Google made last-ditch effort to block WhatsApp-Facebook deal, was willing to pay more than $19B

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  • Reply 61 of 168
    Here's the only point: from what I've read, their revenue (not cash flows, not profits) in 2013 were $20M. Not even close to the $460M I assumed for the sake of making a point.

    Perhaps you can explain to us how that's worth $19,000M?

    That points to only 19 million users that have used the app for more than 1 year. Or perhaps, more accurately, are using the app with the same user ID for more than a year.

    I know someone from an Asian country that used WhatsApp extensively between friends but last year they all moved to Line.



    Ignorance can be a blessing.

    Can it? My observations from internet forums would indicate that ignorance creates very angry people. Perhaps it's because they are at least aware that the rest of the world keeps pointing out their ignorance but aren't aware at why the world thinks they are so clueless or how to rectify it.
  • Reply 62 of 168

    I fear, your math is flawed here. I have been using WhatsApp for over two years (maybe a couple of times a month) and haven't paid a dime. Same goes for most of my friends. I don't think they charge everybody after a year yet. So the 20 million Dollars in revenue do not equate to the number of users.

    What I can assure you of is that I know more people in Europe who use or used to use WhatsApp compared to Facebook. Compare it to Twitter its not even a contest. The most extensive users of Twitter seem to be companies and the PR departments. Though to be fair. Those using Facebook tend to spend way more time with it than WhatsApp users. There also seems to be a fair amount of younger people moving away from WhatsApp to other services. With older people I am not so sure. And the fact that older Europeans use the service is actually a good sign because subscriptions most likely can be sold more often and with a higher price tag to them compared to teenagers who will just move on to the next best thing, once they are supposed to spend money on something.

  • Reply 63 of 168

    I found WhatsApp useful to keep in touch with my relatives. We created a group and it was very nice to have everyone being able to read everyone's messages at once.

     

    When I found out Facebook bought WhatsApp, I deleted my account, pissing off a few of the relatives who took it personally!

     

    I went through hoops to delete my Facebook account a couple of years ago. I didn't want that to happen to my WhatsApp account as well.

  • Reply 64 of 168
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post



    You can't simply reverse engineer user awareness and mindshare. They're paying for what it has, not what it is (in code and staff).

     

    What they have bought is a fickle base of reactionary nerds who dump and move onto the next anti-facebook or anti-whatever conglomerate when it swallows up their favorite SMS addiction app.

     

    If Facebook is willing to concede roughly 33% of Facebook accounts are bogus they only have roughly 833 million users, most of whom are 30+ connecting with their families and wasting time passing recipes back n' forth, coordinating with their social clubs, etc., but sure as hell aren't buying products with adverts like they want.

     

    The vast majority of this WhatsApp [pun on Wasssuppppp?] is a bunch of 20 something dweebs who treat SMS like they're going to a RAVE they heard of from the 80s/90s eras.



    WhatsApp is like Trillian for SMS, but since it's housed within a mobile OS they project asinine profit margins with Advertising.

     

    YES: Dot.com 2.0 partial bubble is going to blow a hole in a few large Social Networking companies.

     

    I've got two candidates so far:

     

    Facebook

    LinkedIn

  • Reply 65 of 168
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Yeah, it would kill Apple.

    Different scenarios. iTunes for windows happened to sell more iPods. iMessage for android does nothing for Apple's bottom line.

    Agree, In addition to helping sell iPods Apple gets revenue from iTunes purchases so a Windows version made sense. iMessage or FaceTime for Android would be an expense for Apple with zero benefit.

  • Reply 66 of 168
    Zero benefit??? What is the benefit facetime users get if it cannot even be used across platforms? I am an iPhone user, but me and most people I know use Skype instead of Facetime. Not because it is better, but because non-Apple users can communicate with it, too. A non-universal messaging or videoconferences app is a non-starter.
  • Reply 67 of 168
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Zero benefit??? What is the benefit facetime users get if it cannot even be used across platforms? I am an iPhone user, but me and most people I know use Skype instead of Facetime. Not because it is better, but because non-Apple users can communicate with it, too. A non-universal messaging or videoconferences app is a non-starter.

    Sure, there is a benefit, but you can say that about a pile of manure. What is the benefit to Facebook and Google in the realm of $16 and $19 billion considering each already have their cross-platform messaging servers?
  • Reply 68 of 168
    I foresee WhatsApp going the way of DrawSomething.
  • Reply 69 of 168

    maybe this will explain it to y'all:

    Follow the photos: The real reason Facebook just paid almost 10% of its market cap for WhatsApp | PandoDaily

    http://pando.com/2014/02/19/follow-the-photos-the-real-reason-facebook-just-paid-almost-10-of-its-market-cap-for-whatsapp/



    ps: pando.com has become a DAILY MUST READ, IMHO... just love their newly adopted

    tagline that encapsulates everything they aim to do
     (and have been doing) at Pando:

    “Speaking truth to the new power.”

    http://pando.com/2014/02/17/the-new-pando-speaking-truth-to-the-new-power/




    image

  • Reply 70 of 168

    Slightly OT, but I wish Apple would provide the ability to send SMS/ MMS to a group without me having to select each contact individually.

