:
Whatever happened to "Think Different"? I think Apple abandoned that a long time ago regarding the iPhone, iPod, and iPads by not allowing people to download and run whatever they want on the devices for which they paid. If you can't do what you want to do with the device you bought, then you really don't own it. Do you?
“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
Bitcoins are a scam and have DEEP connections with money laudering, tax fraud, drug cartels, and murders.
Why the F would Apple want anything to do with that?
No one is regulating Bitcoins. The creator of Bitcoins is not even known. He could easily create himself billions of Bitcoins and no one would be the wiser. That would instantly tank the market and make Bitcoins worthless.
Obviously to a Bitcoin user you don't understand how they work.
Bitcoin should remain free and outside of governmental interference. The Federal Reserve must really hate it because it takes away their control.
Bitcoins are every bit as real as electronic dollars. When you get your pay check is it real money? No. It is a slip of paper with numbers on it that must be given to a bank. If you have direct deposit from your employer is that real money? They just tell their bank to send some electronic signal to your bank. Do you shop with paper and metal money or do you use a debit or credit card? Are you getting the picture? If you have electronic Bitcoins and someone else is willing to take some of them for a purchase, then your Bitcoins are just as good as your debit card, credit card, or check.
Stop giving power to the financial industry. Stop giving power to the banking industry. Stop giving power to the Federal Reserve private banking system. They destroyed our country and continue to only work for the wealthy. Switch to Bitcoins. The more of us that do it the weaker our oppressors will be.
“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Apple has become a hypocritical company. They promote this ideal but don't actually follow this ideal.
Bitcoin is a grey area right now. It may be legal in the US or it may not. Why would Apple want to be associated with such a shady market? Some of the biggest Bitcoin supports have been found guilty of tax fraud, drug distribution, human trafficing, murder, ect. Until the DOJ fully confirms Bitcoins legal status Apple won't risk its $500B company on it.
It's currently legal in the U.S. but across the board illegal in Russia and China and all over the map everywhere else. The tax aspect is very interesting. Some countries have stated they recognize it as legit and will tax Bitcoin transactions, and some are going so far as to not recognize it as currency but will tax it anyway. If that means the same as stocks, with "capital gains" for profits from transactions and mining considered "earned income" (or something like that) that's a big bite that big users will bristle at. One thing's for certain: it will only take a few high profile cases with criminal elements to bring the hammer down hard, even if it's just for tax evasion and not drug money laundering, for better or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
Bitcoins are every bit as real as electronic dollars. When you get your pay check is it real money? No. It is a slip of paper with numbers on it that must be given to a bank. If you have direct deposit from your employer is that real money? They just tell their bank to send some electronic signal to your bank. Do you shop with paper and metal money or do you use a debit or credit card? Are you getting the picture? If you have electronic Bitcoins and someone else is willing to take some of them for a purchase, then your Bitcoins are just as good as your debit card, credit card, or check.
Well, just because they're as real as the rest doesn't mean they're similar in all ways that matter. They are highly speculative, and currency, though the value can rise and fall, is not. As long as speculation continues to be such a huge part of it it has less chance of fulfilling the role of an "everyman" 's currency. The two are mutually exclusive in the long run, I would think.
This is OUTRIGHT false. It is not illegal in China. Banks are not allowed to process cash deposits for Bitcoin.
In Russia the situation is grey, the central bank of Russia has said it is illegal, but the courts have said no such thing.
Most countries are treating it like a foreign currency.
You are correct about China. There have been news reports as recently as yesterday, including Reuters, saying it is, hence my writing. I apologize for passing along the inaccuracy. See their language here:
As far as Russia, the article quotes the Prosecutor General:
"Russia’s official currency is the ruble. The introduction of other types of currencies and the issue of money surrogates are banned,” the statement says, meaning that cryptocurrencies - the most popular of which is bitcoin - cannot be used by Russian citizens or corporations.
Members of the meeting also outlined recommendations on how to prevent the use of virtual currencies."
