Because you don't think the extrusion is hard you can't see how any other part of it can be difficult? I'm also pretty sure your buddy in Montana isn't doing anything close to the sophistication found on Apple's boards. Do you have any images of his boards to show us? Where is he getting his Thunderbolt 2 chis from? How many TB2 chips can he obtain at once? Did he design his own low-power, high-volume, noise-less fan?
Let's not conflate design and assembly. The design work is done. The design of the fan blade is done. The design of the Thunderbolt parts is done, and they are readily available in Macbooks. We are waiting on assembly. Is parts density on a Mac Pro circuit board so much higher than that on an iPhone that the Chinese cannot accomplish the task? I would be very surprised if the answer is yes. Owing to their precision, pick and place machines can populate very dense circuit boards. Unless the Mac Pro uses a completely different parts set for Thunderbolt, I see no evidence to suggest availability of Thunderbolt parts is an issue. Macbooks ship within 24 hours.
Your arguments relate strictly to design, not assembly. The design is done. We are waiting on assembly. Usually, when some piece of an Apple product is subject to low yield/supply problems, we see articles all over the web speculating about it. I've not seen this with any Mac Pro parts - other than possibly the CPU.
One last point, I'm not a China advocate, but if you think they are still building stuff by hand on dirt floors, brother you're in for a shock. I am inclined to suspect the difficulty in ramping Mac Pro production is evidence of this. I bet the Chinese could have produced more machines in less time.
Let's not conflate design and assembly. The design work is done. The design of the fan blade is done. The design of the Thunderbolt parts is done, and they are readily available in Macbooks. We are waiting on assembly. Is parts density on a Mac Pro circuit board so much higher than that on an iPhone that the Chinese cannot accomplish the task? I would be very surprised if the answer is yes. Owing to their precision, pick and place machines can populate very dense circuit boards. Unless the Mac Pro uses a completely different parts set for Thunderbolt, I see no evidence to suggest availability of Thunderbolt parts is an issue. Macbooks ship within 24 hours.
Your arguments relate strictly to design, not assembly. The design is done. We are waiting on assembly. Usually, when some piece of an Apple product is subject to low yield/supply problems, we see articles all over the web speculating about it. I've not seen this with any Mac Pro parts - other than possibly the CPU.
One last point, I'm not a China advocate, but if you think they are still building stuff by hand on dirt floors, brother you're in for a shock. I am inclined to suspect the difficulty in ramping Mac Pro production is evidence of this. I bet the Chinese could have produced more machines in less time.
1) MBPs don't use all the same parts as a Mac Pro.
2) you completely ignored manufacturing on your comments regarding design and assembly.
3) If had known your premise was to claim that Americans are lazy and stupid I wouldn't have engaged you.
1) MBPs don't use all the same parts as a Mac Pro.
2) you completely ignored manufacturing on your comments regarding design and assembly.
3) If had known your premise was to claim that Americans are lazy and stupid I wouldn't have engaged you.
4) Passing the baton.
1) Whether the parts are the same or different, are they available? In other words, is assembly waiting for parts, or are parts waiting to be assembled?
2) See number 1 above. If all of the parts are available, we are waiting on assembly. I find it interesting there is no buzz in the community about parts availability issues. Usually, when there are potential yield issues on parts the press is full of stories about it. Either Apple has done a spectacular job of locking down security on the Mac Pro, or parts availability is not the issue.
3) Where did I say Americans are either lazy or stupid? What I am suggesting is, the Chinese are both capable, and efficient. Plus, they are less hampered by work rules and government red tape. Those, as they say in business, are competitive advantages. I'll stick with my original assertion, I struggle to understand which bit of the Mac Pro is so hard to assemble (Not design, and not to manufacture in quantity, just to assemble). I just don't see it. What part of a Mac Pro is more complicated to assemble than something like a touch screen? Availability is being constrained either by lack of manufactured parts, or a slower assembly ramp up than I would expect from an established Asian supplier. Lacking word of parts availability issues, I'm betting on the latter.
I guess they didn't see the video that shows how automated a lot of this stuff is.