    I was just looking at this as an alternative to Whatsapp, but it isn't too feasible.

     

    FWIW, I did leave Feedback on the Apple website for this.

  • Reply 71 of 168
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    realistic wrote: »
    Agree, In addition to helping sell iPods Apple gets revenue from iTunes purchases so a Windows version made sense. iMessage or FaceTime for Android would be an expense for Apple with zero benefit.

    It's more like maps; Apple adds value to iOS by including a native solution (this time for efficient cross platform communication, that is a must in large parts of the world).
    The other plus is that it kills WhatsApp and makes Facebook throw away 16 billion dollar (like Google and Motorola).
  • Reply 72 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    Perhaps you can explain to us how that's worth $19,000M?


     

    I never said WhatsApp were worth the price Facebook paid.  Don't know why you assumed I thought that.

  • Reply 73 of 168
    dipdog3 wrote: »
    I agree. Apple did that with iTunes and Windows & the iPad took off!
    I don't know what is stopping them from expanding iMessage.

    FaceTime would also be great to use with other phones, but I can see where Apple would have problems getting it to work on all of the possible configurations of Android.

    What value would there be for Apple in an Android version of iMessage? This is a great feature exclusive to Apple hardware, it would be nothing but a drain on Apple's resources. At least with iTunes on Windows people occasionally buy things.

    Also, one has to wonder if WhatsApp is violating any patents that Apple or some other company may own: http://www.thefullsignal.com/apple/ios-7/14056/apple-ios-7-imessage-patent-suggests-shake
  • Reply 74 of 168
    crowley wrote: »

    I never said WhatsApp were worth the price Facebook paid.  Don't know why you assumed I thought that.

    Now you're all over the map. So, what exactly is the 'separate monetization' opportunity for FB with WA users that you referred to earlier? What is the revenue -- leave alone, cash flow -- model you had in mind?

    And, if that separate monetization were not a justification for the price paid, what exactly were you implying?
  • Reply 75 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    Didn't say "opportunity", that's your words appended to mine.

     

    WhatsApp charges $0.99 per year of use (I think).  That is the case whether their users have Facebook accounts or not.  Not sure how that makes me all over the map, it's a simple point.

  • Reply 76 of 168
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,510member
    What value would there be for Apple in an Android version of iMessage? This is a great feature exclusive to Apple hardware, it would be nothing but a drain on Apple's resources. At least with iTunes on Windows people occasionally buy things.

    Also, one has to wonder if WhatsApp is violating any patents that Apple or some other company may own: http://www.thefullsignal.com/apple/ios-7/14056/apple-ios-7-imessage-patent-suggests-shake

    Seems as tho nearly every company with a successful feature or product is accused of IP theft as some point. Apple 's iMessage has been sued over infringement of MTEL IP. (Patent 5,809,428) That's in addition to yet another VirnetX patent suit, a new one targeting iMessage.
    http://virnetx.com/virnetx-asserts-new-patent-in-apple-lawsuit/
  • Reply 77 of 168

    You even have to wonder how broadly many of these patents are granted. iMessage started two years after WhatsApp. There is no patent theft. If courts see it differently, than that is that. But a lot of these patent suits - by and against Apple are squarely aim at hindering the competition or extracting money from them - whether there truly was a patent violation or not.

  • Reply 78 of 168
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post

     

     

    I agree. Apple did that with iTunes and Windows & the iPad took off!

    I don't know what is stopping them from expanding iMessage.

    FaceTime would also be great to use with other phones, but I can see where Apple would have problems getting it to work on all of the possible configurations of Android.


    I like iMessage and use it a lot to message my family, but I can't imagine that many Android users would install it. If Apple are really serious about pushing it, then they need to make all the apps, but I think their opportunity has probably passed now.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

     

    How is this worth that kind of money, and how can Facebook not bring similar functionality for much, much, much less? 


    It makes Microsoft's purchase of Skype look really cheap in comparison and everyone thought that was expensive!

     

    It's not about the functionality though, its about the users and them actually using the service. To question value you also have to look at how much the SMS market is worth, as a strong competitor to it, that's where its potential value is going to come from.

  • Reply 79 of 168
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    What value would there be for Apple in an Android version of iMessage? This is a great feature exclusive to Apple hardware, it would be nothing but a drain on Apple's resources. At least with iTunes on Windows people occasionally buy things. ...

    See my previous post.
  • Reply 80 of 168
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    timgriff84 wrote: »
    I like iMessage and use it a lot to message my family, but I can't imagine that many Android users would install it. If Apple are really serious about pushing it, then they need to make all the apps, but I think their opportunity has probably passed now.
    ...

    No, Android users will install iMessage for the same reasons iOS users installed WhatsApp . And note that WhatsApp is currently the only cross platform solution.
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