Which means that they haven't figured out yet how to apply their laws to it, but it's banned, using it is not permitted. They're taking a pretty cut and dry stance pending a court ruling. I understand the technicality of it not quite being spelled out by the courts yet, but that's not the Bank saying it's illegal, it's the Prosecutor General basically laying it out without using the "I" word.
In China it's half banned. Being banned among financial institutions (and by the country's largest e-commerce business) puts it in a precarious place, but I understand that as long as it's not illegal in all areas it's not illegal. Russia, IMO, is a different thing.
Here are videos made in the past 24 hours of people destroying their iPhones in response
Some of them were almost in tears when they smashed their phone and realised they'd be stuck with a crappy Android phone. Quite violent people too.
It would be funny if Apple decided to allow the apps back in tomorrow and they'd just trashed their $600 phones. Just for a few days though and then ban them again.
They revised it with one of the changes to the terms and conditions. You didn't agree to it I hope.
While I would fall more on the side of complete freedom to do anything, Apple is free to limit their products as they see fit and it creates a more secure platform. You can't put a bitcoin wallet on an XBox either, nobody is smashing them up. What you are free to do is put an encrypted wallet on a server or home computer and you can access it from your phone.
If someone decides to publish an app that maps houses suitable for burgling, should Apple just look the other way because these people are rebels and misfits? No, they are up to no good. People under 18 can pay for porn, drugs and alcohol with bitcoins. One reason credit cards exist is to verify you are over 18.
They haven't even said officially what the reason is. Their response was that there were 'unresolved issues' with the apps. That excuse is carte blanche to do whatever they feel like but it's their store.
I don't know why there can't be a webapp to do this. You can have offline database storage so surely they can store hashes or whatever else they need in an encrypted form in a webapp and have any transaction code run in Javascript.
They quoted Apple:
“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
They inappropriately quoted Apple. They aren't changing things nor are they pushing the human race forward. What they created is less than a company stock. Crypto-currency is like stock in a company without the assurance of confident earnings reports, like Amazon stock basically.
They are trading stocks in the 'company' Bitcoin but the company doesn't do anything, it doesn't make anything of tangible value to back the shares. As the confidence of investors grows, the value of each share goes up and they can split the stocks to 8 decimal places, which allows it to distribute 2.3 quadrillion shares but is only meaningful if the investors keep bumping the price up and up.
We've all seen what happens to stocks. The people in it to sell pump the stock, everything's great, buy, buy, buy. When the value is up and they can all retire, they start the sell-off for tangible assets - the paid off house(s), the big insured bank accounts, the treasury bonds, gold, silver etc.
People point to stock valuations and say that's how much the company is worth but it means that's what people trading the stock think it's worth. Their assurance of that worth is based on the company selling products or services that other people think have worth and part with their fiat currency. It's really just a big circle jerk. With Apple stock, their core value is in their products (tangible value). Bitcoin is just strings of code that have no intrinsic worth.
That doesn't make it equivalent to paper money because paper money is backed by a country's workforce and gross domestic product. If everyone chooses to be paid in bitcoins and everyone pays for everything in bitcoins in every country that can change but that's never going to happen because it's stupid to base the volatility of the trading currency of everyone alive on an algorithm completely out of the control of the people reliant on it. It's ultimately in the control of the people who make the bitcoin protocol so people just move their reliance on an elected government who are held to laws to some random unelected people held to no standards.
Stop giving power to the financial industry. Stop giving power to the banking industry. Stop giving power to the Federal Reserve private banking system. They destroyed our country and continue to only work for the wealthy. Switch to Bitcoins. The more of us that do it the weaker our oppressors will be.
That system won't go away with this. Legal tender is all a government will accept for taxes. This is all a government will use to pay staff (which is a huge workforce) and it's all they will use to pay for mortgages and all the services they will use. Every home buyer in the world who has to take out a mortgage will take it from a lender that deals in fiat currency.