That's the only way manufacturing is coming back into the USA. It's not that Americans don't want to work. American companies don't want to pay employees, nor give them any kind of benefits. Robots it is. That's eventually how most manufacturing should be everywhere, though, realistically. Re-train the working populous to do different tasks. (Another thing American corporations don't want to do)
Funny. 30 yr ago "made in the USA" was a conservative mantra. To the extent that Bruce Springsteen did a song with that theme. To quote from the Wikipedia entry, "Even more notably, the widely read conservative columnist George Will... praised Springsteen...." I remember, back then I was both a conservative and a USA-made advocate. I'm still a USA-made advocate.
My point is: no need to politicize this, nor to cast aspersions.
Shhhhh... Such people like moving the goal posts and retconning. If they didn't re-define reality now and then, they'd have a harder time mocking lefties, liberals, hippies and other evil communist scum. How dare these socialists try to bring manufacturing and jobs back into the USA...
I'm assuming this comment is made in jest or are you having second thoughts whether the nMP meets your needs?
The nMP is freaking awesome but I could always buy another if someone wants to make me a silly offer ... everything has a price in life ... yeah just kidding ... well unless it's a very silly offer ... :smokey:
I bet the Chinese could have produced more machines in less time.
This happened with the Retina Macbook Pro too though and the iMac. I suspect it's more about resource allocation.
They'll setup resources to handle an anticipated average demand. If they put in lots of extra resources for the short peak demand then they'll be stuck with more than they need when it dies down - too many staff, too many machines. Tim Cook's expertise is in optimal supply chains and this routine has happened with a lot of products and happens with pretty much every iPhone.
It looks bad and I'm sure they'd rather avoid the short period of delays but if it wasn't a result of the way they choose to work, it simply wouldn't happen so often. The fact it happens whether products are made in China or the US suggests the location isn't the issue.
It'll be interesting to see their next quarter's Mac revenue. If they are topping 200,000 units, that'll boost their Mac revenue by at least $600m.
Their Mac revenue after 3 quarters ending December was $6.4b, the previous year was $5.5b, the previous quarter was $4.9b. The previous year was missing 700,000 iMacs so at an average $1300, that puts revenue roughly flat year over year. If the Mac Pro hasn't made much difference, it should remain flat in the second quarter at $5.4b. If there is a demand like 200k, it should push revenue up to about $6b and we'll see that in April.
This happened with the Retina Macbook Pro too though and the iMac. I suspect it's more about resource allocation.
They'll setup resources to handle an anticipated average demand. If they put in lots of extra resources for the short peak demand then they'll be stuck with more than they need when it dies down - too many staff, too many machines. Tim Cook's expertise is in optimal supply chains and this routine has happened with a lot of products and happens with pretty much every iPhone.
It looks bad and I'm sure they'd rather avoid the short period of delays but if it wasn't a result of the way they choose to work, it simply wouldn't happen so often. The fact it happens whether products are made in China or the US suggests the location isn't the issue.
It'll be interesting to see their next quarter's Mac revenue. If they are topping 200,000 units, that'll boost their Mac revenue by at least $600m.
Their Mac revenue after 3 quarters ending December was $6.4b, the previous year was $5.5b, the previous quarter was $4.9b. The previous year was missing 700,000 iMacs so at an average $1300, that puts revenue roughly flat year over year. If the Mac Pro hasn't made much difference, it should remain flat in the second quarter at $5.4b. If there is a demand like 200k, it should push revenue up to about $6b and we'll see that in April.
It is still a little exreme for 2 months shipping when we are past 2 months on sale.
Then again all Pro desktop users have likely odered it.
I wonder what happen to the haters saying you can "over clock a windows computer at 1/10 the price"?
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
Foxxtron, eh? Yeah, good old Foxxtron... :shakeshead:
Anyway, there is not a single thing that keeps any American based manufacturer from working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. More than a few do. And the last time I checked, 3rd shift employees are at work at 2AM, 3AM... right up til 7AM. Companies do all sorts of wild & crazy things these days: swing shifts, split shifts, weekend shifts. The wonders never cease.
Considering my career and position working with various Fortune 500 companies over the years, it's "interesting" to hear that due to my desire to re-source jobs back to the U.S. (when it's possible, practical and profitable) that I am now a left wing whining hippy and liberal. So much can be learned about oneself by listening to those who are full of... uh... "wisdom".
Always great to hear from people, such as yourself, who obviously have a deep knowledge of business and manufacturing.
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
I garuntee you that the apple mac pro plant is online 24/7. Just because it is built here does not mean they don't run 24/7. You ever heard of 3 shifts 8 hours a piece? We work them at my work. Theres a day shift, afternoon shift and a graveyard shift. Don't know where you live in america but where I live, we work 24/7.