I don't agree with the system in place now, it has been abused but crypto-currency isn't the solution to it. Part of what makes fiat currency safe is that it is protected by the justice department and the military/police. Guess who pays them. If someone steals my money from the bank, I have support. If someone hacks my bitcoin wallet, how would I even prove it belonged to me?
It's currently legal in the U.S. but across the board illegal in Russia and China and all over the map everywhere else.
Its status is the same as if I generated an image or game on my computer and sold it to you. It's just a bunch of computer data that I convince you to exchange for money. It's not legal tender but it's as valid an asset as computer software.
To many peons here dancing to the sway of their masters, last i checked americans had a right to privacy. Yet we have to explain every detail of where our money goes, the NSA spying on every breath we take and still all i hear people talking about; "well they are laundering money". Why are drugs even illegal? Why does the a bank laundering billions of dollars of Mexican cartel's money not being convicted?Operation fast and furious? Why are bankers committing suicide on mass and no one questioned? Why is no one paying for NSA invading our privacy? People are too scared, to many middle class people (indentured slaves) that are fine with living life as a sheep. The reason Bitcoin will fail, will not be because of banks, or governments, but because people are too scared to stand up to tyrants. Americans should be ashamed of themselves for standing against innovation, this technology can also do a lot of good. Just look at what Dogecoin has done this past few weeks.
They quoted Apple: “Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
They've only had 120,000 downloads? Wow. Truly a small, chaotic, yet growing technology...in other words, perfect for Apple's innovation and UI improvements. All of the Bitcoin blockchain software I've seen so far is really terrible. I want Apple to own this space.
Comments
There's a recent case involving cash:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/4/5374172/the-coin-prince-charlie-shrem-bitinstant-bitcoin-money-laundering-scandal
They got caught obviously so money laundering likely isn't the biggest issue but the transfer of bitcoins from person to person is pretty anonymous. People could easily be buying illegal drugs from their iPhone. There's no other payment method that would allow this so easily.
The returns are amazing for the people selling their coins for safe government-backed fiat currency. It's the people buying them (the new bitcoiners) that have to worry. Very volatile to go up 100x in 1 year:
https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all
Show me the savvy investors who are buying bitcoins right now.
It's one thing to have a law on the books. It's another to enforce said law. I HIGHLY doubt an FBI SWAT team will be kicking your door in because you jailbroke your phone and downloaded an app of cydia. On the warranty front, you're screwed but that's a different issue altogether. You can get sued, but if you don't have much to begin with, that's a moot point.
There's a recent case involving cash:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/4/5374172/the-coin-prince-charlie-shrem-bitinstant-bitcoin-money-laundering-scandal
Interesting story, involving someone not necessarily interested in dealing in hiding his own profits but clearly moved into that dubious area where others would have kept the door shut.
They got caught obviously so money laundering likely isn't the biggest issue but the transfer of bitcoins from person to person is pretty anonymous. People could easily be buying illegal drugs from their iPhone. There's no other payment method that would allow this so easily.
Even if it's not as completely anonymous as systems set up for encrypted, anonymous transactions, perception counts for plenty. It's so well known for doing what it does that many probably assume it's the safest way to launder, that they can make it as anonymous as needed, even if that's not entirely so. Besides, if it takes cash in person to achieve it, that's in no way an inconvenience to someone in that position, so that's not a dissuading factor.
The returns are amazing for the people selling their coins for safe government-backed fiat currency. It's the people buying them (the new bitcoiners) that have to worry. Very volatile to go up 100x in 1 year:
There's a good line in one of the comments after the story that says a lot about why it's not due for a long life:
"That sort of highlights the problem with bits. Its being seen as a get-rich-quick investment rather than a “money”"
Those who actually do want digital currency, especially now that the price is so high and can lower but more importantly crash at any time now that it may be too high for its health, will look elsewhere, and leave Bitcoins to the speculators.
I have mined a few Bitcoins, just for the technical challenge of it, but never spent any. I honestly don't think there's much of a future in it. Digital currencies and payment systems are clearly the future, but the winning crypto coin will be one backed by gold or by a government, none of the current ones. I think Apple is right to keep out of it until it settles down a bit, and the picture is a bit clearer.
Why does a crypto currency need to be a commodity-based currency, backed by physical goods?
How could a crypto currency be "backed" by a government? What would that mean?
I have mined a few Bitcoins, just for the technical challenge of it, but never spent any. I honestly don't think there's much of a future in it. Digital currencies and payment systems are clearly the future, but the winning crypto coin will be one backed by gold or by a government, none of the current ones. I think Apple is right to keep out of it until it settles down a bit, and the picture is a bit clearer.
Right on, current Bitcoins are a suck you in scam.
Hopefully the follow on is a real currency backed Netcoin, which is definitely needed.
Come on Gov banks, get up to date with the real need for Netcoins.
Everyone needs at least one laugh a day. This was almost mine. Thanks.
They can't be backed by a government because the supply is solely controlled by a computer algorithm. A computer advance or flaw in the algorithm could flood the market with new coins and devalue the others. The supply of fiat currency is controlled by the central banks - the base amount is called M0:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm
The fact crypto-currency supply isn't controlled by people is seen as a good and bad thing. The people who see governments as inherently corrupt see these types of currency as a way to remove their control. That control, however, usually offers some stability.
The biggest instability bitcoin has is that people need to believe it's going to work. It's like the old saying "whether you think you can or you can't, you're right". The more people trust bitcoins and trade with them, the more stable they'll be. The less they trust them, the more volatile they'll be. This doesn't happen with a currency that is legal tender because no matter if people don't trust it, everyone uses it to pay taxes so that constant high volume of transactions keeps it more steady.
The relative currency value in different countries fluctuates and this is how forex traders make their money but the changes are so small that they leverage their bets by as much as 100:1. A fractional percentage shift against them can wipe out their bet but one that works for them can bring significant returns. That's the other thing about digital currency, it has no borders. 1BTC in America = 1BTC in China but how do they determine its value relative to groceries unless they hold it to a local currency? Bitcoins will have to be traded in retail outlets meaning every retail outlet has to have internet connectivity and there's the verification time for transactions:
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3562/will-transaction-confirmation-time-be-reduced-as-the-network-size-increases
Here are videos made in the past 24 hours of people destroying their iPhones in response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQZTAJ2KLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7z2WFcEw5Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfodAaOrpvs&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OBfvXIHvDc&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Tmg2eV9fg&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi51FGkSu5E&
There are probably more.
Whatever happened to "Think Different"? I think Apple abandoned that a long time ago regarding the iPhone, iPod, and iPads by not allowing people to download and run whatever they want on the devices for which they paid. If you can't do what you want to do with the device you bought, then you really don't own it. Do you?
Apples new catch phrase is "Think Suppression".
Oh noes, angry bitcoiners. There's only 79 comments. I wonder if these people belong to the top 100:
The top 100 bitcoiners own over 20% of all the bitcoins. Bitcoin inequality!
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100
There are a hell of a lot more then 79 comments on Reddit. One thread now deleted had over 1000 (that in itself is a story).
The response from Blockchain.info was MUCH BETTER then what was quoted here:
http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/06/blockchain-response-to-apple/
They quoted Apple:
“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
Bitcoins are a scam and have DEEP connections with money laudering, tax fraud, drug cartels, and murders.
Why the F would Apple want anything to do with that?
No one is regulating Bitcoins. The creator of Bitcoins is not even known. He could easily create himself billions of Bitcoins and no one would be the wiser. That would instantly tank the market and make Bitcoins worthless.
Obviously to a Bitcoin user you don't understand how they work.
Bitcoin should remain free and outside of governmental interference. The Federal Reserve must really hate it because it takes away their control.
Bitcoins are every bit as real as electronic dollars. When you get your pay check is it real money? No. It is a slip of paper with numbers on it that must be given to a bank. If you have direct deposit from your employer is that real money? They just tell their bank to send some electronic signal to your bank. Do you shop with paper and metal money or do you use a debit or credit card? Are you getting the picture? If you have electronic Bitcoins and someone else is willing to take some of them for a purchase, then your Bitcoins are just as good as your debit card, credit card, or check.