3) Where did I say Americans are either lazy or stupid? What I am suggesting is, the Chinese are both capable, and efficient. Plus, they are less hampered by work rules and government red tape. Those, as they say in business, are competitive advantages. I'll stick with my original assertion, I struggle to understand which bit of the Mac Pro is so hard to assemble (Not design, and not to manufacture in quantity, just to assemble). I just don't see it. What part of a Mac Pro is more complicated to assemble than something like a touch screen? Availability is being constrained either by lack of manufactured parts, or a slower assembly ramp up than I would expect from an established Asian supplier. Lacking word of parts availability issues, I'm betting on the latter.
This seems like a weird assertion. Since we are both guessing, my guess is that the facility is not designed around this level of continuous demand. Demand is likely higher right now due to the very long refresh cycle. They refreshed in 2010 with only a moderate change to the base model, which must carry a significant portion of the volume. The refresh in 2012 didn't change much. A couple parts changed to different component numbers. The mac pro was not available in Europe for some time during 2013. Combining all of this, there may have been significant pent up demand. It does not mean they anticipate it to be that way all the time, and they probably did not structure capacity around that.
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
I know you don't have the information to pass that judgement Mr. Troll. You even conveniently ignore the number of businesses in the US that do run 24/7. They merely run second and sometimes third shift crews.
My 12-core MP6,1 is on time. Ordered Dec 21st 2013 and will be ready for me to pickup at my local Apple Store (more secure this way) Mar 6th or earlier. It's status is preparing for shipment and my CC has been invoiced. Just in time for big project that needs more computing horsepower.
I will be connecting 2x 4TB RAID-0 LaCie 2bigs to it as well as a 20TB 5-bay MacGurus eSATA Port Multiplier. I will also trade in the stock Apple 16GB RAM to OWC for around $112 and buy the OWC's 4x 16GB RAM module to max the MP6,1 out to have 64 GB RAM.
This MP6,1 is a shared resource for my son and I. Son has video/editing business and I have consulting work for fluid dynamics simulation that needs 4GB RAM per core.
This MP6,1 could not have come sooner for us.
We had originally ordered an 8-core but son convinced me to go for the 12-core and since we share the cost it wasn't too bad a deal.
Son has 4 aging Nehalem MacPros and two souped up iMacs, so I suspect this new MP6,1 will be the envy in his office. I will be using LogMeIn or maybe TeamViewer to access this Bestie for mu consulting work.
The rep was demoing it to a prospective customer. As they were hammering the machine, I placed my hand over the vent and could barely register any heat from the thing. That's some impressive cooling going on in there.
Happy for you. You're gonna so much appreciate this machine. I don't need it, my 5.1 still runs fine.
Will you take it to your office when needed, or are going to work on it in his office? It's such a portable device if you have all the peripherals elsewhere as well.
3 th March is my delivery date so very excited I got the 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 16GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC - 4X4GB 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage Dual AMD FirePro D300-2GB VRAM
My nMP ordered 19 December at 1:20PM PDT finally arrived yesterday (February 24). It was a long wait and I'm glad it's over. It's really an impressive machine and replaced a MP 1.1 from 2006.
Comments
Because you don't think the extrusion is hard you can't see how any other part of it can be difficult? I'm also pretty sure your buddy in Montana isn't doing anything close to the sophistication found on Apple's boards. Do you have any images of his boards to show us? Where is he getting his Thunderbolt 2 chis from? How many TB2 chips can he obtain at once? Did he design his own low-power, high-volume, noise-less fan?
Let's not conflate design and assembly. The design work is done. The design of the fan blade is done. The design of the Thunderbolt parts is done, and they are readily available in Macbooks. We are waiting on assembly. Is parts density on a Mac Pro circuit board so much higher than that on an iPhone that the Chinese cannot accomplish the task? I would be very surprised if the answer is yes. Owing to their precision, pick and place machines can populate very dense circuit boards. Unless the Mac Pro uses a completely different parts set for Thunderbolt, I see no evidence to suggest availability of Thunderbolt parts is an issue. Macbooks ship within 24 hours.
Your arguments relate strictly to design, not assembly. The design is done. We are waiting on assembly. Usually, when some piece of an Apple product is subject to low yield/supply problems, we see articles all over the web speculating about it. I've not seen this with any Mac Pro parts - other than possibly the CPU.