Stop giving power to the financial industry. Stop giving power to the banking industry. Stop giving power to the Federal Reserve private banking system. They destroyed our country and continue to only work for the wealthy. Switch to Bitcoins. The more of us that do it the weaker our oppressors will be.
They quoted Apple:
“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward.” – Apple, Inc.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Apple has become a hypocritical company. They promote this ideal but don't actually follow this ideal.
Bitcoin is a grey area right now. It may be legal in the US or it may not. Why would Apple want to be associated with such a shady market? Some of the biggest Bitcoin supports have been found guilty of tax fraud, drug distribution, human trafficing, murder, ect. Until the DOJ fully confirms Bitcoins legal status Apple won't risk its $500B company on it.
It's currently legal in the U.S. but across the board illegal in Russia and China and all over the map everywhere else. The tax aspect is very interesting. Some countries have stated they recognize it as legit and will tax Bitcoin transactions, and some are going so far as to not recognize it as currency but will tax it anyway. If that means the same as stocks, with "capital gains" for profits from transactions and mining considered "earned income" (or something like that) that's a big bite that big users will bristle at. One thing's for certain: it will only take a few high profile cases with criminal elements to bring the hammer down hard, even if it's just for tax evasion and not drug money laundering, for better or worse.
Bitcoins are every bit as real as electronic dollars. When you get your pay check is it real money? No. It is a slip of paper with numbers on it that must be given to a bank. If you have direct deposit from your employer is that real money? They just tell their bank to send some electronic signal to your bank. Do you shop with paper and metal money or do you use a debit or credit card? Are you getting the picture? If you have electronic Bitcoins and someone else is willing to take some of them for a purchase, then your Bitcoins are just as good as your debit card, credit card, or check.
Well, just because they're as real as the rest doesn't mean they're similar in all ways that matter. They are highly speculative, and currency, though the value can rise and fall, is not. As long as speculation continues to be such a huge part of it it has less chance of fulfilling the role of an "everyman" 's currency. The two are mutually exclusive in the long run, I would think.
It's currently legal in the U.S. but across the board illegal in Russia and China and all over the map everywhere else.
This is OUTRIGHT false. It is not illegal in China. Banks are not allowed to process cash deposits for Bitcoin.
In Russia the situation is grey, the central bank of Russia has said it is illegal, but the courts have said no such thing.
Most countries are treating it like a foreign currency.
This is OUTRIGHT false. It is not illegal in China. Banks are not allowed to process cash deposits for Bitcoin.
In Russia the situation is grey, the central bank of Russia has said it is illegal, but the courts have said no such thing.
Most countries are treating it like a foreign currency.
You are correct about China. There have been news reports as recently as yesterday, including Reuters, saying it is, hence my writing. I apologize for passing along the inaccuracy. See their language here:
http://rbth.ru/business/2014/02/05/russia_becomes_the_second_country_to_ban_bitcoin_33871.html
http://rt.com/business/bitcoin-russia-use-ban-942/
As far as Russia, the article quotes the Prosecutor General:
"Russia’s official currency is the ruble. The introduction of other types of currencies and the issue of money surrogates are banned,” the statement says, meaning that cryptocurrencies - the most popular of which is bitcoin - cannot be used by Russian citizens or corporations.
Members of the meeting also outlined recommendations on how to prevent the use of virtual currencies."
Which means that they haven't figured out yet how to apply their laws to it, but it's banned, using it is not permitted. They're taking a pretty cut and dry stance pending a court ruling. I understand the technicality of it not quite being spelled out by the courts yet, but that's not the Bank saying it's illegal, it's the Prosecutor General basically laying it out without using the "I" word.
In China it's half banned. Being banned among financial institutions (and by the country's largest e-commerce business) puts it in a precarious place, but I understand that as long as it's not illegal in all areas it's not illegal. Russia, IMO, is a different thing.