One last point, I'm not a China advocate, but if you think they are still building stuff by hand on dirt floors, brother you're in for a shock. I am inclined to suspect the difficulty in ramping Mac Pro production is evidence of this. I bet the Chinese could have produced more machines in less time.
1) MBPs don't use all the same parts as a Mac Pro.
2) you completely ignored manufacturing on your comments regarding design and assembly.
3) If had known your premise was to claim that Americans are lazy and stupid I wouldn't have engaged you.
4) Passing the baton.
1) MBPs don't use all the same parts as a Mac Pro.
2) you completely ignored manufacturing on your comments regarding design and assembly.
3) If had known your premise was to claim that Americans are lazy and stupid I wouldn't have engaged you.
4) Passing the baton.
1) Whether the parts are the same or different, are they available? In other words, is assembly waiting for parts, or are parts waiting to be assembled?
2) See number 1 above. If all of the parts are available, we are waiting on assembly. I find it interesting there is no buzz in the community about parts availability issues. Usually, when there are potential yield issues on parts the press is full of stories about it. Either Apple has done a spectacular job of locking down security on the Mac Pro, or parts availability is not the issue.
3) Where did I say Americans are either lazy or stupid? What I am suggesting is, the Chinese are both capable, and efficient. Plus, they are less hampered by work rules and government red tape. Those, as they say in business, are competitive advantages. I'll stick with my original assertion, I struggle to understand which bit of the Mac Pro is so hard to assemble (Not design, and not to manufacture in quantity, just to assemble). I just don't see it. What part of a Mac Pro is more complicated to assemble than something like a touch screen? Availability is being constrained either by lack of manufactured parts, or a slower assembly ramp up than I would expect from an established Asian supplier. Lacking word of parts availability issues, I'm betting on the latter.
That's the only way manufacturing is coming back into the USA. It's not that Americans don't want to work. American companies don't want to pay employees, nor give them any kind of benefits. Robots it is. That's eventually how most manufacturing should be everywhere, though, realistically. Re-train the working populous to do different tasks. (Another thing American corporations don't want to do)
Shhhhh... Such people like moving the goal posts and retconning. If they didn't re-define reality now and then, they'd have a harder time mocking lefties, liberals, hippies and other evil communist scum. How dare these socialists try to bring manufacturing and jobs back into the USA...
The nMP is freaking awesome but I could always buy another if someone wants to make me a silly offer ... everything has a price in life
This happened with the Retina Macbook Pro too though and the iMac. I suspect it's more about resource allocation.
They'll setup resources to handle an anticipated average demand. If they put in lots of extra resources for the short peak demand then they'll be stuck with more than they need when it dies down - too many staff, too many machines. Tim Cook's expertise is in optimal supply chains and this routine has happened with a lot of products and happens with pretty much every iPhone.
It looks bad and I'm sure they'd rather avoid the short period of delays but if it wasn't a result of the way they choose to work, it simply wouldn't happen so often. The fact it happens whether products are made in China or the US suggests the location isn't the issue.
It'll be interesting to see their next quarter's Mac revenue. If they are topping 200,000 units, that'll boost their Mac revenue by at least $600m.
Their Mac revenue after 3 quarters ending December was $6.4b, the previous year was $5.5b, the previous quarter was $4.9b. The previous year was missing 700,000 iMacs so at an average $1300, that puts revenue roughly flat year over year. If the Mac Pro hasn't made much difference, it should remain flat in the second quarter at $5.4b. If there is a demand like 200k, it should push revenue up to about $6b and we'll see that in April.
It is still a little exreme for 2 months shipping when we are past 2 months on sale.
Then again all Pro desktop users have likely odered it.
I wonder what happen to the haters saying you can "over clock a windows computer at 1/10 the price"?
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
Foxxtron, eh? Yeah, good old Foxxtron... :shakeshead:
Anyway, there is not a single thing that keeps any American based manufacturer from working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. More than a few do. And the last time I checked, 3rd shift employees are at work at 2AM, 3AM... right up til 7AM. Companies do all sorts of wild & crazy things these days: swing shifts, split shifts, weekend shifts. The wonders never cease.
Considering my career and position working with various Fortune 500 companies over the years, it's "interesting" to hear that due to my desire to re-source jobs back to the U.S. (when it's possible, practical and profitable) that I am now a left wing whining hippy and liberal. So much can be learned about oneself by listening to those who are full of... uh... "wisdom".
Always great to hear from people, such as yourself, who obviously have a deep knowledge of business and manufacturing.
Lord, just take me now!
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
I garuntee you that the apple mac pro plant is online 24/7. Just because it is built here does not mean they don't run 24/7. You ever heard of 3 shifts 8 hours a piece? We work them at my work. Theres a day shift, afternoon shift and a graveyard shift. Don't know where you live in america but where I live, we work 24/7.
3) Where did I say Americans are either lazy or stupid? What I am suggesting is, the Chinese are both capable, and efficient. Plus, they are less hampered by work rules and government red tape. Those, as they say in business, are competitive advantages. I'll stick with my original assertion, I struggle to understand which bit of the Mac Pro is so hard to assemble (Not design, and not to manufacture in quantity, just to assemble). I just don't see it. What part of a Mac Pro is more complicated to assemble than something like a touch screen? Availability is being constrained either by lack of manufactured parts, or a slower assembly ramp up than I would expect from an established Asian supplier. Lacking word of parts availability issues, I'm betting on the latter.
This seems like a weird assertion. Since we are both guessing, my guess is that the facility is not designed around this level of continuous demand. Demand is likely higher right now due to the very long refresh cycle. They refreshed in 2010 with only a moderate change to the base model, which must carry a significant portion of the volume. The refresh in 2012 didn't change much. A couple parts changed to different component numbers. The mac pro was not available in Europe for some time during 2013. Combining all of this, there may have been significant pent up demand. It does not mean they anticipate it to be that way all the time, and they probably did not structure capacity around that.
I agree with Scotty321. There is a reason we let things be built in China, obviously for the cost, but because they are hard at work all the damn time.
Hell, foxxtron works 24/7. But god forbid we made people work at 2am, there would be lawsuits up the ass for Apple for workers comp and people whining.
Just saying, us american's are spoiled. And honestly, a Mac Pro built in America is the same as a Mac Pro built in China. It's only due to left wing whining hippies and liberals that Apple has a due diligence to build things in the USA.
I know you don't have the information to pass that judgement Mr. Troll. You even conveniently ignore the number of businesses in the US that do run 24/7. They merely run second and sometimes third shift crews.
Look a shiny red ball.
Go fetch boy!
I will be connecting 2x 4TB RAID-0 LaCie 2bigs to it as well as a 20TB 5-bay MacGurus eSATA Port Multiplier. I will also trade in the stock Apple 16GB RAM to OWC for around $112 and buy the OWC's 4x 16GB RAM module to max the MP6,1 out to have 64 GB RAM.
This MP6,1 is a shared resource for my son and I. Son has video/editing business and I have consulting work for fluid dynamics simulation that needs 4GB RAM per core.
This MP6,1 could not have come sooner for us.
We had originally ordered an 8-core but son convinced me to go for the 12-core and since we share the cost it wasn't too bad a deal.
Son has 4 aging Nehalem MacPros and two souped up iMacs, so I suspect this new MP6,1 will be the envy in his office. I will be using LogMeIn or maybe TeamViewer to access this Bestie for mu consulting work.
It's a freezer-burn compared to cool!
Happy for you. You're gonna so much appreciate this machine. I don't need it, my 5.1 still runs fine.
Will you take it to your office when needed, or are going to work on it in his office? It's such a portable device if you have all the peripherals elsewhere as well.
March is almost here... shipping still says April. Maybe they are catching up?
My order got in just before the delivery slipped to March (at least my shop thinks so) so I could get mine any day now.
Fingers crossed!
Oooh that must be a frustrating experience. Virtual crossed fingers from me to you.
Oooh that must be a frustrating experience. Virtual crossed fingers from me to you.
I knew I was cutting it close, so I'm not too frustrated.
Have tons of projects ready to render on it; it will be working 24/7 for a good while!
That's great: you've prepared stuff for it to work on. Cool, you'll be rewarded.
I got the 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
16GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC - 4X4GB
512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
Dual AMD FirePro D300-2GB VRAM
My nMP ordered 19 December at 1:20PM PDT finally arrived yesterday (February 24). It was a long wait and I'm glad it's over. It's really an impressive machine and replaced a MP 1.1 from 2006.