Respectfully,
j
Some of them were almost in tears when they smashed their phone and realised they'd be stuck with a crappy Android phone. Quite violent people too.
It would be funny if Apple decided to allow the apps back in tomorrow and they'd just trashed their $600 phones. Just for a few days though and then ban them again.
They revised it with one of the changes to the terms and conditions. You didn't agree to it I hope.
While I would fall more on the side of complete freedom to do anything, Apple is free to limit their products as they see fit and it creates a more secure platform. You can't put a bitcoin wallet on an XBox either, nobody is smashing them up. What you are free to do is put an encrypted wallet on a server or home computer and you can access it from your phone.
If someone decides to publish an app that maps houses suitable for burgling, should Apple just look the other way because these people are rebels and misfits? No, they are up to no good. People under 18 can pay for porn, drugs and alcohol with bitcoins. One reason credit cards exist is to verify you are over 18.
They haven't even said officially what the reason is. Their response was that there were 'unresolved issues' with the apps. That excuse is carte blanche to do whatever they feel like but it's their store.
I don't know why there can't be a webapp to do this. You can have offline database storage so surely they can store hashes or whatever else they need in an encrypted form in a webapp and have any transaction code run in Javascript.
They inappropriately quoted Apple. They aren't changing things nor are they pushing the human race forward. What they created is less than a company stock. Crypto-currency is like stock in a company without the assurance of confident earnings reports, like Amazon stock basically.
They are trading stocks in the 'company' Bitcoin but the company doesn't do anything, it doesn't make anything of tangible value to back the shares. As the confidence of investors grows, the value of each share goes up and they can split the stocks to 8 decimal places, which allows it to distribute 2.3 quadrillion shares but is only meaningful if the investors keep bumping the price up and up.
We've all seen what happens to stocks. The people in it to sell pump the stock, everything's great, buy, buy, buy. When the value is up and they can all retire, they start the sell-off for tangible assets - the paid off house(s), the big insured bank accounts, the treasury bonds, gold, silver etc.
People point to stock valuations and say that's how much the company is worth but it means that's what people trading the stock think it's worth. Their assurance of that worth is based on the company selling products or services that other people think have worth and part with their fiat currency. It's really just a big circle jerk. With Apple stock, their core value is in their products (tangible value). Bitcoin is just strings of code that have no intrinsic worth.
That doesn't make it equivalent to paper money because paper money is backed by a country's workforce and gross domestic product. If everyone chooses to be paid in bitcoins and everyone pays for everything in bitcoins in every country that can change but that's never going to happen because it's stupid to base the volatility of the trading currency of everyone alive on an algorithm completely out of the control of the people reliant on it. It's ultimately in the control of the people who make the bitcoin protocol so people just move their reliance on an elected government who are held to laws to some random unelected people held to no standards.
That system won't go away with this. Legal tender is all a government will accept for taxes. This is all a government will use to pay staff (which is a huge workforce) and it's all they will use to pay for mortgages and all the services they will use. Every home buyer in the world who has to take out a mortgage will take it from a lender that deals in fiat currency.
I don't agree with the system in place now, it has been abused but crypto-currency isn't the solution to it. Part of what makes fiat currency safe is that it is protected by the justice department and the military/police. Guess who pays them. If someone steals my money from the bank, I have support. If someone hacks my bitcoin wallet, how would I even prove it belonged to me?
Its status is the same as if I generated an image or game on my computer and sold it to you. It's just a bunch of computer data that I convince you to exchange for money. It's not legal tender but it's as valid an asset as computer software.
Temper tantrums thrown by crybabies are unimportant. What matters is what is Apple planning to release in their wallet app?
They've only had 120,000 downloads? Wow. Truly a small, chaotic, yet growing technology...in other words, perfect for Apple's innovation and UI improvements. All of the Bitcoin blockchain software I've seen so far is really terrible. I want Apple to own this space.